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Friday trivia fears no man

 

Hey.  You.  Are you afraid of the trivia?  Does it frighten you?  Does it make you weak in the spinal column, moist in the palm, and generally twitchy?  Does it intimidate you?  Then go no further.

Star-divide

 

There are all kinds of intimidation.  There is the intimidation of the sociopath, willing to do anything to bend you to his will.  You can intimidate with pure, dispassionate professionalism, a cool, steely resolve, ruthless toughness, or the simple ability to take a beating and keep on going.  Clearly, there is something intimidating about a group of large men who look like they have given serious thought to exactly how they are going to crush you, the sort of intimidation that leads to worried looks and damp trousers.  There is the intimidation of a strong-armed fellow hurling a leather-covered spheroid in the general direction of your torso or head from just over 60 feet away, or of a lunatic  with a piece of lumber sending that same object back towards you with ungodly force at an unsafe speed.

However you do it, the goal is the same.  You intimidate your opponent in order to get in their head and make them confront the possibility, nay, the inevitability of their defeat.  If you can get them trying not to lose rather than trying to win, you are more than half way to victory.

On the baseball field, intimidation is a routine part of the game.  In particular, it is viewed as a key weapon in the arsenal of the pitcher.  A pitcher who can intimidate the batter can take away a portion of the plate and change the hitter’s approach.  Baseball lore tells us that the manliest way to win is to go after a hitter with your best stuff, control the plate, and take no crap.  Deception and finesse give way to power and force.  In such a confrontation, the worst thing the pitcher can do is to allow a batter to hit a home run and get away with it.  The proper reaction to a home run, particularly if the batter did not look meek enough following the swing, is to plunk someone.

That’s where the idea for the intimidation index came from.  The theory is that the most intimidating pitcher is the one who takes the least crap – the one who hits batters but doesn’t give up too many home runs.

Of course, there is the other side of the bat, too.  For most of baseball history, the pitcher was batting, too.  So I decided to throw in those results.  Since the pitcher is only 1/9th of the lineup, I weighted his plate appearances (I used a factor of 10 for convenience).

So here is the intimidation index: (Hit Batsmen – Home Runs Allowed) + 10 * (Home Runs as batter – Hit by Pitch as batter)

A positive score means the pitcher is a tough guy, that he doesn’t take any crap from anyone, that he is the one dishing it out.  These guys are the bullies, the guys who belittle the opposition by knocking them down, hitting a home run, and getting away scot-free.  If they were nurses on a help line and you called in to ask what to do about some abrasions you had suffered, they would recommend you apply a paste of rubbing alcohol and salt.  If they were your parents and you cried as a child, they’d tell you to quiet down or they’d give you something to really cry about.  If they were tax auditors for the IRS, they would shake you down for a bribe and then have you audited even after you paid it.

Looking at the results for all pitchers with 1500+ innings pitched who debuted in 1950 or later, I was somewhat surprised to see that there was something to it.  There are only 8 guys with positive scores, and it includes a couple of the most intimidating pitchers of the last 60 years.

Who are the eight pitchers with a positive intimidation index (1500+ IP, debut 1950 or later)?

1. Carlos Zambrano (89-137) + 10* (22-0) = 172

2. Don Drysdale (154-280) + 10*(29-5) = 114

3. Earl Wilson (30-236) + 10*(35-5) = 94

4. Don Larsen (26-130) + 10*(14-0) = 36

5. Blue Moon Odom (36-103) + 10*(12-2) = 33

6. Gary Peters (62-157) + 10*(19-7) = 25

7. J.R. Richard (17-73) + 10*(10-2) = 24

8. Bob Gibson (102-257) + 10*(24-8) = 5

The meek may inherit the earth, but they had better be prepared to man up or these guys are going to take it from them about ten minutes later.

But the pitcher is not the only one who can intimidate.  Sometimes the batter is the intimidator.  This can result in an intentional walk.  While the strategic benefit of offering the batter a free base is debatable, I guess we can appreciate how it would ease the pitcher’s fevered mind, reducing the strain and tension of dealing with the fearsome batsman.  Besides, the guys who draw intentional walks are usually pretty good at drawing the unintentional walks, too, so it’s not like you were going to be able to get him out anyway, right?  Usually, but not always.  For a few of these guys, the intentional walk is like Homer winning at poker without knowing it – they’ve lucked into something they may not have deserved.  There have been eight seasons where a batter’s intentional walks have been 50% or more of his total walks {edit: AND he had at least 20 intentional walks}.  There has been one player to do it in each decade from the ‘60’s  to the ‘90’s, and two in the aughts (one player did it three times in his decade).  Some were cases where the walk was probably undeserved, some where cases where the opposition may just have got too enthusiastic about the intentional pass, but it would be understandable.  There are three two hall-of-famers on the list, and one active player with a decent case building.

1. 60’s: Roberto Clemente, 1968 (27/51 intentional)

2. 70’s: Bill Russell, 1973 (20/34 intentional)

3. 80’s: Garry Templeton, 1984, 85, 86 (29/39, 24/41, 21/35 respectively)

4. 90’s: Andre Dawson, 1990 (21/42 intentional)

5. 00’s: Barry Bonds, 2004 (120/232 intentional)

6. 00’s: Vladimir Guerrero, 2006 (25/50 intentional)

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Comments

Display:

Fun. I’m guessing Paul Byrd is not on the list.

King Felix?

by afh4 on May 6, 2011 8:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Mr. Byrd could not be reached for comment, as he was hiding inside with all the shades drawn, his lunch money stolen for three consecutive days by some of the bigger boys.

Not Felix. Modern AL pitchers are at a disadvantage, not having much of an opportunity to hit. Most of these guys were good hitters for pitchers – the HR as batter component is the biggest component of having a positive score.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Misread formula.

by afh4 on May 6, 2011 8:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

One of them has to be Roger Clemens.

"I’ll happily embrace elevated hopes if that is the price to pay." - APV

On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff

by woodsmeister on May 6, 2011 8:53 AM EDT reply actions  

No, the lack of HR as a batter sunk him. -224 for Roger. 363 HR allowed, only 159 HBP.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would have guessed that Roger plunked a whole lot more batters than that. Also, misread the formula. I doubt any significant AL pitchers of the last 40 years are on the list.

"I’ll happily embrace elevated hopes if that is the price to pay." - APV

On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff

by woodsmeister on May 6, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

And if Bob Gibson is not on this list, I’ll be very surprised.

"I’ll happily embrace elevated hopes if that is the price to pay." - APV

On Twitter at @grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff

by woodsmeister on May 6, 2011 8:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, Bob Gibson is right. Just over the mark, with a score of 5, he is #8 on the list.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Zambrano?

by afh4 on May 6, 2011 8:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yes, he’s #1 on this list, and #4 all-time.

Average batter facing Carlos – HR every 54 plate appearances
Carlos facing average pitcher – HR every 31 plate appearances

Carlos has hit 89 batters, but never been plunked himself.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers: Sam McDowell, Ryne Duren, Catfish Hunter

Hitters: Pujols, Bonds, Mantle

by CaptainPenny on May 6, 2011 9:02 AM EDT reply actions  

‘No’ on the pitchers. Bonds is one of the hitters – in 2004 he had a ridiculous 120 IBB and 112 ‘unintentional’.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers: Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez jump straight to mind

For hitters, I’m thinking Reggie Jackson and Jim Rice because I have a vague recollection of part of the HOF case for Rice was how many IBBs he took and how that showed his "respect around the league.

by painaxl on May 6, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Johnson and Martinez were intimidating on the mound, but they don’t score well here – they’ve got a total of 1 career HR between the two of them; not so intimidating with the bat.

Neither Jackson nor Rice made it. Their plate discipline was too good, and only Barry Bonds can inspire the kind of irrational (?) fear that can overcome that.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d love to guess Nolan Ryan and Fergie Jenkins, but the DH era probably knocks them off of this list.

by talonk on May 6, 2011 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, they’re hurt by not batting enough.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know Bob Lemon was a heck of a hitter, but he doesnt seem to fall into the descriptions you have for the last 5 left.

by talonk on May 6, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Debuted too early. He’s #2 all-time though.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

For a 5 year stretch I always thought Albert Belle was pretty intimidating. Lot of power in a lineup loaded with power he seemed to be the one pitchers would most pitch around.

by akolenz on May 6, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Gary Peters, ROY, White Sox and Red Sox. (62 – 157) + 10*(19-7) = 35.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 10:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Micah Owings has a score of 60, but is well short of innings. (35-55) + 10*(9-1) = 60.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions  

  1. is probably Blue Moon Odom.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

That’s supposed to say number 5.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Magnificent nickname? But Oil Can Boyd doesn’t qualify!

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

I found one — Andre Dawson in 1990. Tough quiz!

Professional Lurker. Non-Baseball Posting Specialist.

by fingolfin on May 6, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, Dawson wasn’t known for great plate discipline. In 1990 21 of his 42 walks were intentional.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is Vladimir Guerrro one of the IBB masters? He’s such a hacker I can’t see him drawing too many walks on his own.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Good guess. He is the other guy from the aughts, with 25 of his 50 walks in 2006 being intentional.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Jose Bautista will make this list.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, he’s got great discipline, so he won’t. Just looked it up.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Warren Cromartie, 1979. 19/38.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Shoot, I forgot to mention the restriction I had in mind – at least 20 IBB in order to eliminate guys with limited appearances. So I didn’t have Cromartie on the list, though it’s a damn good answer.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Garry Templeton did it three years in a row in the 1980s. He did it again in 1989, but your 20 IBB restriction kills it.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 11:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, Templeton. The benefit of hitting in front of the pitcher. Templeton was not a good hitter in two of those three years. Nothing special in the third.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bill Russell, 1973.

Amazing he could do that the same year he coached the SuperSonics.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, 20/34 were intentional. Batting #8 in front of the pitcher.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

so is Russell the final hitter you are looking for?

by talonk on May 6, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. Just that one pitcher left.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, got confused buy this then.

There are three hall-of-famers on the list

Obviously Clemente and Dawson are HOF. Russell and Templeton are not. Bonds will have his HOF judgment day soon, and Vlad has an outside chance at bet. I don’t see three there unless you count Bonds as a shoo-in.

by talonk on May 6, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly I was considering the alternate reality Barry Bonds, who didn’t start taking steroids in 2000, retired at 38 after a subpar 2003 season with over 500 career home runs, and was elected to the Hall of Fame, as he richly deserved, in 2010.

Or I just wasn’t thinking.

It was the latter, sorry about that.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

no worries … just wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy.

by talonk on May 6, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 70s batter is Bill Russell (LA Dodgers): in 1973, he walked 34 times, 20 intentionally.

by peter m on May 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry — didn’t see that Fred Ox already got it.

by peter m on May 6, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

The flipside of the pitcher list is the guys who got the short end of the stick, the most abused pitchers. I thought it would all be 1990’s pitchers who spent most or all of their careers in the AL. They’d have given up lots of home runs and never had a chance to hit any themselves. Strangely, that wasn’t entirely the case. Only two of the bottom five are guys who spent the majority of their career in the AL.

In descending order, here are the bottom five all-time
David Wells (83-407) + 10*(0-1) = -334
Jamie Moyer (144-511) + 10*(0-1) = -377
Phil Niekro (123-482) + 10*(7-12)=-409
Don Sutton (82-472) + 10*(0-6)=-450
Robin Roberts (54-505) + 10*(5-8)=-481

Roberts was the most surprising. He gave up a ton of home runs, but almost never hit anybody. Sutton, Niekro, and Moyer all make sense as unintimidating pitchers.

The top three all-time are the two most famous ‘good hitting pitchers’ from this group (the innings pitched limit is a little too high for Ruth).
Wes Ferrell (23-132) + 10*(38-0) = 271
Bob Lemon (57-181) + 10*(37-2) = 244
Walter Johnson (203-97) + 10*(24-13) = 216

Yes, Johnson hit 24 home runs and only gave up 97, while drilling 203 guys.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Looking at just the HBP:HR ratio over 1500+ IP, the top two are old-timey Indians. Ed Killian hit 70 batters and gave up 9 HR. Willie Mitchell hit 75 and gave up 14 HR. The closest anybody comes to even a 1:1 ratio in the expansion era is Jamey Wright, who hit 137 batters and gave up 185 homers.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I started with Roberts as a guess, then looked up him and saw he was exactly the opposite we were looking for.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The last pitcher is 6’8" J.R. Richard.

by FredOx on May 6, 2011 1:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes. For those who hadn’t heard of him, he was kind of a proto-Big Unit, but right-handed. Huge, threw very very hard, poor control early in his career. Unfortunately, just as he was really figuring things out and refining his command, he suffered severe health problems, a stroke in 1980 that pretty much ended his career. In the year and a half before that, Richard had gone 28-17 with an ERA of 2.48 (139 ERA+). In 406 innings, he struck out 432 batters.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those who hadn’t heard of him,

Thanks for making me feel old.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can join me on the porch and we can both yell at the damn kids to stay off the lawn, ’cause I was long familiar with JR Richard, too.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on May 6, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was awesome for a brief period of time.

by emd2k3 on May 6, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I become an Astros fan in the early 80s (was living in LA and the Doger fans annoyed me). J.R. Richard and Mike Scott were two total BAs. Loved watching them both pitch.

Favorite non-Tribe playoff gmae was the 16 inning game vs the Mets. Great game to watch.

by talonk on May 6, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

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