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Around SBN: Auto Racer Jeffrey Earnhardt Excited to Make MMA Debut

It seems like a slap in the face from my POV. I suppose this is one step in the negotiating process... but I'm looking forward to Victor finding a team that will appreciate what he brings to his team (on the field and in the locker room).

over 1 year ago Spideypic_tiny Spidey 33 comments 0 recs  | 

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A two-year deal is appropriate for Victor, and a three-year deal is about the most you could offer. He’s a catcher, and not the most skilled one in the world. Catchers often fall off quickly in terms of both health and performance, so there’s that. In addition, it’s not clear how long he’ll actually be a catcher, and if the only other position he can play is 1B, that substantially diminishes his value. If you believe the Fangraphs formulas, it makes him 16M less valuable each season. That is a stretch, of course, but the real number is probably north of $8 million.

by Jay on Sep 9, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Not a slap in the face, just an opening offer. Obviously the agent leaked it in hopes that the Red Sox fans/writers will put pressure on the FO to re-sign him.

So, Victor can choose between a 2-3 year deal on a quality franchise .. or he can pick a 4-5 year with a bad franchise.

by Toxicadam on Sep 9, 2010 11:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Fangraph did a Contract Crowdsourcing—I assume this is something they do, but it’s new to me—and the median guesstimate is 4 years/$12 per. It sounds right to me. Someone’s going to overpay, and it’ll be in the form of years.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 10, 2010 12:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I should elaborate a little. 3 years is what a catcher his age should get. Which means to get him, a team will have to trump someone else’s offer with an extra year.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 10, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. I would have expected his value to be higher. Given his ability to play 1B and C reasonably well, I would have put it at 3 years/$13M. Sure, he is not the ideal player for either position, if you look only at the numbers. But I know I would get my money’s worth from him in one way or another. And it doesn’t hurt to have a decent veteran on a team.

For the Red Sox, I’m surprised they will take the chance of seeing him leave over a couple million dollars- especially when you look at the offensive challenges they are going to face.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin

by Spidey on Sep 10, 2010 9:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I would have expected his value to be higher. Given his ability to play 1B and C reasonably well, I would have put it at 3 years/$13M.

The crowdsourcing guess is significantly larger than your guess, unless you mean $13 million per year.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 10, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doh! I read it wrong. Yeah, crowdsourcing is in-line. Thanks for clarifying that.

I still think the Red Sox are nickel and diming him. They are getting a reputation as being jagoffs, given the Jason Bay and Johnny Damon negotiations.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin

by Spidey on Sep 10, 2010 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not to defend the Bosox, but isn’t the jagoff here the agent who goes public with the offer?

by odradek on Sep 10, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. Though you could argue it’s all just part of the game, negotiating through the media is not really negotiating in good faith. It is intentionally inflicting damage on the other party, such that it becomes a better deal for them to repair the damage.

by Jay on Sep 10, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Going public wasn’t cool. On the other hand, the agent knows how the Sox treated some of the previous free agents and he’s basically telling the Sox he won’t be negotiating with them. And again, a 2-year offer is a very low-ball offer when it’s quite clear Victor requires at least 3 years. Heck, if he would have taken 2 years he probably would have stayed in Cleveland…

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin

by Spidey on Sep 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Exqueeze me?

In both the Bay and Damon negotiations, they were giving reasonable and even slightly generous offers based on the player’s real value to the club. If you want to blame a club for letting a player get away, it’s going to have to be in a situation where someone other than the Yankees or Mets ended up with the guy.

by Jay on Sep 10, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

cross-posting my comment at Fangraphs

I wonder what the real positional adjustment is on Victor Martinez. The basic WAR adjustment is 25 runs between catcher and first base, but here’s a guy who’s considered a mediocre defender at catcher and potentially a plus-defender at first base. Is it outrageous to think that given a full-time switch to first base, the swing in marginal defensive ability might be as much as 10 runs? (For example, maybe he’s a -6 at catcher and a +4 at first base.)

So now we’re down to a 15-run difference (assuming equally valuable replacements are available to a given team at those two positions). Next question, is outrageous to think Martinez might outperform the 15-run difference as a full-time first baseman, relieved of the physical grind of being a catcher?

Before you answer, keep in mind that when healthy, the guy consistently has rattled off 20- to 25-run seasons as a pure hitter. That means that four months on the DL equates to 15 runs. I’m not saying the position switch is worth four months on the DL per year — of course it isn’t — but I am saying that the decreased injury risk alone gets you perhaps another 5 runs closer.

So now we’re down to less than one marginal win of difference, offset by some hypothetical improvement in pure performance. Depending on what you think of that hypothetical, playing Martinez at first base rather than catcher is at least a reasonable option on the one hand, and arguably a trivial sacrifice on the other.

by Jay on Sep 10, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Don’t you have to hedge all that against his age? The chances for pure performance to increase diminishes each year after 30 and the chances for injury ratchets up. Especially for a guy that spent most of his career behind the dish.

by Toxicadam on Sep 10, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I see it, the age factor increases both (a) the delta between his hitting performance going forward as 1B vs. C, and (b) the delta between his injury risk (or projected DL days if you prefer) as a 1B vs. C. So the age factor makes him an even more reasonable option as a first baseman.

Bottom line, I think it makes sense to value him contractually as a very good (but not great) all-around first baseman (and as an awesome dude if you’re into that kind of thing), because realistically, he shouldn’t be valued much more highly than that if he’s a catcher.

by Jay on Sep 10, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

This might be the best argument yet for getting Santana out from behind the plate.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 10, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where’s Toregas?!? Or more seriously, why investing time in developing Marson is a really good idea.

by APV on Sep 10, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll remind everyone that the consensus projections for Marson had him right around .270/.350/.365. Coupled with good defense, I think that pretty much makes him a league average or better catcher. He dramatically underperformed relative to his talent this year and I’d pick him as a strong bounce-back guy going into next season.

by APV on Sep 10, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remain skeptical, I just don’t see the promise in the bat.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 10, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you didn’t see that mammouth grand slam the other day, huh?

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 10, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I missed it, but saw Jay’s recap.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 10, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s hard to do justice the jaw-dropping majesty of a Marson slam.

by Jay on Sep 10, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not that his bat will be a positive, it is that it shouldn’t be such a strong negative, if a negative at all

by APV on Sep 10, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think his bat will eventually be a positive, at least in terms of OBP.

by odradek on Sep 10, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think his bat could be a positive if someone else is swinging it.

by Brad D on Sep 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’ll teach ya to be positive about anything there Oddie.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 14, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

A positive relative to league average, or just relative to position?

by Jay on Sep 14, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

.350+ OBP is positive to league, not just catchers, no?

by odradek on Sep 15, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. .328 for the AL this season, .336 in both 08 and 09.

We could ask other questions … average for a starter, average for a starter on a team that doesn’t suck … but that would lead to still other questions.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’ve got to pay him like a catcher if you’re gonna play him as a catcher. This year he’s played 95 out of 107 games behind the dish. Red Sox aren’t dumb enough to make anything less than market value. My guess is 3 years/42 million with an option for 4 based upon the number of games played.

Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder

by jerseywahoo on Sep 10, 2010 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW, Jhonny is the #9 comparison for him on b ref.

Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder

by jerseywahoo on Sep 10, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes we do.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Sep 12, 2010 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

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