Sizemore Deal Official
$5M base, up to $4M in incentives which, incidentally, would take him to what his declined 2012 option was worth.
6 months ago
afh4
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So if he’s healthy he makes what he’d have made if we picked up the option, roughly. Really happy he’s coming back for one more year in the sun.
by Brick. on Nov 23, 2011 4:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Nothing really interesting on the 92.3 interview. But he didn’t really get asked any good questions. He did do a conference call with reporters before that though and I imagine Hoynsie and Bastian, etc. will have updated stories with quotes sometime tonight.
He did say that he wasn’t ready to leave here, it didn’t feel right going elsewhere, this is home to him. But he’s a boring interview all the time. Only fun radio interview he’s ever done was on a Miami radio station back in 2007. They asked him about Kaz Tadano, it was funny.
Yeah, it’s obvious he isn’t very fond of interviews. Might have to do with getting asked the same boring questions 47 times by the beat writers. The magazine interviews of his are better.
This is the most personality he’s ever let show in a radio interview: LISTEN
Thanks for the link. Some odd questions of course but Grady showed a wee bit of personality. I question a couple responses, especially his A-Rod one but he’s being diplomatic.
Well remember that interview is from July of 2007. IIRC ARod was en fuego in the first half of ’07.
by cozmeesah on Nov 24, 2011 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well remember that interview is from July of 2007. IIRC ARod was en fuego in the first half of ’07.
by cozmeesah on Nov 24, 2011 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sizemore, on re-signing with the Indians: “I’ve never really pictured myself playing anywhere else. It’s hard to let that go right now.”
Twitterbastian
Meh. This is more of a sentimental fan signing than the Lofton contract. Lots of retrospective analysis here looking at Sizemore’s previous stats and durability and little else.
Here’s the way I look at it: the best predictor of future knee surgery is previous knee surgery. Sizemore’s chances of making it through half a season without a significant knee problem robbbing him of a major portion of his value to us is less than 25%. How this $5M signing address our need for another corner outfielder eludes me.
Our best players wear suits.
Well I hope it isn’t being construed as the solution for “corner outfielder” need and much more about raising the ceiling on what we get out of Grady Sizemore/Michael Brantley/? center field position next season. LF remains a problem, as does 1B.
I think he means even more sentimental that trading for Lofton in ’07?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
If he hits 30 HRs he’s gonna cost us $9m. If he tears up a knee in ST and doesn’t play one game he’s gonna cost us $5M.
Here’s my point: you’re gambling ~8% of our payroll on an almost surefire loser. There’s gotta be better options for this money.
And anybody that thinks our crack medical staff is one of the best in all of baseball should look back on this signing – and the mishandling of Hafner and Miller etal – and recalibrate.
Our best players wear suits.
I don’t think you answered Jay’s question…
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 25, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Of course he didn’t.
So I’ll ask again:
Is there some other outfielder with 30 HR power available for $5 million or anything close to that?
Is there in fact any guy with 30 HR potential who won’t command a $50 million deal?
If we shouldn’t be doing multi-year deals for over $10 million per, a position staked out long ago by mauichuck, then isn’t this the kind of deal that we should be doing? What else is there?
Let’s take that $9M that Grady might earn. Offer $5M to Coco Crisp on a one-year deal. Then use the other three million to teach him how to steal first base?
The fact that Crisp might require a $5 million deal is the best argument for giving Grady this contract.
Crisp has averaged 87 games played over the last three seasons, although he was healthiest in 2011. But the main point is that he hasn’t missed time on Chuck’s team, so he doesn’t get the full-on scorn-and-disbelief treatment.
I still think Crisp has 10 HR potential, by the way, even though he hasn’t reached that level in seven years.
My point was this: you can’t call him a “$5M guy with 30 HR power” cuz if he hit 30 HRs he’d be a “$9M” guy. Plus Grady will be lucky to hit 20 HRs, since since it’s unlikely he’ll play 100 games next year.
Another dumb-ass signing that waste valuable payroll and doesn’t address any on-the-field needs. Might sell a few tickets but won’t budge our W/L record one iota next year.
Our best players wear suits.
So if he hits 20 HRs he’s worth how much? And who is available right now at that price? Jason Kubel? No thanks.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
You’ve biased the question to prove a point. How about this: if he injures himself in ST training and never plays again, how much is he worth?
The real question is this: is it worth the $5M gamble that he might – just might – be a replacement level player? I say no, no he’s not. You’re betting that he’ll be worth that money plus. It’s a sucker’s bet in my opinion.
Our best players wear suits.
It’s understood that each contract is a reflection of the market, and the market considers a range of possible outcomes.
Grady missed 50+ games in 2009 but was still worth over $10 million that season. Grady missed more than half of 2011 but was still not far away from justifying a $5 million salary.
But here’s the truly salient math. An average major leaguer is worth more than $5 million as a free agent, and an average major leaguer will get far more than one year guaranteed.
This contract represents a small concession on projected quality of play — a $5 million guarantee rather than $9 million. The concession on health isn’t in the salary, it’s in the years — one year instead of five or six.
Potential to be a great deal, but very very likely to be just be setting $5 million on fire. Is this a terrible deal? No, but a Melky Cabrera-like signing (young guy with no injury history and major-league success) is better. Was Jimenez a terrible trade? Possibly, but possibly not – either way, the Doug Fister deal got Detroit more and saw them giving up a whole lot less. The Indians are a little sloppy with their player acquisition, and as you’ve argued for years, we have to be no-doubt-about-it the best in the Bigs if we want a consistently good team.
The contract is a $5 million risk — worst case scenario — on a player with legit 30 HR upside — career high 33, I believe. If he hits the 30 HR and gets the $9 million, then there won’t be anything to complain about, so why whine about that part?
I will rephrase to accommodate your fragile interpretive abilities.
What other outfielder can be signed for $5 million guaranteed — or even $50 million guaranteed — with legit 30 HR potential?
I think you’re overestimating how much $5M buys you on the open market. And go ahead and suggest that “better option for this money.”
John McDonald just got $3M. Rod Barajas just got $4M. Mark Ellis just got $4.4M x 2. Aaron Hill just got 5.5M x 2.
And if Grady earns anywhere close to $9M next year, something has gone right and the gamble will have turned out to be a winner.
You’re assuming that the $5M is a stand-alone number. That’s a substantial part of our total pool or resources which we no longer have available to sign another player who can actually play. You guys are always talking about “sunk cost”. Well here’s another “sunk cost” that – just like the Hafner contract – are no longer available to sign draft choices, renegotiate current player contracts etc.
Here’s a hypothetical for you: what if we could add two years of Choo if we could bump his contract by $3M a year but couldn’t do it cuz we spent it on having “the face of the franchise” riding the pine for 2012?
Our best players wear suits.
Sunk cost? Hafner became unmovable for 3 years after the injury bug. If Grady turns or begins to turn a corner by mid-season and we are out of it, he turns into what might be a decent return of prospects in the event that we are no longer in contention. And if we are in contention? I doubt we’ll be arguing about sunk costs.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
There’s the bottom line: I’m confident – confident – that Sizemore’s done as a major league level impact player. You’re not. We’ll see.
Our best players wear suits.
But your words don’t express confidence — confidence — that Sizemore is merely done as an impact player. Your words express confidence — confidence — that he’s done even as an average player.
Here’s what I’m confident – confident – of: Grady Sizemore’s knees – that would be both knees – are shot – shot. If he can play baseball on one shot knee, let alone two, it’ll be a miracle. I don’t like betting on miracles
Our best players wear suits.
This is a fabricated concern. Not having access to Cleveland’s books or ownership, I can say with 100 percent certainty that a $5M one-year contract for any player would not prohibit the an additional $3M allocation for a long term contract for a worthwhile player. The Dolans have always approved these contracts on a case-by-case basis.
Going 3 years, $24M on Willingham or 3 years, $30M on Cuddyer would prohibit the payroll this year and the next few..
There is no guaranteed impact player available for $5M on a one-year deal. You’re asking for certainty in an uncertain market. Hell, there is no guaranteed impact player available for $20.2M per year; ask the Red Sox what impact Carl Crawford had.
Again you’re biasing facts to fit your argument. I’m not suggesting that there’s an “impact player” out there for $5M or even $9M. I’m saying that this is a waste of money. And in the Great Scheme of Things $5M shouldn’t be a crippling expense. But we have to be smarter than just about every other franchise to reach our goal of a World Series Championship. You keep making mistakes like this plus some other dumb moves we’ve made and pretty soon you’re hamstrung.
Franchises like the Indians don’t fail from just one catastrophic mistake – although the Hafner contract comes close – it’s the compiliation of dumb ass moves like this one that’ll mire us in mediocrity.
Our best players wear suits.
“It’s only a problem if there’s a solution.”
You said we’ve done nothing about our outfield problems. What other move is within our means, which you keenly understand as very limited?
So you’re solution to our corner outfield needs is to throw $5m at a guy who probable won’t play half a season? I guess that’s a solution – for half of 2012. Maybe they’ll play a split season like down in AA – there’s always that possibility.
Our best players wear suits.
Are you completely incapable of answering Jay’s question? Every time he’s asked you “give me this another option that is within our means” you totally ignore it and turn it around.
Well here ya go. I’d rather depend on Shelly Duncan playing LF than Sizemore . He won’t bump the payroll and he might actually be available in August How’s that?
Our best players wear suits.
And he also will not give you league average production. That’s not really any kind of solution, it’s just saying you don’t think there’s a problem.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 26, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
How was Hafner mishandled by the medical staff?
How was Miller mishandled by the medical staff?
There used to be at least a little substance behind your crankiness.
Miller’s easy. Whoever thought to suture Miller’s open wound needs to sued for malpractice. The complications to Miller’s original injury were completely avoidable. That’s a single point failure.
Hafner is more complicated. The arc of his injury history is more complicated but it’s clear that surgery was needed long before it was performed. There’s at least a season of non-production – at the cost of $15M – that could have been avoided with proper medical care.
Our best players wear suits.
It is a little foolish to talk about mishandling of a medical condition without all the information in front of you, no?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Oh no doubt. But then again we rarely have all the information on any of this – what with HIPPA and the inherent secrecy of the Indian’s organization. But even given those limitations it’s clear to me that the initiating event in complicating Miller’s injury was the wound closure. I’m sure they had their reason’s for performing that and they evaluated the possible consiquences but it’s also clear that the potential rewards were outstripped by the low-probability risk of catostophic consequences.
And I’m also confident that if they had it to do over again the Indian’s medical staff would have opted for surgical repair sooner than they did. In fact they may have strongly recommended surgery but Hafner resisted. May have. But my money’s on them waitiing too long.
Our best players wear suits.
Miller returned to the club voluntarily as a minor league free agent at least once. Evidently, nobody in the industry told him that the Indians medical staff had failed him completely, including his own agent.
Oh if I were a player the first guy I’d consult for medical advise would be my agent, or failing that someone in the baseball “industry”.
Our best players wear suits.
The point, obtuse one, is that both he and his agent would have plenty of motivation and opportunity to seek out opinions on the subject.
Oh I get that, oh Font of All Wisdom, I’m saying if Adam Miller based his decision to sign an Indian’s minor league deal on what his agent told him about the quality of the Indian’s medical department, then he’s even dumber than Antonetti.
Our best players wear suits.
Ah, yes. Perfect, Antonetti the moron. What a perfect way to sum up this asinine rant.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Nov 26, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Off topic, but in the interest of masochism, the ’97 World Series is currently on the MLB channel.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Nov 26, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions
My first real heartbreak. Still hurts worse than all the women combined.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Nov 26, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ugh. The error by Fernandez was even worse than I remembered.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Nov 26, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
It’s actually outstanding, especially during the off-season. Also, every now and then you get a nice surprise, like seeing the ’81 All-Star game in Cleveland, played right after the strike. I was there, but had never seen it on television.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Nov 26, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Without delving deep into Chuck’s argument, or re-stating my own…I find it hard to ever (almost) get upset about a 1-year deal.
What’s funny is how god awful he was in those 3-4 starts or so and so above average otherwise.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 27, 2011 5:04 AM EST up reply actions
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