Hoynes: Laffey traded to Seattle
This kind of saddens me. Only me? Fair enough.
(Link updated to the Cleveland.com story instead of PH's tweet. Neither has any info.)
Another update: Greg Johns says the Indians acquire Matt Lawson and cash.
about 1 year ago
nickjs21
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Meanwhile, Crowe survives again!?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I am a big Laffey fan. Of all those player photos from team picture day, I like Laffey’s the most because it reminds me of guys I went to high school with in Cleveland. Sad face.
That said, Laffey seems like a good candidate to turn into a pitcher with zero value very quickly. If we got anything, seems like a good baseball move.
by APV on Mar 2, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t be much. Hopefully we get some sort of low-A guy.
by APV on Mar 2, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Struck out the side yesterday. And not a soft-tosser.
by APV on Mar 2, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
It is entirely possible that we’re seeing an early manifestation of a difference between Shapiro and Antonetti. Maybe Antonetti never quite got the soft-tossing lefty thing and isn’t going to show much interest in pitchers like that.
Liking Netti’s moves so far. Both the commission and omission. Biggest non-move is not signing a retread #5 starter when we have a lot of internal 40 man competition for that spot. All his signings so far are targeted to actual ML depth issues for this year and this year only, including RH relief to start the year (Durbin as place holder).
The only initial head scratcher for me was OCab. I thought Donald had earned more at bats at the top level, and was being demoted to Columbus. But that turns out not to be the case – surprisingly (mebbe not so, considering), he’s being given the 3B job to lose. Considering our 2011 options at that position, that’s fine with me. So far, Antonelli is keeping to the build from within credo.
I think he did Laffey a favor, actually. Stuck between starting and relief, low on the depth charts for each in this organization right now. He’s got a decent ML track record as a home grown HS draftee (16th round in the same year we drafted Atom Miller) but strangely, immediately improves his opportunities by moving to another system.
I don’t think it was an indictment against anybody in particular, other than the org’s vaudeville attempts to put together a ML caliber infield.
Its admittedly weird, kind of a wackamole – the OCab signing was a practical move to improve the infield defense this year for a young groundball staff. Fair enuf. You could say that OCab at SS and Droobs at 2B is a dynamite combo, each at their best positions. But Ocab can’t play SS for us. Why? Because they can’t move ACab from SS to 2B (his best position) since he’s the only viable SS we have in the system for the next few years, while we have 2B prospects in the wings, soon to come.
So that means OCab goes to 2B, perhaps not the choice you would make for a one season run, and he pushes Donald off the position he earned last year. Where does Donald go? Third Base. Where he pushes off Nix, who was the front runner even tho he’s not a 3B either. Abbott and Costello did it already, but its not who’s on first, its I don’t know on third base.
So I guess you’re right -Nix is indicted, Donald is voted in (which I actually think is a good thing, since he earned the at bats and is a better defensive player).
And the result is nobody is playing at their best position, but they’re playing at the best position they need to be for this team at this time.
I actually like it. Do I think it’ll work out? I don’t know…(rimshot) … third base!
Kipniz and Chiz are the heirs apparent, and I’m glad Donald gets his shot. It’s still weird that we go into 2011 with two infielders suddenly playing positions they never have before at the ML level.
What I like about the OCab move to 2B is how the Indians have sold it to him as an opportunity to extend his career by a few years and that OCab appears to have totally bought in.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
Do you think Antonetti’s training wheels have come off yet? I’m not sure. I’d imagine Shapiro still looms large. And I think you may be giving Antonetti too much credit for his offseason inaction. He didn’t do anything stupid like sign Melvin Mora, and he deserves credit for that because a lesser GM would make such a move just to look like he was doing something. But I think his hands were tied. It’s not like there are a lot of viable outfield or 3B options out there.
I think it’s the opposite. I think Antonetti had a strong influence during last year’s offseason, and Shapiro more or less was deferring to him by the time trade season started in June. If Antonetti’s hands are tied, it’s not by Shapiro per se but simply by the budget.
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. I think Shap did a self-evaluation last year and came to the objective conclusion (did you get that?) that even tho he was in his prime, in good shape, no problems in his personal life, etc., that he really wasn’t into this Tribe GM stuff anymore.
He’s what – 43, 44 yrs old? He’s got a base 7 figure salary and plenty of time to redirect his career and get off the 80 hour work weeks, whether in baseball or without. Fair to say that the Princeton graduate has his sights set a little higher than micro-managing the 40 man roster. He’s handed it off. And I guarantee that if he ever runs for political office he will never utter the phrase “joined at the hip”.
This is not a dis on Shap. Just that its obvious Antonelli is GM now.
.
I’d bet that Shapiro is working just as hard now as he was before. As you suggest, I think he craves new challenges and opportunities for personal growth.
I’ll take him as the NFL commissioner right now.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Mar 3, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Last year? I think Shapiro decided several years ago that both he and Antonetti would be ready and hungry for new challenges within a few years.
Shapiro is a long-term commissioner prospect.
Buffoon? Really? Buffoon?
With your vast command of the language, that’s the very best, most apt word you can come up with to attach to Shapiro?
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think Shapiro makes seven figures? I’m not so sure.
If he works 80 hours a week, he could regain control of his life by laying off the Powerpoint and cutting back on the mission statements.
If he ever runs for political office, it shouldn’t be in Cuyahoga County.
Plenty of Princeton graduates—including the one that just got kicked upstairs—would kill to be able to micro-manage a 40-man roster. That may be as good as it gets for Shapiro. Remember the Peter Principle?
Let’s not turn this guy into Napoleon. He made a royal mess of this franchise with his corporatist BS, and by believing he had figured out a way to game the system. Such hubris should not be forgotten, or revised.
How can I get a ticket to the twisted narratives you construct in your head?
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 3, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
A royal mess of this franchise? Really?
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 3, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
NO! I have been to 2025 and let me assure you, things do not turn out well. I would advise anyone planning to attend home games that year at either League Park or Browns Stadium to change their mind. At the very least, avoid any morning/afternoon double headers after the first 3 in June. Do not take part in any fan participation games; especially if Baerga is managing that day.
The concessions are “safe” for consumption.
I'm emotional about my glove...
by JimmyAB on Mar 3, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Indians situation has nothing to do with baseball’s economic climate and everything to do with a GM who built a team that should have gone to and probably won the World Series? And another 93 win team? Starting with a totally barren farm system and aging and little talented major league roster?
It is frankly surprising how well he did with the franchise given baseball’s inherently unfair playing field.
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 3, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it’s the natural arc of a general manager, and Shapiro left behind an exhausted and decadent franchise, just as most GMs do. The past couple of years haven’t been good, even if one assigns most of the Tribe’s plight to economic climate. The drafts were disasters—and remained so for far too long, and this executive dereliction is Shapiro’s—while management was clearly unprepared to deal with the players it had selected. Shapiro’s hubris is obvious. None of this is easy, of course, and it’s possible Shapiro did better than anyone else could have, but if he gets credit for a 93-win team, he should also get credit for losing 190 games over the past two seasons.
I won’t get into the Shapiro/Hart argument—Hart also left the franchise in disarray—but is it possible Shapiro happened unto a team that was pretty good?
The more I see of baseball, the more I appreciate the randomness of almost everything involved with it. We all like to assign causes, and maybe we give Shapiro credit for something that would have happened even if Cam Bonifay ran the team.
The Indians are a “decadent” franchise? Is Antonetti feeding Shapiro grapes, perhaps rubbing him with oils?
I see it more as an inevitable boom and bust cycle, and for a small market major league club, it’s an aspirational boom and an inevitable bust. Shapiro started out with a fairly clumsy attempt to extend the boom cycle one more year and ended up in rebuild overdrive.
The aspirational boom was brilliant in some respects but also disappointing. In retrospect, were those disappointments Shapiro’s shortcoming or symptomatic of the worsening economics? Tough call. I think it’s about 50-50, between economics and weak drafting earlier in the decade.
So he leaves on a downturn, absorbing the blame for his successor the way John Hart never did for him. Bad luck? Bad management? Maybe it’s just bad timing.
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think this is about right. Shapiro may have engaged in a bit of irrational exuberance. For a while it seemed like he was convinced his use of quantitative analysis granted him an advantage less-enlightened GMs didn’t enjoy. Market inefficiencies (soft-tossing lefties! lantern-jawed infielders!) were being exploited, just like in the economy. Old rules no longer applied.
Would a replacement-level GM have done any worse with what Shapiro was handed? Would a replacement-level GM have done worse in trading Bartolo Colon?
In the free agent era, there are fewer than five GMs who have ever won 93 games on a $40 million payroll, or the inflation-adjusted equivalent. A replacement-level GM can’t do it, but Shapiro did.
Likewise, in 2007, the two smallest payrolls in the AL went 96-66 and 66-96, and again, not just anyone can pull that off. The 2005-2007 clubs were one of the very best in the game and definitely had the lowest budget among their peers.
Those clubs were very much the product of Shapiro’s trades, which largely were necessitated by failures in Hart-era drafting, which was not Shapiro’s responsibility at that point.
If you think the Rays are well managed now, you have to concede that the Indians were well managed then.
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I think it is virtually impossible to refute the 2005-07 clubs. They were good, and seemingly well-managed. And economic factors were essential in the decline of those teams. But even on these generous terms, how does one fully explain the subsequent decline, the bad drafts, the bizarre decisions? If we assume Shapiro was good then, why wasn’t he better later?
The Colon deal is arguably the most lucrative of the last 30 years, so the answer is definitely yes, a replacement-level GM, and average GM and the majority of above-average GMs would have done worse than that.
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
The Colon trade was sui generis. You had the Expos in danger of disappearing, and they needed to win immediately. It was a great trade for the Indians, obviously, but could Replacement Level GM have garnered the same reward from Omar Minaya? In other words, is it possible Shapiro was simply lucky with the Colon trade and we think he was instead good? Obviously, some of it was luck. (Sizemore exceeded expectations, didn’t he?)
Don’t you think we make our own luck?
Shapiro wasn’t lucky, he was opportunistic. The Colon deal was not the first “unique” opportunity to be placed in front of a GM and won’t be the last. You could argue that Amaro’s opportunity to acquire and extend Halladay was every bit as unique and significant.
The difference is that the Halladay deal evidently was only available to the Phillies, while the Expos might have been in on many other pitchers with other clubs, and many teams were in fact in on Colon with the Indians.
What we know for sure is this: Shapiro recognized the uniqueness of the opportunity, went after it, milked it for the maximum return, and got it done. It doesn’t seem reasonable to assume that “anyone” could have done it.
It’s not as though this was Shapiro’s only highly successful deal.
I’ll concede that Shapiro was above replacement level. “Anyone” couldn’t have done what he did. But I can’t reconcile the good Shapiro with the bad one. We assign economic causes to cover Shapiro’s failings, but I was simply trying to turn this on its head and see if Shapiro might be bad but simply fortunate. Amaro was lucky to have Halladay delivered at his doorstep, and, yes, a person has to recognize good fortune when it comes and to act accordingly. As someone said, I’d rather be lucky than good.
Seeing as how I can’t align good Shapiro with bad Shapiro, I tend to think it’s more random walk than we realize. We assign motives and directions after the fact to explain what is effectively beyond our control. So I conclude he isn’t as good as he looked when he was good, nor as bad as he looked when he was bad.
Regarding luck, I may be less deterministic than you. I believe things happen to us occasionally that are purely beyond our comprehension and control, both fortunate and unfortunate.
I don’t tend to move to either extreme on this. Shapiro had some great qualities and some bad ones. To call him anything short of one of the best in the game at trading established major leaguers for prospects is a disservice to him.
His negative qualities are also rather apparent with the benefit of hindsight, poor drafting and assembling a bullpen.
Other factors play a part in painting the picture like the economy and budget restrictions, but I don’t think it’s fair to call him great or terrible. He is somewhere in the middle.
If you’re going to credit Shapiro with good luck for having a good team, then you have to allow for bad luck (injuries, etc.) having something to do with the teams that failed. It’s not fair to consider luck only as a positive factor and not as a negative one as well.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
I was hoping to blame the vaudeville routine on Shapiro (“don’t worry—it might look like we don’t know what we’re doing, but we have a plan so complicated it will amaze everyone when it becomes apparent”), but maybe Antonetti is capable of making his own mess. The budgetary constraints are irrefutable, though.
Yes they are. And Netti has yet to really make his mark. Or mess. But for me, no missteps to this point.
So, you’re really going to push this “Netti” thing and see if it catches on, huh?
by Jay on Mar 3, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Laffey was probably Jensen’s ride up and down I-71.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
by USSChoo on Mar 3, 2011 4:27 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
They’ll miss those mid-drive stops at Grandpa’s Cheese Barn for ice cream and apple butter.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Mar 3, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Wow, already found a favorite comment from Cleveland.com:
ALREADY?
So IF Sizemore or Hafner hit a HOME RUN this season they are gone???
Steel Nick
What does that even mean?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 2, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I seriously read “Matt Lawton” at first.
by jdudas on Mar 2, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
On the contrary, I got excited. Now, I thought, I can pick up one of those authentic Matt Lawton jerseys I always see on eBay for $10!
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 2, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
@tribeinsider: The Indians have acquired INF/OF MATT LAWSON from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for AARON LAFFEY. Roster is at 40 to make room for Durbin
(here)
And:
@tribeinsider: Lawson had an .811 OPS last year in Double A between TEX & SEA org’s…He was one of the four players the M’s acquired for Cliff Lee
Turned 25 in November, though.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 2, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Someday soon, somebody is going to need to fill Jordan Brown’s shoes.
by PBH on Mar 2, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That’s why we have shoe trees.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Mar 2, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lookout Landing, at the time of the Cliff Lee deal:
Matt Lawson, 2B
6-foot-0, 195-pounds – 24-years-old – Missouri State U.
I’m not certain on Lawson, but I’d assume he’s also heading to West Tenn. Lawson is the scrappy, all-out at all-times, fan-favorite, hustle-type player that always has his uniform dirty. The kind of guy that doesn’t have a bunch of natural tools but makes up for it with hard work.
Lawson started to turn some heads with a decent season in Bakersfield last year, where Cal League managers [via Baseball America] named him the best defensive second baseman in the league. He moves around well, has smooth footwork, a quick transfer, and a good enough arm for the position. He has also played some left field this year out of necessity [the Frisco team is short on outfielders], and he could play there in a pinch, but he’s primarily a second baseman.
He hit .301/.393/.452 in April, .327/.424/.482 in May, .211/.280/.422 in June, and he’s currently at .211/.375/.211 through six July games. Lawson has been caught in a bad slump. His plate discipline was much-improved earlier in the year, and he told me it was a focus for him, but he really lost patience and swung and missed quite a bit in June. Lawson’s .351/.413/.640 line against left-handed pitching this year is a bit intriguing, I think.
Bottom line on Lawson––he’s a fringe prospect with a chance to reach the majors someday, though he doesn’t project as an everyday second baseman. The Missouri native doesn’t necessarily have any plus tools, but he maximizes his talent and I’d say he also isn’t poor in any one aspect of the game. At the very least, he’ll hang around pro ball for as long as he wants.
I too am intrigued by that line against lefties, Jeff.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Mar 2, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
“This is working exactly to my fiendish plan! Soon, the whole league will come crawling to us,” I can hear GM Jon Lovitz chortle, “begging us to please, please, PLEASE let them have just ONE second baseman. Well, sirs! I will deign to respond: Not for a penny less than . . . ONE MILLION DOLLARS!”
Great Moments in History:
- Joseph corners Egyptian grain market (Genesis 42:3).
- Jay Gould and Jay Fisk corner gold in 1869.
- Hunt brothers corner silver market in 1979.
- Cleveland Indians corner market for middle infielders, 2012.
This corporate stuff pays off.
by odradek on Mar 2, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Hang on a sec …
Fisk and Gould’s actions led to the Fisk/Gould Scandal – and “Black Friday of September 24, 1869”
and
The Hunt Brothers went bankrupt when the silver market collapsed, proving that the best way to make a small in silver market is to start out with a large one.
If this move follows form, MLB will change the rules to allow only one fielder on the right side of the infield, and mandating 4 outfielders.
Right, until he moved his family to Egypt, inadvertently triggering a process that led to the enslavement of an entire people.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 4, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome to PlatoonVille.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Mar 2, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Could be a problem.
Once Jayson Nix is released, who is going to back up Cabrera, Kipnis, Phelps, Donald, and Valbuena?
by xrickx on Mar 2, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Some LLers are complaining about a lack of utility depth now. We have a surplus, let’s make them an offer.
Steel Nick
I posted this over at Lookout Landing:
So there are a lot of us over at LGT who are actually big Laffey fans. Not because we think he is a great pitcher or are deluded about how good a pitcher he has been for Cleveland, but there is just something about him that is likeable. He was never that highly regarded a prospect, but always had above average GB-rates. The assumption was that as he progressed through the system, better hitters would take advantage of him. Instead, in 2007, he dominated AA and AAA, raising his K-rates, improving his control and maintaining his GB-numbers. Basically, exceeding expectations for his ceiling considerably. This led to a big league promotion and an improbable role in the Tribe’s 2007 playoff push. Since then he has bounced between the rotation and the bullpen, always somehow managing to fill in where needed despite his marginal arsenal of stuff. At times, like May 2008 (5 GS, 34 IP, 0.79 ERA), he has actually put together sustained periods of decent pitching. Last year he bottomed out, at times not able to get his FB above 85 mph, but still managed to stick it out in the big league pen. He is quite possibly a major arm injury in waiting, or just a fraction away from a complete collapse, but he is a pretty likable player. Also, his DP-inducing ability is easy to like.
His DP% has been tops in the league pretty much for every stretch he’s had in the majors. Also! ALCS vs. Boston.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I went over there to check out your post and my eyes are still recovering. Reminded me how grateful I am for the decision here to lay off of the subject lines. Interesting to see, though, that you had no problems adapting. I also noticed your post was the easily most substantive comment in two posts full of comments.
If I am being friendly, I’ll adopt the customs of the locals
by APV on Mar 2, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Getting away from the Indians’ defense is probably the best thing that could have happened to Laffey.
Ball doesn’t exactly fly out of Safeco, either. Needless to say, Laffey just leapt up my fantasy draft board.
The persuasion is not inherent in the lobster.
That’s a deep draft.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 3, 2011 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The ease with which we find trading with a mid-market team like the Mariners makes me think Cleveland should lead a consortium of small/mid-market teams that freely exchanges players with a commitment to sending ML talent to the contending team. As performance cycle rotates from team to team, the “organization” could have the equivalent payroll of $200M, but spread among 3-4 teams.
Heck, if the idea of moving the worst teams to the AL East to join the Red Sox and Yankees has merit, this might fly…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Mar 3, 2011 8:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’d call this group the Organization of Prospect Exporting Clubs.
by Ryan on Mar 3, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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