Indians acquire Fukudome from Cubs
by Jay on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM EDT
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PrintThe Indians acquired Cubs outfielder Kosuke Fukudome today in exchange for two minor leaguers, RHP Carlton Smith and OF Abner Abreu. Smith was a depth relief option still developing in Triple-A Columbus at age 25; his strikeouts spiked this season, but his overall numbers remain mediocre. Abreu was an interesting C-grade prospect toiling away in Advanced-A Kinston; he has great power potential but probably will never hit for enough contact to make it to the majors.
The Indians reportedly pay less than 800K of Fukudome's remaining salary, meaning the Cubs will send nearly $4 million in cash to balance out the deal. The Indians basically got this guy for nothing.
Fukudome has been a huge disappointment in Chicago, signed with no U.S. experience to a Hafner-sized deal to great fanfare and then failing to produce any power at the plate. Leaving aside the disappointments of Cubs management and fans, the Indians are getting a plus defender and plus on-base guy. He won't set the world on fire — and he certainly doesn't give us an upgrade against lefties — but he is a solid if incremental upgrade to the club's shockingly depleted outfield picture.
Travis Buck was designated for assignment to free up a roster spot for Fukudome. The Indians reportedly are still in the hunt for a right-handed bat (Ludwick?) and possibly a starting pitcher. Stay tuned, the Indians are officially "buyers" now.
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Could do worse for a “stop gap” or extra OF.
Some rumors (RUMORS) that it’s Carlton Smith and Abner Abreu
"Ok everyone listen up! I've just invited Dave to suck it!"
As a Cubs fan, I don’t like either prospect all that much in return. Seen enough of Abreu at Kinston to doubt his potential to ever develop, and Smith is one of those upper level dime a dozen arms that has a shot at middle relief if all goes well.
That said, Fukudome’s been awful since April, and he is doing his typical spiral, so it’s a decent return, even with us eating all the money. Good luck to you guys.
while those arms are a dime a dozen, they are almost a dime a score in the Indians organization, they have os many
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Cubs have more than enough Smith’s and Abreu’s. It’s no guarantee that either guy will be in the organization next year. Of the two, Abreu’s got the better chance.
All that said, Kosuke had a line of .244/.335(ish)/.361 since May 1st. That’s about the type of return I expected for him, so it was a decent deal for both sides. A lottery ticket in Abreu, and a guy who might fill a role in the upper levels and might be able to be a middle reliever/long man if a lot goes well.
I was in favor of any move that meant less Travis Buck for the next two months.
by Toxicadam on Jul 28, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. If he can post a similar OBP it’ll be a good pull.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
And plays above-average defense, which is something that wouldn’t suck right about now:
- 2nd in the NL in Defensive WAR (1.6, would place him 3rd in the AL)
- 1st in the NL in Total Zone Runs (16, again third in the AL)
- 5th among NL RFs in Range Factor/9 Innings
by FredOx on Jul 28, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, his mega-bust reputation is based on past expectations. He’s a little better than people think, or else he’d have been gone by now.
Esp considering one of the three has been on the DL three times this year.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I never had the high expectations the cubs had. I thought he would be what he has turned out to be, an average hitter with a tiny bit of power but a great eye.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
This is a rental, as even though Fukudome would only be arbitration-eligible after the season, the Indians have to release him if they haven’t signed him to an extension by November.
Exact quote of a text from my cousin, his closing argument against the trade (I just pointed out his OBP):
You can’t build a team on stats. OPS and OBP is a mirage. You have to use your eyes and know who can play and who can’t.
Steel Nick
Brilliant sarcasm.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
He sorta looks like Hideki Matsui…so that’s good right?
by AllenSmith on Jul 28, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know this isn’t a popular opinion around here, but I have to agree somewhat with that, especially regarding OBP. And I have always been a stat guy. But from actually watching the games I’ve concluded that just a raw number with no context can be misleading. I hope Fuku’s ability to not make an out translates into some actual runs.
In short, a more hit driven than BB driven OBP. Santana, who I believe has the potential to be a key component to the next really good Indians team, is a good example. He sports a fine OBP, but has not been terribly productive this year. That’s because he’s not taking full advantage of his opportunities. With runners in scoring position, a walk is good, a hit is better. OBP needs to translate into runs. I hope I’ve clarified this . This is just my opinion from watching the games.
No player takes full advantage of his opportunities.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Few players take full advantage of their opportunities.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Less players take full advantage of their opportunities than we would think.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 28, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Leyritz. He also hit pedestrians, with his car, drunk.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 28, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Oh, the sweet swing of Ben Broussard. I used my eyes, I know he can play!
by Jay on Jul 28, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you saw him open for Hoobastank?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Welcome, Mr. Fukudome" (sung to the tune of "Welcome to the Terrordome" by Public Enemy)
We got so much trouble on our mind
We refuse to lose
Sell more tickets
Hear John Adams get wicked
The Tribe to you to push the back to Red Attack
so we sat and dealt
Then slapped the Mac(Intosh)
Now we’re ready to take it
(You know we like it) huh
Hear our fanatacism roll "Oh"
Never be a outfielder like Kos go solo
Right field lazer anastasia amaze ya
Ways to blaze your brain and train ya fans
The way we’re livin’, forgettin’
What prospects we’re givin’ up
Shap on the flex hit me now
We don’t know about later
As for now we know how to avoid the sports talk radio paranoid
Man we’ve had it up to here
Tribe gear we wear got ‘em goin’ in fear
Keith Law said
Read just a bit ago
Not quittin’ though
Signed the hard runner
Work to keep from gettin’ jerked
Changin’ some ways
To way back in the late ‘90s days
Raw metaphysically bold
Never followed a code
Still dropped a load
Never question what we are God knows
Cause we’re comin’ from the heart
What we got better get on base
(Get on up) hustler on the basepaths
Snakebitten by injuries
Been spit in the face
But the Tribe keep fittin’
Respects been givin’, how’s ya hittin’?
Now we can’t protect a lead with these defects
Check the record
The division an intentional wreck
Played off as some intellect
Ump made the call, took the fall
Broke the laws
Not our fault the Twinks are fallin’ off
Known as fair and square
Throughout our years
So I growl at would-be taters that are foul
Red to the bone our home is your home
So welcome, Mr. Fukudome
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
So cool. An absolutely astounding album.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. It’s the apex of rap music as an art form. Everything before it led to it and it’s been a steady downward spiral since.
I never quite understood why Nation is held up as the best PE album. I think Fear sounds so much better, and has just as many great ideas.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re both great, and parts of Apocalypse are excellent as well.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Fear is by far better. It’s bolder and more varied with it’s social commentary and the musical tracks are more layered and impressive.
I think people get confused because the high points of Nation are better than anything on Fear, but as a collective whole it’s not even close.
“Black Steel” is my favorite hip-hop song of all time.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
HumperdinkSays Oliver Humperdink
Really can’t believe the Indians are trading for an outfielder with 13 RBI’s we already have 2 of those! WTF? #RollTribe #clevelandindians
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
We need to nip this #RollTribe thing in the bud.
by Ryan on Jul 28, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s too late. Cle.com crowd has it and won’t let go.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Oliver Humperdink
Why’d you say that name? You promised me you would never say that name!
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 28, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What, Humperdink? Humperdink! Humperdink! Humperdink!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Eddie Izzard on Englebert Humperdink…..NSFW for language.
If you squint just right....you can sometimes see the ghost of Andy Marte...playing dominoes in the dugout.
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Jul 28, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
#IdiotStats
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You don’t ruin a perfectly good piece of snark with “just kidding.” Amateur move.
by Jay on Jul 28, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jay is just kidding.
Is this the whale section?
by sarcasmdave on Jul 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never know whether to believe you.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jul 28, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
John_in_Euclid John Hornacky
@twithersAP I don’t understand how 3 HR & 13 RBI over 86 games makes #Indians any better. Kearns has better (extrapolated) production!
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
ok but can I post this one from a White Sox fan?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i’m beginning to warm up to this deal. 2 lower level prospects who weren’t likely to make an impact at the major league level for a guy who is much better than kearns or buck. .273 (or whatever it is) is a good BA (even though i know BA is a forbidden stat here) and he has a good OBP and plays above average D. i’ll take that over the kearns/buck platoon any day of the week.
yesterday i was beginning to wonder if it was even worth making a trade and risking our future for a rental, when it looked like even a rental wouldn’t be enough to push this stil-flawed team into the playoffs. but a solid upgrade over kearns for little in return? i’ll take that.
but only 13 RBI? how does that happen?
Leadoff guy on a poor club in the NL
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
One from another angle…
blathernbombast Bob Hartfield
#Indians fans complaining about Fukudome trade? Why don’t you like a guy who can hit with RISP? Prefer the Sizemore/Santana Strikeout bash?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions
Agree with this guy: what a travesty!
Bill_Shea19 Bill Shea
All the #Indians can manage in a trade is a 34-year-old mediocre-hitting Japanese outfielder that the freakin’ Cubs deem expendable? Really?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
I must be the only one who finds these funny.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
A Pale Hoser fan weighs in:
TornadoChaser87 Kristyn
#Cubs #MLB Trade off Kosuke Fukudome to #Indians and IN RETURN GET 2 PROSPECTS..TRIBE’S LITTLE DRUMMER BOY & HIS DRUM LMAO #Sarcastic
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
Yikes.
@castrovince Anthony Castrovince
OK, one last depressing Kosuke Fukudome split for you. Interleague career: .217 AVG, .594 OPS (.286 SLG) in 53 games. #Indians
So…are people going to convince me to like this deal?
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:44 AM EDT reply actions
I assume we gave them 3 bats and a bucket of balls in exchange for him?
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think you have to like it, but it’s a rather low-risk move. If the prospects are correct, the Indians traded a couple lower-tier prospects for a rental that’s a decent upgrade over both Buck and Kearns.
The Indians probably still need another bat.
by Ryan on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
we can do a better job than the people trying to convince you not to.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I can’t see a reason to dislike it. That’s not a great reason to like it, granted, but it’s something.
Only reason I don’t like it is if it’s all they do. If the FO is like “Hey we got Fukudome, there’s your bat!” then I won’t like it. I’d consider it a very minor move, something else needs to be done.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m interested in BJ Upton or Kuroda. Obviously I don’t know what it would cost, but Fukudome doesn’t really fill the need of a RH bat. The fielding in OF should be much improved, but the need for a righty that can inject some life into this lineup is great.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Kuroda. But there are some problems with dealing for him.
1) We will be bidding against the Yankees.
2) He has a no-trade clause which he will have to waive. Which no player ever seems interested in doing for Cleveland.
BJ Upton doesn’t scream to me as a move that is ‘win now’. More of an Alex Rios deal where you hope he turns it around the next season and you got him for cheap.
I believe Fukudome waived his to come here.
Granted, I share you view on the no-trade clause, but I thought I’d point that out.
Has that been confirmed? I know Fukudome had a limited no-trade clause, but no one has specifically said if the Indians did or did not qualify.
MLBTR (who, by the way, did nothing wrong) has a line in the final trade write-up saying that he did and I saw something earlier that said we were one of the 15 or so teams on his no-trade list or whatever.
by painaxl on Jul 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It’s July 28. Why assume this is all they’re going to do?
With that said, the last thing I want is for the FO to make a deal just to make a deal. If it’s a good trade, go for it. Otherwise, sometimes the market just isn’t right.
I’m not assuming that now, I’m just saying that I would be disappointed if that’s how it turns out.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure I agree. Betemit was a much more significant upgrade over Inge (whose OPS was .483 at the time of that trade) than the comparable lift that we could/will see from Fukudome.
If you aren’t convinced afterreading some of the comments in this thread, then you probably won’t be convinced.
This is the perfect deal for the Indians at this point in time for what they could conceivably acquire.
He must be an albatross in the clubhouse.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not really. LaRussa has had issues with a number of younger players. The narrative is that Rasmus listens to his dad’s coaching and ignores the Cardinals coaching. Additionally, LaRussa much prefers a guy who will choke up on the bat with 2 strikes like John Jay instead of all the strikeouts.
The narrative is that Rasmus listens to his dad’s coaching and ignores the Cardinals coaching.
That’s a pretty real issue. If someone came here from Lookout Landing and continued to post using their standards, Jay would trade his butt for pennies on the dollar, too.
by TheDanimal on Jul 28, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The jury is out on whether Rasmus was stolen. There are three PTBNL. And, it seems like St. L was wanting to turn over several players in a package including major league level help now, and dump some salary to prepare to pay Pujols. We never had to give what St. Louis eventually got.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minimum of three years to evaluate a trade.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man I even saw a tweet that has the hashtag #caseyblaketrade!
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions
Fukudome leads the NL in pitches per at bat
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
Cool. Can he teach the rest of the Tribe how to work counts?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is this true? If so, that makes me feel good.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of his bad reputation comes from the Cubs paying a crapload of money for him That’s their problem, though. He’s really solid. No power and still contributes a lot of value
Steel Nick
That anyone can be so animated against this trade boggles the mind. We gave up nothing of value and we’re paying reportedly $775,000 for a guy who gets on base and is a decent defender.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
Although fangraphs suggests he’s having an unusually poor year in the outfield, an outlier for what seems like a typically average glove.
Steel Nick
Noted. Anyone have anything anecdotal?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 28, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there was one time in Toledo when I threw honeydew melons and Kosuke caught about half of ’em.
Decent chance that happened.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 29, 2011 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
131 plays inzone this year. You wouldn’t judge a player on 131 PA, right?
by rockemsockem on Jul 28, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
A friend just pointed out that perhaps Orlando could be an option for the Brewers now that Weeks is out. God that would be so great.
Steel Nick
Why? What am I missing? We have plenty of infielders. Why not call up Donald if they want infield help?
Most of the IFs (at least the ones not named Asdrubal) can’t hit.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Twitter rumors flying that Indians are interested in LGFT Jamey Carroll
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Matt Kemp is what I’m hearing
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
2008 Manny Ramirez too?
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually I’m just getting word from trusted sources that we may be working on a mega package for Kershaw and Kemp…
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guys, Carroll/Kemp/Kuroda/Kershaw for Orlando doesn’t seem like a fair trade. NONE of those guys have the playoff pedigree of Cabrera.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Is there any chance we can trade Cabrera for Upton, but switch BJ for Justin? Think they would notice?
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
They may have to throw in cash.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
but we’d lose so much leadership.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
….which is a heavy indication of leadershipyness.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 29, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you implying that someone would PAY us to take Orlando Cabrera?
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d cry with joy.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He just wins everywhere he goes!
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
If we trade him we won’t make the playoffs.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
The worst part is that there would be actual announcers like John Kruk who would be claiming that’s the reason we didn’t make it.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 28, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Trademark.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 28, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t love it, but will like it a lot more if those are non-prospects.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
the best prospect we gave up is an OF prospect who hasn’t had an OBP above .300 in almost 2 years in kinston.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
at 11:55 AM nobody was quite sure
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Carlton Smith and Abner Abreu? Okay. That’s fine
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Jim Bowden is tweeting this…
Chicago Cubs source has confirmed that the Cubs have acquired OF Abner Abreu, P Carlton Smith from the Cleveland Indians for Fukodome & cash
Abreu could turn out to be something, but he has to move really quickly, and the odds are stacked against him given his SO/BB ratios.
Don’t really consider Smith a prospect.
hasn’t he been better lately, presumably at the time the Cubs saw him?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Except I don’t think they know what “statistically significant” means.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Guy hit a triple July 23. What’s not to like!
by madherb on Jul 28, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Everyone thinks it means less Buck/Kearns, and that may very well be true. But I also think it’s possible that it’s Carrera that gets sent down instead.
You still need a backup center fielder, though. I guess Buck gets option, Durbin DFAd, and one of the AAA relievers recalled.
I think I’d prefer to option Zeke instead of Buck, but either way, Durbin’s probably gone.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I don’t need to see Buck again for the rest of this year.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Can people just attribute their claims here with a simple hyperlink?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
My life needs to get more interesting, not less.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You decide how interesting Twitter is to you, and nobody else. that’s is beauty.
You are reading my signature.
Feh. At least he can play defense.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
and improve our team speed.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
and draw Japanese fans to the ballpark.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 28, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve called a couple people out for claiming he’s fast, but do you have any proof that he’s not – aside from not stealing a lot of bags? Not criticizing, legitimately curious.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
If a 34-year-old averages 6 steals a year, I just assume he’s not fast. If anyone has reports saying otherwise I’ll admit i’m just assuming.
Steel Nick
Fangraphs has him at -2.2 BSR, whatever the hell that is. If someone with a BP account can look up his BRR, that’d be cool.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m arranging a race of Japaneses 34 year-olds, to get some benchmarks.
by afh4 on Jul 28, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
he seems to be a smart baserunner who might not get steals, but gets bases through his baserunning.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Matt Laporta gets bases through his basewalking.
by Chemo on Jul 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
-2.2 Bsr per Fangraphs and -1.5 EQBRR per BP. Also, he takes the extra base 25% of the time on hits by teammates. The National League average is 41%.
by rockemsockem on Jul 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Acquiring Fukudome is by no means a splash, but that’s not what the Indians needed. They needed someone who upgraded on their current outfield, and Fukudome is certainly that. When he puts on an Indians jersey tonight he’ll represent one of their four best active players, and by this year’s numbers he’s their best active performer in the outfield. It’s tough to make that kind of acquisition without it being a huge move. But the Indians found someone who represents and upgrade, and they moved quickly. He might not bring all the tools they need to upgrade, but considering the market and the Indians current position, he was probably the best option available. Things could get better, still, if Sizemore or Choo makes it back in time to help for a September push.
Fangraphs, a nice blurb to show to anyone complaining.
Steel Nick
He won’t put on an Indians jersey tonight
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS DEBUNKS THE ENTIRE THING.
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, haha. I’m just messing
Owner of FearTheSword
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Jul 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me I took no offense. Just sayin
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The writer apparently hadn’t watched Sizemore v2 or v3 this year.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore 2011 v1 was the only good one, right?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, see, I thought Sizemore prior was v1 and the early 2011 Sizemore was v2 and when he came back from the knee he was v3. Look, he’s still in beta anyway, we’ll hammer this all out before the final release.
by painaxl on Jul 28, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I don’t get it. You have a lot more depth in the bullpen than you do in the outfield. Why not DFA Durbin and call up Putnam or Judy or whoever?
But the Indians could have optioned Buck to AAA. There isn’t exactly a logjam in the Columbus outfield.
Does Laporta?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 28, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
@MarkShapiro Mark Shapiro
Still working to improve the team with other additions. We feel this will help us but hope to make others as well.
You are reading my signature.
Gentlemen, I think you are overlooking the most important part of this deal.
We got ourselves an ALL STAR.
by emd2k3 on Jul 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Why on earth are people copying and pasting comments from clecom? I come here so I don’t have to read that nonsense.
What is the point?
by NickFantana on Jul 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This better not be the only thing this team does. Not too happy but there isn’t much out there anyway so its not bad.
by danmang on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
courtesy of the guy i took aim at yesterday
ConradMorgan23 @MarkShapiro Keep working..Pence hint hint & please do not get the L.A. pitcher
READ THIS SHAPIRO!
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I think that guy might be a racist
by Roger Dorn on Jul 28, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t want to ask why he doesn’t want “the LA pitcher” … somehow he managed to misinterpret what I sent him yesterday. Pretty funny actually… he thought I was proving his point for him.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I’ll go on record as not disliking this trade.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
Courtesy of a Jon Morosi tweet…
#Indians are continuing to show interest in Jamey Carroll, source says. #Dodgers
Why would we do this?
If the cost was similar to what we gave up for Fukudome, why wouldn’t we do this?
It represents an upgrade and more flexibility over what our current roster provides. I would much rather have Jamey Carroll at the plate in the 8th inning of a tight game than a young kid like Chisenhall or Kipnis. IMO.
would not give up anything near Abreu for Carroll.
A) we can call up Donald
B) taking $$ off of LA’s hands could be enough
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I’m a little late to the party. Two thoughts:
a) As people have said, no reason to be negative on this deal unless the tribe FO is acting like this is their statement of intent. As a smart, small upgrade, it appears to be a shrewd move.
b) Who are the essential Indians-related people to follow on twitter?
Shapiro and MacTriber are definitely worth a follow. Of the ML players, I like Chris Perez and Trevor Crowe the best.
it’s not the most comprehensive list, but it’s my list:
could probably use some updating.
You are reading my signature.
There is also this rumor floating around about Ubaldo Jimenez, from WFNY.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
So……Acta should give this a go:
1-RF: Fukudome
2-2B: Kipnis
3-SS: A Cabrera
4-DH: Hafner
5-1B: Santana
6-CF: Brantley
7-3B: Chisenhall
8-C: Marson
9-LF: Carrera
?
Definitely an improvement. What happens when Sizemore and Choo return??
i think swap brantley and kipnis.
am i the only one that loves how often brantley seems to get on base?
am i the only one that loves how often brantley seems to get on base?
If only they kept track of this type of thing.
by rockemsockem on Jul 28, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Not that lineup construction matters, but I don’t like having Kip at #2.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
We win.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jul 28, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Indians “strongly in the mix” for Jimenez
http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/indians_pursuing_jimenez/5765068?new_post=true
I would love this, but only if we could get away without dealing any of white, pom, chiz, or kip, which i think is highly unlikely
I’d give up any one of those guys for Jimenez.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never understood why COL wants to trade him…
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the big four almost has to be part of a Jimenez deal. Maybe get creative and send Carmona to Colorado, along with Alex White and one of the second-tier prospects.
you’e saying Hagadone would be the Laporta?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Pomz has to be in there
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Would wonder why they take Carmona if they want to get rid of Jimenez. Gotta be a “restocking the system” move.
Steel Nick
Somewhere Nick Hagadone is getting really pissed that he’s being compared to Matt LaPorta.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
by Ockus_NYC on Jul 28, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
i was going to suggest this but i have no idea what his value is. RH bat with power… would hate to see him go to Texas and become Cruz.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Kipnis instead of White as the “real guy”?
are we okay with Donald/Phelps going forward at 2b? I think I am.
You are reading my signature.
I’m with you. Donald can provide league average production at 2B and has the ability to play elsewhere if required.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but I’m more comfortable with Donald’s defense.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Splitting hairs, I am.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
…if only he could stay healthier than Nick Johsnon.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what Kipnis’ defensive ceiling is; he’s only been there a little while and seems pretty comfortable.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
we’ve got to keep a guy who can hit and is a fringe gold glover. It’s not the right move to SELL HIGH when his defense could get that much better.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Oh, no, the Chiz is untouchable. Sorry if I said otherwise earlier. We just don’t have a replacement for him at all.
by Jay on Jul 28, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wha? Chiz? Do you mean Kipnis? Somebody recced this?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
yes, because it was the same stance i took in a conversation elsewhere today.
There’s nothing behind Chiz; we kinda need him and need him to be good. I like Kipnis, but if it means bringing in Ubaldo and Donald/Phelps are waiting in the wings, I do it.
You are reading my signature.
Am I the only one who thinks it is ridiculous to keep a pitching prospect over someone who has at least showed SSS success in the majors?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
No, but
I see no reason to trade Pom if they’d take White.
is the qualifier. I’m just ranking Pom and White, not listing them as untouchable.
Steel Nick
We need White in 2011 and 2012. Pom may never make it to the majors. There is no comparison in present-day value.
Ehhh, I get what you’re saying, but I like Pomeranz enough that present-day value isn’t ending this argument for me.
Steel Nick
Well, here is the question, then. We’re one of three teams on pace for ~85 wins. If all three teams were on pace for ~92 wins, would that change your opinion of how highly to value 2011?
If so, can you explain what makes this situation different from that one?
I’m saying, in fighting to keep Pom over White, you’re undervaluing the 2011 and 2012 clubs. These clubs could win the World Series. No, seriously, they could. And Pomeranz probably won’t be helping them do it.
If White we’re making starts from here through the end of the year, I’d agree. But he’s going to be a bullpen guy for about a month. And why can’t Pomeranz get the early call, like White did?
Right, but the issue here was the extremely hypothetical situation where we basically get to pick one of Pom or White to send to Colorado, and the Rockies will take either one. So you’re saying that the loss of White, even with the addition of Ubaldo, is enough to potentially cost us the playoffs this year and next? If that’s the case, I don’t agree. I think if White gets you Ubaldo, I do it and hang on to the higher-ceiling player.
Steel Nick
I realize this can’t be viewed in a vacuum, and that’s why it can’t be anything but hypothetical. But in reality we have no idea what kind of package it takes, or that subtracting Pomeranz means adding Kipnis.
Steel Nick
You’re right, but we have to talk about something.
by emd2k3 on Jul 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How am I supposed to know the exact “costs us the playoffs” threshold? If we knew that, all of this would be easy.
I’m saying, there isn’t enough of a gap between the two to justify giving up White’s marginal value to the big-league club specifically for 2011 and 2012.
That’s what I was trying to understand from you. Got it. I think it’s just the question of that gap. I’m very high on Pomeranz, so I guess I think there is enough of a difference.
I want to stress that I’m not saying I don’t include Pomeranz in a package to the Rockies. I’d just prefer not to.
Steel Nick
Ubaldo would make a huge difference this year and beyond.
by jakesinger777 on Jul 28, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the argument ender: We’re not getting this guy without giving up Kipnis, Chisenhall or Pomeranz. One of them is getting included, and we know it won’t be Chisenhall.
Pomeranz is the only way you keep Kipnis out of the deal, and you still get to keep White.
Isn’t Pomeranz a 2010 draftee? I didn’t think those guys could be traded until a year had elapsed.
by ken from alexandria on Jul 28, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure June 2010 was more than a year ago.
by FredOx on Jul 28, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Has to be a year after signing, not being drafted. So technically he would have to be a PTBNL if he were actually moved.
"Ok everyone listen up! I've just invited Dave to suck it!"
I’ll take your word for it, but all of the summaries of Rule 12 that I’ve seen say that a player can’t be traded within a year of being taken, whatever that means.
I remember that he signed right at the August 15 deadline. But yeah, GoTribe028 is right that the PTBNL gambit would work in any case.
by ken from alexandria on Jul 28, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
here are my 2 caveats that may or may not be enough:
- white’s recent injury
- white’s MLB service time
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
He’s back there, you just have to look in the outfield.
by emd2k3 on Jul 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
White. I think Pomeranz has the better upside.
by Ryan on Jul 28, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes. Would prefer Pomeranz to go. White has reached MLB.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Pomz is closer to being ready than you guys think. He could pitch next April, too.
White has a troubling injury history. Who knows who’s the better bet for next year.
by jhon on Jul 28, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How does he pitch next April without a third quality pitch?
And what are his innings limitations if he does pitch then?
Same way White would without a second quality pitch.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 28, 2011 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But he has a longer way to go, doesn’t he? More uncertainty. If I want to keep people who will help us this year and in the next two years, I go with White as the safer bet. And not a “safer bet” as in, Jeremy Sowers; still a very good prospect with potential to be a 1-3 starter.
"By being the manager and just playing whoever I want." - Acta on how he would choose to split playing time between Kearns and Buck.
I almost feel like you just don’t get an Ubaldo without giving up a Pomeranz. The other club has to be able to say, this guy will be our next Ubaldo.
So if Pomeranz is the top draw, what else does Colorado need?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If they want leadership, we have got someone for them
by McWahoo on Jul 28, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Phelps, one of our high upside relievers, and PTBNL (or 2)??
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s an article explaining why the Rockies might trade Jimenez.
The Rockies, as each disturbing loss bears out, have a lot of gaps to fill, namely at third base, catcher and multiple spots in the rotation.
I wonder if Pomeranz, Chun-Hsiu Chen, one of our AAA relievers, McAllister, Donald, and a PTBNL would get it done.
"By being the manager and just playing whoever I want." - Acta on how he would choose to split playing time between Kearns and Buck.
Depends on who the PTBNL was. I can’t recall the last 6-for-1 deal I saw, but that might just be because I don’t pay much attention.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Whoa, I didn’t realize it was 6-for-1 until you commented. I didn’t count, just wrote some names that came to me while reading the article.
I do think we have depth to cover for the losses, and it would be trading high on Chen and perhaps McAllister.
"By being the manager and just playing whoever I want." - Acta on how he would choose to split playing time between Kearns and Buck.
So in this scenario, our rotation next year looks like this:
Masterson
Jimenez
Carrasco
Tomlin
White/Huff/Gomez/Fausto/McAllister/Barnes (take out Fausto or McAllister, whichever one would be traded)
That’s a pretty good-looking rotation, with depth.
Talbot could be in AAA, or the long man, if he’s still around.
Do Huff and Fausto have options remaining?
"By being the manager and just playing whoever I want." - Acta on how he would choose to split playing time between Kearns and Buck.
Would think the reliever would have to be Hagadone, and PTBNL would have to be high upside starter for Rockies to even consider.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 29, 2011 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Knapp?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 29, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
People are vastly overrating these prospects if they aren’t willing to give up at least one for Jiminez. He’s a true front-of-rotation starter, and he’s dirt cheap through ’12 with two wayyyy under-market club options for ’13 and ’14.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 28, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, probably. I’m a big fan of that contract.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think one might have to. His contract is crazy-good — it’s like picking up a second Masterson, only with a longer track record.
Ubaldo’s injury history, meanwhile, is phenomenal. It doesn’t appear that he’s missed a single start for the past seven years.
2002 – rookie league – 14 starts
2003 – low minors – 27 starts
2004 – Advanced-A – 9 starts
2005 – A+ and AA – 25 starts
2006 – high minors – 26 starts
2007 – AAA + MLB + postseason – 37 starts
2008 – majors – 34 starts
2009 – MLB + postseason – 35 starts
2010 – majors – 33 starts
2011 – majors – 20 starts and counting
Oh, I absolutely agree. I don’t see how we can’t give up a ton of value, enough that even the cle.commers will think we overpaid. Can Kipnis and White get him? I’d still substitute Pomeranz in for White there if need be. I love Kipnis, but we’ve got a couple guys in Donald and Phelps who should be adequate at 2B, and as good as Pomeranz/White have looked, they can’t be considered an adequate replacement for a #1 starter yet.
That is an interesting question, for those who covet Pomeranz.
You still trade Pomeranz-Phelps rather than White-Kipnis, right?
Yes. I’m still enamored with Pomeranz, and think he can help next year, just like White could have this year, but thats an easy answer.
Just because White excelled this season and was able to contribute doesn’t mean that Pomeranz will follow that same precocious trajectory — even if Pom does have the higher ceiling, he may not get there as fast.
I see Pom as a long-shot to help in 2012, just as White was a long-shot to help in 2011. White beat the odds, but the trend doesn’t change.
If the Indians converted Pomeranz to the bullpen, he’d be a useful reliever right now with his fastball/curve combo. I agree though that he’s probably 12 months away from contributing as a starter.
I don’t think White was a long-shot to help this year. Maybe that early, but it seemed like, even without injuries, he would get a chance to contribute in the second half. Pomeranz is a bit more highly regarded, and SSS and whatnot, the fact that he is keeping up the strikeouts in AA makes me think he can move at least as quickly as White did.
220, 221, whatever it takes.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He went on the DL this year after his first start. Cut cuticle on the thumb of his pitching hand. Speculation is that is the reason he pitched so poorly opening day. Once he got back into the swing of things, he actually pitched much better: 3.09 ERA from May 17 until his most recent start.
I’m not the least bit worried about his 2011 numbers. I think he is what his career numbers say he is.
Plus he’d go from the most hitter friendly park in the league to one of the most pitcher friendly parks in the league. Granted, you can almost make this a wash, as he’d no longer get to feed of opposing pitcher as automatic outs. But might count for something.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, I know he only pitches at home roughly 50% of the time, but I figured that was a given.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not arguing the numbers. Ubaldo is great. I saw him pitch in Denver, and the guy is a real monster. Just repeating some things my Rockies fan friends said.
Perhaps this belongs more as a reply to your (non)injury history comment, but you don’t even think twice about his MPH being way down this year? It’s almost a full 3 mph on the fastbll and slider. Diff between FB and CH has gone from 8.4 mph to 7 and his SwStk% is at a career low by far.
I also think that tougher competition he’d face in general with the Indians compared to Colorado would neutralize most of the uptick in numbers we’d expect to see moving out of Coors Field. He’s a great pitcher and should be in his prime over the next 3 years, but I think if we mortgage the farm system expecting a Cy Young winner, we’re going to be disappointed.
I’ll have to look more at the mph.
I’m not expecting a Cy Young winner. I’m expecting a durable 1-2 starter under cheap contract for a few years.
Not to mention a big name to get fickle fans to the park.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d gladly give up Pom for Jimenez. That’s a helluva team friendly contract through 2014.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you. someone had to do it.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t even remember which side of that we were on
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
All recent:
RBI double: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17023457
Good catch? (HIRE NEW CAMERAMEN OMG THAT’S GARZA) http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16875165
and a nice throw; http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16818671
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Nobody is probably home doing rehab.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
the trade deadine is so much more fun when you aren’t selling
by tr1betime on Jul 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
New Indians lineup:
1. Hitter
2. Hitter
3. Hitter
4. Hitter
5. Semi-Hitter
6. Semi-Hitter
7. Semi-Hitter
8. Old Person
9. Wet Noodle
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jul 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 15 recs
I cried.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to see it again, and again, and again.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
PH. Guy swinging a wet newspaper.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This just keeps getting better in our favor.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s the show-stopper. Unless he really really doesn’t want to come back, he’s not going to get close to what he’s making now.
where did that snippet go about the November deadline? And how does that fit in?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
The Indians have to release him if they don’t sign him to an extension by the middle of November.
Actually, I’m not even sure they could offer him arbitration if they release him.
Yeah, something doesn’t make sense there. How can you release a guy and receive draft compensation?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
MLBastian @patsfb Sounds like [the Nov deadline] no longer applies.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
But you don’t get compensation for non-tendering a guy, which basically is what this is. You get compensation because a guy qualifies for free agency — which he doesn’t — and then leaves.
Agreed. Why’s he want to unload Ubaldo in the first place?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He is getting beat up pretty badly this year at home. So that’s partial consideration, I guess.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
.310 BAA to go with a 5.55 ERA and a WHIP of 1.67 in COL.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
His BABIP has also risen more than 50 points at home this year compared to last. I’m not quite sure I can explain that.
Steel Nick
While his road BAA and BABIP are lower than they’ve ever been. Quirk of looking at a subset of a partial season, maybe. Strangely enough, his 2011 home numbers almost precisely mirror his 2008 road numbers. In any case, this is a guy with a body of work that suggests he’ll be a stud through the rest of his contract.
Funny green paper with numbers on it.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He’d help us out even more if he could persuade Todd Helton to play for us for three months. We could agree now to trade him back at season’s end, so he could be back in time for ski season.
Rosenthal is reporting the White Sox are looking at a Carlos Quentin to Atlanta trade. I like that move for the Tribe, for now and into the future.
You would be wrong
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Nooo. Of course the Sox will fire sale away
3 games back in this division. That makes a whole bunch of sense.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
So there is no difference between selling for next year and a fire sale? Well, now that I have your intelligence judged, I feel better about how this situation will go.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
What? huh?
There is an obvious difference between a little salary relief and selling off. Not quite sure what intelligence has to do with it.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Depends upon the arms coming back.
And Quentin is only pulling $5m this season. If they wanted salary relief, they’d ship Rios out, but he’s getting benched.
And exactly who are they shipping Rios out to? Its an unmovable contract.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
You’re missing the point. Fire sales move contracts, signal rebuilding – white flags on the horizons. You don’t have to give up to be sellers.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I understand the point. Fine you really didn’t mean fire sale. My point is the deal was made to clear a bit of space in an area of obvious strength and move out Teahen. It might actually allow the White Sox to pick up a piece. Unless KW is blown away Quentin is not going anywhere. You may see Thornton move.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Wow, you guys were basically dicks to this guy, for no reason.
Benefit of the doubt, people. Let’s ease up a little until malice and/or stupidity can be established CLEARLY. This ain’t Lookout Landing, you know.
I was a bit harsh, you’re right. My apologies if he is still reading.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
that was my first thought….nice sig.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 29, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand what you mean.
We require subject iines for photos and pictures. Are you saying you require one for text?
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Via ESPN...
Now that the Indians have agreed to a deal for Kosuke Fukudome, they’re turning their attention to starting pitching (Jimenez, Kuroda, Jeremy Guthrie and others). But GM Chris Antonetti says they’re trying to be as “mindful of the long-term costs of trying to do that” as possible. An executive of one club that has spoken with them reports the Indians have “four names they won’t talk about at all.” If you guessed those four are Drew Pomeranz, Alex White, Lonnie Chisenhall and Jason Kipnis, there’s an excellent chance you’d be right.
<a href="http://• Now that the Indians have agreed to a deal for Kosuke Fukudome, they’re turning their attention to starting pitching (Jimenez, Kuroda, Jeremy Guthrie and others). But GM Chris Antonetti says they’re trying to be as “mindful of the long-term costs of trying to do that” as possible. An executive of one club that has spoken with them reports the Indians have “four names they won’t talk about at all.” If you guessed those four are Drew Pomeranz, Alex White, Lonnie Chisenhall and Jason Kipnis, there’s an excellent chance you’d be right." target="new">Article
Don't be afraid to fight for your rights!
Post fail. Sorry. Link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings110728/san-diego-padres-narrowing-focus-potential-deals
Don't be afraid to fight for your rights!
GET JIMENEZ WITHOUT DEALING ONE OF THOSE 4 AND I WILL SEND YOU FLOWERS, CHRIS
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
GET JIMENEZ WITHOUT DEALING ONE OF THOSE 4 AND I WILL BE YOU FLOWER, CHRIS
Too far?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I’ll bake him a damned cake if he can do that. But it probably would be terrible, so maybe not.
“An executive of one club” could be any of 28 clubs but not the Rockies. In other words, the Rockies may be the one club to whom they’re willing to talk about those four players.
GET JIMENEZ WITHOUT DEALING TWO OF THOSE 4 AND I WILL SEND YOU SOME GREAT LAKES BEER, CHRIS
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This Onley tweet says it will take three top prospects to get Ubaldo. Unless the Rockies have an unusual definition of “top”, I don’t see the Indians getting him.
As an aside, isn’t it cool that we got Haren/Weaver/Santana and the Tigers get Pineiro/Chatwood/Haren? 7-6 Angels in the 4th. Detroit was getting killed but their WE has gone from just over 10% to just under 50%.
Steel Nick
If it inspired the brass to go get a stick or two then yes, it was cool.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
dammit last I knew, it was 7-2.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I prefer a guy who actually want to catch batted balls.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
YOUBALTO NEEDS TO BE IN UNIFORM TONIGHT READ THIS ANTONIOLI
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
MLBastian
Rumors that Indians asked for Fukudome’s 8th-inning single from Wednesday as part of trade are false. Santana’s no-hitter survives.
by Harry Doyle on Jul 28, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I wish it was August 1st already, I had caring about the trade deadline
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
I wish it were August 1 also. I’d have my paycheck.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some schmo on Bleacher Report thinks the Indians could maybe get the Ubaldo deal done with McAllister, Wegz and Gardner. If that doesn’t convince everyone here to never read BR…
I would drive to Cleveland and personally take Antonetti out to dinner.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Some people don’t take the time.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 28, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I’m happy there are some other SJs fans on this board.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 29, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
stop trying to make us your little foot soldiers.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Jul 28, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree. Two more people really need to rec this.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
by Joel D on Jul 28, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCb17psf8A
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
BR quality is all over the map. Saying someone shouldn’t read it is like saying someone shouldn’t read the Internet.
MarkShapiro
Lots of passion + advice in tweets. Trades never as easy to make as it seems. We know we need to do more. Deadline should help. Stay tuned.
I wonder if anyone loves this as much as I do. Social media is a thing of beauty.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the same rumor mill that started all this also claims that the Reds offer of Bailey, Wood, Mesoroco and Chapman was not enough. Them some solid pieces.
Wow, the Reds were talking Bailey? That’s semi-ridiculous, he has a ton of upside
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 28, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
“The Reds, previously thought to be the most solid possibility, have balked at the Rockies’ asking price — starting pitchers Travis Wood and Homer Bailey and either hard-throwing lefty Aroldis Chapman or catching prospect Devin Mesoraco " from Colorodo’s MLB website.
So it was not both Chapman and Mesoroco.
It also doesn’t say the Reds were offering that.
Sorry for misinformation.
A source told MLB.com on Wednesday that the Yankees have emerged as a front-runner among teams interested. The Reds, previously thought to be the most solid possibility, have balked at the Rockies’ asking price — starting pitchers Travis Wood and Homer Bailey and either hard-throwing lefty Aroldis Chapman or catching prospect Devin Mesoraco — and are focusing on the Rays’ James Shields.
Reports indicated Wednesday that the Indians jumped in as a possibility, joining the Blue Jays and Tigers. The Rangers, mentioned early in the process, are concentrating on acquiring bullpen help.
With all the reports come a caveat — the Rockies will not come down on their price of Major League pitching, with at least one young hitter who is ready to step in and become a big part of the future. The fact the Rockies are refusing to barter has led to speculation that the trade talks are a trial balloon to see what teams are willing to give up and not the result of a the Rockies having a burning desire to discard their ace. But if a team blinks, Jimenez could be gone.
Steel Nick
The price is too steep, if that’s accurate.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m really surprised there’s any feeling it would be any cheaper than that. He might be one of the 10 most valuable assets in baseball, right? He’s Carmona post 2007, with a longer track record, with just as good an extension.
Yeah, just yesterday it seemed obvious that the price would be much too high. But then those rumors start flying around, which, for all we know, are close to being entirely made up by reporters.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would they want Fausto?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Kipnis, then?
Trombone/creamy/soda.
by Joel D on Jul 28, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
the Rockies will not come down on their price of Major League pitching, with at least one young hitter who is ready to step in and become a big part of the future.
Steel Nick
Right. A comparable is Fausto, and two of Pomeranz/White/Kipnis.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Though I still think Fausto isn’t good enough to tempt them.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 28, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, they need a body to take Jimenez’s slot. I guess that’s what Homer Bailey represents from the Reds perspective. Perhaps Bailey has more upside than Carmona, but he’s never pitched like Carmona 2007.
Neither will Carmona, in all likelihood.
by jakesinger777 on Jul 28, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn it, don’t you people know that if we take this seriously and agree on an official LGT proposal, Antonetti will forward it to O’Dowd?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 28, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dude… the name change?
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 28, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to lie, I’m really glad you asked. Brad and I just had our Xavier basketball blog picked up by SBN. In keeping with the fact that we wrote under our first names at our Blogger site, we had them change our SBN tags for continuity’s sake. We’re pretty excited about joining up here.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Excellent news! Congrats!
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2011 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Major league pitching. Show them a video of the bug game.
by jakesinger777 on Jul 28, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I feel better now
Wow, after reading all the nice things posted about this guy (Fukudome) I feel horrible about the terrible sinking feeling I got when I read about this deal.
Corner outfield maybe.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jul 28, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If what they want is two pitchers who can step into the lineup (+/-) a lefty reliever and a bat, I got the deal:
SP in MLB with first round (supp.) pedigree? Huff.
SP who has tasted MLB? Gomez.
LH power reliever? Hagadone.
Bat. Phelps.
Done deal.
Where’s the phone?
I’d give them Talbot over Huff if they would take it. If not, I would do that.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
You mean you’d trade our table scraps for their team-controlled ace? Brilliant!
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Didn’t say I’d stop there, did I? Just saying I would be behind that idea. In other words, duh.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Didn’t say I’d stop there, did I?
Sorry. When you said “done deal,” I somehow got the impression that you were stopping there.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Fair enough, though you did say you’d try to swap Talbot in for Huff if they’d take it, but otherwise you’d do DocNo’s deal.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Anyone else thinking that having Fukadome with the tribe might induce Kuroda to waive his no-trade to Cleveland? It might be nice to have fellow countryman on the roster…
Sources say #Phillies and #Braves are on Pence, #Indians still involved. Chances of deal better than 50/50. #Astros
possible that the more Wade waits, the less he gets? Morosi’s other tweet said more likely than not that Pence is gone by the deadline.
You are reading my signature.
Better than Federal League ones, I guess.
by emd2k3 on Jul 28, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is known as Dellichaelsphobia. There is no known cure.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 29, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Doing his best Jim Bowden not trading Alfonso Soriano impression?
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 29, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Still don’t understand why anyone dislikes this trade. Two things I like about it: marginal upgrade for no cost and, more importantly, it’s an admission by the Cubs that they overpaid absurdly for a massive failure. Suck it, Cubs.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
Fox sports is saying Pence is now more likely to be traded than not and, somewhat mystifyingly (at least to me), we are still in the running.
Learned they couldn’t get what the asked for? Maybe they read Jay’s criticisms and have lowered the asking price?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I think that is basically what has happened, although I doubt they read anything that I wrote. They realized they don’t have any reason to hold onto him, even though not much is going to be offered. A low asking price is by far the likeliest reason for a press report to say he’s “more likely than not” to be traded.
Has anyone thought of trading Tomlin and some pieces for Jimenez? Supposedly they do want a starter or two. i think Pomz could be good. While we would be trading away Tomlin, we would be getting a better pitcher back in return. I think Tomlin is pretty close to his peak. I think he’ll get better but probably never be anything more than a very good #3 starter. Ubaldo you can plug in at the #2 spot easily.
I think even with all this, Tomlin probably has more trade value than pomz. I remember on one of the trade threads, someone saying they wanted someone they can put into their rotation. I think we could get it done with Tomlin and pieces. maybe mccallister, or a AA/AAA reliever who is somewhat expendable, or Chun Chen.
I know Pomz hasn’t proven himself, but I would say that trading away a proven guy is only an issue if you get back an unproven guy.
Its hard to gauge using these rumors what exactly they want, however.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I wouldn’t want him as a centerpiece for a trade, but I read a rumor on here that they wanted a proven guy. I would love it if it happened, but its unrealistic.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Tomlin would also wilt like a delicate flyball-inducing flower in that ballpark.
by ameliorate on Jul 29, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
Rec for imagery.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 29, 2011 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with TKilbane from up earlier in the thread…Jimenez isn’t the same guy he was since last year’s AS break. Of course, if he was throwing like he did in the first half of 2010, he probably wouldn’t be potentially available. I don’t think I’d give up a big package of Pomeranz plus others. And I agree that anything less and the Rockies probably won’t trade him, because they aren’t pressured to do so.
by TribeJay on Jul 29, 2011 8:09 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Bedard comes off the DL and starts tonight for the Mariners. I know a few teams are interested in him; I’m a little surprised the Indians aren’t. There’s the injury risk, of course, but he’s also on a cheap one-year deal and has actually been great so far.
Steel Nick
Good shout. They have to move him, right?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
JackZ might insist on throwing in Ichiro, knowing Indians need outfielders. Ichiro then proceeds to attempt to punch himself in the face, somehow injuring Bedard in the process, setting off a chain of tragicomic events. Indians probably ought to pass on Bedard.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Jul 29, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
That was my caveat, that basically the Indians have to bet on 2+ healthy months. But the peripherals suggest that when he’s on the mound this might be one of his best years since the Mariners traded for him. Striking people out at the third-highest rate of his career, walks are way down, and his BABIP is consistent with most of his career.
I have half a mind to make a new FanPost.
Steel Nick
Other than the “o”, what’s so compelling about it?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 29, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
royalsreview Royals Review
If Moore is really asking for a #3 starter for Francoeur or Melky, he’s completely insane. Colby Rasmus brought back a #3 starter.
What about a potential future #3? McAllister?
Steel Nick
Your new .370 OBP right fielder is batting 6th tonight behind…. Orlando Cabrera. Orlando Cabrera, batting 5th.
Steel Nick
!@#*ing jesus. REALLY!?
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 29, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
[redacted, climbing water tower with rifle]
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Jul 29, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know why people keep being surprised by this. It’s not that Orlando has compromising photos of Manny Acta, and it’s not that Acta has substantially more faith in Orlando. It’s that Acta is a big believer in batter-pitcher matchups, compromised though they are by tiny sample sizes. For future reference, you can schedule your outrage in advance.
The rest of the lineup is Kearns, Hannahan and Marson, so aren’t we really arguing over Fukudome and Cabrera? I mean, personally, I think Orlando should bat noneth, but whether he bats fifth instead of sixth isn’t likely to be a game-changer.
by FredOx on Jul 29, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He is a big believer in batter-pitcher matchups, but he also has a lot of faith in OCab. I was running through some old Tribe pre-game shows on the DVR (I’m behind), and they asked Acta about OCab’s bases-clearing double in Baltimore the prior night. Acta talked about how Cabrera has a lot of experience in those situations and been on a lot of playoff teams. And then he said, “regardless of his batting average, I feel good when he’s up in those situations.”
That last comment may make some heads explode in here.
I’ve heard him say things related to this in the past. Others here have either disagreed with me or claimed he’s saying that just to protect OCab, but I really think he believes it. I think people disagree with me because they want Acta to be the progressive-thinking manager they view him to be. I think he largely is, but he has some old-school veteran love in him like most baseball people. I’m not going to kill him for that, because if I had been in baseball on a daily basis for the past 20-some years like he has, I might feel that way too.
He’s not going to hit him fifth against a righty, but I think he’ll either be 2nd or 5th against a lefty the way the roster is now, and if Marson is playing that night.
Jeanmar + Germano + OCab for good measure = Ubaldo. I like it, someone call Antonetti!
by tribefan2510 on Jul 29, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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