Unfinished Business
by Ryan on Dec 21, 2011 7:07 AM EST
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The Indians had three main goals this offseason, at least as far as acquisitions were concerned:
1. Stabilize the starting rotation
This was taken care of almost immediately. The Indians made the first trade of the offseason, acquiring Derek Lowe from the Braves in a salary dump, and they also picked up Fausto Carmona's 2012 team option. As far as I know, that ended their interest in starting pitching for the winter.
2. Find a starting center fielder
After allowing Grady Sizemore to test the market, they re-signed him to a one-year deal with $4M less in guaranteed money, although he'll get to $9M if he makes 650 plate appearances. This was also completed fairly quickly, and before many of the other free agents signed.
3. Add offensive production in either left field or first base, preferably a right-handed power hitter
This one hasn't been addressed, and might not be addressed at all. They were one of the finalists for Josh Willingham, but balked at giving the 32-year-old a three-year contract. The other outfielder that fit what they were looking at, Michael Cuddyer, ended up signing for more money than Willingham.
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There's still opportunities on the trade market, whether it be for one of the Angels' redundant first basemen or even San Diego's Anthony Rizzo, but the Indians aren't going to grab that offensive bat via free agency. As of today Michael Brantley is your starting left fielder, and the first baseman will be an amalgam of Carlos Santana, Shelley Duncan, and Matt LaPorta. Santana, of course, is also the starting catcher, so whenever he's playing first, Lou Marson will be in the lineup; that just shifts the offensive problem to catcher.
The Indians meanwhile have concentrated on depth, signing Felix Pie and Jose Lopez to minor-league contracts, and trading for Aaron Cunningham. Cunningham has the inside track on the fourth outfielder spot, as he's not only right-handed, but also out of options.
If this was a rebuilding season, these wouldn't be a bad series of moves, but 2012 looks like the first of two seasons in which the Indians should be able to compete with the present cast of characters. Travis Hafner and Grady Sizemore will likely be gone after this season, and more importantly, Asdrubal Cabrera, Ubaldo Jimenez, and Shin-Soo Choo will likely be free agents after the 2013 season. It seems like the window of opportunity is 2012-2013, and that means in my opinion that the Indians just can't go into the 2012 season with both Matt LaPorta and Michael Brantley as starters.
So there's still some unfinished business for the Indians this offseason, and it almost has to be a trade.
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Except he neglected to include the part where he figures out how to pay for Fielder.
by MTF on Dec 21, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Good rundown thanks Ryan. As Paul C pointed out, DeRosa happened on New Year’s Eve so I’m giving the staff the benefit of the doubt. I only have 2 issues with the off season:
*The insipid report of trying Brantley out at first base (wrong on so many levels)
*The silly bone Antonetti threw to reporters on the “deal they couldn’t guess in 50 attempts”. What did that accomplish?
Brantley played some first base in the minors, but yeah, that report threw me as well.
I don’t mind the statement from Antonetti. He’s basically saying that they had some potential deals that would have been out-of-the-blue.
As an aside, it would be interesting for GMs to release after the fact (5 years later, let’s say) all the potential deals that weren’t completed.
I too would love to hear those potential deals, but it would often feel like it did when we were told that there was a deal in plce back in the day of Jaret Wright for Pedro… Also I like that the GM is letting us know that there is stuff going on. It gets frustrating to hear that team x or Y is signing different players, it is good to hear that the Front Office is not just sitting around playing xbox, but give you something to think, talk about.
Love reading that stuff, can’t get enough of it. Like seeing who turned down, screen tested or was rejected for famous film roles. Eric Stoltz gets fired five weeks into filming Back to the Future. Who knew? John Hart said he thought he had Randy Johnson in 1998. Wouldn’t mind hearing the clear entire story how that went down.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 21, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes the best trades are the ones you make. Courthouse Square, Back to the Future’s downtown Hill Valley, was the site of the first Twilight Zone episode, among many other big and small screen shoots, by the way.
Rod Serling, pride of Antioch College, Yellow Springs Ohio. Wonder if he was a Tribe fan. Being a fan of the Indians in the 60s and 70s was like being in the Twilight Zone.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 22, 2011 6:20 AM EST up reply actions
John Hart has a long history of not getting the ace. He also thought he had Clemens and turned down a deal for Pedro.
But he got us Ben McDonald (arm fell off), John Smiley (arm broke off) and Mr. Stickfigure Jack McDowell. Not to mention Dave Burba!
You are making me cry.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 23, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
Well, Burba was no ace, but he put up a 64-60 QS mark—68-56 with the Selig Era Adjustment (7+IP, 4 ER)—over four seasons. He doesn’t belong in the Smiley-McDonald-et al category. His Indians were 73-51 in those starts, too. Ah, the days when you could trot out Dave Burba and win 59% of your games!
Including games where you find yourself down 14-2.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I remembered he was pitching really well at the end of the ’98 season, when he pulled up lame in the Boston series. That sealed our demise. I liked Burba, he was terrific 3-4 guy.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Jaret Wright. If we only would have traded him for Pedro how our world might be spinning on a different axis.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
With those lineups, I’m kind of amazed we only won 59% of Burba’s games. Seemed like he gave up exactly 3 ER in exactly 7 IP in about half his starts.
A consistent pitcher with that lineup behind him would seem to win a ton of games. Just give up those 3 ER, hang on for those 7 innings, and wait for the eventual fireworks.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Not quite, but it happened 5 times in ’98—including 3 starts in a row in May—and 3 more times in ’99; the Indians were 5-3 in those starts. His last 7 inning, 3 earned run performance actually came in relief in August, 2001, a loss to the Angels.
62.5% winning percentage, spot on. 5-3 becomes 15-9. Gets one a nice arbitration raise. For the current day Mariners, he’d be 2-6.
15-9. I guess that is worth Luke Scott. Or not.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think that they should be looking for LF and 1B. Not LF or 1B.
Once again, I suggest Casey Kotchman for 1B.
Bastian tweeted that the Indians signed Andy LaRoche to a minor-league deal with a non-roster spring invite.
BIZNESS IS FINISHED.
You are reading my signature.
Excellent rundown. The onus is squarely on Netti to come thru with adding a starting OF, given this “two year window”. No waiting until mid-season, etc. They have to get the team ready to compete, and not fool themselves about the likelihood of Grady playing a lot. Or even well when he is playing.
1B is in need of an upgrade, but at least we have some depth and options there. Of the two, getting a decent bat for LF is more important. If Netti stands pat, in my opinion he’s done a poor job this offseason.
They said Willingham’s contract was too big, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t give someone else a contract like that. Part of me wants to dream that we’re still in on Cespedes.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Yesterday the Chicago Tribune speculated that the bidding for Cespedes is expected to go beyond $50 million.
Whoa never mind then.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 21, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Posting fees for Cubano is getting almost as high as for Japanese players…
by JulioBernazard on Dec 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
The interest from other teams in Cespedes probably (certainly) makes his signing unlikely, but I agree with your premise. The market for Beltran seems to be a little soft, and the FO was interested in him last year. If we freed up some payroll by trading C. Perez or such, we could possibly afford Beltran. Not likely, but not impossible.
I really like the idea of Beltran… He could be a very good fit depending on the length of the contract. I also wonder about some of the other players that are not getting much news time, Like Vlad, Eric Chavez, and Oswalt. I would love to see Oswalt as our Millwood signing for this year, one year deal, potential to prove his health…Really anyone who could have a potential breakout season, either as a comeback player or as a late bloomer.
I’d prefer a 2 year deal… But he is a Boras client so we’d likely have to go more than two… Either way he’d be fun to see…
Sure. $10 million here, $10 million there, pretty soon you’re talking about real money.
by woodsmeister on Dec 21, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I would love to see a healthy Carlos Beltran in left field for the Tribe. I just wonder whether an age 37 Carlos Beltran will even be healthy enough to even be tradeable given the state of his knees.
by woodsmeister on Dec 21, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
If there wasn’t questions about Beltran’s health/age we wouldn’t even be talk about him as a potential signing.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 21, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So now it’s OK to say this? However last thread when I complained that we had done nothing but sign Cunningham and Pie, I got tons of pushback.
It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 21, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
1. Never a good idea to make things personal. Everyone here has had someone disagree with something they wrote, it’s part of being part of this community. Personal attacks (attacking the person, not the idea) are expressly prohibited in the Ground Rules, and are moderated.
2. Please direct any further concerns to me via e-mail. I will be deleting any further responses on this topic.
Perhaps some of the Hafner money coming off the books in 2013 (after the $3 million buyout) will be used to extend Choo or Asdrubal, or make another move to help extend the “window” beyond 2 years.
This is also my train of thought, the fact the we don’t have many players on the books for the future would make me think that we could have the money to spend, this year, knowing that the 10-15 million bump in payroll will be for one year (Unless Hafner becomes Pronk again) and then the contracts will equal each other out. The main question on a money side of it would be can Player X bring in enough wins/excitment/success to offset the additional spending this year prior to shedding the other contracts next off season. Or are we anticipating using the funds currently allocated to hafner to sign long term deals with some of out current core?
I don’t think Choo is going to agree to an extension before free agency. We’re already two years away, and Boras clients don’t normally pass up free agency.
Agree, sadly. Asdrubal and Masterson should be the targets for extensions in the next year.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Fearless prediction; Choo is gone by the trading deadline if he is back to form and Indians aren’t contending.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 21, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt that. It’s rare to trade a guy more than a year before he hits free agency. 2009 was the exception, not the rule, in that we decided to rebuild in 2010 rather than reload for 2010.
Based on what we know now, it’s unlikely we’ll be making that same determination for 2013 even if we fall out of the 2012 race. Again, that kind of move is the exception.
The world will look different at the deadline. I think they’d take a bare-knuckled look at their assets and how it might play out in the following year. But if Cleveland is out or the running by the trading deadline, I think they’d reassess whether they could compete the following year. It would be hard to be optimistic if the team just hadn’t performed. Hope it doesn’t come to that.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thank goodness we got Andy LaRoche! what did he bat last year?
"There's a gleam men, there's a gleam!" Marty
Usually 8th or 9th. Sometimes 7th.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Dec 21, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
What we need to focus on is locking up our young, proven players (Masterson, Cabrera, Choo, etc.) long term. Fans claim that spending money in free agency will bring fans to the ballpark, but let’s be honest, would signing a 2nd rate free agent bring a significant boost in ticket sales? No. What could keep people coming to the ballpark, though, is retaining our current core of players. One of the reasons attendance has been so low in the past 2-3 years is the alienation that came with the fire sale that began after the disastrous start of the ’08 season and really picked up in ’09.
Nothing alienates fans more than seeing their favorite players sent off to the Yankees and Red Sox. Locking up our young players now would help to both widen our window of contention and might give fans a sense of security that their favorite players won’t be suiting up in Boston or New York in a year.
While this is mostly true, I think people are advocating spending in free agency now because it will help them win now. Which would definitely bring people to the ballpark.
The people who are advocating spending big money on big time free agents don’t understand the market that the Indians are in right now. Payroll has already increased by about $20M from last year which means that the only option left is a trade. The only “sell high” candidates I can really think of right now are Drooby and Chris Perez – do you really want to strengthen 1B/LF and have Donald our starting SS or Vinny P closing out games?
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 21, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think signing a 1B and LF would mean that they have to trade Choo. As far as Pestano, sure he could probably close out games just fine.
Why do you think they are so cash strapped that they couldn’t add someone?
With the Angels and the Red Sox both backing off Fransisco Cordero I have to wonder if the market for Chris Perez might pick up.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 21, 2011 10:10 PM EST reply actions
I’m in the camp that wants to keep Perez. I’d like to see if his strikeouts come back. Even if they don’t, he still gives up below a hit per inning by a comfortable margin and he seemed to control LHB last year while facing more of them.
Trading Perez has less to do with his performance and more to do with our ability to improve the team. If you can get a young RH 1B for Perez, say Mark Trumbo for example, and use the money you saved on Perez (est $5 mil) to go after another player (OF?) then I think you have to pull the trigger.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 22, 2011 6:18 AM EST up reply actions
Eww, Mark Trumbo
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 22, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Two things:
Last year our pen was a strength. I understand CP is a bot of a sell high guy, but all this talk of trading him would have us going into the season with a lot of questions, surely.
Regarding Trumbo, his sub 300 OBP doesn’t bother you? We have enough guys that strike out too much already.
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 22, 2011 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You don’t think Vinnie could be just as effective in the closer role as PureRage was last year?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I know he misses more bats than Perez, but he is still quite inexperienced. It might be fear of the unknown, but we finally have a bullpen that I am reasonably calm with in late innings! It’s been a rocky road with our ’pen over the past ten years.
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m a lot more comfortable with our bullpen depth than our OF/1B depth.
As for Trumbo:
1. I mentioned him as just an example of players we could acquire. The important point is the underlying philosophy of trading Perez and filling other holes on the team
2. Trumbo’s .291 OBP is unsettling but his .477 SLG, .223 ISO and 29 HR makes me feel a lot better.
3. As I mentioned about acquiring Beltran. If Trumbo (or any other player we’re going to acquire via trade) didn’t have some warts then they wouldn’t be available. This isn’t meant to write off any player flaws, just to point out that there’s tradeoffs with any player.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Dec 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Tried to think of a good rookie season with low walks….. Jody Gerut had 215 ISO, 494 SLG & 283 BABIP in ’03.
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’ll take the OBP as more of a guide on young players than power stats (ISO, SLG, etc). This is one of the reasons I think Carlos Santana is going to be HUGE this season!!!
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 24, 2011 1:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’ll take the OBP as more of a guide on young players than power stats (ISO, SLG, etc). This is one of the reasons I think Carlos Santana is going to be HUGE this season!!!
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 24, 2011 1:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’ll take the OBP as more of a guide on young players than power stats (ISO, SLG, etc). This is one of the reasons I think Carlos Santana is going to be HUGE this season!!!
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 24, 2011 1:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’ll take the OBP as more of a guide on young players than power stats (ISO, SLG, etc). This is one of the reasons I think Carlos Santana is going to be HUGE this season!!!
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 24, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’ll take the OBP as more of a guide on young players than power stats (ISO, SLG, etc). This is one of the reasons I think Carlos Santana is going to be HUGE this season!!!
Sorry, something went crazy with the cell phone there.
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 24, 2011 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So water does flow clockwise in sinks and toilets in Australia. I knew it.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I can confirm this. Not sure if the speed of the whirlpool decreases as you go further north though, or what happens at the equator.
by Aussie Wahoo on Dec 26, 2011 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh yikes, I see a meme coming. I DID NOTHING WRONG.
Where is the LGT glossary for these?
by Bogalusa Bomber on Dec 24, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
No glossary. It would make us appear too friendly.
by Jay on Dec 26, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is already a meme on DBN, take that how you will.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 26, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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