Trivia - Doubles Defense

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 9:14 AM EDT

There have been eight men to hit 600+ doubles for a single franchise (reminder - the records for a franchise go with the team when it moves, so the Senators/Twins are a single franchise, as are the Expos/Nationals; the Athletics records include their stays in Philadelphia, Kansas City, and Oakland). You could form a full defensive lineup with those eight guys, and every one of them would be playing a position that he appeared at in at least 400 games in his career.

Name the player and his associated franchise for each position...

C - Craig Biggio - Astros - 668

1B - Stan Musial - Cardinals - 725

2B - Pete Rose - Reds - 601

SS - Cal Ripken - Orioles - 603

3B - George Brett - Royals - 665

RF - Hank Aaron - Braves - 600

CF - Ty Cobb - Tigers - 665

LF - Carl Yastrzemski - Red Sox - 646

That leaves us shy a DH, so question number two will handle these one-dimensional guys. There have been 25 players who have appeared in at least 500 games as a DH. 20 out of 25 played at least 500 games at some other single position (to clarify, 300 GP in RF and 300 GP in LF wouldn't count, but 500 GP in RF would...), so they weren't truly one-dimensional. Who are the real bat-only five, and what defensive position did they most often attempt to play?

1. Travis Hafner - 72 games at 1B, 830+ at DH

2. David Ortiz - 248 games at 1B, 1282+ at DH

3. Hal McRae - 361 games in LF, 1427 at DH

4. Cliff Johnson - 189 games at 1B, 746 at DH

5. Oscar Gamble - 474 games in RF, 561 at DH

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Comments

So Craig Biggio is the catcher? Houston Astros.

by emd2k3 on Apr 15, 2011 10:23 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, 428 games at catcher. 668 2B for the Astros.

That’s the only position that’s a stretch, all of the others except one are largely associated with the position I have them at. The other played all over the place.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Strictly a guess… would see Ty Cobb for CF

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions

Correct. Cobb had 665 doubles for the Tigers.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Anf for DH, the two easy guesses are Harold Baines and Edgar Martinez.

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions

and I think Baines would be 1B, while Martinez would be 3B.

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Baines and Martinez both had more than 500 gp at another position. Baines actually had over 1000 games in right field, despite being the leader in DH games at 1644. Martinez is third in DH games, but managed to get over 500 at 3B (563).

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Hafner, right? 1B.

Professional Lurker. Non-Baseball Posting Specialist.

by fingolfin on Apr 15, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions

Yes. Travis is the DHiest of the DHs. Never has a glove been such a useless appendage, except maybe for pinch runner Herb Washington. When Travis went in to get his appendix removed, they grafted a fielders glove into his abdomen as a replacement and gave him the appendix to play with instead.

He has only played 72 games at 1B, compared to 830 and counting at DH.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

would Ortiz (BOS) be another?

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions

Yes, David Ortiz has only played 248 games at 1B,compared to 1282 at DH, and none at any other defensive position.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Bad Henry, Braves, in RF.

by YoDaddyWags on Apr 15, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions

Yes, 600 doubles for Aaron as a member of the Braves, and over 2100 games in right.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions

How about Yaz in left?

by YoDaddyWags on Apr 15, 2011 11:14 AM EDT reply actions

Got it. He had 646 doubles as a member of the Red Sox, and 1913 games in left field.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Ripken – SS
Brett – 3B
Musial – 1B, LF, RF or P
Yaz – LF

by FredOx on Apr 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT reply actions

Ripken is your shortstop with 603 doubles, Brett is at third with 665. Musial is the 1B – he played 1016 games there (and almost 1900 in the outfield). He is also the single franchise doubles leader with 725.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow. Is it bad that I had no idea Musial played first?

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 15, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Gehringer at second?

by YoDaddyWags on Apr 15, 2011 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

Not enough doubles. Rose had more than 600 for the Reds, but just barely.

by FredOx on Apr 15, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

If you’re putting Biggio at C, your only choice for 2B is, I suppose, Pete Rose.

by FredOx on Apr 15, 2011 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

That’s right. Rose played 628 games at 2B, 939 at 1B, 634 at 3B, 590 in RF, 673 in LF, and 73 in CF.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Didn’t think he got there with the Reds. But I see you’re correct.

by YoDaddyWags on Apr 15, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions

For the DH question, Hal McRae probably qualifies because he moved around the diamond a bit. What about Cliff Johnson? For Cleveland, he played a total of 2 innings as a non-DH.

by FredOx on Apr 15, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions

Both right, so there is only one guy left.

Johnson had 746 games as a DH, and 189 at 1B.

McRae had 1427 as a DH, and 361 in LF.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Is there a site that easily gives you the number of games played by a player at each position?

by Matt Y. on Apr 15, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions

It’s on the players Baseball-Reference.com page, in the defense section. It lists the totals for each position at the bottom of the grid. It doesn’t include the total DH games though it lists year-by-year totals in the grid. I’m getting by numbers from the Lahman database.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions

was going to guess Gamble, but I don’t think he got more than 500 games at DH.

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions

and Ken Phelps didn’t quite get there either.

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

You would have been right with Gamble - 561 games as a DH, 474 as RF.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I only can find 418 games with him at DH:

112-1974, 21-1975, 1-1976, 72-1977, 31-1979, 10-1980, 20-1981, 62-1982, 19-1983, 27-1984, 43-1985.

by talonk on Apr 15, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It looks like the database and B-Ref are handling something differently. I suspect that the database may be counting some pinch-hitting appearances as DH appearances..

But Gamble’s 1973 looks odd on B-Ref. 113 games, 432 plate appearances, but only 37 games in the outfield and 0 at DH or anywhere else? That can’t be right. I’ll check the lineups.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Apr 15, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions