Game 114: Indians 10, Tigers 3
by Ryan on Aug 10, 2011 10:03 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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Ubaldo Jimenez, in his second start, gave the Indians everything they were hoping for, and a bit more. With the entire bullpen pitching last night, Jimenez needed to go deep into the game, and he came through, going eight full innings, and giving up three "earned" runs.
Jimenez started hot, striking out four batters in the first two innings, showcasing his tremendous four-seam fastball. He ran into trouble in the third when the Tigers got their first two batters on base, but proceeded to get the next three outs with ease, ending the inning on an infield pop fly. His one blemish in the game was in the fourth inning. After retiring Magglio Ordonez and Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez hit a ground ball deep into the hole between short and third, which normally would have been an automatic infield hit. But this is Victor we're talking out, and he was hobbled with a knee injury. Asdrubal Cabrera fielded the ball, threw to first, but Carlos Santana misjudged the ball and stepped the wrong way; the play was judged a hit, but it should have been an error on Santana. Ryan Raburn then hit a double high off the center field wall, and later Wilson Betemit doubled to drive in two more runs.
But the Indians, who had led 4-0 going into the inning, came right back in the bottom of the fourth. Rick Porcello, who had owned the Indians in his young career, didn't have it, and the Indians made him pay. Lou Marson led off the inning with a double down the right field line, and he went to third on Ezequiel Carrera's grounder to the right side of the infield. Jason Kipnis, who already had two hits (including a home run) under his belt, singled to center, driving Marson home. Kipnis next went first-to-third on Asdrubal Cabrera's single, and went home when the throw to third went into the photo bay. A wild pitch would plate Cabrera, and just like that, the Indians had built back their four-run lead. Porcello wouldn't last the inning, and he would be removed after Carlos Santana's double. Kosuke Fukudome drove home the fifth run of the inning with a double of his own.
So the rout was on. Ubaldo Jimenez settled down, allowing just one base runner the rest of the way. He cruised through the eighth inning, and allowed the Indians to give the back end of the bullpen a needed day off.
Jason Kipnis would get two more hits, and became the first Cleveland rookie since 1970 (Jack Heideman) to go 5-for-5.
The Indians now get to face Justin Verlander with house money in hand. They'll at worst end the series three games back, and if they pull off the victory, will be just one down. With three true rookies in the lineup, with two of their best offensive weapons on the shelf, they're still in the race, and of late they're starting to hit. Fasten your seatbelts.
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| Kipnis | .214 | Duncan | -.031 |
| Santana | .096 | Jimenez | -.020 |
| Cabrera | .091 |
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Comments
How can you not be excited
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 10, 2011 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Being In Idaho, I did not see it. What did the D do to cause the Tigger outburst?
OCab is no longer my bête noire.
Fourth inning Ubaldo got them 1-2-3 on weak grounders, heart of the Tiger order. But the third batter was Victor, who is truly slower than a glacier with a hamstring pull. He grounded one to deep short, Droobs fielded and threw, Santana thought he had to stretch. But they had plenty of time, and Santana dropped the ball. Somehow the official scorer figured it to be a hit, which is kind of like saying Rebecca Black’s Friday is a “hit.”
Then Ubaldo hung a splitter, which Raburn hammered off the wall in center for a triple. Then a walk, then an impressive double on a low fastball scored two more. Then Ubaldo decided he’d had enough of the kittens.
by tabler84 on Aug 10, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
You forgot to add that Kipnis’ relay on that last double was wide; if it was on line, the guy’s out by four feet. Asdrubal’s throw was wide and Carlos did have to stretch; it looked to me less that he dropped it and more that he couldn’t quite reach it. I’d have to see a better replay before I kicked about it being ruled a hit.
by YoDaddyWags on Aug 10, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You dare to criticize Kipnis on this day?
by haymister on Aug 10, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ocab makes that play, that’s all I am saying.
by Roger Dorn on Aug 10, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 14 recs
Somehow the official scorer figured it to be a hit, which is kind of like saying Rebecca Black’s Friday is a "hit."
Glacier with a hamstring pull was so much better of a line.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Aug 11, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Somehow the official scorer figured it to be a hit
Not any more, per Zack Meisel’s tweet:
Because of a scoring change (error given to Carlos Santana in 4th inning), all 3 runs allowed by Ubaldo Jimenez last night are now UNEARNED.
Ubaldo’s (AL) ERA just went from 5.54 to 3.46.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 11, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
cy young
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Since the beginning of July, for Carmona:
Rec: 1-1
Team Rec: 4-1
ERA: 2.60
BA: .234
OBP: .297
OPS: 689
Seamy Underside:
BABIP: .229
This.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 10, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And IF, (big if) Carmona gets his stuff together consistently, that rotation is seriously Woah.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 10, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If they decide to place tomlin at the 3 to break up the power arms a bit, think about Carmona and Huff as your 4 & 5. pretty epic
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Not a fan of Carlos Carrasco?
I get that he’s on the DL, but it feels like some folks are ready to drop Carrasco based on his month of July vs Huff’s three 2011 starts.
When the Jimenez deal went down, the pitcher who I thought this could help the most would be Carrasco. Instead of starting the year with him breaking up Carmona and Masterson, you now have Carrasco (when healthy) and Tomlin filling out the BOR.
Now forgive me for this little bit of rosterbation, but depending on moves made in the future with club options and potentially trades, a rotation of (in any order) Jimenez, Masterson, Tomlin Carmona, and Carrasco seems ridiculously good.
"Ok everyone listen up! I've just invited Dave to suck it!"
Basically arguing about which player would be the long man out of the bullpen in a potential playoff series, since it would appear that Masterson,Jimenez, Carmona, and Tomlin would be your top 4.
Hopefully they can move a ligament into Carrasco’s brain, too, to make him stop melting down when the going gets rough. (very Sabathia-esque “inning of crap”)
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
More of a melter than Fausto? Seems that’s why they’re 4/5 starters instead of 2/3. CC grew out of it after 5 or 6 years in the majors, maybe Fausto and CarCar will get there too.
oh yeah, forgot about Carrasco when he comes back. Now the Indians have a problem any team wants to have (and a problem we would have loved to have at the beginning of the season). We have 6 competent starters.
Hopefully they can keep whoever is the odd man out on the ml roster.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
We should know better than to wish on Fausto anymore.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s gut check time next over the next two years. Ya got Fausto, Grady and Pronk up for re-election. If Antonetti’s got the googliones, we dump the trio and go with the kids.
Our best players wear suits.
Those are some serious googliones, knowing the potential damage they can do with other teams. Yikes.
I agree, mind ya…..just…..
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
how much would pronk make next year? if it’s reasonable i would love to have him back. and i know grady’s option is expensve (isn’t it like $12m? i mght be totally off here) but he has shown that when healthy he’s one of the best in the game, and i don’t think i would just let him walk without even attempting to negotiate a more reaosnable 1-2 year, incentive-filled contract. and as much of a pain as it is to watch fausto pitch sometimes, if he can figure it out he has top of the rotation potential
when healthy
There’s the kicker. Guys who’ve been DL’ed as much as Grady rarely are more healthy in the long term. And Pronk’s just a muscle strain away from retirement. Sigmund Freud couldn’t shrink Fausto’s head.
Looks like a $30M dollar gamble to me. We ain’t got the chips.
Our best players wear suits.
And Pronk’s just a muscle strain away from retirement
This is a ridiculous statement.
Sigmund Freud couldn’t shrink Fausto’s head
As is this.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pronk makes $13M next year and has a 2013 option for the same amount.
Grady’s ’12 option is 8.5M.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
$7 million on a one-year deal for a #4 starter is a strong value. It’s way below market, especially in terms of long-term risk. So you grit your teeth and keep Fausto, while trying to convince yourself there’s an upside to it.
Can’t give up on Grady just yet, in terms of fan appeal. Not when the price is still this low. As I said, I could see them restructuring his 2012 club option into a two year deal at lower cost. I can’t see them declining the option outright, though.
Hafner’s 2012 salary is guaranteed, so that’s not really an issue yet.
by Jay on Aug 11, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can’t imagine an old DH will get a lot of bidders. I don’t think Hafner will see contracts with $10m+ AAV anymore.
We got way, way too many good to great young pitchers coming up to need – that’s need – to keep Fausto. And we’ve had Grady on the field for most of April and May. How was attendance back then? Pretty lame as I recall.. I’d rather have that $20M in my hip pocket to sign a big time power bat in either the off-season or at the trade deadline.
Winning is what puts fannies in the seats in Cleveland. I don’t see Fausto or Grady making significant contributions towards that end in ’12 and ’13.
Our best players wear suits.
We’ll get at least one stud out of that group of 5 or 6 prospects, I just can’t tell you which one it will be. Like, I had no clue that Tomlin would be as good as he is or that Adam Miller would completely collapse.
Our best players wear suits.
So why not pay $7MM for an SP4 who eats innings?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Cuz it’s $7M that ’s why. Why pay that kinda dough when you can get the same performance from a guy making league minimum.
This should be tatooed to Antonetti’s forehead: Never, ever pay primium prices for league average performance. Never.
We ain’t the Yankees. We gotta be smart and hang onto every dollar.
Our best players wear suits.
The Cardinals had to pay Jake Westbrook 16.5 million over two years for his services.
7 million for Fausto is not a premium price.
The falacy of this statement is self-evident. Should we be as dumb as the Mariners too?
Our best players wear suits.
Chuck, you’re just way off on this — $7 million isn’t a premium price.
Even more significant, there is an inherent bargain when you only have to commit to a one-year deal, in particular for a pitcher.
Maybe it’s finger poppin’ money for the Yankee’s and Red Sux of the World, but $7M is the forth highest salary on our pay-roll behind Sizemore, Hafner and Fukudome(!)
We should be thinking in terms of Indian’s dollars and not other team’s budgets. Just like ball-players, the FO needs to stay inside of their limits.
Our best players wear suits.
I am thinking in terms of the Indians budget. What, you think I’ve never given the matter any thought before?
We paid Paul Byrd more than this, and we had to guarantee two years of the deal to get him — and that was with him giving us a hometown discount.
Kevin Millwood — $7 million, coming off a season that he ended with a serious injury.
Our overall payroll fluctuates at least a bit. We came into 2011 in mostly-rebuilding mode, so naturally payroll is around 2004-2005 levels. For 2006-2009, however, we paid more players more money, and we will do so in 2012-2013 as well.
The issue with the big time power bat is not that he costs 20 million. It’s that you have to invest in him for 7 years, and that there are a few teams out there that can still succeed even if he flames out, and thus, very willing to keep bidding you up. The Indians just won’t be in the running for a 20M/year player. The guys the Indians can make winning bids for won’t have the upside that Carmona and Sizemore have.
This
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 11, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So basically, get rid of Grady and Fausto, on reasonable one-year deals, so we can look for the next Hafner deal to sign?
This is supposed to be your side of the argument!
Grady and Fausto are reasonable, one-year deals. The Hafner deal is supposed to be the type the Indians NEVER sign — according to you! — and not just not for Hafner, but not for anyone!
What had me goin’ about Hafner was the length of the contract not the one year amount. And I think we’ve got plenty of pitching – I know there’s never enough, but still – so we don’t need to take another flyer on Fausto. And Sizemore’s best days are way far away in his rear view.
I’d spend that money where we need it most – a RH’ed power hitter. I won’t sign him for more than $10M and two years, which will make the number of takers very, very small, but we gotta have the reserve to sign the guy if he shows up.
A few years ago it looked like we needed a closer and had all the big bats we needed to contend. Years before that it was a front line pitcher. You buy what you need. Right now I don’t think we need a broke down left handed stick or a guy with great stuff who can’t figure out how to pitch.
Our best players wear suits.
Two years at $10 million each… For what power hitter is this for, Jason Dubois?
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 12, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t a low BABIP for a heavy groundball pitcher like Fausto be less attributable to luck?
by NatiTribeFan on Aug 11, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
slightly. His BABIP since his rookie year has pretty consistently been between around .280ish except for his awful ’09 year where it was .322. yes, he is helped by being a GB pitcher, but .229 even for that is unsustainable. thats like Tomlin first couple months of the year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Watching Tomlin the frist couple of months it seemed to me that luck didn’t fully explain the low BABIP. He was getting excellent defense and batters really weren’t squaring up the ball very well. He pitches to contact, so he needs above average defense. When he came back to earth, it seemed to coincide with when the Indians started to boot the ball around. Of course he contributes to the good defense by fielding his position exceptionally well, and by working quickly.
Carmona on the other hand was giving up line drives all over the park when he wasn’t on. He also is no Tomlin when it comes to fielding .
I’m not saying that extremely low BABIP isn’t parlty luck, but even for pitchers one shouldn’t expect BABIP to revert to league average. Maybe to that pitcher’s carreer average, but who’s palying behind him surely accounts for some variation.
"I just try and keep it simple. I could elaborate, but that would be ironic." - Jeremy Sowers
if you have perfect placement on your balls an excellent, you can keep that pace up for a while. It was not all luck but it certainly was not sustainable.
Tomlin certainly can keep a low BABIP with good D and great placement on his pitches, but even then a BABIP around that low is probably not going to last throughout the season.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Not disagreeing. .229 or whatever it was isn’t sustainable. Trying to figure out what is a reasonable expectation going forward. The defense won’t be as good as April/May, but more offense hopefully means Tomlin will continue to keep us in most games that he pitches.
"I just try and keep it simple. I could elaborate, but that would be ironic." - Jeremy Sowers
I’d say probably if he is on, the .260 range. Thats what he has averaged in the 2nd half this year and last year he was at .279 (already as good as fausto at his BABIP best). mid .260s is where I see his career average being around.
One thing I did notice is that his BABIP is significantly higher in high leverage situations.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
if he keeps pitching the way he has pitched the last 2 years. I think he can do that for a whole career, or at least his prime years.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
even last year he posted a BABIP in the low .270s and that was his first season in the majors. If he can pitch 4.50 or lower (or close to 4.00) he will probably have to have a BABIP below .270 because of his pitching style. Now the question really is, do you think he can have an ERA fairly consistently under 4.50?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I don’t think you really have a good grasp on BABIP and how to use it.
Tomlin will not sustain a long term BABIP below .270 and probably not close.
he isn’t the guy though that can have a long term BABIP though in the .280s and still have an ERA below 4.50. I personally think he can keep up his ERA and considering how many balls in play there are with Tomlin, he would have to be ultra-clutch in high leverage situations or post a BABIP similar to what he has the last 2 years.
I do have a grasp on BABIP, I am just probably higher on the chances of Tomlin keeping this up than others.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I believe Craig Ferguson used to dance under the name Seamy Underside.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 11, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I was sincerely bummed when I found out he wasn’t hosting the 4th of July thing with the Boston Pops. I mean, Michael Chilkis is cool and all, but Ferg is better.
No, our Jay defends Leno to the hilt.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Leno is only for the bed-ridden elderly.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but that man was a hipster, so it wasn’t really about Leno.
by Jay on Aug 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We mixed it up pretty good about Leno on here when he crudded up the bed at 10PM for NBC.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig Ferguson is the reason that DVRs were invented.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Those underrating the Indians severely underestimated the additions of Kipnis and Kosuke.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 10, 2011 11:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
AND CHOO IS ALMOST BACK
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 10, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
And, in a sense, have not given the Indians enough credit for hanging in while literally all five of their main outfielders from April are out.
by Jay on Aug 11, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Seriously, this is huge.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Choo, Sizemore, Brantley, Buck…..Kearns? Crowe?
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was wondering who the fifth one was as well. I decided on Crowe, which I couldn’t believe Jay counted.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
He’s not lost, though……just stinky.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not lost except when he hits and when he plays the outfield. He can find his way around the clubhouse just fine, and his GPS helps him find stuff in Cleveland when he’s out on off days.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 11, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
his GPS helps him find stuff in Cleveland when he’s out on off days
Actually, his designated driver does that for him.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying, the guys on the field last night are basically 6th, 7th, 8th on our OF depth chart.
This maybe true today, but I think Zeke’s our future CFer – like 2012 CFer.
Our best players wear suits.
I dont think we can afford to keep Fuku and Zeke in the lineup together unless you’re getting significant pop from elsewhere in the lineup. Zeke has 4th outfielder (and with his speed, a very good one) written all over him.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d consider letting Fuku walk, but there are no minor-league OFs even close to contributing, are there?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s probably why I give Grady a longer look.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I would trade Brantley—selling relatively high, in all likelihood—while signing or trading for a reasonably good RHH OF (an honest-to-goodness FA, not a thrifty Kearns type) who can play a little CF. Brantley isn’t going to be our regular CF, but maybe some other team likes him in that role. I then extend Sizemore, hoping that he can play in 70% or more of our future games. Once again, Carerra, Crowe and Buck are our backstops in the OF. That’s the risk I think we should take.
In return for Brantley, I would try to replenish the system with either a very-high-upside but blemished prospect, or a couple solid contributors on the cusp of the bigs. A 1B and an RP, perhaps.
I then extend Sizemore, hoping that he can play in 70% or more of our future games
You are a dreamer.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hide if you want. it's kinda big
I ventured down to the corner of carnegie and ontario for this HUGE WIN. a few things
-atmosphere was great. crowd seemed louder than normal, and really showed Ubaldo a lot of love. i think this is a start of a beautiful friendship.
-also on the atmosphere, is there any better place in the park to watch the game than the bleachers? that place is like one big party. it’s so much fun. i don’t know if this was able to be heard on the TV, but the bleachers were chanting “jason kip-nis” all throughout the game and when he finally waved to us we went nuts. and we didn’t stop there. we went all the way around the diamond, chanting for every indian out there, and they all answered with a wave. the only one who didn’t was santana, but i don’t know if he noticed we were chanting for him. “santana” is kind of a hard name to chant
-also, jason kipns. this is a serious question. if he keeps hitting like he is now, or even at a pace similar to this, is it possible for him to win rookie of the year? like if he hits 10-15 HR between now and october with a ~.300 AVG and we make the playoffs? just a thought. i don’t even know if that’s possible or if he’ll have enough ABs to qualify. this guy is going to be a star.
-ubaldo pitched well, i think. if asdrubalsantana makes that play, he goes 8 innings of shutout, 6 K baseball on a night we desperately needed. also, did anyone see what his velocity was like? i glanced every once in a while at the board but didn’t look enough to get a good read. the highest i saw was 95.
-and finally, LET’S GO TRIBE. GET YOUR BROOMS READY, CARMONA. WE NEED THIS.
Well, Carmona, we’d really like this but the last two games have put us in a position where we dont NEED this-ish.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 10, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
TWSS?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Aug 11, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
“…i don’t know if this was able to be heard on the TV, but the bleachers were chanting "jason kip-nis" all throughout the game…”
I heard it loud and clear.
Good job, guys.
I’ll voice the dissenting opinion on the bleachers.
Basically an extension of Batters Eye. More for people who rather be at a bar than at the game. Alot of non-fans. And they always waste at least one inning trying to get a wave started. Only place worse that I’ve sat is the student section at the Horseshoe.
Yanks are the Empire. Red Sox are the Empire with PR claiming they are the Rebellion.
by OPace on Aug 11, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll echo that in another way … Yankees fans are known for their chanting of players names, around the diamond until each player waves. And it was started by their bleacher fans, as well. I’m all for our fans showing up and getting into the games in a big way. I just wish they could be somewhat more original, and if they’re gonna copy some other team’s fans, couldn’t it please be anyone besides the freaking Yankees?
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
by Ockus_NYC on Aug 11, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Agree with OPace, but I don’t mind the chanting thing so much. I mean, what else could you do? Thought it was actually really cool. Didn’t know that was a Jacklass thing.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s something they’ve been doing for a years, now. They do it in the top of the first inning in every game. Or at least they still were last year when I went to several games. Maybe they don’t anymore. But I, at least, will always associate it with Yankee fans. Nick Swisher and Johnny Damon would really ham it up and the fans would go nuts and eventually they started trying to get every player to acknowledge them. Once they realized they could get even a total buzzkill like Jeter to give them a wave, it started to turn into a “thing.” You say “what else could you do?” How about, “not that?”
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
Eh, I think we’re getting unnecessarily up in arms about people getting into the game
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the Prog crowd seems so tepid a lot of the times that I watch that I’m happy to hear of them being involved and excited in any way.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen Cleveland come up with any “original” fan actions, so I agree with Julio…anything that adds some energy to the crowd is alright, regardless of the playbook it comes from.
Unless the playbook is that of a philly fan, which involves pushing over port-a-potties and throwing up on children. We don’t need that kind of energy.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Cleveland hasn’t come up with any original fan actions.
The Bleacher Creatures have been doing their roll call during the top of the first inning for years.
I’m with Jay, the less Tribe fans act like Jackasses, the better.
by Harry Doyle on Aug 11, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
regardless of the playbook it comes from.
C’mon … you don’t truly think that, do you? This site regularly thumps the Yankee and Red Sox fans for being complete douches. Why is this particular act be ok? Should we start doing Sweet Caroline in the eighth inning, too, because it might add some noise?
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
I love sweet caroline. Wish the Indians had their own song…..they tried to use Hang on Sloopy for a while, but failed.
And yes, I truly believe that anything that gets the casual fan making some noise and not dozing in their seat/on their cell phone can help. We don’t appear to have the most engaged fan base, at the moment.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
hang on sloopy during the 8th (?) inning always seems to get the crowd up doing OHIO and singing along. not as good as Sweet Caroline, but it’s still something
Tressel and Pryor have sullied that brand a bit right now.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I loathe anything OSU related at an Indians game. We aren’t all Buckeyes, we don’t all like them.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
by Brad D on Aug 11, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. It’s not OSU. I don’t understand why we don’t use “Cleveland Rocks” for an 8th inning thing. Seems like a good opportunity for crowd call/response with the “Cleveland rocks” part.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Me either. Make a montage of the stupid hot dogs running around Cleveland.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They play “Cleveland Rocks” at the end of games, though.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
except the reasoning behind it is that it was adopted as the official rock song of Ohio, hot because there are OSU fans in cleveland.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Sweet Caroline is the worst song in the history of music.
by Roger Dorn on Aug 11, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“Don’t Stop Believin’”
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The Royals play that famous Garth Brooks song. KC is a nice place, but it has the imprint of a cow town sometimes.
Nothing is more obnoxious than 40,000 drunk Giants fans singing along to Tony Bennett while trapped in a stadium with two usable gates.
by ameliorate on Aug 11, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I made it to Pac Bell or whatever it is called now last month, funniest part to me was that it was clear that they encourage smoking weed in the stadium.
It’s still a little disheartening that they can barely fill up half the stadium against a natural rival in the middle of an August pennant race.
You’ve got to understand the unparalleled heartbreak many Clevelanders have endured, i.e. The Drive, The Fumble, The Shot, the "97 WS, and on and on…
Also, the Tribe’s best stretch came too early when the weather was poor.
Ain’t buyin’ it. 455 baby 455. And I’ve heard all that stuff about no Browns, Cavs stunk etc. I ain’t lookin’ for sell outs every night, but 25k a game average at least for a team in contention and on the way upl.
Our best players wear suits.
That was an unique time. They had stars like Thome, Ramirez, Vizquel and the novelty of Jacob’s Field not yet worn off.
Anyway, right now they are a .500 team that got knocked out of first place. When I was young if the Indians got off to a good start there was always the threat of the “June Swoon”. There could be a bit of that sentiment now.
If they sweep tonite and start winning more than 40% of their games you’ll see attendance go up.
At a hunnert bucks a ticket versus ten? And we’re talkin’ about 75,000 versus 25,000. And freezin’ your ass off to boot.
Our best players wear suits.
Only hafta pay parking 8 times, though. Speaking of which, there should be a place to tailgate near the Jake. Ohioans like to drink. Cleanup a lot on the river side for the pre-gamers.
What you don’t park at the W150th St. rapid station? I don’t think I’ve paid to park at a Brown’s game since Eisenhower was in office.
Our best players wear suits.
Always take the Rapid to games
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 12, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
if you look at the numbers, the more games you have, the less % of seats will be filled per game.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
yep. actually, Hockey draws slightly less than Basketball and they have the same number of games, but Hockey has nowhere near the popularity
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Baseball is far, far better live. But the eight games thang really helps the Browns.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 12, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
This. I’ll take even recycled crowd participation over what we get some games.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
this.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
the chanting thing goes on at ball games of all levels, though. Yank fans are douches, and I’m an ex-NYer. I just think we can’t fault fans for cheering for the home team. the cheer towels or whatever those things are called originated in college basketball, I think. none of it is original…
now, if they start doing that stupid FLA Seminoles/ATL Braves native american chant thing, we got a real problem…
The bleachers are a nice place to be from, but I wouldn’t want to live there.
I came to age in the bleachers of Cleveland Municipal Stadium, watching both Tribe and Browns games with my Uncle.
Now I’m the “old guy” who has the money to sit closer, enjoys the seat back and arm rests, and likes watching the game.
I wish they allowed stogie smoking at the ballpark! We lost the TRUE smell of a ballpark with the smoking ban.
Go to a horse track (which I love) if you want to smell stogie smoke (which I loathe).
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Bob Hamelin cares.
He cares big time.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Aug 11, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great win to slaughter the Tigers and pull within 2 games.
On a slightly more sour note, I hope Brantley’s wrist finally heals, since we need him to be back and play well to pull ahead of the Tigers.
And we need him to complete the Fun-bran-choo.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
But Joltin’ Joe has left and gone away.
Hey Hey Hey.
Hey Hey Hey.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 11, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m really not sure why people are so madly in love with Brantley. He’s a league average hitter, a decent fielder, and can run just a bit. Why has that engendered so much affection up here?
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
his hot tart
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
god… start
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You just spelled it out. He is all of those things… and he’s 24 years old and under club control. Lots to like.
Yep, 24. Way better this year than last. Versatile defender if not great. Good plate discipline will likely see the OBP improve over time, and hopefully slugging with it. Good player, not great. There’s lots to love in a good player that isn’t offensive in otherways.
Seems like the majority of the time that a ballplayer is inexplicably popular beyond his true value on the field, it comes down to a combination of these three factors:
1. Batting average. Fans love a guy who makes regular contact, even if it isn’t all that hard, and who doesn’t strike out too much. Even to the sabermetrically inclined, the aesthetics of baseball are such that a player who swings, hits the ball and then runs like hell is just more fun to watch.
2. Speed. We love fast guys, pests. They get us excited. They appear to be catalysts, even where the numbers don’t entirely bear out that notion.
3. Exceeding expectations. This is a big one in almost any aspect of life. Celebs get in trouble not for violating a set, static standard, but for not living up to expectations, however high or low they may be. We experience ballplayers in a similar way. Sabathia was a very good pitcher for years but basically treated like a scrub by everyone until he finally started pitching like a #1 starter.
Brantley hits for a lot of contact. He’s relatively fast, although I don’t see that as a factor in this case. But the main thing is that not much has ever been expected of him. He was the second player in the Sabathia deal, not the first, and in fact technically he was a PTBNL. Everybody has always said that he wouldn’t hit for power, so nobody blames him when he doesn’t.
All in all, he’s exceeding expectations. And everybody likes that — everybody.
You left out another big component to fan love: character. Joe Charboeau had it in spades. Sewing up his own stab wounds, opening beer bottles with his eye socket, fighting for money, and very, very fan accesible. Joe was still a fan hero when he was hitting .330
Our best players wear suits.
I’ll add one: height, or lack thereof. Fans have some inexplicable attachment to short players.
by jakesinger777 on Aug 11, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think its so inexplicable. Fans like players that they can easily identify with.
Most fans don’t possess the size or strength to be a professional athlete so its easier to imagine ourselves as being the small, scrappy player than the ones dripping with natural talent and abnormal size.
BYB is worse than PA. The Kipnis hatred warms my heart.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 11, 2011 12:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I just went over there … holy crap. It’s brutal. No one writes more than 7 words, most of which are misspelled. The best is when they start complaining we must be stealing signs. There’s no other way you can explain our home/road splits.
I don’t get the Kipnis hate; he’s been here for 16 games. He’s lighting it up, but he’s a rookie. He’s coming back to Earth at some point. It’s not Pedroia, where even Boston people admit he’s an obnxious prick, or AJ Pierzakdhlkdglskjski. What’s to hate except he killed them today?
Il faut d'abord durer.
He’s not coming back to Earth at some point. He is the best hitter alive. Maybe
Owner of http://www.fearthesword.com/
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Aug 11, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude that place is a cess pool! I don’t think I have ever seen worse sports fans in my life. Every other post was either talking about bombing Cleveland or wishing one of our players get injured. One guy was even wishing for Porcello to hit Kipnis in the face…
All this while acting like the Tigers are god’s gift to the AL and that the Indians have always sucked. It wasn’t that long ago that Detroit was losing like 100 games a season right?
by Scott Cannon on Aug 11, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The Tigers averaged 100.4 losses over five seasons, 2001-2005.
by Jay on Aug 11, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Just remember, they’re more miserable than we are. They will always be more miserable than we will be. They might have Jack White and Iggy Pop and Motown… okay, they win that one by a lot, but the city of Cleveland still put up more money to build a museum, so Cleveland—and not Detroit—got the Rock ’n Roll Hall of Fame. Detroit looks like a bomb went off forty years ago and nobody bothered to clean up.
These people live in Detroit. They have to root for the Lions and Michigan and Eminem and the auto industry, and their only Cleveland jokes are the same stale 30 year out-of-date “HURR DURR THEY SET THEIR RIVER ON FIRE HAHA” ones everyone makes.
This is not even a contest, really. We got this.
by ameliorate on Aug 11, 2011 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
It’s a weird old fight for me, too. My grandfather taught at the U of Toledo for 30 years and became a Tigers fan because that’s what was on TV there. My grandmother, his ex-wife, is a die-hard Indians fan. They’re sort of fond of each other now, in a resigned sort of way, and mostly they fight about baseball.
prsancho, are you from the north of England? Your use and placement of the word ‘what’ is something that I’ve heard out of the mouths of my in-laws, not to mention the inhabitants of Coronation Street.
Just wondering, especially after that extended EPL thread….
T.O., you got right that I am not an American, but I could not be farther from England. I am from Southern Brazil (or “Northern Uruguay”, as our beloved fellow Brazilians love to tease us with). I believe “which” would be more appropriated, but “what” makes sense when one thinks in Portuguese.
It’s very cle.com-ish over there. Not tounge-in-cheek, same level of discourse.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Cleveland has many more reasons to host the Rock Hall than just “put[ting] up more money”: Alan Freed, The Moon Dog Coronation Ball, tons of bands, etc.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This is true. The DJ Kid Leo helped “break” many bands when Cleveland was a more significant market.
Springsteen
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Detroit rips are any funnier than Cleveland rips. The city itself is a sad story.
Screw the teams though.
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you. I’m rooting hard for the city of Detroit, just like I am for Cleveland. But you best believe if a Tiger fan says something disparaging about Cleveland, I will damn sure pull out the big guns.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 11, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, certainly. But one can root for a city without rooting for its sports teams. I hope Detroit survives and thrives the same way I do any Rust Belt city. That Chrysler commercial during this year’s Super Bowl gave me goosebumps. But screw their sports teams and their crazycakes fans.
Want a mindbender worse than cle.com? Check out the forums at Motown Sports. It’s sometimes literally impossible to tell if these people even like the team they’re discussing. If it didn’t say “fans of Motown sports” on the tin, one would sincerely wonder.
Detroit is a lot like Cleveland. And we, as residents of a sometimes-dying rustbelt city should be sympathetic, at least a little bit. I have family who lives in that area who are afraid to go downtown sometimes. I asked if it was worse than Cleveland and they said “yeah, if you can believe that.”
But f*ck their sports teams. Seriously, I can’t stand them.
Cleveland’s in better shape in a lot of respects. Take a look at S&P’s Case-Shiller index of home prices for the two metros. The typical Detroit property is at like 60% of its 2000 value. In Cleveland, as in several other metros, current prices are more or less flat in comparison with 2000 prices. By the way, this excludes REOs. Believe me, Detroit has had more of those. Moreover, values are so low everywhere that it’s common for financial institutions to walk away from this collateral. Even in a relatively good neighborhood, the best house on the block might be worth $20,000, tops (although the tax assessments probably won’t reflect this).
Speaking of taxes, there are 14,000 – 16,000 tax-foreclosed Detroit properties up for auction this Fall (the final list should get published tomorrow), and next year’s tax foreclosure class is projected to be significantly bigger. City and County inventories exceeded 60,000, last time I checked. Keep in mind that there are only 390,000 parcels in the Detroit. It costs the City and County something like $400 bucks per property per year to maintain this inventory. It’s a crisis.
That said, Detroit’s a lot of fun right now, and if you want cheap housing and to really be an urban pioneer or whatever, there’s no better place to make a go of it. Just do your homework before you buy anything.
The shorter version of that is: Cleveland has problems, but never fell as far as Detroit because it also never peaked as high.
I like the idea of Detroit. I’m not sure I’d like Detroit. i have no intentions of being an urban pioneer. I like cities full of potential and good people.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 12, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
? and the Mysterions, MItch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, Nugent, the MC5, Bob Seger – the list is endless.
Our best players wear suits.
Don’t under estimate the Kid. Ten years from now when The Strokes are drivin’ taxis and re-modeling condos, Kid Rock will still be pumpin’ out hits.
Our best players wear suits.
BTW, I heard a Spainish version of “96 Tears” with the original band members while I was in Oregon. And that tunes being re-cycled almost 50 years after it was a hit. ? must be in his late 60’s at least.
Our best players wear suits.
Remembering that song just caused me to projectile vomit.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel stupid, but which sight is PA?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
ah, I try not to venture out of the Cleveland SBN websites (minus FTS) because maybe its me being pretentious, but I find a lot of the other SBN sites in these sports to be far inferior.
I was juts curious about what they were saying about BYB about all those stupid comments and they weren’t far off. Just disgusting.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
There’s a couple of sites though that will give us a run for our money – like the Royals and Mariners sites.
Our best players wear suits.
I registered on both of those, because you’re right…..the guys that are left watching baseball in those towns are truly fans of the game. They’ve suffered as much as anyone in the last 15 years.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The Ms set the AL record for wins in that span…
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
…and the Indians went to two world series in that span.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
’95 is actually outside of your span.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I nearly updated it, but figured anyone who did the math was worth the snark. Kudos.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d say PIT fans have had it far worse than SEA and KC fans.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t checked Pit’s SB site, but i’ll bet their fans seem pretty hip. I’d wager Milwaukees are ok, too, based on the response when we borrowed them for their “home” field
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
there are always exceptions. Over on the football sites, the Chiefs website is run well (makes me think KC has some good quality fans) but there are a lot of others that are just utter crap.
You find good ones, but they are hard to find.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
which site is AN? I don’t know the abbreviations for all the sites.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I wonder if the reason we gave up White and Pomz was that Colorado threw in some extra run support with Ubaldo.
Yanks are the Empire. Red Sox are the Empire with PR claiming they are the Rebellion.
by OPace on Aug 11, 2011 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I’ve put up some wallpaper-sized images from the game for those who want ’em here.
Between the game and the weather and the vibe in the crowd, it was a great night to be an Indians fan. There were points during the contest where the autumnal-looking sky, the occasional cool breeze that kicked up, and the buzz in the crowd took me right back to the Tigers series in September 2007. Just sayin’.
Looking very forward to going for the sweep tomorrow night. LGT!
--
Wahoo Baseball, baby!
Hoynes reports that Acta approvingly refers to Kipnis as a “dirtbag.” I’ve often heard “dirt dog” to describe this type of player. Anyone else?
by tabler84 on Aug 11, 2011 5:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Anything d-bag is derogatory – maybe it reflects the cameradarie in the locker room?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 11, 2011 7:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah in the interview Acta was pressed to explain. Not convincing. Dirt Bag is not a nice thing to call someone.
Okay, it does have a history of usage in baseball contexts as an honorific. Still, it obviously resonates much more powerfully as an insult.
He got it right. The term has been around for a while. I thought the reporter who asked the question was joking. I’ve heard it for years.
http://www.longbeachstate.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/dirtbagmeaning.html
No, it’s been around. Ricciardi used it.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Grady Little, too.
Acta’s English (and baseball English) is fine.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree (but frankly it doesn’t matter, and who cares as long as Kipnis knows its not meant in a mean spirited manner). We had a player on my high school team we called Dirt-Bag, because he was always diving after balls or sliding into every bag he came too. He was hands down the nicest guy on the team.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 11, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Though this reminds me of a Phillies game I attended in the early ’90s when they had Lenny Dykstra and Dale Murphy in the outfield- they had a giveaway with a poster of the two titled “Dr. Dirt and Mr. Clean”. Wahw- can you imagine two more opposite players starting next to each other??? And Murphy replaced LGFT Von Hayes in RF…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 11, 2011 9:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Totally have that on a baseball card at home
by supermarioelia on Aug 11, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The current version of “Nails” is just sad to watch/hear.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I was surprised that was a thing. Isn’t “dirtbag” just synonymous with “gritty”?
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Thought so. I’m pretty sure if he’d called him a douchebag this debate would be a bit more on point. Never heard that as an honorific.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
“Douchebags are hygienic products; I take that as a compliment.”
by cleveland teamer on Aug 11, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Given the stakes, Kipnis’ excellent performance, Ubaldo’s lockdown start, and the general hit parade made this one of the best games I’d ever been to.
Being on STO for winning Subway coupons was pretty cool, too. Though I have to admit, it’s really hard to pretend you’re jazzed about Subway for thirty seconds.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
Is anyone else curious about the “major business announcement” to be made by the Indians today? Hopefully it’s nothing bad, cause it’s my birthday!
And nevermind…Mark Shapiro’s twitter says: “Cool” announcement coming midday today from us on the business side. Stay tuned sharpen your skates…
Awesome.
by sandyalomarfan on Aug 11, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
My guess is either Snow Days is coming back or a collegiate hockey game will be held at the Jake.
by Roger Dorn on Aug 11, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I remember this being thrown around a few months ago; not exactly a hockey fan, but I’d be buying tickets the minute they go on sale.
You are reading my signature.
I’m not much of a hockey fan either, but Colorado College is pretty good, and they’re the only real team here in the Springs. I go to two or three games a season, and they’re usually a ton of fun, particularly since I aim for teams like Ohio State or Wisconsin, midwest schools I can root for. I’d recommend it.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Funny that Ubaldo’s WPA is negative.
Speaking of WPA, does anyone know if stats such as avg WPA per game or % of total games with positive WPA exist and where they can be found?
Fangraph’s player pages show WPA on the Game Log tab. You could then sort by WPA. Ubaldo’s WPAs, for example, range from .469 (7/9) to -.425 (6/12). 9 have been above 0, and 14 below.
It’s not that surprising that the WPA is negative – to WE, a run is a run is a run, and Ubaldo’s 4th inning is not all that much better than Porcello’’s, from that perspective.
Another way to say it is that the pitcher’s WPA incorporates the entire defensive effort behind him as well.
So in the case of the scoring change mentioned above, even though Santana committed an error, Ubaldo’s WPA change remains the same?
Since I couldn’t game thread last night, let me just say:
UBIE, UBIE, OOOOO!
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 10:32 AM EDT reply actions
Kipnis appears to have excellent plate coverage. You can’t bust him inside and he can drive the ball the other way as well, as evidenced by his double over the head of Kelly in left.
Chisenhall has also been impressive at the plate. Nice short stroke, working counts, jumping on mistakes.
Whats concerning is that both look better at the plate than LaPorta.
lately it’s seemed that Chiz has done a better job of working the counts, something he was guilty of not doing in his inital callup
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Chisenhall has a beautiful swing. but i guess if having a beautiful swing counted for anything jack hannahan would own multiple MVPs
Branyan would be in the HoF, while still playing.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 11, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Branyan Swing:beauty::softball swings:mila kunis
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m terrified that loosing Laporta will turn him into a Phillips/Ludwick type. He’s got the potential…..i’m just hoping he gets that slugging % up to around 700 consistently so it becomes less of an issue
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You must mean J.R. Phillips.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Aug 11, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
woops, OPS
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s still plenty an issue at that level.
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
For a corner infielder? Yes. Would the Indians tolerate it a little bit longer, and hopefully cash in the rewards? Possibly, when you have C/SS/CF/2B putting up more power than their positions would dictate.
My original post is that I hope that Laporta fights his way to CLOSE to league average next year, because if he doesn’t I don’t feel there will be much opportunity for him to stick around, and we have zero power from that side of the plate. (And no reason to think it’s easily replaceable)
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 11, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He seems like a guy who was allowed to just rake in the minors instead of being forced to work on certain things. I do get the impression that he’s got too much going on in his head, but that he’ll settle into something more of a comfort zone once the learning curve flattens out. He’s a good natural hitter, but he’ll probably never be great.
That seems like a lot of armchair evaluation. I doubt they’re just letting him do whatever he wants in AAA. I’d guess the pieces at work are:
A) he’s done about everything right in his two AAA stints, walking 54 times vs 76 K’s, with an ISO of 238,
B) there is not a lot of major league quality breaking stufff in AAA for him to ‘practice’ against,
and C) he’s had a lot of injury problems that have surely screwed up his timing.
And, as always, D) baseball is really hard, and LaPorta is not a guy who has incredible talent for the majors. It’s going to take a while, if it ever happens.
Agree with all that, but none of it was really contrary to what I said. I think B is particularly important, though, and largely what I was getting with the comment about being allowed to rake (not that they weren’t working with him on stuff, that he just didn’t have a lot of opportunity to work on his biggest flaws). I don’t think C is that big of a deal with his performance now, but probably some of his past performance. D should say Major League Baseball is hard. The minors weren’t hard for him – see B. The only thing that seems to be lacking, and I mean the only thing, is pitch recognition. That’s why I think he’ll be good, everything else seems to be there as a hitter.
He’s going to hit somewhere, I’m relatively sure. His contact issues are not nearly as bad as Chris Davis, who’s sometimes brought up as a comp—that’s especially evident if you look at their minor league numbers. He’s struggled with injuries and that’s affect his transition a great deal, I suspect.
That said, if he were a first division starter, I think more would’ve emerged by now. I do think he’ll end up as a useful piece for some team, maybe even the Indians, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be valuable enough to really make anyone angry. Ludwick isn’t a very similar player but, does the loss of Ludwick really sting? I forgot about that a long time ago.
I’m guessing a 8-12 year major league career, in the Lyle Overbay mode. Now, he just needs to get over to the NL.
like HeWhoShantBeNamed, I could not care less about losing Ludwick. Guthrie tees me off way more than those two.
Laporta will end up better than Davis, IMO. And I hope his emergence is with us.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I went to the game with my dad and he thought the PA announcer said “Jelly Pumpkin” when Duncan came to bat at one point. Icing on the cake of a good night.
by arria on Aug 11, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Great game, great game, really great game.
Remind me again … we have Kipnis until July of which year?
2028, when he retires.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 11, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I was around to watch these games. I can’t help be struck by the following points:
- the Indians were not a playoff-calibre team to start the season
- despite this, they played playoff-calibre ball for a signifcant chunk of the season
- the current team is vastly different from the team that started the season
- I have no idea what this last point means for the final stretch of the season, but games like last night sure make it look positive.
You have to say the games over the past week and half make it look positive. We played the Red Sox and Rangers very tough at their parks.
yay
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 11, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I was on vacation when the Ubaldo deal went down, so it was with great glee that I went through some of the old comments of the Detroit fans this morning. At the time, they were deriding the Ulbaldo deal as foolish and short-sighted and slapping themselves on the back for the Fister/Pauley trade.
The internet has made being a fan infinitely more entertaining.
No one has mentioned this yet, but this is the Tribe’s first series win since July 4-6 against the Yankees.
Now let’s make it a sweep.
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