Transactions: Traded Aaron Laffey
by Ryan on Mar 4, 2011 5:07 AM EST
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Traded LHP Aaron Laffey to the Seattle Mariners for 2B Matt Lawson
Laffey's Indians career began with Cliff Lee's demotion in 2007, and it's ended four years later with the Mariners sending the Indians a player acquired for Cliff Lee.
When the Indians demoted Cliff in 2007, they brought up 22-year-old Laffey to take his place in the rotation. He would make nine starts, giving up 25 earned runs in 49.1 innings (4.56 ERA), certainly acceptable in place of what Lee had done. He would pitch 4.2 scoreless innings in the ALCS. It appeared that the next logical step was a spot towards the bottom of next year's rotation.
For the most part, that's what happened. Laffey was recalled at the end of April when Jake Westbrook went on the DL, and started off great, allowing only three earned runs in May (averaging almost 7 innings a start). He'd give up 8 runs to Texas (6-2-2008), then would reel off another four nice starts, but after that, he would struggle. After giving up 8 runs in 4.0 innings to the Angels in late August, he'd be optioned down to Buffalo. He wouldn't be brought back to Cleveland in September because of elbow inflammation.
But Laffey would be back with the Indians in 2009, losing a rotation battle to Scott Lewis but taking over for him after Lewis got hurt in his first start. He was one of the few decent starters in April, but because the bullpen was so bad, the Indians moved him there at the end of the month. He notched a three inning save on May 6th against the Red Sox, his first regular-season relief appearance. He would pitch well out of the bullpen, but had to go on the DL after straining an oblique in late May. He'd return after seven weeks on the DL, and by this time Laffey was needed more in the rotation. Aaron would pitch very well August, but ended the season badly (opposing batters hit .387/.446/.555 in his six September starts.
Laffey was in the bullpen again to start the 2010 season, and he remained there for two months, but was demoted in late May, brought back as a starter in late June, and was then placed on the DL in mid-July because of elbow inflammation. Laffey, who had thrown fast, was throwing his fastball noticeably slower, as you can see in the FanGraphs velocity chart:
Laffey would return in September, but by this time the Indians were no longer thinking of him as a starter. And so we come to today's deal.
I still don't think Laffey was handled right, especially when he was sent to the bullpen in early 2009 not because he was pitching poorly, but because the relievers weren't getting the job done. But perhaps Laffey wouldn't be durable enough to stand up to a 30-start season, and that's probably what the Indians were thinking as well. They didn't have to make a decision on him this season, as he still had an option year left, but he was going to well down on the depth chart, and it seemed inevitable that he'd be leaving one way or the other. If he would have survived the Durbin signing, there would have been another roster addition that would have done the trick.
Matt Lawson is a fringe prospect who has mainly played second base, which is a curious acquisition for a organization that has a mess of them in the high minors. The Indians could move him to the outfield, where they don't have as much depth, and with Grady Sizemore likely starting the season on the DL, he could start the season as a starter in Columbus. Lawson hit .293/.372/.439 last season between Frisco (TEX) and West Tennessee (SEA). He was a minor part of the deal that sent Cliff Lee from Seattle to Texas in the middle of last season, and was left off Seattle's roster even through he was eligible for the Rule 5 Draft. John Sickels didn't list Lawson as one of Seattle's top 20 prospects.
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Laffey’s Indians career begun with Cliff Lee’s demotion in 2007
I like how this post starts out in Arkansas-ese, in tribute to the Phifer.
John Sickels didn’t list Lawson as one of Seattle’s top 20 prospects.
Just for the record, he wasn’t included among BA’s top 30 prospects either.
by ken from alexandria on Mar 4, 2011 11:49 AM EST reply actions
Guys, being trade for Cliff Lee doesn’t mean that someone can actually play. You might want to Google the phrases “Lou Marson” “Jason Donald” and “Jason Knapp” if you need more information on that topic.
Lawson doesn’t draw enough walks, he strikes out a lot, doesn’t hit for average, doesn’t have a ton of power and doesn’t turn the DP well. Generally when a team tries a 24-year olld 2B in center and left (as Texas did, before trading him), it’s a sign that the player isn’t destined for glory.
I’m pleased the Indians made the deal, because I think Laffey deserves a parole from an organization that has shown absolutely no confidence in him at any point. (I went into this in more detail in a post on the M’s SB site).
But it’s a stupid trade for the Indians because it throws yet another “aging middle-infield prospect who pretty much blows” into a stew that already includes Jason Donald, Jason Kipnis, Jayson Nix and Cord Phelps. Toss Lonnie Chisenhall and Luis Valbuena into the mix and there’s no possibility of a depth chart that is comprehensible.
the trade is as much Laffey for Durbin as Laffey for Lawson. Lawson is just a body.
by APV on Mar 4, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you’re giving Shapinetti way too much credit here.
Also, if you’re picking up a body, why can’t it be a body that plays one of the corner positions, where the Indians are bereft of talent? The depth chart for “corner outfielders” includes names like John Drennen, Matt McBride and Tim Fedroff. Other than “Lurch” Weglarz, there isn’t one who could be mistaken for a power hitter.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
What am I giving Shapinetti credit for? Durbin is a more valuable pitcher than Laffey. Laffey has very little value. What do you expect us to get in return?
by APV on Mar 4, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
What do you expect us to get in return?
This. He’s an organizational player. Do they have anyone at 2B in Akron? Aaron Laffey was not going to net a major league starter-caliber left fielder. That Jon Drennan sucks isn’t going to improve their return.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 4, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, Knapp can’t pitch? That’s the first I’ve heard of that.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 4, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Knapp has been playing professional baseball for three seasons and has had arm injuries in two of them. He’s been healthy enough to pitch a total of 156 innings. I’d define that as “can’t pitch”, but I also wrote off Adam Miller after 2008, so your mileage may vary.
Jason Donald was born on September 8, 1984. He is older than (to name only those players born later in the same year) Matt Cain, Matt Kemp, Ricky Romero, Troy Tulowitzki, Ryan Zimmerman and Joel Zumaya. The complete list of players born in the year is here.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Look, we’re all familiar with Knapp’s injury history and the low ceilings of Donald and Marson (although Donald’s pretty short, so good for him). I didn’t like either 2009 trade when they happened, and I haven’t changed my opinion much since, though Carrasco has grown on me.
But what’s mystifying everyone is your quest to tear down this image of Lawson as some sort of major league piece. No one thinks that’s what he is. You’re insulting our intelligence by suggesting we think we’ve hoodwinked the Mariners again. And that pisses us off.
Here’s what this trade is: it’s a trade of a fringe major league pitcher whose fastball was in the mid-80s last year, for a guy who’s going to play 2B in Akron and has a low but non-trivial chance at being a backup infielder long enough to earn a pension. And it was precipitated by the team signing a better pitcher, being confronted with a roster crunch, and having to trade said fringe major leaguer. What on God’s green earth are we arguing about? You’re worse than a lawyer.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 4, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
You must have missed this. That’s a verboten slur now.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 7, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking about this the whole time I was having my conversation with him last year. Usually the athletes are the ones who feint interest and weasel their way out of talking to fans, but it was more the other way around if anything. I think he’s lonely.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
Generally when a team tries a 24-year olld 2B in center and left (as Texas did, before trading him), it’s a sign that the player isn’t destined for glory.
Hank Aaron, Pete Rose, Harmon Killebrew?
What part of the word “trade” is not clear to you?
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’m smiling while I read this because I’m thinking back to the conversation that took place a few days back about people entering the site with their own “heavy hand”.
I would enjoy adminstering a good response to this nonsense but I don’t feel it is my place here yet. However I still look forward to seeing it happen.
First, a four-paragraph comment hardly qualifies as a “heavy hand.” Second, the amount of time anyone has spent posting on a forum has absolutely no correlation to whether they know what they’re talking about.
If you believe you have something of value to contribute, speak. If not, don’t clutter the discussion with meta-comments.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I like how you’re jumping right into the moderator role, offering advice on what to do and not to do.
You will find, in fact, that there is significant correlation, here, between how long a poster has been here and how solid their knowledge and thinking are. Not perfect correlation, not even close, but definitely some correlation.
If you can hack it here, you may even find yourself realizing that you — yes, even you — are gaining in knowledge and insight from your time here.
If you can hack it here.
Pretty sure he’s already been a hack here
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 5, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exeunt all but BECKMAN
BECKMAN
O that this too too sullied site would melt,
Thaw and resolve itself to ale,
Or that the Moderators had not fix’d
Its canons against my bluster. O Shap! O Netti!
How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable
Seem to me all the second-basemen in your world!
Fie on it, and fie on this meta-strewn garden
That grows odradek and kilbane; things rank to nature.
Should it come to this? Two days traded,
So excellent a pitcher, deserving of prospects,
Yet receiving none here. Civility, thy name is
Beckman—
A beast that wants discourse of reason.
But my words here cannot come to good,
And I must hold my tongue.
Enter FWEMBT, JAY, WESTBROOK and WOODSMEISTER.
ALL
Hail to your lordship!
BECKMAN
Now you’re talking!
by YoDaddyWags on Mar 5, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
I’ve got to admit, everyone is doing a great job here, above and beyond the call of duty even.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Mar 5, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
What part of the word “tries” is not clear to you?
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
I was taking exception with your claim that moving a 24-year-old second baseman to the outfield is a sign that said player isn’t destined for glory. Three players who were indeed destined for glory made such a move, albeit at different ages. (I’m sure I could come up with more if I were to give it any thought.) When a team tries such a move, it is an indication that the player has a good bat.
What does trading have to do with this?
What’s your handle on cleveland.com?
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
reply fail.
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
That would be a good handle.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
by USSChoo on Mar 4, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You’re assuming (“Lawson is just a body”) that they don’t perceive Lawson as a contender for the second base spot, or for some other spot on the major league roster.
I don’t agree. This deal wasn’t made for a PTBNL or someone who plays another position— but a guy who plays a spot that the Indians consider to be oen of their few weaknesses.
And sure, enough, he’re the bottom in the relationship talking about the player:
“He’s a versatile guy,” said Antonetti. "Good defender at second base. Blue collar, grinder. Plays the game the right way. We think he has a chance to be a major league player at some point.
They also said he’s likely to start the season in Akron. And he’s not on the 40-man roster, which right now, is his best trait.
by APV on Mar 4, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
There are three issues here:
1. Was it a good idea to remove Aaron Laffey from the 40-man roster, since the Indians had completely lost confidence in him?
2. Was it a good idea to add Lawson to a farm system that is already cluttered with marginal prospects?
3, Was it desirable for a 69-93 team to sign Chad Durbin to a contract?
I would say the answers (respectively) are “yes”, “no” and “no”.
The questions are not interrelated in any way. You can feel that Durbin was a great signing, that it was smart to dispatch Laffey (not to mention kind to him) and still think it was idiotic to add Lawson to a stew of grade "C’ prospects.
The Indians do a miserable job of making decisions on prospects. They can’t bring themselves to try young players in the majors until circumstances force their hand, but they also won’t move anyone out to clear paths for younger guys. Worst of all, they constantly snap up players who do nothing but clog the talent arteries.
This leads to talk about Luis Valbuena as the utility infielder in the majors and Cord Phelps or Jared Goedert splitting time at DH in Columbus.
If I had to choose between Lawson and Karexon Sanchez in Akron, I’d pick Sanchez. But because they now have Lawson, they can’t make that decision now.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
2. Is this strictly the positional thing? Or would you have preferred cash?
3. Why not? Teams always need relief pitching, and at $1 million, why shake your fist at an effective guy? Don’t tell me you’re actually concerend about blocking relief “prospects.” They throw two pitches and appear at an inning at time. It’s not like they need years to perfect their craft, and 95% have a short shelf life as it is.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 4, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Durbin will be traded by June, I predict, and the hottest relief prospect du jour will see some time on Cleveland, So I agree with you and quibble only to the extent we risk a half million, instead of a million. And that makes this “trade” even more marginally minor.
Having said that, I think we all (emotionally) would like to see real prospects getting all the opportunities, all of the time, instead of filler like Lawson getting in the way. But sometimes we don’t have the right guy for the spot or the prospects, inconveniently, aren’t ready, and it would do more harm than good to rush them, or maybe the business side of promotion management gets in the way of promoting hot young catchers to the majors. Or something. In other words, I sympathize with some of Beckman’s POV and I appreciate his passion, but it is outsized and misplaced when directed at this really marginal deal.
by MTF on Mar 7, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
… but they also won’t move anyone out to clear paths for younger guys.
Free Jordan Brown!
If I had to choose between Lawson and Karexon Sanchez in Akron, I’d pick Sanchez. But because they now have Lawson, they can’t make that decision now.
Damn crying shame you’re not running the Indians then
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 5, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
…a spot that the Indians consider to be oen of their few weaknesses.
Along with first base, third base and left and center field.
The key phrase here is “that the Indians consider.”
I would consider left field to be a gaping hole, but I know what the standard recovery and rehab time from microfracture surgery is. The Indians, who once said they felt Jake Westbrook could need less than a year to come back from Tommy John surgery, really seem to believe that Grady Sizemore will play 140 games at peak effectiveness.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
No one knows the standard recovery time for mxfracture, it’s quite new in the field of surgery. Some people are back playing inside six months.
Apparently your post was truncated before you could include a list of professional athletes who returned to full effectiveness within 10 months.
by Geoff Beckman on Mar 4, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not going to sit here and tell you why your points are stupid, but read this:
http://www.letsgotribe.com/2011/2/22/2008640/news-that-grady-sizemore-has-not-yet-been-cleared-for-baseball#59816226
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
SSS. Microfracture is in the comparative Spring Training of it’s usage. I’ll wait and see on Grady rather than just write him off. Some people bounce back from it quickly, some don’t.
Peak offensiveness suggests gold glove caliber center field and a threat on the basepaths. He most likely won’t accomplish either of those, but in left field he needs less range and they didn’t surgically remove his instincts. He can also hit for power, which he may do more often if not he’s being counted on for a single and a steal. I understand being disappointed in the teams performance, but you’re just a black hole of pessimism. It’s March, if there is any point in the season where an Indians fan can be optimistic, this is it.
How do you know Sizemore can hit for power? I’d say concerns about him are realistic, not pessimistic. And why must realism stand down just because it’s March?
Has hit for power. I like being optimistic in March. It gives me an excuse to drink in July,
by c9kay32 on Mar 4, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Doesn’t that just cut down the drinking opportunities in March?
by odradek on Mar 4, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Peak Offensiveness would be a good handle for cleveland.com
"Magic would be getting productivity out of Crowe or Valbuena. I’ll admit we could use a little luck, but that’s not the same thing." - Jay
On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
I don’t think the Indians would privately acknowledge they expect anything from Sizemore before July. Hence Travis Buck, and hence Trevor Crowe still standing. I would also think they consider first base a concern, hence the signing of Nick Johnson. As for third base, I think the team just acknowledged they are going to suck this year anyway, so why not just hope for rain until Chisenhall can arrive?
The Indians make a lot of outlandish and implausible statements about injuries, for a variety of reasons (marketing, say, or to keep the Tigers from knowing that Travis Hafner can’t play four games in a row). I’m not so sure they actually believe what they’re saying.
A fair number of fans do, even smart ones, but that’s because they want to believe it.
Are you really under the assumption that you are more well informed on the expectations and recovery time of a professional athlete post-microfracture surgery than a multi-million dollar company that has paid 10’s of millions of dollars for the player that just underwent it? If so, I want what you’re smoking.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
The Indians, who once said they felt Jake Westbrook could need less than a year to come back from Tommy John surgery
I don’t remember anyone from the Indians ever saying that. Or that Grady Sizemore will be 100% (ie, playing at 2008 levels) from the beginning of the season. Hyperbole is not a good way to make your actual point, which I’m somewhat sympathetic to.
I vaguely recall there being talk of Westbrook coming back unrealistically early. And then came the regularly scheduled setback. Didn’t he even throw a bit and have to shut it down?
but I know what the standard recovery and rehab time from microfracture surgery is
Really? Pray tell, what is the “standard recovery and rehab time” and which “standard” microfracture surgery are we discussing. The entire orthopedic community awaits with bated breath..
Our best players wear suits.
by mauichuck on Mar 7, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, so we traded a really bad pitcher for a guy who may or may not play in majors at some point. Who cares?
This is the bottom line. Mariners fans, as usual, looking too hard for ways to deify Jacky Z
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 5, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
You’re assuming ("Lawson is just a body") that they don’t perceive Lawson as a contender for the second base spot, or for some other spot on the major league roster.
I don’t agree. This deal wasn’t made for a PTBNL or someone who plays another position— but a guy who plays a spot that the Indians consider to be oen of their few weaknesses.
I think you’re way off base here. There is no way the Indians consider Lawson to be even their fourth choice to play second base this season.
“We think he has a chance to be a major league player at some point.”
He’s being polite. He doesn’t even say he has a chance to be a starter — or for that matter even a utility player. All he’s said here is
- he has a chance
- not a probability, but just “a chance”
- to be a major leaguer
- which means “called up to the majors”
Forgot to add, if Lawson is intended to shore up a depth problem at second base, it’s in Akron and Columbus, certainly not in Cleveland.
Which does have some value in that it doesn’t help the organizations young developing pitchers to have sub-optimal defense behind them.
Or to rush high-upside guys up a level too early.
by Jay on Mar 5, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Indians baseball: the soup can get lathery.
by YoDaddyWags on Mar 5, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
6. Part of the reason the Indians traded Aaron Laffey to Seattle was his lack of arm strength. He was throwing in the low 80s in camp. At the end of last season, he seldom topped 85 mph. They didn’t see him being able to beat out Jeanmar Gomez, Alex White, David Huff, Tomlin or any other candidates for a spot in the rotation.
This was from Terry Pluto’s column in the PD today. Obviously it’s still spring training and all, but the point being the same as noted above, Laffey doesn’t have the room to start losing velocity on his pitches as he already was barely keeping it in the upper 80’s last season.
This is a great example of their being significant, hard data that doesn’t show up on B-Ref or get incorporated into any third-party projection system.
by Jay on Mar 6, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
isn’t it amazing how many typos you can find 1 minute after not seeing them?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Mar 6, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is. I used to delete and re-post, since I have that access, but I decided it’s more egalitarian for me to let all the typos hang out, like everyone else has to.
by Jay on Mar 6, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
“Am I not kind and generous? You will come to love me like a son loves a benevolent father or mentor.” You know who else talked like that? Try googling Xerxes.
These grammar mistakes pretty much blow. You’ve already gotten “their” wrong. Do you really expect to get “there” or “their” right at some point?
This would be the first time I’ve seen a drunk person recommend googling Xerxes.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Mar 9, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
In intrasquad games, he can get Jack Z’s hitters to think they’re actually major league caliber talents.
by JulioBernazard on Mar 6, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
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