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Around SBN: Cowboys Draft 2012: The Big Board Version 3.0

When hope starts becoming reality

Following the Tribe's opening series loss to the Chicago White Sox, I wrote a rambling piece about hope as a Tribe fan. The piece was more emotional than analytical, however, and did not really give any guide as to what we might expect and where, specifically, we could hope for improvements on the field. Since that piece the Indians have gone 24-11 and have consistently played some of the best baseball in the league. The hope I talked about in that piece has begun turning into reality on a number of fronts.

During the offseason, I did write a series of pieces that tried to lay out positive indicators for the Indian's young players, including LaPorta, Brantley, Santana, Carrasco and Masterson. If the Indians were going to be good this season, I saw these five guys as essential parts of a winning future in Cleveland. While not everyone is where we would like them to be, the group has not disappointed.

Matt LaPorta (.274/.354/.487, 142 OPS+)

One of the failings I brought for LaPorta was his inability to handle the inside of the plate, his struggles on off-speed pitches, and his subsequent total absence of hitting ability to the opposite field. Last season he hit an astoundingly bad .114 on balls to right field, his lone extra-base hit being a freak triple.  So far this season he has hit .389 on balls to right, including three doubles and a HR. LaPorta is still a pull hitter, but he seems to have corrected the hole in his swing that left him so vulnerable prior to this year. This is all despite the fact that LaPorta is seeing fewer fastballs than any point in the past (down from 55% last season to 45% this season). LaPorta is still struggling with offspeed pitches, but it is hard to argue with the huge improvements to his performance at the plate. Also, despite fangraphs' defensive numbers, LaPorta has looked quite agile at first.

Michael Brantley (.304/.383/.437, 138 OPS+)

Without meaning to sound too arrogant, I think I did a pretty great job of nailing Brantley's keys to success. Here are the positive indicators I listed for Brantley and what he has done so far this year.

  • Increased BB-rate (>10%)    2011: 11.0%
  • Lower IFFB% (<10%)    2011: 5.7%
  • Increased ISO (>.125)    2011: .133
  • Better contact rate/contact outcome ratio.    2011: This is hard to put into a single number, but Brantley's production on balls in play is considerably up from last season. Particularly on his fly balls...
  • Better production on fly balls (OPS > .450)  2011: 1.000, this is up from .295 a year ago. Brantley still puts the ball on the ground a high percentage of the time, but this might be the single most encouraging number Brantley has put up so far this season.
  • Excellent base-running (SB:CS >5:1)  2011: 5:2 so far...can't win them all
  • More doubles and triples (>20% of his hits, >7.5% of his balls in play) 2011: 24.5% of his hits for extra-bases
  • Above average reviews/measures of his defense  2011: who knows what the numbers mean, but I for one think his reads on balls both in center and left looks considerably improved.

Brantley is starting to look like a legitimate starter, and at just 24, he could become much better. I still think watching his production on balls in play will be the biggest indicator of Brantley's potential ceiling.

Justin Masterson (2.73 ERA, 2.85 FIP, 6.8 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 58.4 GB%)

The keys for Masterson that I identified were focused on Justin's control and performance against lefthanders.

Star-divide

I suggested he needed to work ahead in the count more frequently, beginning with a higher percentage of first-pitch strikes (up slightly to 56%). I suggested Masterson should either abandon the changeup, a pitch Masterson used last year mostly against lefties, but with little success, or improve its effectiveness. He has done the former, throwing only a handful all season, instead using almost exclusively his fastball (77.5%) and slider (21.5%). The reason for the changeup, of course, was Masterson's noted struggles against lefties. Last season Masterson's spread between RHH and LHH in FIP, xFIP, BB% and K% were huge. Not surprisingly, I suggested these numbers needed to improve for Masterson to transition into a viable starter. This season Masterson is striking out and walking righties and lefties at an equal rate. While lefthanders are still making considerably better contact than righties (.394/.194 BABIP, 24.2/3.4 LD%), the performance of the two are much more in line (3.07/.2.61 FIP, 3.57/3.31 xFIP). Masterson's strikeouts against righties and groundball numbers have actually declined somewhat from last season, suggesting a possibility of improvements to come. His effectiveness against lefthanders is still key, of course.

Carlos Carrasco (5.29 ERA, 3.37 FIP, 5.3 K/9, 3.4 BB/9, 43.9 GB%)

Carrasco's performance to date has been more uneven than those listed above. Interestingly, the two things I mentioned first as positive indicators for Carrasco (fewer HRs on fly balls and increased effectiveness of his fastball) have both come to pass (HR/FB from 15.8% to 2.8%). However, the third indicator I gave for Carrasco, maintenance of his strong strikeout and walk peripherals, has not come to pass. Carrasco's control has abandoned him periodically, an issue that he needs to correct if he is going to stay in Cleveland.

Carlos Santana (.222/.357/.389, 117 OPS+)

The other Carlos has also struggled at times. For Santana the problem has been making contact and making solid contact. Rather than improve, his power has dropped considerably this year, as has his effectiveness on balls in play. On the bright side, he has been better over the past month (.241/.400/.468), although the low batting average in this case is still indicative of his occasional weak contact. Santana is seeing more fastballs this year and thus far, has struggled to consistently square up on them. My other comments for Santana regarded his defense, and all signs point to pretty positive results in that area of his game.

Obviously the above five have played important roles in the Indian's turnaround, but they are far from a complete story. In my piece on "where the wins come from" I pointed out that the single biggest factor that could help the 2011 team was a return to health and performance from Asdrubal Cabrera and Grady Sizemore. Sizemore's current DL stint is alarming, but while he has played, he has hit the ball better than just about any stretch in his career, putting up a 1.3 WAR in only 18 games. I still have a goal for Sizemore to appear in 100 games this season, a number that would make him a key contributor to the team. Asdrubal Cabrera has arguably been the team MVP thus far, with his 1.2 WAR only trailing Sizemore and Masterson. The return of a very Pronk-like Travis Hafner (1.0 WAR, 171 OPS+) has been a key addition, as well.

The other key so far this season has been the peripheral performances from fifth-starter (ha!) Josh Tomlin, bullpen guys like Pestano, Sipp and Perez, and performances off the bench from Marson, Duncan and company. And Jack Hannahan. These performances, I think, are a reflection of the Indians organizational depth at its top levels. This is again something I wrote about in the offseason, and something that will continue to be important going forward in the season. If Hannahan comes back to earth, it is nice that Lonnie Chisenhall is on the doorstep. If Talbot or Carrasco continue to flail, Alex White is already looking pretty comfortable in a Cleveland uniform. If Orlando Cabrera stops getting all those key hits or Adam Everett shows his age, it lines up nicely to have Jason Kipnis and Cord Phelps in Columbus. Even if Shelley Duncan begins to flail in his role as a right-handed bat off the bench, we conveniently have Jared Goedert lying in wait. This is the value of depth and a reflection of the real talent that the Indians system have right now.

Ups and downs are an inevitable reality going forward, but the Indian's strong performance may be reality as well. The Indians appear to be taking real steps towards being, and not just becoming, a playoff team. Nearly every major national media outlet and baseball blog have fallen over themselves in an attempt to explain, account for, and project the Indian's success. I think they have all underestimated the reality of what Cleveland is doing right now. And that reality exists in more than just the major's best record and best run differential, it also exists in the individual performances of young players and returning to health veterans.

Comment 103 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Comments

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Very nice piece. It has been nice to see those guys that you mentioned preform to the levels (for the most part) that you and the rest of us think they can.

With that being said, the stampede that is the Detroit Tigers concerns me greatly. I still don’t know if the Tribe can hold them off. And my gut is telling me that this “run” that the Tribe is on could end at any moment. Obviously, I hope they keep things going, but I would like to see them keeping this pace into late July, as that is what I think it is going to take.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Tigers have no depth. It will cost them

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I sure hope so.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, this was well done. No, the Tigers are not a “stampede.” I don’t know if the Indians will hang on to first place for the entire season, but if they don’t, I know it won’t be because the Tigers just run away and hide. One thing they’ll have in their favor – whatever pieces they lack, Dombrowski will do everything to fill. And they’ll probably come in the form of a trade that we’ll laugh at.

My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.

by Ockus_NYC on May 17, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, when their owner Illich said he would “spend whatever takes” I became really concerned. Dombrowski is one of the best (top 2 or 3) GM’s in all of baseball.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, some of those contracts suggest otherwise

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would rank him in the bottom half.

by Roger Dorn on May 17, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This, definitely this.

Fear the Fedora.

by MooneysRebellion on May 17, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you’d rank him ahead of Dayton Moore, right?

Our best players wear suits.

by mauichuck on May 17, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but when you can afford those contracts it is a different story. The Tigers can afford to give out deals like that and have a couple of them miss, if it allows them to get other players. (See Miggy Cab and Willis).

The Tribe on the other hand…can’t do that.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that doesn’t make him a good GM, it makes him a rich GM.

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that I’m necessarily calling him a good GM, but is that not exactly what he should be doing? If you can afford it, it makes perfect sense to hand out contracts like that. It’s the right thing to do. He would be a bad GM if he didn’t take advantage of his money.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 17, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes but the theory is that a good GM would have far more hits than misses, particularly when he is blessed with the resources to choose among practically every free agent and money-based trade in the league.

by jakesinger777 on May 17, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think Dombrowski has more misses than hits? He had a very good run with the Marlins as well. Two World Series teams (though he was there for one).

Dombrowski is fantastic when it comes to drafts. But that has a lot to do with the fact that he is willing to pay the players that teams pass on because they want too much money. Jacob Turner…etc.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that money (when used properly) can really be reflected in your farm systems. Rather than blowing your wad on a bunch of aging free agents, try buying talent in the draft, signing the big names there, stocking a farm system, and then flip those prospects for talents with UPSIDE, signing them to an extension after. It’s the counterpoint to how those scumbags in NY and Boston do business.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on May 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. And that is exactly what Dombrowski does well. Drafting. Their farm system isn’t really all that great (mostly due to MLB trades) but their top level talent is pretty dang good.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forgive me for being unimpressed, but don’t they have one playoff appearance with a high payroll in the past how many years?

by Roger Dorn on May 17, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since Leyland took over in 2006. Yes.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, how impressive is it really to take Boras-type guys who fell because of exhorbitant signing bonus demands and paying them massively over-slot? I feel like every year the Tigers pick at least a handful of guys like that.

by jakesinger777 on May 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry – looks like you mentioned this above. And I don’t fault him for spending tons of money. I just don’t see how that makes him a great GM. If you buy every greedy bastard who falls because of it you’re bound to hit on a star.

In fact, ,maybe the existence of teams like Detrot make this whole system possible. If no teams were willing to pay huge bonuses over-slot, there would be no basis for demanding them. Just a side thought.

by jakesinger777 on May 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point is that it doesn’t make him a bad GM, which seemed to be the implication. He’s doing exactly what you’re supposed to do given his situation. He may not be getting great results, but if we’re assuming money isn’t an issue, it isn’t like he’s made any moves that could have been criticized without the benefit of hindsight.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 17, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don’t know about that. pretty easy to criticize long term deals to revilers. pretty easy to criticize re-upping players under control for no reason.

by Brick. on May 17, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the Willis deal. That was a trainwreck from the beginning.

by clefan on May 17, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was a bad one from the word “go.” But for the Tigers at the time who were lacking pitchers (they were in the minors or yet to be acquired via trades) it was worth the risk. Overpaid though no question.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why was it worth the risk, when he was under club control for two more seasons anyway?

by Jay on May 18, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just because you have money doesn’t mean you have a responsibility to spend it indiscriminately. If you are spending just because you can, I don’t really see how that is “what you’re supposed to do” given his owner’s money.

by jakesinger777 on May 17, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point isn’t to spend indiscriminately, that’s a mischaracterization of what I’m saying. I’m saying if you’re given the money, you should use it. We talk all the time about the reasons having a bigger budget is an advantage, and this is a big one. You can afford to spen a lot on high risk/reward contracts.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 18, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. But I just think that Dombrowski hits on a lot more of those guys in the draft than say NY or BOS or NYM does/do.

As to your second paragraph, interesting concept to ponder.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually agree that Dombrowski has had some success with those first-round over-slot guys, but just because he’s better at that one thing than Cashman or Epstein doesn’t make him a Top 3 GM.

He’s had very minimal success in Detroit given his resources.

by Jay on May 18, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know, Boston and NY seem to be doing fine using their current strategy.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 17, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why other teams should take a different strategy.

by jds16 on May 17, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t follow you.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 18, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boston and NY are the masters of their evil strategy. Directly competing with them for the Sabathias or Crawfords is going to be a losing proposition (hint: if you’re betting against those two teams, yours is the short stack), so if you’re the GM of any other team then you need a different strategy if your plan is to win.

by jds16 on May 18, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dombrowski has been in win-now mode in Detroit for several years now. Mike Ilitch is 81 years old, has more money than he needs, and is not at all worried about losing money with the Tigers. Ilitch wants to win a championship while he’s still around to enjoy it. While Detroit has a boatload of bad contracts, they also have an owner who, frankly, does not care about how bad the contracts are.

"I’ll happily embrace elevated hopes if that is the price to pay." - APV

On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff

by woodsmeister on May 17, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly. I sort of touched on that above.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, the Wings are out of the playoffs, too, so Illitch is down a basket for all those eggs.

by ameliorate on May 18, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that doesn’t make Dombrowski any smarter/better. If Dolan told Shapiro that he’s willing to lose money while giving out 150 million dollar contracts, we’d just still have Sabathia and, at best, the same amount of wins.

by 7foot3 on May 17, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’d probably not have lost anyone. We’d have the same amount of wins, but we’d feel better about it.

The Once and Future King
Editor at Alligator Army

by FlaGators on May 17, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know, I feel pretty damn good about it right now. Maybe ESPN would feel better about it.

by ahowie on May 17, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice start to 2011

I can imagine some here at LetsGoTribe may be expecting the bubble to burst at some point, but I know good baseball when I see it. Congrats to a good run. Stay healthy and who knows where y’all can go. BTW, Masterson (barring his last start) has been good for my fantasy team…lol.
Lache pas la patate, Tribe. Bonne chance!

"People ask what I do in the Winter when there is no baseball. I stare out the window and wait for Spring." -- Rogers Horsby

by CajunCavern on May 17, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

APV, I’ve enjoyed your postings immensely all season (many here know your real name. Alas, I don’t). You not only illuminate the facts that help explain our improbable 25-13 start, but in posts past you have captured and somehow translated into words the emotions that are unique to the abused fans of this team that has (necessarily) been cruelly dismantled and rebuilt far too often and too frequently. Going into this season, I, for one, felt certain that few of our “future stars” obtained in the most recent dismantlings would ever amount to much, but then what would anyone expect of the star-crossed Cleveland Indians? Sigh. You wrote earlier of Hope, going into this season I had none.

But, I was wrong, blinded by the gut-wrenching disappointments of the past three seasons. I now see that our baby Indians are growing up to be stalwart players. Are we real? Yes(!), and that’s because in retrospect we were never as bad as we played last year and the year before.

Thanks for your much appreciated posts here, sir.

by LeftyCatcher on May 17, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Also, thanks. But didn’t we meet once at a Nats-Indians game in DC? Or am I thinking of someone else…

by APV on May 17, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup, that was me. Not sure why I didn’t make the connection.

by LeftyCatcher on May 17, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he was stand-off-ish. He didn’t want to meet the weird Internet people.

by Jay on May 18, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe I’m just a stand off-ish guy

by APV on May 18, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe if Adam had APV tattooed on his forehead I might have remembered. Or maybe not, given the ravages of age (and too many losing seasons).

by LeftyCatcher on May 19, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adam – this is great, as usual. But I can’t help but wonder: Santana is seeing more fastballs this year? Seems like, observationally, he is seeing all breaking balls, and particularly in fastball counts. Off balance, bad contact, sitting fastball. I guess I’m not seeing it, eh?

by tabler84 on May 17, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

According to fangraphs his FB% is up from 48 to 52…still low relative to league averages.

by APV on May 17, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, okay. I’m not sure I’d characterize it the way you did, given the mild rise in FB% and the fact that it’s still low. He hits fastballs well enough that I’d just have him sit hook every pitch for a month to see what happens.

by tabler84 on May 17, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

bottom line, you need to get to where you can pick up 4% observationally spread across two months.

by Brick. on May 17, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

hah

"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady

by westbrook on May 17, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, “journalist.”

by Jay on May 18, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The worrying thing is that he seems inable to consistently turn on inside pitches

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Benoit disagrees

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on May 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did expect the younger players to improve. But I never expected Travis Hafner’s bat to come back. I really thought he was through.

by JamesPowell on May 17, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

you could have made good money betting on his current line

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s always been a good contact hitter.

by emd2k3 on May 19, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec’d for both the excellent follow-up, and for the original pieces, which were consistently better than anything I read in the mainstream press regarding the Indians. Thank you for your reliably entertaining and insightful writing.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 17, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Guys, he’s gonna get a big head.

by jakesinger777 on May 17, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no. That is really going to accentuate my increasing baldness.

by APV on May 17, 2011 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

meaning to sound too arrogant

by Brick. on May 17, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

consistently better than anything I read in the mainstream press regarding the Indians.

That’s what Let’s Go Tribe is all about. It could be the tagline for the site.

by JamesPowell on May 17, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find it interesting that these PD writers (not including Terry Pluto) know less than some fans.

by emily522 on May 17, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beat reporters are the voice of the fans and to the fans, yes, but they’re that voice more for casual fans. Niches don’t sell newspapers, and die-hard fandom is a niche. Right or wrong, the typical PD subscriber can’t speak the language that is spoken on sites like these. The argument could be it’s a reporter’s responsibility to get more people speaking that language, but most newspapers have hesistated to go in that direction regarding baseball. I don’t think it speaks ill of Hoynes and the like.

by jefftribe on May 17, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree and I have the embarassing emails from Hoynes to prove it. He does not get it, any of it, at all.

by stuart dean on May 17, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll defer to your personal experiences, then. I guess I don’t read him enough to know. (Chuckle)

by jefftribe on May 17, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I sit here at OU in a Sportswriting class and read quality beat writers for other teams (Susan Slusser for the A’s, for example), it eats at me even more how much I want Hoynes’s job.

by ameliorate on May 18, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s no reason you can’t go out and get it, or one better.

by YoDaddyWags on May 18, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would never be so elitist. I am thrilled to encounter anyone that has a passion for the Indians or baseball in general. If their opinions are ill-informed on certain topics, you can always find common ground on other things to talk about.

Being a fan isn’t a competition, it’s supposed to be something to bond over.

by Toxicadam on May 18, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

stuart dean has no use for anyone who is not on the “screw Hoynes” bandwagon.

by Jay on May 18, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should confine my pissiness to the carrier…

"(We) did not generally despise those trades. We despised being in the position where we had to make them" -Jay

by stuart dean on May 18, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well taken.
Please amend my point to include an “in the extreme” here or there.

by stuart dean on May 18, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Atom mention here. (free article)

by stuart dean on May 17, 2011 5:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Hope springs eternal

We all know how hope is sometimes all us Indians fans have. I can’t think of how many times I’ve told people “it’s all going to come together this year”; finally it is enlightening to see it happening this year. Like you said the combination of the young players – acquired through trades we once despised but are now looking to bear fruit (including Asdrubal and Shoo, both acquired from the Mariners) – plus the veterans picking it up is producing wins. Even if we fall a bit, this season speaks volumes about the Tribe’s future. That said I want to win it all this year. Has the time come to start talking about acquiring a #1 or #2 starter to complement Fausto and Masterson for a first round series against the B-grade actresses from chowdaville?

by AlkiTribesman on May 17, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Has the time come to start talking about acquiring a #1 or #2 starter to complement Fausto and Masterson for a first round series against the B-grade actresses from chowdaville?

No. We’re not in the place now where we can start offloading minor leaguers, acquiring salary, and generally acting like we did in the mid 90s. It’s not even Memorial Day yet. If this team wins, it wins. If not, the pieces are in place for us to be patient.

by Brad D on May 17, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

which of these trades did we despise?

by Gradyforpresident on May 17, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, let’s not lump everyone into the “we” of sharing that short-sighted opinion.

by Brick. on May 17, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I was thinking of the negative reaction towards the Sabathia, Lee, and Martinez deals, at least amongst the fair-weather fans and subsequent hostility towards the Dolan’s and front office. I must remember I am not amongst fair-weather fans at Let’s Go Tribe!

Also not sure if anyone saw this but it speaks to the long-term vision of Acta and management: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/cleveland-indians-unveil-baseball-training-academy-in-dominican-republic/2011/05/16/AFCLbB5G_story.html

We got something good brewing!

by AlkiTribesman on May 17, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

You should also remember that we don’t use the subject line here.

Trombone/creamy/soda.

by Joel D on May 17, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look I take a back seat to no one when it comes to my admiration for Mr. Lee. But we had to make a deal for him. Keeping him – at that time – was not in the cards.

Our best players wear suits.

by mauichuck on May 17, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are not really hostile to the Dolan’s here either. “Dolan is CHEAP!” is only used in ironic mockery. You also might wish to mosey on over to more fertile sources of baseball info. The Washington Post doesn’t generally cut it around here. Just sayin’.

by Bogalusa Bomber on May 18, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have no problem admitting i despised cliff lee being traded for carrasco, donald, marson and knapp.

Show them Ohio's here.

by slidingscrapes on May 17, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude Carmona and Masterson are #1 and #2 starters – and maybe Tomlin too!! Why in the hell we would trade some of our papooses for something we already have?

Our best players wear suits.

by mauichuck on May 17, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because name recognition wins championships. Duh…

"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl

by world dictator on May 17, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s a bit more than that. 1) Depth never hurts, especially starting pitchers and 2) Tomlin, Talbot, and Masterson aren’t likely to maintain their current numbers – their xFIP are way off from their actual ERA. It almost never hurts to at least explore upgrading your #5 starter.

by callmrplow on May 18, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

The ERA is being helped by good defense. I see no reason why our defense should drop of dramatically at any point in the season barring a string of injuries.

by ahowie on May 18, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s going to drop off when we have to replace Hannahan because his offense falls to unacceptable levels.

by TKilbane on May 18, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

For all of Orlando’s problems with range, it doesn’t appear that Kipnis (if it is Kipnis) will be an improvement at second either.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 18, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

But might they bring up Phelps first? You also have to throw Donald into the equation when he’s healthy.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on May 18, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

They might, though I’m not sold on Phelps for some reason. Donald would definitely be ahead of both right now if he were available. And he’d be an upgrade over Grandpa defensively.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 18, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Phelps, but I have some reservations as well. Still, I can’t imagine a world where he’d be worse than OC has been.

by callmrplow on May 19, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly you didn’t see Valbuena play last year.

Our best players wear suits.

by mauichuck on May 19, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately I did. I guess I’m giving Phelps the benefit of the doubt because I was never a big Valbuena fan.

Still, is OC really that much better than Valbuena, especially when you consider defensive contributions? I guess it’s tough to quantify, but it feels like they’re pretty close.

by callmrplow on May 20, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a trade off I’m willing to make. Saving runs vs. creating them.

by emd2k3 on May 19, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That may well be the case, but how much of an influence has the defense had? According to UZR, the only positive player in the IF is Hannahan. I know defense is difficult to quantify, but I don’t think the xFIP difference is something we can entirely dismiss with the defense argument.

by callmrplow on May 18, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

The defensive performances at every position in the infield are at a higher level than they were a year ago, UZR numbers notwithstanding.

There are no trustworthy defensive metrics, and thus no data that can be relied upon to give an accurate gauge on the impact of defense on a pitching staff. All the FIELDf/x cameras being deployed this season could change that.

by YoDaddyWags on May 18, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, before everyone completely jumps on you, I’ll clue you in on something.

The commenters on this site did not generally despise those trades. We despised being in the position where we had to make them, but we had the foresight and understanding — even at the time the deals were made — that they were necessary. Our approval was not based on being surprised by a winning team two years later; we thought the deals made sense at the time.

Also, we don’t use the subject line.

Also, there is no major leaguer named “Shoo.”

Welcome to the site.

by Jay on May 18, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

(We) did not generally despise those trades. We despised being in the position where we had to make them

ding ding ding

"(We) did not generally despise those trades. We despised being in the position where we had to make them" -Jay

by stuart dean on May 18, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

READ THIS CATSROVINSE

by YoDaddyWags on May 18, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whew. I thought I had to change my name.

RALLY SIG

by USSChoo on May 18, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I am believing in this team, I will feel much more comfortable after the next 30 games or so. A huge run of games against some top competition. If we stay around .500 over those 30 games, I will be completely sold.

by talonk on May 18, 2011 2:10 AM EDT reply actions  

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