Latos to Reds for Alonso, Volquez, more
Reds trade Yonder Alonso, Edinson Volquez, minor league reliever Brad Boxberger and minor league catcher Yasmani Grandal for Padres ace Mat Latos.
5 months ago
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It will be interesting to see what the Padres do with Alonso. If he can’t play in that big outfield than they probably have two starting 1B. I like it for both teams, though.
I was actually thinking Rizzo, but I admittedly forgot about Blanks. I’m not sure Alonso is better than either of those guys. And they still have Guzman, right? Now I’m confused. Padres have some things to play with. I guess figure out which two of those guys to play at first and which two to play in left?
Blanks can play LF as well as he can play 1B, as opposed to Rizzo and Alonso, who aren’t even in the neighborhood of a LF, I think.
Guzman’s weird. Either they’ve found the next Nelson Cruz or they can just go ahead and DFA him. HIlarious to think he once played SS.
You know, I had this weird thought the other day that maybe getting Cunningham was basically an “opening the communication line” kind of deal. It doesn’t make any sense, but maybe there’s some comfort level established after what was basically a nothing for nothing deal.
Wouldn’t SD be selling low on Rizzo? I know its only 153 PA but it was a really bad 153 appearances…
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 17, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this might just be a waterfall. Perhaps getting Cunningham off their 40 was important for the Alonso/Grandal trade. That’s pretty baseless speculation (and I haven’t bothered to look at their 40) but it’s possible.
Rizzo’s price would probably be steep, but I like him a lot more than Brooks Conrad.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Dec 17, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
No kidding. His name sounds like a bookie.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Dec 17, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
BP’s 2010 comment on Guzman is pretty funny for its mention of Garko (who, stunningly, got waived from a Korean team).
An A’s reject who’s slowly worked his way down the defensive spectrum from shortstop towards first base, the Venezuelan Guzman remains what he’s been, an aggressive contact hitter with some pop, which really doesn’t play that well at first base, but certainly as well as some. If Garko was red-flavored $3 Chuck, Guzman’s flavor was purple, and weak proof for witnesses’s benefit that Brian Sabean’s picky when it comes to his ripple.
And that’s a huge deal for Padres, but Reds were dealing from a position of depth and a win-now attitude. They don’t really have a need for Alonso or Grandal.
I don’t really dig it for SD unless Latos is broken or they have a reason to think he’s about to be. Alonso hasn’t exactly been a minor league masher and that park is only going to make it worse.
Yeah, I did the same thing before I looked him up after hearing about the trade. He was a nice asset for the Reds, having Mesoraco.
Yeah, I guess I had really pumped up Mesoraco and forgotten they drafted Grandal high as well.
Seems like it’s basically Alonso and Grandal. Volquez feels like a lottery ticket at best—he was never all that good and there are lots of reasons to think he’s not going to be good going forward. Maybe he can get away with all those BB’s in that park.
And Latos is under club-control for four more years and not even arb-eligible. Makes you think why SD would be shopping him (unless, as you said, they think something is wrong with him).
Sort of odd players to rebuild with. Would’ve just foregone Volquez for another couple of prospects. I guess someone has to take the ball, though.
Wasn’t he poison in Cincy? Maybe they got Grandal and Alonso by also taking him. And after looking at the 2011 Padres I think any warm body helps their rebuild.
Volquez has fast start and they flip him?
by stuart dean on Dec 18, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
The idea being that Asdrubal plays 2B for the Marlins?
I’d consider it but probably wouldn’t pull the trigger. Almost seems like a parallel move for us.
Plus Hanley’s Hefty contract + declining performance + bad defense
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 17, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I thought about this as well.
The exact problem is that we need to be going in the opposite direction. We should be looking at trading Kipnis for a premium defensive shortstop, slide over Asdrubal, thus upgrading two key defensive positions in one move.
Always thought Droobs’ best position was 2B. And I definitely like the creative trade ideas involving “untradeables”.
But I don’t think the middle infield is the part of the club that needs upgrading. Any trade of mainstays has to involve 1B/OF.
I consider Santana good trade bait for the right deal, and would be willing to trade almost anyone on the team except Masterson and Droobs. Masterson because we can’t do better as a staff anchor right now, and Droobs because he really is the heart of the current Tribe.
First, I don’t agree that the middle infield doesn’t need upgrading. That is, obviously both guys are great players, but shifting around our assets a little to end up with better infield defense would be a shrewd move.
Second, it isn’t necessarily all in one move. Trading Kipnis could be part of a move to upgrade the offense, and acquiring a plus defender at shortstop need not be that costly.
This plays in to the whole disconnect between accumulating worm-burner pitchers and marginal range IF’s…
by stuart dean on Dec 18, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
For that matter, putting Donald at 2B and Kipnis in LF upgrades infield defense and corner outfield production without trading anybody.
Agreed – that would be shifting around our assets in a way that instantly improves the starting lineup. And – I think Asdrubal’s defensive woes are overstated.
Purely based on sales, there is a 90% chance that you own at least two NIckelback albums.
Asdrubal’s defensive shortcomings always seem to stem from his poor showing under UZR. His 2011 UZR has him as the worst SS in all of MLB. Johnny Peralta is ranked as the fourth best. I’m curious to know what scouts think of both players, but I think these UZR ratings seem opposite of what fans who watch 150 games per year would say.
Fans’ Scouting Reports gives the AL Central shortstops the following average ratings:
79 Escobar, KC
71 Ramirez, Chi
65 Cabrera, Cle
58 Peralta, Det
42 Plouffe, Min [I thought he was a White House adviser? Shouldn’t he be concentrating on that?]
31 Nishioka, Min
At 4.08, Asdrubal’s Range Factor/9 is the worst of the lot. Escobar, Ramirez and Asdrubal each made an error about every 10 games; the Minnesotans, an error every 5 or so games. Jhonny made an error every 20 games. If I were a Tigers fan, I wouldn’t count on that again—he has averaged, in his career, an error about every 9 games. (I mention this because, while it’s nice to steal a hit by virtue of defensive prowess, I suspect that the burden placed on a pitcher by booting what should have been an out is of greater significance—though I offer no evidence for that guess.)
My eyes, like those of the FSR folks, tell me Asdrubal is better than Peralta and is an adequate MLB shortstop. Given his offense and his switch-hitting, I think he is a significant plus for the Indians.
I guess all that new defensive F/x data is proprietary. Too bad.
Just about every pro baseball man would tell you that range trumps errorlessness. It simply adds up to more plays.
42 Plouffe, Min [I thought he was a White House adviser? Shouldn’t he be concentrating on that?]
He’s always had trouble moving to his right.
by mcrose on Dec 19, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
For that matter, putting Donald at 2B and Kipnis in LF upgrades infield defense and corner outfield production without trading anybody.
Yes, but it gives us a premium defender at neither SS nor 2B, and it puts Kipnis in a position that he has never played. Also, where’s the depth? Or are we now saying that Brantley is backing up Kipnis?
Honestly, can’t we trade someone to get better all-around fits in these positions?
Or, just sign willingham. You make things so complicated.
by Brick. on Dec 19, 2011 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OR … sign PUJOLS … move him to THIRD … trade THE CHIZ for a better defensive SHORTSTOP … trade DROOBS for ROY HALLADAY … trade CHRIS PEREZ for TEIXEIRA … have PUJOLS and TEIXEIRA flip a COIN to decide who plays where!
Final thought … Droobs wasn’t the heart of this team a year ago, and he may not be a year from now. Let’s not get carried away with claims of essentiality.
Well, he’s a close as we have. He’s the only guy on the team that could and did dress down Santana in the dugout when he got lazy.
If we’re not signing guys to extensions anymore, and the next two years are, in fact, “the window”, he’s one guy I wouldn’t consider trading.
Considering age, position, years of service, and production, Santana is more valuable than Asdrubal. You’ve got your untouchables confused.
There is a difference between trade value and value to the team, that’s why trades get made. We do not have anyone at all to play SS other than Droobs. Santana does have more value on the trade market, but that’s exactly why I would consider trading him – to get a lot of value in return. Talent that better complements the current roster.
First off, I’ll admit I’m a bigger fan that most of Donald. But as long as Marson keeps on putting up a sub 600 OPS, I would easily take Donald as an everyday SS over Marson as an everyday C.
Yeah, the idea is that Marson would get somewhat better with consistent AB’s. I like Donald too, but Marson is a superior defender at a a premium defensive position, which Donald would not be at short.
I’ve mentioned this before, I think there’s an inherent conflict, on this club at least, with the catcher bearing so much responsibility for generating offense – trying to rest him at other positions, etc. I’d rather have Santana’s production at 1B, in the form of a “real” everyday position player, and have our superior defensive catcher doing what he does best everyday, and batting at the back of the order.
Lou Marson, as a regular in Columbus, couldn’t break a .700 OPS. Maybe he does find his way out of Orlando Cabrera territory, but I’m not hopeful. I can live with Donald’s defense, I’m not sure I can live with such a black hole in the lineup.
And I know the Santana at C or 1B argument has been played out many times on this site, and I think it depends on a few circumstances (such as your other option at 1B is LaPorta’s post-injury .285 OBP), but I don’t see how you force yourself to limit Santana’s value to your team just because it seems normal to put the defensive player at catcher and the offensive player at 1B.
I don’t think Santana at first is the best option either. He’s not a first baseman. That’s why I brought up the scenario of trading him for a real 1B.
I still see this as simply wanting to pigeon-hole players. I think it would be easier to find an upgrade at 1B than to find an affordable 1B bat that can make up for both Santana now being out of the lineup, and Marson being in it everyday. Basically, is this as good as Santana is going to be and does Votto make sense financially for this team?
How about Hosmer?
As far as pigeon-holing, you can call it something else as well – holding down a steady job at the position you are best suited for. Santana’s bat is so valuable to this team that they aren’t willing to pencil him in everyday at catcher, and are forced to give him regular at bats at 1B.
Let’s say we actually did have an excellent 1B. Are we supposed to take his glove and bat out of the lineup so Carlos can play? Tell Hafner he has to sit and take another good bat out of the lineup?
Like I said, when you rely so heavily on your catcher’s offense, to the point where him catching every day is something to avoid for health/rest reasons, there’s a bit of an issue there regarding putting your best team on the field.
Before the LaPorta injury, Santana was playing catcher 70%+ of games. He was holding down a steady job. He played there because he had a better bat than our other 1B options, not because they weren’t willing to pencil him in everyday at C.
If we had an excellent 1B bat, then Santana would play 120ish games at catcher, like he was on pace to do when we had just below-average, and not completely awful production at 1B.
As I recall, they publicly stated from the getgo last year that their policy would be get Santana semi-regular starts at1B precisely to rest him and save him from the wear and tear of catching everyday.
This was news to nobody after his suddenly abbreviated rookie campaign.
And when he was catching, I’m sure I’m not alone in cringing every time he took a foul ball off the shoulder or foot or wherever. Not just as an empathetic response, but because having our best hitter continually nicked up is not a good thing.
While Asdrubal isn’t the best defensive SS in the AL, probably not even the division, Hanley doesn’t have very long at the position either and will need to move eventually. It seems like Asdrubal can still have some productive years on defense at SS which is opposite of Hanely. Am I wrong in this assumption?
So, uh, I REALLY want Jesus Guzman. Seems like he could fill that batting-seventh-playing-first role way better than LaPorta and not cost as much as Rizzo or Alonso.
A 27 year old 1B with questionable defense experiencing success due to a .360 BABIP.
I’d see if the price is right but I’d probably pass.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 17, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
I will always rec this
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 21, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
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