2011 MLB Draft Results/Discussion - Cleveland Indians
by Ryan on Jun 10, 2011 6:56 AM EDT
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PrintThe Draft is now complete.
|
Round |
Overall Pick |
Player |
Position |
School |
|
1 |
8 |
SS |
Monteverde Academy, FL |
|
|
2 |
67 |
RHP |
Searcy HS, AR |
|
|
3 |
97 |
Jake Sisco |
RHP |
Merced College |
|
4 |
128 |
Mark Lowery |
C |
James Madison |
|
5 |
158 |
William Roberts |
RHP |
Virginia |
|
6 |
188 |
Bryson Myles |
LF |
Stephen F. Austin |
|
7 |
218 |
Eric Haase |
C |
Divine Child HS |
|
8 |
248 |
Stephen Tarpley |
LHP |
Gilbert HS |
|
9 |
278 |
Jordan Smith |
3B |
St. Cloud State |
|
10 |
308 |
Jeffrey Johnson |
RHP |
Cal Poly San Luis Obsipso |
|
11 |
338 |
Luis DeJesus |
RHP |
Angelina College (JC) |
|
12 |
368 |
Stephen Sides |
RHP |
Samford |
|
13 |
398 |
Zachary MacPhee |
2B |
Arizona State |
|
14 |
428 |
Cody Anderson |
RHP |
Feather River College (JC) |
|
15 |
458 |
Todd Hankins |
2B |
Seminole State College (JC) |
|
16 |
488 |
Ryan Merritt |
LHP |
McLennan CC (JC) |
|
17 |
518 |
Kevin Brady |
RHP |
Clemson |
|
18 |
548 |
Shawn Armstrong |
RHP |
East Carolina |
|
19 |
578 |
Shawn Morimando |
LHP |
Ocean Lakes HS, VA |
|
20 |
608 |
Dillon Peters |
LHP |
Cathedral HS, IN |
|
21 |
638 |
Elliot Cody |
CF |
Ball State |
|
22 |
668 |
Matthew Reckling |
RHP |
Rice |
|
23 |
698 |
Allen Cody |
RHP |
High Point U. |
|
24 |
728 |
Taylor Sparks |
3B |
St. John Bosco HS, MA |
|
25 |
758 |
Kevin Kramer |
3B |
Turlock HS, CA |
|
26 |
788 |
Austin Diemer |
CF |
Rocklin HS, CA |
|
27 |
818 |
Evan Frazer |
SS |
Galveston College |
|
28 |
848 |
Tyler Nurdin |
LHP |
Temple |
|
29 |
878 |
Jared Ruxer |
RHP |
Lawrence Central HS, IN |
|
30 |
908 |
John Polonius |
SS |
Genessee CC (JC) |
|
31 |
938 |
Michael Roth |
LHP |
South Carolina |
|
32 |
968 |
Cole Pitts |
RHP |
Colquitt County HS, GA |
|
33 |
998 |
Jack Wagoner |
RHP |
Florida Gulf Coast University |
|
34 |
1028 |
Tyler Maloof |
RHP |
Georgia |
|
35 |
1058 |
Mason Radeke |
RHP |
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo |
|
36 |
1088 |
Abelisario Guerrero |
LHP |
Galverston College (JC) |
|
37 |
1118 |
Taylor Starr |
RHP |
Oregon State |
|
38 |
1148 |
Yhoxian Medina |
SS |
Southeastern CC (JC) |
|
39 |
1178 |
John Barr |
CF |
Virginia |
|
40 |
1208 |
Matt Eureste |
SS |
St. Pius X HS, TX |
|
41 |
1238 |
Brian Ruiz |
OF |
Lincoln West HS, OH |
|
42 |
1268 |
Casey Serna |
SS |
Oregon |
|
43 |
1298 |
Geoffrey Davenport |
LHP |
Arkansas |
|
44 |
1328 |
Adam Griffin |
RHP |
Forsyth Country Day School, NC |
|
45 |
1358 |
Will Jamison |
CF |
Evangelical Christian School, TN |
|
46 |
1388 |
Robert Nixon |
RHP |
Adelphi U. |
|
47 |
1418 |
Corey Embree |
RF |
Moberly HS, MO |
|
48 |
1448 |
Blaine O'Brien |
RHP |
Keystone College |
|
49 |
1478 |
Brian Hansen |
OF |
St. Cloud State |
|
50 |
1508 |
Tyler Baker |
C |
Shawnee Heights HS, KS |
268 comments
|
0 recs |
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Comments
I’ll start with a comment that reveals me as a draft ignoramus.
The consensus around here seems to be that we should have gone with a high-upside arm for reasons of attrition, since bats are easier to acquire by trade. Moreover, the state of our system supposedly shouldn’t matter.
But flipping through the stats of our minor league affiliates, it strikes me that we have almost no bat below triple A that looks all that promising. Jordan Henry can get on base. Chen may be good, but he is having a mixed year. After that…who? Washington, maybe? Kinston looks like a wasteland this year. So I sort of like our first pick.
Moreover, we have no top flight starting pitching that could potentially bring us back any impact bats in trades.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Moreover, the state of our system supposedly shouldn’t matter.
Also commenting as mostly a draft ignoramus, I don’t know if that’s 100 percent true. The state of your major league team shouldn’t matter. But I think you could consider your system. You definitely shouldn’t reach for a player, but if there are several players who could reasonably be drafted at your spot, a dearth of talent at a position in your system could be a factor in your choice. Just my humble opinion.
Yeah, you don’t draft based on what’s at the major-league level (by the time Lindor is even ready, it could be 2015 or 2016), but what’s in the minors.
and asdrubal shouldn’t step on his forearm until about 2018.
by Brick. on Jun 7, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This says it all for me from the sidebar:
jc_bradbury: No need to share opinions you’ve formed from other people’s opinions about prospects you’ve never seen
i love reading about what people think, and reading about what people think about what other people think, but generally i’m like. “See ya in four years or whatever, maybe, hopefully, Lindor.”
So fans can’t comment on the draft then? C’mon, I don’t buy this.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
i’m not trying to quell discussion – and i love reading said discussion – as i said – but there’s nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. it’s not like the nfl or nba draft where there’s more tangible information on these guys.
The information is definitely there now for those who want it. The draft has changed a bit over the past few years.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i want to redirect the emphasis on the original “I’m”. All I’m saying is I could comment on these guys, but it would be based on just reading something from some site that compiled stuff for me in the first place.
if someone here really feels they have a good read on a 17 year old high school kid from Florida, I’m all ears – and no mouth.
Again, the lack of power projections concern me given what was available. Here’s to hoping he has a Mike Trout style growth spurt and that changes.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Be encouraged that he hit those HRs in PetCo Park, one of the most notorious pitcher’s parks in baseball – that was no small feat, even if he was trying to hit for HRs. Several players have probably tried to hit HRs there, and still can’t do it.
That’s probably why some think Lindor could hit 15-20 HRs/season eventually, though if he doesn’t, I won’t be disappointed. He’s likely to hit some – combine that with around a .290-.300 AVG and stellar defense, I’ll gladly take that! :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Two things:
1. I wouldn’t be worrying that much about how many HRs Lindor is going to hit – after all, even though the SSs of today do hit more HRs than the ones from yesteryear, the first thought with a HS SS player is, “Can he stay at the position?”
And, in an extreme rarity, virtually everyone is saying “yes,” even if he fills out some as he’s expected to. Most SS prospects won’t – even Chisenhall, who was originally drafted as a SS, did not have the consensus opinion of remaining at SS long-term, thinking that he would move to 3B, and he did relatively quickly (1st full prof. season if I remember correctly).
2. As some analysts have said, the Indians not only chose arguably the best talent available at that position in the draft, they ALSO addressed arguably their greatest need/weakness in the system (beyond Cabrera, you might have Diaz at AA, and he’s far from a certainty; you can make the argument for power hitters, especially in the OF, as being our greatest need in the system, but no one fitting that mold really seemed to stand out at the top of the draft, and you’re not just going to reach for someone at that position of the draft, at least if you want to have a solid to good draft :-).
As Ryan said, you’re not going to try to address needs in the MLB Draft early on (that comes in the later rounds), but the fact that the Indians addressed one of their biggest needs, if not the biggest, PLUS got arguably the best talent at that position, in my opinion, you should be quite pleased, if not thrilled, with this pick.
Add to that the fact that the college arms that remained (Gray, Bradley, Jungmann) all had some “issues” (Gray was small and, I believe, had some trouble commanding the offspeed stuff; Bradley seemed only to have an “average 4-pitch mix” – conjures up images of Sowers and Huff in my mind to some extent, and Jungmann sounds more like Masterson, who has the potential to be solid, but most reports suggest he’s probably more a mid-rotation starter, maybe a #2 if everything works out), and I think that’s all the more reason to applaud the pick, as the Indians’ new draft philosophy of picking more projectability and talent is staying the course rather than going with “safer, lower-ceiling” picks (Sowers, Huff, etc.).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I love that phrase. I may use it during the later rounds of next year’s NFL Draft.
by JulioBernazard on Jun 7, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
For those who don’t know, Bradbury is one of the better known and respected baseball economists. Antonetti has cited his work with regard to assigning leveraged run values to top relievers.
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah arguing about players no one has seen is a little worthless. I was hoping for this pick yesterday morning and like it never the less. Hopefully he will sign quickly so I can go see him in Youngstown. I think we draft more high schoolers than usual early this year and more bats.
by riter on Jun 7, 2011 9:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I’m guessing Lindor won’t be in Youngstown; he’ll probably play in the Arizona Rookie League, where most high-schoolers start.
And yet, it’s always possible they already have a deal.
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I will make a wild guess and say we pick Brandon Sinnery from Michigan at some point today.
by riter on Jun 7, 2011 10:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I still think the indians music festival is loaded with guys who have baseball names.
…and batting ninth, Blake Shelton, who will start at second tonight with Jerrod Niemann on the mound.
Country music stars are the new market inefficiency.
by TheDanimal on Jun 7, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Juan Pierre leads it off. And slaps a line drive to right.
CAUGHT! by Seven Additional Artists.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Jun 7, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I guess if I had to make an awful and uninformed comparison, I’d say Lindor sounds like Michael Brantley at short, but better there than Brantley was ever projected to be in the OF.
To project anything a 17-year-old will do in the majors seems silly, but it seems like we can count on the glove being a good one no matter what he turns into. This is assuming he doesn’t gain 80 pounds or something. Outside of the glove, our scouting department seems to like what they see, and they’ve decided it will more than likely turn into something good. I think I’m at a point where I trust Grant’s intuitions.
Steel Nick
Of course you can project what a 17 year old will do. If they couldn’t, they wouldn’t have drafted him.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Technically you can project till the cows come home; it doesn’t necessarily mean anything. The front office, just like any of us, would just be guessing.
I would say just about any of us can make an educated guess. But even with the most educated guess , we’re all still pretty clueless.
It does seem that his upside is hitting like Brantley while defending like Vizquel. That is a fantastic upside, and anyone who doesn’t realize it is just nuts.
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks to be a bigger kid, good velocity, some sink.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Shapiro’s tweet from this morning makes me think that they believe filling SS with a bonafide player is more difficult than finding starting pitchers.
Plus the fact that this draft was reportedly loaded with pitching depth, and power pitching depth, at that. The thinking likely is, they can get some projectable pitchers later in the draft than they normally could, as evidenced by their 2nd-round pick, Dillon Howard, and even beyond.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Frankie Piliere: There goes Dillon Howard. He wants a lot of money so we shall see. Big, physical power arm.
Steel Nick
How dare you.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well the Howard pick is exciting.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Howard has been considered a near first-round lock since he was clocked at 92 mph in his first high-school appearance as a freshman, and homered in his first at-bat. He touched 95 mph frequently at the 2008 World Wood Bat Association Underclass World Championship early in his sophomore year at Searcy High, but it was obvious then that he was probably close to reaching the top of his physical capability as he was a strong, physical athlete even at that age. In fact, any draft forecaster or scout who refers to Howard today as a "projectable" young pitcher is woefully naïve, as Howard throws no harder now than he did three years ago. What Howard has done over that period is an outstanding job of developing himself mechanically, and becoming a "pitcher" instead of a "thrower". He still has a very fast arm and the ball comes out of his hand very easily with little effort. His steady 91-95 mph fastball gets very nice running action at times, and he’s increasingly able to spot the pitch to different parts of the strike zone. Howard throws two types of breaking balls, a 78-mph true curveball with tight spin and a deep, 11-to-5 shape, and an 82-mph slider that is more of a flatter, slurvy version of his curve, though has good depth. His slider will likely take on a different identity at the professional level as minor-league pitching instructors are likely to turn it into a tighter, mid-80s power pitch. Howard has always thrown a changeup in the low-80s, but understandably hasn’t focused much on developing that pitch yet, although his delivery and ability to put movement on his fastball are signs that he should be able to master it with repetitions.
His signability could be an interesting puzzle for scouts to figure out, though, as he is being advised by the Boras Corporation, which has a documented history of steering high-school clients to college before entering professional baseball. In addition, Howard would be eligible to re-enter the draft as a college sophomore, due to his age, if he chooses to honor his scholarship to Arkansas. If those factors aren’t enough for Howard to ponder, his stature as one of the top high-school prospects ever raised and developed in Arkansas may put added pressure on him to play for the extremely-popular state school, and potentially even lead that program to its first-ever College World Series title. Projected Draft Position: Late First Round/Sandwich Round
Perfect Game scouting, who apparently thought he had a shot inside the top 20.
Steel Nick
As an Indians fan you have to love this pick, if signed he would make my Indians top ten prospects right away and would be the 6th or 7th best player in the system.
I don’t know who Jeff Ellis is, but this line on Lastoria’s site certainly interested me. Sounds like a fast riser, too.
Steel Nick
As an Indians fan you have to love this pick, if signed he would immediately rise to the top of list of prospects we complain about being blocked.
Fixed.
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Aw man, the Royals took a guy named Brickhouse. There goes the first great name off the board, just a few picks before Cleveland. Rats.
Steel Nick
Which reminds me: Maybe the Indians should start pushing Goodnight a little bit. See what he can do.
Steel Nick
Jake Sisco, juco righty. Dumps like a truck, truck, truck.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 7, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Was torn between reccing and flagging this. Decided to rec the post and flag myself for getting the reference.
Professional Lurker. Non-Baseball Posting Specialist.
by fingolfin on Jun 7, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jake Sisco, for real? The kid from Deep Space Nine?
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We take Sisco, RHP, out of CA.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
I just saw the Pirates got Josh Bell with the first pick of the second round. Have to love what Huntington is doing over there.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 12:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
John Sickels:
Jake Sisco, RHP, Merced Junior College: He throws 92-95 MPH, and his slider, curve, and changeup are all promising. He has a good body, pitched quite well this year, and still has remaining projectability. As a freshman he has a bit of leverage, but a team who mines the junior college ranks could easily pop him early enough to get his name on a contract without much problem. He could be a huge steal.
Steel Nick
Jake Sisco?
It looks like all those holodeck sessions with dad paid off.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
by evereye3 on Jun 7, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thought there might be another mega-geek out there. I never imagined it would be you though. Now I see you in a whole other light.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
Not mega, but I kept watching DS9 for a few seasons, hoping it would become as good as TNG. Aside from fleeting moments here and there, it didn’t come close to happening. Still, who wouldn’t have a soft spot for the baseball-loving captain and his son?
by Jay on Jun 8, 2011 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, so maybe I am the only mega-geek around after all.
DS9 was my favorite of the treks. It is not for the faint of heart, but the war/occupation/terrorism/religion/meaning of life themes made for intriguing viewing five years before BSG rewrote the playbook for tv sci-fi.
Also the baseball bit was a nice touch. Ben Sisko was the kind of dad I hope I’ll be when my son is that age.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
Ten years before, actually. And Ron Moore wrote a lot of TNG and DS9 of course. I haven’t watched any BSG, but I’ll check it out one of these years.
by Jay on Jun 8, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I was counting five from the end of DS9 (1999) to the beginning of BSG (2004).
Looking back, you can definitely trace the themes that Moore would explore in BSG back to the basic framework of DS9. He wasn’t responsible for those, since he didn’t join DS9’s writing team until the 4th season, but he certainly put the show on a different level. It got much better as it went along, in no small part thanks to Moore and other TNG writers who brought with them the focus on character development and camaraderie that made the Enterprise-D’s crew so compelling.
That same formula is what made BSG definitely worth your time. It doesn’t have any baseball though, only pyramid.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
DS9 was my favorite of all the trek shows too. Besides TNG i’m not sure how anyone could have it lower than two. (Or three if you count the original trek show.)
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jun 8, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine too. I was really hoping we would take a kid called Lieutenant Worf in one of the late rounds. Forget Asia – we should be tapping the Klingon market.
Mega-geeks unite!
I could see a Klingon corner infielder, corner outfielder or DH. I doubt that they would see the honor in a high on-base percentage. They would be more concerned with slugging or Runs Bat’lethed In.
I can’t help but think Klingon pitchers would look an awful lot like Chris Perez.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
Given that there are only five, unless you count the cartoon, which one you put first says a lot. I can’t imagine TNG being lower than two on anyone’s list, because it defined what Star Trek should be for anyone under 45. Quite a few people found DS9 boring because they didn’t “go” anywhere.
The only one I have never heard anyone say was their favorite was Enterprise.
A perfectionist, only without all the results.
The Rays have picked 12 players already, before the A’s (as just one example) have taken their second pick and the Indians their third. Wow.
by MTF on Jun 7, 2011 1:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And this is why you shouldn’t always have to trade your stars at the deadline.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How so?
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Very different avenues for keeping talent in the system (draft > majors is ~3-5 year process, trade > majors can be as short as 1-year). Very different costs involved (keeping salary for season/risk of arbitration acceptance/cost of high draft picks vs. known costs with trades). Holding onto players solely for compensation picks is not a strategy, it is a side effect.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said they were comparable. Just that a team shouldn’t always have to feel they have to trade a star they know they can’t re-sign.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think it makes a lot of sense depending on where your depth is (or isn’t), if you think it’ll be a strong class, etc. loading up on one year (moneyball) seems like it can be really effective if deployed at the right time – in theory.
I think it makes a lot of sense if your system isn’t barren because you’ve had seven horrible drafts in a row.
THAT is why the Rays can do this.
by Jay on Jun 7, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If Tampa wasn’t in the thick of a race, I bet they would’ve gladly traded their free agent players for even a mediocre package. Even if you only manage to get a middle reliever or a utility infielder, they’ll likely give you more production than you’ll ever see from the supplemental pick you’d acquire.
Its more the ridiculousness of the compensation structure currently. None of the guys lost by Tampe were great stars. Soriano should have received compensation the rest were bullpen filler having a good year.
The point is they took advantage of the system, fair or not.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the compensation rules (or at least the formulas that determine the free agent types) do need to be changed, as well as the stupid slotting suggestions.
They’re a little lucky too, with all these picks in a deep draft. Like walking into a bar in a strange new town only to find it has all of your favorite beers on tap. But, hey, that sort of thing never happens to a Tribe fan.
by MTF on Jun 7, 2011 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wasn’t all luck.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The ages of our three draft picks are 17, 18, 19. I’m not sure if that means anything but I’m used to college players.
Steel Nick
This is legitimately exciting.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Indians are probably budgeting a lot of money on those first two picks. Expecting pretty boring late-round picks by the team as a result.
After spending little to nothing in free agency, with a deeeeep draft, they should be budgeting/spending large in this draft.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This I am not familiar with. Could be.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 2:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Last year the Indians spent something like $9M on the draft, right (which was a lot)? I’m guessing those first two guys cost more than 50% of that total to sign.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I fully expect it to cost every bit of $9mil to sign these first two guys. No doubt in my mind that it will take that.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooops. That should read “every bit of 50% of $9mil to sign these first two guys”
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope not.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can’t find anything about this Lowery guy, besides that he was named the Colonial’s best defensive catcher.
Steel Nick
2011 Louisville Slugger/Collegiate Baseball First Team All-American
CAA Player of the Year and First Team All-CAA as a junior
Named one of 13 semifinalist for Johnny Bench Award
Named one of 30 semifinalists for the Golden Spikes Award
On the 36-player watch list for the Dick Howser Trophy
Second Team All-CAA as a sophomor
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Decent organizational guy at a premium position…I’m fine with that. I have a hunch the Indians front office was ecstatic with its first two picks. The organization doesn’t draft high schoolers high in the draft without really strong feelings.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Will Roberts, RHP out of Virginia. Number 2 guy in their rotation behind Hultzen. Matches Hultzen’s success, though with far fewer Ks.
MLB lists him as 6’5" 195…tall frame the Indians seem to like these days
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Was Lindor always up in the sidebar poll, or was there a huge rush of people for him after the pick?
We appear to be entering the funny name portion of the draft early. Last three picks, Featherston, Chin and Gaviglio.
Hmm, John Polonius. I’ll take it.
by OddlyGaussian on Jun 8, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
For some perspective, here are the Indians picks from rounds 1-5 the past several years:
2010:
Drew Pomeranz
Levon Washington
Tony Wolters
Kyle Blair
Cole Cook
2009:
Alex White
Jason Kipnis
Joe Gardner
Kyle Bellows
Austin Adams
2008:
Lonnie Chisenhall
Trey Haley
Cord Phelps
David Roberts
Zach Putnam
2007:
Beau Mills
TJ Macfarland
Jonathan Holt
2006:
David Huff
Steve Wright
Josh Rodriguez
Wes Hodges
Matt McBride
Adam Davis
Ryan Morris
Chris Archer
We didn’t have many high picks in 2007, but man does that 2006 draft look painful in retrospect
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Mills was their only pick in the top 136 in 2007. In 2006 everyone through Ryan Morris was in the top 131.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere in the top 6? Kidding aside, I have no idea. I like each of the last three drafts, but my guess is that Lindor would be the overall #1 prospect on this list.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than Pomeranz even?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I think so. If Lindor has the upside of an elite SS, that seems higher than Pomz as a #2-#3 starter.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So we don’t think Pomeranz could eventually be a #1 guy? He’s big, throws hard, and has a plus curve. If he ever figures out his change (admittedly big if) he could be pretty special right?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I hate the whole #1-#5 thing…but I don’t think most scouts see Pomz at that level (very few guys are considered #1s)
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you talking about at the time of each draft?
Knowing what we do right now, how do you not take ‘09 with White and Kipnis looking like locks to make at least some kind of MLB contribution and in White’s case, probably more, assuming his finger issue isn’t career threatening. Gardner and Adams are also both very interesting.
It’s very close.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 4:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The true agony comes if you look at the ‘00-’03 drafts. 31 top 157 picks, and the only guys on the list to every do anything more than drink coffee in Cleveland are Ryan Garko, Jeremy Guthrie and Ben Francisco. That stings.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Callis (BA) on the Indians 6th round pick:
6th rd: Stephen F. Austin St OF Bryson Miles. Kirby Puckett body, leads D-I w/53 SB, intriguing power/speed combo
Actually appears to be an intriguing OF prospect…former football player originally recruited to TCU
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Comment from KLaw chat:
Jonathan (Boston)
Indians took Dillon Howard at 67, and you ranked him 18th. I can assume you think it’s a good pick? Why did he slip — too raw, like you said? Also, two high-upside high schoolers for their first two picks? Are the Indians changing their philosophy?
Klaw (2:52 PM)
Big price tag. Not a reflection of his talent. Lindor’s more safe than high-upside but Howard is shoot-for-the-stars. I like Sisco (3rd round) too – 91-93, will show you two above-avg offspeed pitches. And Roberts is the guy at UVA who threw the no-hitter vs GWU – average stuff with command, has a chance to be a back-end guy, good value in the 5th.
You are reading my signature.
Upside, definitely.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they should train one of them to be a surgeon/physical therapist and have him follow around Strasbourg
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
They also got Meyer. Insane draft for them.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 4:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lefty pitcher, Tarpley, taken in the 8th. Looks a lot like Soto. Long and lean. Video has him hitting 88-89 on the gun, but looks like he could add some velocity if he’d eat something. Good looking breaking stuff, especially to righties. Good separation on the slider.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
The last two years the Indians have gotten a bunch of interesting guys in rounds 6-10…here is a summary going back to 2006 (these are guys drafted, not drafted and signed)
2006
6 191 Austin Creps P Texas A&M A
7 221 Robert Alcombrack C Bear River HS (CA) A
8 251 Michael Eisenberg P Marietta College A
9 281 Jared Goedert 2B Kansas State AAA
10 311 Paolo Espino P The Pendleton S HS (FL) AAA
2007
7 227 Cole St. Clair P Rice AA
8 257 Mark Thompson SS Lewis-Clark State Co A+
9 287 Adam White OF West Virginia A+
10 317 Heath Taylor P Oklahoma A+
2008
6 201 Jeremie Tice 3B College of Charlesto A+
7 231 Tim Fedroff OF North Carolina AA
8 261 Eric Berger P Arizona AAA
9 291 Clayton Cook P Amarillo HS (TX) A
10 321 Donnie Webb OF Oklahoma State AAA
2009
6 185 Ben Carlson 1B Missouri State A
7 215 Jordan Henry CF Mississippi AA
8 245 Cory Burns RHP Arizona A+
9 275 Preston Guilmet RHP Arizona A
10 305 Brett Brach RHP Monmouth A+
2010
6 180 Nicholas Bartolone SS Chabot College A-
7 210 Robbie Aviles P Suffern HS (NY) -
8 240 Alexander Lavisky C St. Edward HS (OH) Rk
9 270 Jordan Cooper P Wichita State A-
10 300 Tyler Holt CF Florida State A
You had to wave Ben Carlson and Preston Guilmet in my face, didn’t you?
I’m still not sure why, but after reading up on those guys I convinced myself that they were the steals of the draft.
Steel Nick
Guilmet has 165 Ks, 28 BBs in his pro career so far…hard to complain to much about that
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Jordon Smith, big 3B/OF, out of St. Cloud State, goes in the 9th round. Looks to be a decent pick up. Good glove, decent bat.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
Tony says he is scheduled for the Cape Cod League this summer
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably a late sign if he does sign with us then. Any other implications i’m missing by this?
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No…just affects the timing and $$ associated with his signing, I would guess
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what i figured. Tribe front office gets to see him in action some more, too, which could be a good thing.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This draft looks absolutly insane for the tribe. If the tribe signs Eric Haase, he may draw Kinsler comparisons.
Only if they sign him?
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 4:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also love their Stanford guys. Steven Sides, RHP, 12th round pick.
by APV on Jun 7, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB.com has him out of Samford, not Stanford. Am I incorrect?
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And we continue to draft 2nd baseman. Show me outfielders.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 7, 2011 4:39 PM EDT reply actions
Signed as a pitcher, let’s not forget.
by ken from alexandria on Jun 7, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Lindor makes Law’s top 100 next year.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 7, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So we pass on Taylor Jungmann in the first round, arguably the best RHP in the Big 12, for a 17 year-old SS that won’t be ready to contribute for 3-5 years (if ever)? Now we’re drafting one scrub RHP after another? Taylor could fast track just like White AND he’s got better stuff than Alex did in college. Makes loads of sense. *sarcasm
It is high quality sarcasm to fake being sarcastic.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 7, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think Lindor was a bad pick, but this post makes my head hurt.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 12:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There is a massive hole in the farm system at SS, granted, but to say Lindor was the best pick left on the board at 8, is ridiculous. Unless management knew something (something I highly doubt) that the rest of baseball didn’t about Jungmann fast tracking (as 90% of all draft experts project) then this was a dumb move. If they were worried about him being signable because he’s a Junior, that doesn’t hold water, Lindor could do the same. I suspect it is all about money and not having to give a HS kid beaucoup dollars. Building a Championship Dynasty on a Budget 101. Too bad the Dolanites can’t clip some coupons to use toward tying up talent long term.
BUT….to give them some sort of credit for finding one hell of a speedster in Bryson Myles in the 6th round was a good get.
2010: Hit .371, 5 HR, 30 RBI; .465 on-base percentage, 50 runs, 68 hits, 181 AB, 27 BB, 6 2B, and was second in nation with 53/59 stolen bases in 50 games.
You come off as a Jungmann fan that doesn’t really know what they’re talking about otherwise. The Howard pick was excellent.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 1:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Much of the point of a draft strategy is to leverage things you think some other teams don’t know. I doubt that the Indians were the only team that would have taken Lindor there, but even if most teams wouldn’t have, that certainly doesn’t make the pick wrong.
The low value of high school pitchers in general is a fact — not up for debate. There are a handful of special ones that supercede the math on this, but it is not the least bit suspicious if one of those exceptions is not available at #8 — even this year.
So I think you basically don’t understand the value proposition here. It isn’t just about spending draft bonus dollars wisely. It’s mostly about spending the PICK wisely. The pick itself is worth a few million.
by Jay on Jun 8, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions
but to say Lindor was the best pick left on the board at 8, is ridiculous. Unless management knew something (something I highly doubt)
It absolutely is! Oh my God, you’re right! I was happy with the choice that a legion of men who have devoted their careers to these decisions made, but that was all before RobertCD of The Internet shot it down! Damn my eyes for never seeing the truth before.
You know what’s ridiculous? Someone looking at our first two rounds and concluding that the Indians were trying to save money.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 8, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
First paragraph is a whole bunch of lazy stupidity. Second paragraph is irrefutably correct.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The first sentence has left me confused. The second sentence will be taken as a compliment, thank you.
Steel Nick
A legion of men who have devoted their careers to these decisions also drafted Danny Hultzen ahead of Bauer, Bundy, Rendon, and Starling. It’s literally the laziest argument in the book. “I don’t have a counter, so I’m just going to say the front office is smarter than you.” And it doesn’t even make sense here, since these arguments aren’t exactly difficult to counter.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
Just so we’re clear, you’re claiming that any of us know more than the men in the draft room for the Indians? The men who have taken Drew Pomeranz, Alex White, and Lonnie Chisenhall in consecutive years?
This is someone with Texas ties pissed that the Indians didn’t take the Texas boy. I believe my sarcastic comment was as much discourse as his intelligent argument deserved.
Relax, Joe.
Steel Nick
I’m not angry! I’m just saying, with that logic you could never refute any move the FO makes. It’s lame.
I agree, though, this guy is clearly just a Texas homer.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
The draft is different. We can all agree about huge contracts to bad aging players, or horrible managers’ calls, blah blah blah. We’re all watching the same games and have access to the same numbers. What we’re not doing is traveling the country watching hundreds of high school tournaments and breaking down video of deliveries. None of us can really say we know more about Lindor or Meyer or Jungmann than Grant’s team did. It doesn’t mean they made the right call, but that’s for years from now to decide.
What annoys me is this guy coming in and flailing about how stupid this FO was for passing up on Jungmann. I was sarcastic to him. You think I’m being lazy and stupid and lame? Noted. Move on.
Steel Nick
I guess I’m not sure why we’d specifically pick out a guy who can fast track. Wasn’t this a criticism of the team’s drafting just a couple years ago? If you think Lindor is the best player available, and more teams than the Indians did, as he was projected to go top 10, and Goldstein mentioned that Lindor at #2 wasn’t out of the question.
The complain about money just doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
Lindor at 2 was a possibility because Z is an idiot.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 1:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Law doesn’t love it at all. He considers it a safe pick.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t see how you can call a 17 year old a ‘safe’ pick unless its either Alex Rodriguez or the new baseline is a big-armed HS pitcher with iffy mechanics. And Law’s had him going around the 10th pick for a while now, so it’s not like he’s calling this a reach.
A mock draft gives no indication of how the writer feels about the pick. It’s an informed prediction. He did think it was a reach.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 8, 2011 8:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ll take a “safe” 17 year old prospect with good defense at a premium position any day.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jun 8, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the text from Law’s first-round wrap-up, although this particular text was written by his co-author Jason Churchill.
He’s a switch-hitter with pop — he won the home run derby at the Aflac All-American game last year at age 16 — and scares opposing coaches from all angles. He’s a wizard on defense and projects to not only stick at shortstop but thrive there. The question on Lindor is how real the power is, but scouts generally agree it’s above-average relative to the position.
Let’s be clear here, he’s saying that Lindor’s upside is (a) one of the most valuable defenders in the game, and (b) an average hitter. That is a big upside, whether or not Law has thought to categorize it that way. If defense, especially at shortstop and catcher, isn’t a big component of the term “upside,” then that word has no meaning in this discussion.
Later in his chat, Law writes:
Lindor’s more safe than high-upside but Howard is shoot-for-the-stars.
This is not a knock on Lindor’s upside, it’s a comparison. Lindor is a safe pick, i.e., he’s considered likely to make it to the majors with a good chance to be a starter. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t also have good upside. We are talking about a Top 10 pick here.
And I have to state again, a defensively gifted shortstop with 15 HR ceiling certainly has as much upside as a LaPorta type with 40 HR potential. There are few if any players in the history of the game who combined shortstop defense with real power — only A-Rod, really — so if Lindor isn’t a high-upside shortstop, then that means that (a) defense doesn’t count, or (b) nobody is.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
A 15 HR SS with above average defense is not a superstar. Do you consider Stephen Drew a superstar? I sure don’t. It just scares me that the best case projection for this kid is 15 HR. I’m not saying he needs to have A-Rod power, but asking for Tulo power in this draft isn’t unreasonable considering the other options.
For example, Meyer already has two plus pitches, both with a chance to be plus-plus. All he has to work on is his command, which is already improving. He is much closer to being a superstar right now than Lindor is to being an above-average player. That’s disappointing to me.
I’ll say it again, though: let’s just hope this kid has a Trout-esque growth spurt between now and next spring.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
He is much closer to being a superstar right now than Lindor is to being an above-average player.
Why? Because he’s closer to the majors?
Steel Nick
Jason Churchill on Asdrubal, who had just turned 20, from 2006, after two years in the minors:
He’s got the bat speed and discipline to max out in the 8-12 home run range, taking Safeco into consideration. Add that to a 275-285 batting average and a .350 OBP.
Asdrubal’s growth spurt from 2006 to today consists of, apparently, an additional 10 pounds. He’s career 287/348, so these are pretty good projections, but nobody should confuse a scouting report “upside” with truth.
No one is.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 9, 2011 8:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tulo might be a once-a-decade talent. Not a reasonable standard, maybe not even for the #1 overall pick.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I’ll stick to my Drew comp then.then
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 9, 2011 8:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
OT
Lastoria, via Twitter.
Interesting. Just realized Nick Johnson has to be in Cleveland by July 1st. Has opt out clause to be on 40-man by then
and since he is out of options and a 9+ service time guy, he cant be optioned to minors if added so must be added to 25-man. Hmmm.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
He doesn’t have it exactly right. Johnson has the option to opt out on July 1, but that doesn’t mean that he will. My guess is that the Indians are rather serious about adding him to the 25-man, but they won’t jump the gun on his rehab in order to do so.
Consider, too, that they can add him to the 25-man and then put him on the DL immediately, and they can send him on a rehab assignment once he’s healthy. So they could, without much effort, avoid the opt-out clause without using up a 25-man spot for the rest of the season, as long as he’s legitimately still injured through August 11.
by Jay on Jun 8, 2011 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for filling in the gaps, knew there was more information to be had.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Been tweeting back and forth with Tony on this.
My point is, Johnson can stick around if he chooses to, i.e., if he feels he could use some more time to sharpen up in the minors. Tony’s point is, there’s no real good reason for him to decline the opt-out. There’s 22 more days until July 1, and then a 20-day rehab assignment — he’ll likely feel that’s enough for his purposes. Both of these perspectives are valid.
If he forces the issue, they add him to the 40-man on July 1, put him on the DL if necessary, and send him on a 20-day rehab assignment when he’s ready. He can’t be on the DL if there’s no real injury, and he can’t rehab in the minors if he’s not a rehab assignment, and the rehab assignment is limited to 20 days — which likely will include the All-Star break. So in all likelihood, he’s either going to have a regularly scheduled setback, or he’ll be in the majors by July 21.
I see what Tony is saying, but that would also mean sticking it to the club that was willing to take a flier on him in the first place in giving him a place to regain his footing. A lot of the rehab articles on players that I’ve read in the past seem to imply that this frequently means something to them.
Also, I think if your timeline happens (which if he isn’t ready to play on July 1st, it will) and he isn’t ready on the 21st, we’re not going to be sorry he leaves if he chooses to.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
first rule of the 28th round is: you do not talk about the 28th round.
You are reading my signature.
Or is it “What happens in the 28th round, stays in the 28th round”?
by YoDaddyWags on Jun 10, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
His name is actually Robert Paulson.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jun 10, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and in the 50th round, the Tylers edge out the Taylors, 3-2.
Abelisarios come in a distant 3rd.
You are reading my signature.
I AM A DOLANITE BECAUSE I DON’T CARE THAT WE DIDN’T TAKE JUNGMANN
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
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