Orlando Cabrera to Indians
So says Jon Heyman. Link is to his Twitter page, the only source I have right now.
UPDATE: Little bit fleshed out by Craig Calcaterra, who helps us make sense of it all. -afh
UPDATE 2: Castro reasons through the signing. -afh
over 1 year ago
nickjs21
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My guess is OC to second, Donald and Nix battle for third base with the loser as utility infielder.
by jefftribe on Feb 10, 2011 2:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hmm…hard to know how to evaluate this until we here where the club sees Cabrera playing. He’s been a good defender at short throughout his career, but it is hard to know what that would mean for Asdrubal. Also, I’m wondering if Cabrera is coming in on a minor-league or major-league deal.
My problem with moving Asdrubal anywhere is that we have within the organization solutions in place at 2B (Kipnis or Phelps) and 3B (Chisenhall or Phelps), but not at SS. We might as well keep Asdrubal at short if he is going to be our solution there for the next 2-3 years. Moving him to second this season, only to move him back to SS next year seems like a bad idea.
He’s not going to get better at it by playing 2B. And even if Cabrera comes in and plays the position in 2011, who is there in 2012?
Orlando Cabrera is certainly a strange signing that I didn’t see coming. However, if we stink, he’ll only be here until the deadline. At which point Droobs can move back.
Its has to be a minor league deal based on his 2009 and 2010 numbers, right???
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
Well he can be entertaining!!!
“It does not sound like Chicago White Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera has manager Ozzie Guillen on his buddy list.
Cabrera believes that his skipper is not protecting him pointing to the fact that he had to call the official scorer himself on two different occasions to complain about errors awarded to him.
“I don’t have to do it with other teams because they always had my back,‘’ the shortstop was quoted in a story by Mark Gonzales of The Chicago Tribune. "They don’t want to do it here, I can take care of my own business."
Guillen said he thought the phone calls were selfish on Cabrera’s part."
May 28, 2008, USA TODAY’s Reid Cherner
I find this pretty flummoxing. Cabrera has never appeared in a game outside of the middle infield and, if there’s one thing it doesn’t appear the Indians need, it’s the middle infield.
Don’t like him for what? I can’t imagine why playing a 36 year old Orlando Cabrera over the 25 year old Asdrubal Cabrera makes sense.
How about as a backup SS for Asdrubal? Otherwise, you’d have Donald or Nix playing short if Asdrubal were injured.
Seems a bit much to carry a guy who only really backs up SS. We clearly don’t need any more 2B (as we’ll probably have at least 3 guys on the roster who’ve played significant time there) and we still have no real 3B.
I hate to say this but if they were going to add this kind of player, Punto made a lot more sense. He can play 3B.
I’m with you. I don’t get it. These are the kinds of signings I stopped giving the front office a free pass on. They think we need competition to make guys better. Opportunity to show their grit! That they are gamers! Baseball has necessary relaxation and focus quotients to succeed. Maybe Shapiro can’t shake his football past: he thinks we are filling right tackle.
“He’s the first guy in in the morning and the last guy to leave at night.” I hate those guys. Why isn’t it reasonable to be the last guy in in the morning, and the last guy out at night. Or first in the morning, first one out at night.
My greatest fear is this: that we wasted out time on these marginal guys like Kearns and Cabrera, and didn’t give nearly enough thought to the middle of the rotation. If we come out of the gate strong, I think we’ll find ourselves desperate for a Jake Westbrook.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 11, 2011 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
We could. And if we do, I don’t want to eat another useless year of Choo’s and Sizemore’s (and even Hafner’s, dare I say it) availability. Guys with over 130 OPS+ don’t grow on trees.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 13, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Two years ago, no question I think he can. After watching Nix (who was sincerely presented as a terrific 2B) and, to a lesser extent, JP, I no longer have any confidence in the plug and play model of 3B. If you’ve never played it (and he hasn’t) then I no longer assume you can.
So, I’d give it 50/50.
by afh4 on Feb 11, 2011 12:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I changed my mind.
Both of your examples were fringy shortstops. A good, veteran shortstop makes that move successfully nine times out of ten.
The guy can’t hit a lick, not even in the NL.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 13, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
He had a 303 OBP, 0 HRs, and 28 BBs in almost 500 ABs. That’s zero home runs. Duane Kuiper, where are you? Maybe he can sponsor his baseball reference page.
Missed all the fun. Was in Korea on biz. A number of Tribe hats, but no Ryan Garko sighting.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 15, 2011 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
I stopped watching after Marissa died, but I should have stopped watching at least a season earlier.
Steel Nick
You should have stopped watching before the pilot.
by emd2k3 on Feb 14, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can Ezequiel Carrera play first? “Cabrera to Cabrera to Carrera” makes this signing worth it. Otherwise, no.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 10, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
There has to be some measure of fear about having Donald as your back-up SS in this move, right?
Depending upon what kind of deal it is, it could just be a matter of Cabrera joining the ranks of Everett to be the UI/back-up SS or even a depth option in Columbus.
I thought about this too but I can’t see O. Cabrera signing with us to be a depth option. If he was going to be a depth option and even play in AAA why come to Cleveland?
Becuase nobody else wants him? Because he’s burned all his bridges? Because he lost his job last year to Paul Janish?
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando Cabrera is trending in the US, which goes to show how much of the national spotlight is on Cleveland these days.
Steel Nick
Or how desperate the world is for baseball to begin.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 10, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
So what happens if he loses….well likely loses, since Nix is the better 2B both defensively and offensively? Did they really need to bring in a lessor player to compete with Jason Nix? Answer my questions nick!
Maybe they are retreading the bullpen philosophy from recent years and applying it to 2B?
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
Rosenthal just tweeted that Orlando is going to compete for the 2B job. I think this means Donald is going to be primarily a third baseman right? I can’t see a three way competition with Nix/O. Cabrera and Donald at 2B with Hannahan at 3B.
Corresponding 40-man move… If this deal sends Crowe out, it’s the greatest signing in the Antonetti era.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 10, 2011 3:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Indeed!
Anything in life is possible, except for skiing through revolving doors.
by MooneysRebellion on Feb 10, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
lol, definitely.
Too bad there’s no way of that happening with not knowing what will happen with Grady.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I view Orlando. I am hereby refusing to call him Cabrera.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
It’s a shame I hate him. So many Calrissian-themed nicknames at our disposal. But Calrissian is for cool cats.
Steel Nick
Uh… he dimed Luke out. He ain’t cool!
by JulioBernazard on Feb 10, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Look, I just don’t understand how he was promoted to General so quickly.
Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 12, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No one told you about that little maneuver at the Battle of Taanab?
by The Grimace on Feb 12, 2011 6:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But he is the spokesman for Colt 45.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 10, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
So:
2B O.Cabrera/Donald/Nix
SS A. Cabrera/O. Cabrera
3B Nix/Donald
UT Donald/Nix/Cabrera
But then again, Cabrera has played second a grand total of 241 innings in his career. It’s like the Indians are trying to field a whole infield full of players playing out of position.
Infielders playing out of position is the next market inefficiency for the team to exploit first?
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 10, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that hard. Lots of shortstops would adapt more naturally to 3B than to 2B, and despite the customary division of the infield into slick-fielding middle guys and slugging corner guys, the reality is that 3B has about the same positional value as 2B. In other words, if you’re willing to move a guy from SS to 2B, may as well move him to 3B, if that suits his particular actions and organizational needs.
My personal opinion is that he won’t be a good defender at 3B. I don’t think he has the build or arm strength for it.
And that’s the rub…it really can only be a question about opinion. The Indians presumably have guys in place who can do a better job of coming up with an informed opinion based on how they evaluate Cabrera’s tools…but it is still a matter of opinion until he actually starts logging time there.
And I’ll say again…shouldn’t there be a positive relationship (controlling for decreasing skills/athleticism) between time spent at a position and one’s ability to play it well? And if so, isn’t all this moving around of guys detrimental?
Neyer talks to Antonetti and gets this:
According to Antonetti, “Asdrubal Cabrera is our shorstop.”
…
So what of 36-year-old Orlando Cabrera? “At worst,” Antonetti says, “he’ll be a utility guy for us.” A utility guy, I will add, who can still play a pretty good shortstop and fill in just about anywhere else, which might matter with a starting rotation loaded with ground-ball pitchers.
Ideally, Luis Valbuena wins the job at second base this spring
Rob Neyer and I do not share the same ideals.
Methinks Neyer did not much 2010 Tribe baseball.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
2011 weighted mean PECOTA projections
Cabrera TAv .237
Donald TAv .241
Phelps TAv .253
Valbuena TAv .253
Nix TAv .257
2011 Marcel projections
Valbuena wOBA .292
Cabrera wOBA .295
Nix wOBA .304
Donald wOBA .321
Cabrera, Cabrera, Perez, Perez. Would love another Santana, but not the one in New York who’s due $75.5 mil over the next 3y.
The west coast Santana isn’t cheap, but it’s not bad. Someday soon it will again make sense to have a couple players in that $10+ mil a season bracket.
Tangent: Assuming inflation at 2.2% a year, it will probably be at least a decade before the Tribe sign its first $20+ mil / year player.
Even if salary expansion as a share of revenues ceases, and baseball’s growth as an enterprise is flat, I think we’ll see the Yankees have a $1+ billion dollar payroll within our lifetimes.
I think I’m probably ok with this. It would be one thing if he was going to be blocking Kipnis or The Chiz, but I’m pretty sure of the following things: 1) I’ve seen enough of Valbuena to know I don’t want to see more of him; 2) We’ve seen the best that there is to Nix and, well, that’s not very good; 3) Donald and Phelps are marginal major league players; 4) Hannahan is horrendous; 5) Cabrera is not good, but his defense will probably be ok and, if he gets hot, he can be flipped to make room for Kipnis/Chiz; 6) if Cabrera is terrible (likely) this contract will not be difficult for the Indians to eat.
So, overall, I’m all meh.
I think Phelps deserves a chance to prove last year wasn’t a fluke before he gets thrown in with Donald.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 10, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I have this irrational love of Orlando Cabrera, despite what every stat says. I just remembered when the Red Sox took off in 2004 after he replaced Nomar, and I was actually worried when the White Sox signed him for 2008…and then they won. And then the Reds.
Again, it’s completely irrational, and he appears to have lost whatever power he ever had, and he’s probably lost a step defensively. And even though I have this irrational love of him, I don’t really know if I like the signing.
If you’re starting the OC Irrational Love Club, can I be the secretary or treasurer?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
What’s to irrationally love? Seriously, someone explain this to me. How his one premium skill, defense, has aged off of him? How he can’t hit? How he’s been a dick to every teammate and manager he’s ever had? Triple threat.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Feb 10, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think he’s ever had a reputation for the former. Remember this is the guy who complained the official scorer in the middle of a game because his stats were being affected.
Steel Nick
I heard him described as a “veteran clubhouse leader” with playoff experience tonight on sports radio.
Ok. You’re right, it doesn’t count because it was sports radio.
OK, is this one of those moves that we’re all supposed to hate but maybe is good because we all hate it?
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 11, 2011 9:52 AM EST reply actions
Nah. Too easy.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 11, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
So I keep reading in places, pro Cleveland places, that Asdrubal basically has no business being at SS with Orlando on the roster, if we want the best defensive lineup. I’m sorry, but I’m looking at the defensive numbers on BRef and I just don’t see it. Asdrubal I see as I guy who is still struggling to find consistency while Orlando is player with good defense in his past, is ever increasing distant past. His 2009 numbers alone make you consider that Valbuena would be a more viable option.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
I also don’t agree. Orlando has been in his career a better SS that Asdrubal is probably capable of being. But he isn’t necessarily now. And Asdrubal, I think, can be a better shortstop than he has shown in the recent past. I think it is an even bet, given the opportunity, who would provide better defense at short this season, but not an even bet as to who is more valuable to Cleveland going forward.
Even if you weren’t right—and I’m sure you are—Asdrubal is never going to improve at short if he only plays there every other year. Unless the plan is to trade him, he’s going to be playing short once Kipnis arrives anyway.
Steel Nick
I have officially lost track of this infield. Who’s played where, who can play where, who’s the favourite for where…guess I’ll wake up on Opening Day.
Let’s not start the Laurel and Hardy stuff again.
by odradek on Feb 14, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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