Game 103: Royals 12, Indians 0
by Ryan on Jul 29, 2011 11:22 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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Nice way to follow up Wednesday's no-hitter, huh?
The first thing to talk about was the incident in the fourth inning. Carlos Carrasco was tossing meatballs aplenty, and after Alex Gordon was walked to load the bases, he threw Melky Cabrera a 90ish fastball on the inner half of the plate. Cabrera murdered it, stopped to watch his handiwork, and then jogged around the bases. Carrasco seemed frustrated all night, and the combination of the grand slam with the pose sent him over the edge. His next pitch was at Billy Butler's head, and he was immediately tossed by the home plate umpire. The benches cleared half-heartedly, Carrasco left the field, and that was that. I'm going to guess Carrasco will be suspended for his next start, and deservedly so; throwing at somebody's head is one of the biggest no-nos in baseball, no matter what the provocation. Cabrera posed, yes, but a lot of other hitters do it to. And even if you wanted to send a message, there's much better ways of doing it than what Carrasco did.
Secondly, the offense sucked. Jeff Francis this season has allowed 10.6 hits per 9 innings, and has a 84 ERA+ (4.65 ERA), and he looked like Jamie Moyer pitching to the Indians. Manny Acta put Orlando Cabrera in the lineup because he's had success against Francis in the past, and that hunch worked: Orlando went 1-for-3 with a walk against the Kansas City left-hander with a walk. The rest of the lineup, in 28 plate appearances, reached base three times.
In other news, Kosuke Fukudome made his Indians debut, starting in right field, and that's probably where he'll remain until Shin-Soo Choo returns. Choo is a couple of weeks ahead of schedule, and may possibly be back by mid-August. Of course, the way the Indians are playing, that may be too late to salvage the season.
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| O. Cabrera | .016 | Carrasco | -.334 |
| Fireworks | BOOM | A. Cabrera | -.042 |
| Dollar Dogs | YUM | Fukudome | -.034 |
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Comments
Well, I’ve calmed down a bit, but I’m still going to crucify Carlos Carrasco.
Yeah, he had bad stuff and bad command. He had nothing. And yes, Melky Cabrera (!) posed. But his reaction to that was awful. Unbelievably immature. This is the major leagues – you don’t do that, period. If they were out of the race, I’d be in favor of sending him down to Columbus. Frankly, that still may be a consideration, but it’s probably rash.
As you know, his mental toughness has been continually questioned. Many people on this blog were tired of hearing that and strongly disagreed with that position. I tended to agree with that, thinking that the big innings were due more to mechanical problems out of the stretch. Well, I was wrong. The Yankee game and tonight are enough evidence for me. And the ones on this blog with self-righteous opinions on this topic were dead wrong. And now we’ll hear more of the “mental toughness” stuff for awhile.
Acta said that Carrasco was talked to by Belcher. I would’ve loved to have been a fly on that wall.
I still like Carrasco’s future. I like a lot of what he’s done this year. But it’s still his first full year, and I think we might have to wait a couple years before he can be counted on to be a middle-of-the-rotation starter (maybe more). Until then, we’ll only see his future in flashes.
Not to self harp, but I recall saying that, he’d probably be fine in most appearances, but that when the pressure was on in particular his track record indicates that he’d be more likely than the average pitcher to react emotionally in a negative way. His personality just dictates this, he can learn to manage it better, but he’ll always have to work on it as opposed to the average baseball pitcher that could manage his emotions better under duress.
Personality is basically set by your early twenties.
I’m sorry, but this is stupid. You think the big innings he gave up were all automatically due to some emotional issue, and you have enough evidence to know it? You do realize that Masterson and Sabathia and every pitcher struggles at times, right? For a variety of reasons, often mechanical or luck or both?
You’re conflating some things here.
What we learned last night is not that any previous Carrasco struggles were due to some emotional control issues. What we learned is that the fear of his emotional immaturity manifesting during a game is absolutely in play, realistic, and a big problem. And regarding that, I can only say that I was wrong. I was not wrong to say that too many people want to chalk up Carrasco’s every struggle to some nebulous problems with his psyche. I mean, sometimes pitchers get hit.
But damn, I can only say that this outing is freakishly frightening. Because while obviously his previous struggles can’t all be chalked up to this issue, we now can’t possibly know exactly how much of them were caused by it. And we’ll never know. And that sucks.
For those who don’t want to send him down for a while to send a message because we’re in a pennant race, I’d respond that we are no longer in a pennant race. So let’s send that message.
by tabler84 on Jul 30, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who is it, exactly, who has tried to chalk up EVERY struggle to maturity issues? I feel that there’s been an overreaction to an argument that does not get made — at least not here. I’d really prefer if we didn’t waste time preemptively rebutting arguments that aren’t even getting made in this forum.
Let’s have our own discussion, first and foremost, and then digress into meta-commentary if we must, but recognize that it’s a side discussion.
Uh, it was TribeJay who wrote:
“I tended to agree with that, thinking that the big innings were due more to mechanical problems out of the stretch. Well, I was wrong. The Yankee game and tonight are enough evidence for me.”
He’s arguing that the big innings were maturity / emotional issues, based on last night and the Yankees game. I’m arguing that’s stupid.
But whatever. I think we all can now agree that Carrasco has excellent raw stuff, a clear ability to put it together into something impressive, and some issues with keeping calm when things go poorly.
I think Turk is way over-the-top wrong in his hatred for this guy.
I’m with you. It’s not impossible that he learns from this mistake.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My “hatred” for the guy has nothing to do with his emotional issues. First off, I don’t hate him. I just don’t think he’s going to amount to a viable ML starter. As I’ve said before, it’s admittedly somewhat irrational, but I just don’t see a bright future in someone that is so boom or bust.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are well within reason to think I’m nuts, and that’s fine. There are not many players I irrationally feel this way about. Carrasco, for whatever reason, is one. Hell, I really hope I’m wrong and you guys are right.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you have to send him to CLB.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Stupid? Nice.
Didn’t say that all of his problems with big innings were caused by emotional immaturity. Just now that I know his mental toughness is a real factor. But then you go on to basically agree with me. Or at least, I agree with most of your post. Even if you look for something to exaggerate so you can call my post stupid.
And I’m 100% in agreement with this:
But damn, I can only say that this outing is freakishly frightening. Because while obviously his previous struggles can’t all be chalked up to this issue, we now can’t possibly know exactly how much of them were caused by it. And we’ll never know. And that sucks.
Nice night in the system:
Cleveland – shutout
Columbus – shutout
Akron – shutout
Kinston – shutout
Arizona rookie team – shutout
Wow.
No, I didn’t include Lake County and Mahoning Valley because it had a negative effect on my self-pity.
I think you just need to mow the lawn more often.
by YoDaddyWags on Jul 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The end.
Sell high. Sell Hafner. Sell Tomlin. Sell Raffy. Re-sell Fukudome.
by jhon on Jul 30, 2011 12:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Where did PHI send Oswalt? WHY ISN’T THIS ON TWITTER?!?!
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sell Hafner might not be a bad idea. This team has got some bad mojo for the last 3 months or so. There are definitely teams that could use Hafner.
This will seem reactionary, but I’ve always hated Carrasco. The next Fernando Cabrera. At best.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
At best? He’s already been more valuable than Fernando Cabrera.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This was a drunk comment. Though I’m low on Carrasco, it was stronger than it should have been.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad that even when you’re drunk, you preface your comments.
by NickFantana on Jul 30, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’d be amazed the lengths I go to to send grammatically correct texts while inebriated
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Twitter from MLBastian:
In his last five starts, Carlos Carrasco has gone 0-5 with a 9.26 ERA. Went 4-1 with a 0.98 in his five previous starts
How many more starts does he get?
Crazy talk.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, like sending Joey Belle down for not running hard to 1B.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Carrasco is coming off of two QS. He has 11 QS in his 19 starts. To answer your question: I’d say, if he remains healthy, he gets another dozen or so.
He can’t be throwing at guys’ dome skillets. I’d send him down to CLB to figure out a few things.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why I can’t figure why everyone seems so high on him. Yes, it’s his first full year. Yes, he’s show flashes of dominance. But he just can’t put it all together. At least not yet.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
First full year is the big part. Ride it out. Don’t send him down. He has to put it together on this level; I’m not sure that being in Columbus gets him much closer to that.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Oh I don’t think we should send him down. Why waste the roster spot in Columbus?
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But my point is, BFD. A guy who’s dominant in one start and gets utterly lit up in the next is not an ML starter.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But it’s his first full year!
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it’s his first full year. Yes, he’s show flashes of dominance
Damn this loser for not being Felix Hernandez at 19.
Steel Nick
I know, and I know I’m totally going out on an irrational limb, it seems. I’m completely aware of that. I just fear the worst for CC.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Extereme, yes, but noted. But I mean, even the most optimistic of us are not reasonably expecting that type of outcome, though.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously not. But what is not extreme is the weak linkage between a rookie pitcher’s performance and his career.
Of course.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s a fine line for Carrasco. If he can consistently stay on top of the ball with his fastball and command it, he will be an upper-rotation starter. He has too many weapons not to stay with him and find out if he can do that. But when he struggles with that, his fastball is way too hittable.
Hard to believe dollar dogs performed better than fireworks, but I never did understand the math behind WPA.
by Chemo on Jul 30, 2011 2:23 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Good night Irene.
I hope were still in on Ubaldo which we match up with and makes sense long term but should we start considering trading Raffy Perez or Joe Smith? Sort of a play it both way White Sox approach? We do have a lot of 1 year and 2 year arbitration cases coming up in the off season.
if anyone will give anything for perez i trade it. smith is cheap and good
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t condone throwing at guys’ melons, but why did Melky pose on that particular HR? It wasn’t remarkably deep or impressive.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Melky, being the kind soul he was, wanted to make sure the flight path of the ball wasn’t headed towards any unsuspecting children.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 30, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Woah, why the name change? This website only has room for one Brad . . . .
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 30, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brad D (fwembt) and Joel D (junkballer) changed their IDs on the occasion of moving their Xavier U blog to SBN, which occurred on Wednesday. Personally, I think it’s crazy to give up a UserID like “junkballer,” but you know brothers are with their weird little logic.
Sweet, congrats to them. I’ll have to check out their blog.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 30, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
On the other hand, the UserID “junkballer” is now out there, if you’d like to put your money where your mouth is.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
That’s pretty much what we’re thinking. Hard to build a brand on a basketball site with a baseball user name. People had gotten used to seeing “Joel” at the top of all the articles worth reading on the Blogger site; the adjustment may have been jarring.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
“People?” Not to be a jerk, but how many people?
I work with a lot of unsigned artists who have released independent albums. I always tell them, you can’t worry about what your 100 or 1000 fans think. Worry about what you think, and what your next 100,000 fans think.
That was mostly a jab at Brad; I don’t honestly think we had that many fans. We were pulling about 6,000 hits a month over at Blogger, with the caveat that this is the offseason. We’re hoping to pull that next 100,000 fans on SBN. Mostly it was the fact that at least some of the people over here know me as Joel despite the pseudonym and the fact that we refer to the mods here by name that inspired us to write under our own names. Just out of curiosity, how many hits does LGT get over the course of a week or a month? We’d love to end up with a community on our site like we have over here; just wondering how many people it takes to get that. If you don’t feel comfortable sharing that on this thread, feel free to Facebook me. If you don’t want to share it at all, it won’t hurt my feelings, either.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
To be frank, we don’t look at hits too much — until and unless there is a substantial equity stake situation with SBN, there isn’t much reason to do that. We have focused on community and the quality of discourse, so I personally tend to look at comment volume. I recently split up comment volume into half-years, and the trends are pretty interesting:
2005 H1 – 34
2005 H2 – 1,857
2006 H1 – 14,452
2006 H2 – 18,382
2007 H1 – 44,671
2007 H2 – 78,128
2008 H1 – 86,207
2008 H2 – 64,118
2009 H1 – 125,338
2009 H2 – 88,763
2010 H1 – 67,274
2010 H2 – 35,320
2011 H1 – 76,834
Man we really had high hopes going into 2009.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I think a few things were going on there.
- Because of the 2006-2007 experience, we were conditioned to feel that a big season in 2009 was entirely possible and even probable.
- We signed Kerry Wood to close and traded for DeRosa — two of our biggest preseason acquisitions in many years.
- The Annual came out, which shocked most everyone at the time, and we added Adam and Andrew to the LGT author roster soon after.
Overall, there was just a huge amount of excitement and enthusiasm surrounding the Indians in general and this site in particular. It was an infectious time.
The overall growth of the site was such that we had more comments in the totally hopeless 2009 second half than in the 2007 second half, including the whole 2007 postseason. That is pretty remarkable, if you think about it.
Getting back to Joel’s question, do you really want our 2009 traffic levels? Or would you rather have our 2007 overall quality of discussion and community, and a little bit less of the Yahoo crowd?
Ah yes I remember the odd year bullpen theory.
Getting back to Joel’s question, do you really want our 2009 traffic levels? Or would you rather have our 2007 overall quality of discussion and community, and a little bit less of the Yahoo crowd?
Can’t we have both?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 31, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he knew he had just struck the death blow to a franchise for the season and wanted to savor the moment.
Formerly fwembt
Why do you keep trying to bury us at every turn? I recognize that it’s not extremely likely that we go to the playoffs this year; you can stop pointing it out. Such a Negative Nancy.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
FIGHT!
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ever the eternal optimist though I am, I have to side with Brad here.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He was looping a “What if…?” ad in his head.
by YoDaddyWags on Jul 30, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What’s that have to do with anything?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, it has a lot to do with it. Turner is what the Roxs want for Ubaldo meaning that if he is traded its between the Tribe and Yanks. I honestly think O’Dowd is just seeing what the Market is for him. I hope I am wrong, I guess we will see.
So, the way Bastian is tweeting it seems the Indians are seriously in on Ubaldo. He does note however that if traded Ubaldo’s 2014 club option is voided…
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
And Heyman says the deal for Fister to the Tigers is done. So with another suitor out and the with the Yankees apparently backing off, either Ubaldo’s price goes down just a little or he doesn’t get moved.
Steel Nick
Would you trade Pomz if we only had Ubaldo for 2012-2013? (
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I realize you’ve been saying you wouldn’t trade Pomz anyway. But.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve come around to trading him, but a lot of depended on who else was in the package. I have no idea how I feel. Maybe it’s because I just brought Bedard up as an under-the-radar trade option, but this reminds me how Lookout Landing felt when they traded for Bedard. Lots of hand-wringing over the prospects lost but finishing every sentence with, “but Bedard is really good.”
Steel Nick
It is strange that it is not Pomeranz but the rest of the package that worries me.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure we’d also have Ubaldo for 2011.
by Jay on Jul 30, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think I would. Even if we fall out of the race for 2011 (which I haven’t conceded yet), this year has made contention in 2012 an expectation rather than a hope. You don’t get that many chances at a piece like Ubaldo.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Per here, Rockies want Ivan Nova and two of Betances/Banuelos/Montero from Yankees.
Yikes.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
This is quite far fetched and the more these talks circulate the more I realize how awful I am at this, but what are the chances Marson gets moved?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I’ve gotta believe they’re slim. Moving Marson means more Matt LaPorta, and nobody wants that.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
We’re all in agreement though that Pomz and White is too much?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
Then a deal isn’t happening, which I’m fine with.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, if that is the breaker, I’m fine with no deal as well.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
You don’t get Ubaldo without giving up two of our top 4, maybe 3.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That might be where I draw the line. It’s impossible to know, however, the Indians’ internal evaluations of his defense, and the decision might turn on that.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. If they turned down Pom-Phelps-Hagadone, they’d be kind of crazy. Throw in Fausto or ZacMac.
I don’t see that as crazy. Getting Ubaldo at that cheap price, now that’d be crazy!
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 6:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What is SD rumored to be asking for LGFT Lud?
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
I can’t believe Ed Wade outsmarted a GM. What a coup.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don’t know much about NL systems but are those Phillies prospects that great?
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Singleton and Cosart, yeah.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 12:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not really… I dont think the Phils much care about those two guys if it helps them win the World Series this year. I think even IF those guys are all stars they will look back on it as a great deal. They will simply go out and spend they are concentrated on winning the series again
The Phillies are so strategically front-loaded that at this point, almost any win-now deal they make is a good idea. They are totally screwed three years from now regardless.
They also optioned Brown in favor of Ibanez. So much stupidity.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jul 30, 2011 6:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow. From a team starting 30-15… to this. I realize that some were playing over their heads, but these seem like two completely different teams. I guess having Grady and Choo out at the same time doesn’t do us many favors either.
At this point, playoffs are becoming less and less likely, unless we start getting our act together.
Richard Justice said on MLBN today that the Indians were in on Michael Bourn. That would be a baffling acquisition.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
I actually like it.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
NL outfielder with no pop having a career year? I’ll pass, unless we get him for even less than we sent for Fukudome.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Seriously. This is his first year with an OBP over .360 (and only one more over .350). Meanwhile, for everyone who complains about Brantley’s power, Brantley has as many homers this year as Bourn has in the last three combined.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s really a fit for a team that needs a center fielder. Even if we wanted him, we ought to be outbid.
Steel Nick
I like Ludwick. He basically went into the tank only after the trade. It could be the lack of protection in the lineup, but I’m willing to take a flyer on whether Petco’s in his head.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope is isn’t the former, because there isn’t much production here, either.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jul 30, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This guy, Aaron Wilson, hasn’t been wrong yet, but he’s only ever broken news on call-ups and send-downs:
wahoo_baseball Aaron Wilson
@TheDiaTribe @Gotribe31 Latest rumor I’ve heard is Ubaldo will be an Indian today for Pomeranz and Kipnis. I hope I’m wrong this time guys
I still don’t know who he is. But wow. That’s… a lot.
Steel Nick
Yeah, that’s too much for me. But I dislike Phelps like Turk dislikes Carrasco.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope he’s wrong too.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
In one of those LGT parallel universes, this team is exactly the same (players, record, standing, farm system, etc.) with the major exception that we’ve got Ubaldo and another team has Pom & Kipnis.
At this point in this season, we’re offered the 2 of them for Jimenez if we want to be sellers at the deadline… I just don’t think I do that. Also, in that parallel universe it pays off and we win the World Series.
(And in an even better parallel universe we substitute Phelps + a second pitcher instead of Kipnis)
yesterday, i was open to trading pomeranz for ubaldo, because i figured his ceiling probably couldn’t be as high as ubaldo’s is, ubaldo is a consistent front of the rotation starter, and he has a team friendly contract, but after seeing how much this team is struggling right now i definitely think we need to hold on to the “big four”. i think this team has a bright future, but that could be jeopardized by trading 2 of our top 4 prospects.
if it’s just pomeranz and maybe someone less consequential like phelps or someone, fine. but pomeranz AND kipnis? no thank you.
There is, to some degree, a truth that both Pomeranz and Kipnis are sell high guys. They are obviously both fine prospects, but they also have been on considerable upswing all season. I suppose you could come up with a logic that says that, to the right club, their value is unlikely to ever be higher than it is right now. The lack of high ceiling upper level starting pitchers is a concern, though.
I feel like the lack of high ceiling upper level anything is a concern. Other than relievers.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Good lord…this team is tanking. Correct me if I’m wrong, but we were at one point 15 games over .500, right? And now we are just +1….this is bad. I think additional acquisitions with just 2011 in mind are probably a bad strategy at this point.
I’m with ya and yeah, we were 30-15, right?
My .500 poll fittingly remains split right at an average of .500—and I averaged my preseason 80-82 with our current pace and thusly also voted right at .500.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
From Buster Olney:
Talks between CLE and SD re: Ludwick have some traction; appears to be a good chance that the two sides will work something out
This just doesn’t make any sense to me. I mean, I guess it’s fine if the sacrifice is equivalent to the one for Fukudome.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure who would
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 30, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure “excited” is the right word, but I’d like to add him for a non-prospect—see above. He’s a guy with a decent chance to be a power threat if he’s freed from that stadium.
If the Indians can hang within 5 games of the Tigers until mid-August, they could then be running out a lineup of Brantley/Cabrera/Hafner/Santana/Choo/Ludwick/Chiz/Kipnis*/LaPorta. You can win with that lineup, especially if Choo comes back with a clear head.
*Still assuming we get outbid for Ubaldo.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
but the only way i’m happy with this deal is if we don’t give up anyone important. because ludwick will really only be a 1-month rental until he becomes a backup. i assume when sizemore comes back he’ll start, same with choo, and brantley deserves to keep his job. but if we get ludwick, our outfield for september will look like choo/sizemore/brantley/fukudome/ludwick
that’s not bad.
also, important for that situation is: can ludwick play first? that would mean we could have a lineup of:
brantley LF
asdrubal SS
choo (assuming he returns to form) RF
hafner DH
santana C
ludwuck 1B
sizemore CF
kipnis 2B
chisenall 3B
that’s not bad at all
I mean, obviously everything depends on the price. I’m envisioning something equivalent to last year’s version of Corey Kluber or Zach McAllister. I wouldn’t give up as much as Phelps or Chen or Gomez.
And Sizemore… I just have a really bad feeling about him. I’m loath to pencil him in at any point this year.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
At a certain point the calculation has to shift towards a recognition that this team, as constructed and with its current set of injuries, just is not quite ready yet. I’m thinking we are perilously close to that point if we have not already passed it.
But you know were talking b prospect at most for Ludwick. Again assuming it’s no more than an abler abreu what’s the harm here?
I mean, I recognize this, a little. Detroit is better as these teams are constructed. But even so, the reality is that we’re 2.5 games back on July 30. The goal of the regular season is to make the playoffs, and there’s no assurance that we’ll be in this position again next year or the year after, as much as we’d like to think we will. Remember 2006? And 2008? There are no guarantees. I think if you’re within striking distance, you have to go for it. Again, Ryan Ludwick isn’t going to mortgage anything.
Besides, “the current set of injuries” really just means Sizemore and Choo. It’s only (a possibly excruciating) two and a half weeks left for Choo. Sizemore, well, it may be time to prepare for a Grady-less future regardless.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree…which is the only reason I am not more sure in saying we aren’t a good team. But only the last two months or so we are team that is 14 games under .500 and has been outscored by more than 100 runs.
Also, if they stick around in the race for even a few more weeks… I’d rather have the attendance money and increased buzz than, say, Joe Gardner.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Leading into 2012, I mean.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently, Chris reads LGT. Sorry, Joe, it wasn’t personal.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 30, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
if you’re within striking distance, you have to go for it.
Exactly this.
Get the fans at the ballpark, generate some excitement, try to get into the dance.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Other teams believe that the Rockies’ best chance, for making a Ubaldo Jimenez deal, is with the Cleveland Indians. #trades per Onley
This absolutely devastates me
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this sarcasm? I don’t understand why this is a big deal?
by tr1betime on Jul 30, 2011 5:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Apparently you’ve missed my constant pining for Chris Davis for months. And I love Uehara too.
Lou Marson fan.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 30, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
by Buster_ESPN
As I said earlier this week Denard Span -Drew Storen deal will go down it’s a matter of time:secondary players have to be agreed to #TRADES
35 minutes ago
"By being the manager and just playing whoever I want." - Acta on how he would choose to split playing time between Kearns and Buck.
Rosenthal gives a Jimenez update on-air, and mentions only the Yankees.
And the report consisted of “they’re not getting him” HOW ABOUT SOME TEAMS THAT DO HAVE A CHANCE, MR. MSM.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
The Indians news was on a computer monitor that he couldn’t see, BECAUSE HE’S SO DANG SMALL.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 30, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
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