Twins defeat Tigers, Indians now within two games
Also, some former Indian hit his 600th home run.
9 months ago
FlaGators
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I have lots of favorite Thome memories. Seeing him homer in his rookie season was fun. But I most remember the Boston playoff game – ’99, I think – in which he kept smoking balls over the right-center wall in an effort to keep pace with the Boston machine. Alas, not enough, but he was so fierce in that game.
I love Jim Thome, and as unpractical, unrealistic, and as bad an idea as it may be, i would love to see him back in a tribe uni before he retires.
Remember a year or so ago when Manny came out and said that he would love to come back and play for the Tribe to end their careers? I can’t remember if he said Thome was on board or not, but I do remember him saying something about him talking to Thome about it.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
ESPN would have covered Thome’s 600th career home run, but they were too busy following Jeter’s chase for 3,050 hits.
by tabler84 on Aug 15, 2011 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
ESPN has their way over “covering” sports so ass-backwards. All they report on is the Yankees, Red Sox, Miami Heat, Brett Favre, etc.
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 15, 2011 9:28 PM EDT reply actions
You forgot Snooki
OCab is no longer my bête noire.
by stuart dean on Aug 16, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
F ESPN, right? I mean we all know they suck. Why does it keep coming up in discussion? That’s like saying, “Wow, that Kim Jung Il is kind of a jerk.” I haven’t watched any ESPN in a year and a half, I don’t frequent their website anymore, and my life is better for it. We all recognize they’re bad; just avoid them rather than going back to see if they still suck.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
by Joel D on Aug 15, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hate them as much as the next guy. I still head to the site occasionally, but whatever. You’re right, though. Who cares enough to keep bringing this up?
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 15, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not the same as ignoring cle.com. ESPN still drives big parts of the national conversation and general understanding of sports fans. It’s worth cutting them down at every opportunity.
I think it gets laborious. “Hey, guess what? ESPN loves the Yankees/Red Sox and stupid, manufactured drama!” Is that really worth bringing up over and over again, especially here?
Trombone/creamy/soda.
Agreed. I never understood why fans care so much about what the media thinks about their team. Whining about where your team’s highlight ranks on SportsCenter or where they fall in the latest power rankings is close to the lowest form of sports discourse.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 15, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Whining about where your team’s highlight ranks on SportsCenter or where they fall in the latest power rankings is close to the lowest form of sports discourse.
Were you in Ames last weekend?
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Not talking about the politics but the name of the event.
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, comparing it to the comment section on cle.com is a false comparison. It is more appropriate to compare ESPN’s failings to someone like Hoynes, as both hold positions of influence and have a responsibility to their audience to inform and to maintain journalistic integrity.
by tflannery on Aug 16, 2011 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t watch ESPN even when they are showing college football or anything else?
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
Not for the last year and a half, no. I didn’t think there was that much ambiguity in my statement.
Trombone/creamy/soda.
There wasn’t, but I just wanted to double check.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
Never watch – used to only watch
OCab is no longer my bête noire.
by stuart dean on Aug 16, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Free your mind of the ESPN burden, Grasshopper…
A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her.
The senior monk carried this woman on his shoulder, forded the river and let her down on the other bank. The junior monk was very upset, but said nothing.
They both were walking and senior monk noticed that his junior was suddenly silent and inquired "Is something the matter, you seem very upset?"
The junior monk replied, "As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?"
The senior monk replied, "I left the woman a long time ago at the bank, however, you seem to be carrying her still."
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Aug 15, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I believe someone here already made the comparison to Wal-Mart previously, but it really is very accurate in my opinion.
Complaining about ESPN coverage is like going to Wal-Mart and complaining about the quality of customer service. If you are looking to ESPN for quality, in-depth, unbiased sports coverage, you only have yourself to blame.
Minnesota just showed a clip of Omar congratulating Thome, half inning after showing clips of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron doing the same.
It’d be cool to see Thome last one season longer than Vizquel, because I have to think Thome is a first ballot guy and Vizquel isn’t, but maybe Thome’s goodwill could sweep Omar in on his second. That’d be a fun trip, LGT Cooperstown reunion.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Rob Neyer apparently disagrees, saying Thome isn’t going to get in on an early ballot. The baseball Hall of Fame makes no sense to me.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Just try to imagine any writer saying that a Yankee or Boston hitter would not get in first ballot after hitting 600.
Oh come on, you really think Neyer cares about that? I’ve read him for many years and never once thought he favored players or teams in certain cities. He’s making an argument about Thome based on historical comparisons; what does that have to do with the cities in which he played?
All this whining about New York and Boston getting preferential treatment gets old sometimes. The whole world isn’t biased in favor of NY and Boston and against Cleveland, like some people seem to think.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 15, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole world isn’t biased in favor of NY and Boston and against Cleveland, like some people seem to think.
No really, it is. Try talking to more people from outside Ohio. LGT didn’t make this up.
by jhon on Aug 15, 2011 11:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People in every city think ESPN (and the media in general) is biased against them; it has nothing to do with Cleveland. I never once said this feeling was exclusive to LGT (although some people here seem to think that ESPN has a “special” hate for Cleveland).
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 15, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
People in every city think ESPN (and the media in general) is biased against them
Not trying to sound like a smart ass, but I have a very hard time believing that Yankees and Red Sox fans think that the media hates them.
And we’ve been through this before; ESPN seems to capitalize on opportunities to take shots at Cleveland.
Actually, I think you will find that NY fans think ESPN is in love with the Red Sox, and Boston fans think ESPN is in love with the Yankees.
Scary but true.
They’re also both right
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But they would fight that fact to the death
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN is in love with ratings = large markets
OCab is no longer my bête noire.
by stuart dean on Aug 16, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
and in this way, they are no different than anyone else that operates in visual media.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
and in this way, they are no different than anyone else that operates in visual media business
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t mlb network a premium channel? I forgot to add that premium channels generally are a bit different because since they are premium, they do not have to sell themselves out to get people to watch, the people are already paying.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I have TWC but don’t get mlb network. I figured it was like NFLN where you have to pay for it or get the right provider who has their deal with it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You probably have it, if you have the “advanced” bundle.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have MLB Network on my 200+ channel lineup on Dish Network. I need to buy the higher package to get it.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They can give a fairer representation since they only provide news about the mlb. They have an hour to focus on the 30 mlb teams, they can actually show clips from most, if not all, games with discussion.
ESPN reports on all other major sports. So when they focus on baseball, they will gravitate to big market/stories such as BOS, NYY, PHI as they very limited time slots in that hour.
If you’ll recall, the coverage of the Phillies was fairly minimal that first year they made the Series, the focus was more on the Braves as they were the traditional powerhouse in that division. Now the Phillies are the powerhouse and will get more coverage.
This argument will also default to something Cowherd mentioned this morning. The mlb network most likely will always get the baseball traditionalists (purists is the term Herd used). Baseball junkies know that if they want more info, they will turn into mlb for their info. ESPN is more focused on capturing the average fan, not the traditionalist. Therefore they focus on the big name/story.
Baseball Tonight and Quick Pitch are both one hour long. There may be business reasons for ESPN’s coverage, but the amount of time they have to focus on baseball has nothing to do with it.
ESPN has gone all-in for a handful of major markets. That’s their choice. Whatever. I no longer argue that ESPN sucks, I just point people in the direction of MLBN.
I consider MLBN more of a “house organ” that needs to promote fan interest of its dedicated sport more fairly across all franchises than a “for-profit” network like tWWL.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
MLBAM and MLBN were both created with funding from the owners, and revenue from each flows back to the owners. And these are lucrative operations – by 2015, they’re evpexted to have revenue of $800-900 million. They have every incentive to be even-handed in their coverage.
And we’ve been through this before; ESPN seems to capitalize on opportunities to take shots at Cleveland.
You say that only because you’re a Cleveland fan, so these supposed shots at Cleveland stick out in your mind while what other fans think are shots at their teams are ignored by you. That’s not an indictment of you, by the way, it’s human nature — we remember things which concern our teams and/or confirm our preconceived notions while ignoring other events.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For many, human nature is to single out the weak one and humiliate it.
by jhon on Aug 16, 2011 12:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Believe me, I’ve noticed ESPN taking shots at the Bills, Nets, etc. before. I’m not saying Cleveland is the only target here.
I’m just saying that when ESPN, for example, finds it necessary to combine an Indians vs. Blue Jay highlight with quips about The Decision, it’s extremely over the top. I can’t even compare that to another diss against another team/city.
Your grand fight against our cognitive bias is very noble of you. But the lengths to which you take your role here as defendant apologist is rather nauseating.
by TKilbane on Aug 16, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not nearly as tiresome as all the “ESPN sucks, they hate our team!” whining which is starting to permeate every single thread on this site. We’re supposed to be better than that.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
which is what he is trying to achieve
by The Licensed Pessimist on Aug 17, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Arguing the other extreme isn’t the best way to achieve balance.
But I guess I should look at who I’m talking to.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 17, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m most definitely not an ESPN apologist, I just don’t understand why we need to keep having the same “ESPN sucks” conversations over and over again. We know they suck, what is the point of repeating it all the time?
But the reasons they suck aren’t because they have a deep hatred against Cleveland sports, as some fans here think. That’s just ridiculous. I just find it humorous that every fan base thinks the media has a “special” hatred for their teams.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
as some fans here think
I haven’t seen one person here say this. I think this is why people are tired of hearing from you on this topic. The vast majority of the people here know exactly why ESPN sucks, and you said it yourself.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 17, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Buckeye Brad often brings up some good points.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 18, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, only I’d throw in Chicago and LA, too.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 16, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Neyer may not care about that, but his point was what the BBWAA voters would do, not what they should do. The reality is that Thome would have an easier time making the hall of fame had he played his entire career in NY or Boston (or, for that matter, Philadelphia).
The reality is that Thome would have an easier time making the hall of fame had he played his entire career in NY or Boston (or, for that matter, Philadelphia).
I’m not really sure that your statement is true. Is there any evidence that BBWAA votes favor large market teams when voting for HoF or MVP or any other awards? I don’t think there is. Do you have any evidence of that, or are you just assuming that because the whole world is always biased in favor of NY and Boston?
I know people always assume that NY or Boston players will have the advantage in national awards because people think the media is always in their favor, but it’s not really true. Before A-Rod won the MVP in 2005, no Yankee had won the award since 1985, a period of 20 years (when there were some great Yankee teams with many great players). Derek Jeter, for all his love in the media, has never won MVP when there have been two years where a reasonable argument could be made that he deserved the award. And those are the same writers who vote for the Hall. Is there any examples of players who made the Hall based on their performance in NY or Boston who didn’t deserve it?
BBWAA voters are equally distribute around the country. I see no reason to think that they would more likely vote for a player if he played in NY or Boston or Philly than any other part of the country. Assumptions like this, with no basis in fact, are really what bother me.
It’s fine if you want to rail against the media, they do many things poorly. But don’t translate those faults to making false assumptions based on facts which don’t exist. The whole world isn’t in favor of the big markets in every situation.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, there’s the fact that Jim Rice got in at all, compared with non-existent support for a guy like Alan Trammell.
by Jay on Aug 16, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
And Jim Rice isn’t even the most egregious case
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s more of a testament to the voters’ idiocy rather than proof of a NY/BOS bias among HOF voters. There are a lot of players in the Hall that aren’t worthy – Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, and Andre Dawson spring to mind.
I want to pose this question for him then. Is Derek Jeter a first ballot? He has a lower WAR than Thome in ~900 more PAs. He also has 3k hits and was a yankee. I have to question neyer if he seriously thinks Jeter is a HOFer but Thome isn’t.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Jeter will be a first ballot, but should he be is an interesting question. I would say anyone who has a good enough career to get 3,000 hits or 600 HRs should be.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Positional value is a huge part of the equation here. And, right or wrong, perception is a huge part as well. Thome fits the mold of a steroid user while Jeter excels at the non-PED skills.
Also, I don’t want to speak for Neyer, but I don’t think this reflects his personal opinion.
JEET’S MR. OCTORBER II (AND MR NOVEMBUR)!
by JulioBernazard on Aug 17, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Sigh. Yup.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
This SBN piece could be funnier, but is still enjoyable.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Thominate ’em all series, Jimmy. Congrats!
by JulioBernazard on Aug 15, 2011 9:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Was always my favorite Indian growing up. Broke my heart to see him leave the way he did. I’m ready to forgive now. Hats off, Jimmy.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 15, 2011 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m not. In everyday life, sure. But this is sports, and I’m nursing this grudge as long as I can. He lied and then he left. He didn’t even have the decency to admit he was all about the money like Manny did. Screw him.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
Agreed. I missed Manny when he was gone, and was sad to see him produce like he did for the Red Sox. There was no part of Manny leaving that WASN’T about the money, though; we truly believed (like we did with Lebron) that Thome was one of ours, a product of our system, and someone that would always play for the Indians.
He had every right to go, and he definitely made more money in Philly, right in his prime. We ended up slotting Hafner into his spot, which lessened the blow….but man, his defection really hurt. You could even argue that it was the last part of the glory days of Cleveland Baseball ending.
I’m happy he hit his 600 home run. Everyone says he’s a great dude. Glad he got his hits somewhere else.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
You could even argue that it was the last part of the glory days of Cleveland Baseball ending.
The 40s-50s?
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t interrupt my hyperbole
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not nursing a grudge because its my belief that if he saw the Indians being competitive, he probably would have stayed. Was it really about the money which wasn’t significantly far off? probably not. The simplest answer is that he didn’t want to be on the team the Indians were becoming and if you look at the direction the team headed towards the next couple years, you can’t fault him that much. The Indians did suck.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Meh, same argument for the TWoA. Wanted better team mates, and a chance at a ring. Still doesn’t excuse the way he did it…..we could have traded him in a lost year for prospects to speed up the return to contention, if we knew he was going to leave. Every indication he gave us was that he wanted to stay. The haul for even a half season of Thome in what was his best year, statistically, could have been respectable.
Same bottom line (and same argument we’ve all had on the subject) be up front with the team that brought you up and broke you in; you may not OWE it to them, but you forfeit the right to be surprised when the boos come in after running out on the team you swore to stay with.
I think that we should agree to disagree on this.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have missed it, but I don’t recall him ever expressing his surprise about the boos he received when he returned. I’d assume he has a pretty good idea why they booed him.
Well, Hamilton and Indians brass seem surprised by them.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And if he had really cared about winning, he could have waived his no-trade clause and won somewhere else right away and the Indians would have been jump-started on the next round of rebuilding. Instead, he strung everyone along and then took the money and claimed it was about winning.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 16, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
if you want to overanalyze it that much, you also have to assume that when the trade deadline approached, he had already realized that the Indians were in rebuilding mode.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
On July 31, 2002, the Indians were 57-59, 17 games behind the Twins. Several days before the deadline they traded Colon. The Robbie Alomar – Matt Lawton/Alex Escobar trade occurred before the season. There was no doubt the Indians were trying to rebuild.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 16, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Typo – the Indians were 47-59.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 16, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
which gives him what, a week to decide whether or not to waive his no-trade clause and decide right then that he would never live in the town he called his home for the last decade? most people cannot make a decision like that in a week.
there is more than just one factor at play. this is not a simple scenario where if he waives it, he is a selfless hero but if he doesn’t, he is a selfish bastard.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He dithered and dithered about the no-trade contract for well over a month in 2002. He knew the team was bad. He was on it. He had plenty of time to make that decision. This was not something that was sprung on him at the last minute. It was the talk of Cleveland for weeks and weeks.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 16, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was a fairly impulsive decision. But it’s one thing to accept non-contending right now, quite another to accept that you definitely won’t contend for the next 2-3 years — and who knows when, if ever?
Thome was 32 at that point. He had been to the World Series twice by age 27, and he spent the next five years realizing that it’s a lot harder to get there than it might have seemed; that the mid-90s Indians were the exception and not the rule.
You’re staring down what looks like your last baseball contract, carrying you to age 38. I think it’s tough to ask a 32-year-old player to accept that he probably won’t have a shot to return to the postseason until he’s at least 35. Not when he has options.
First couple seasons of the Gameday feature on mlb.com, before the pay per, I sat thru games fairly religiously, looking at the pitch location, waiting for the delayed outcome which would come in text several seconds later. It was a fairly frustrating way to follow a game.
Thome was the only guy I could call home runs on in that space. The pitch location would come in, the little dot located a little outside and low of center, and I would mutter, “ooh, in his wheelhouse”, and was rewarded many times.
Great hitter, great Indian. Still think he eff’d up his Cleveland departure, but he’s definitely going to wear the home colors when he gets inducted.
Last paragraph sums up my feelings. He’s going to be ours in Cooperstown, and he might end up being the only one of those guys that’s true of (if Omar doesn’t make it). That’s sad, but he was truly great for us for many years, and if he’s as clean as the reputation he seems to have in this era, then this is a truly a well deserved historic moment for him.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Agree that he did screw up the Cleveland departure (that will always stay in my mind), but I also agree he’ll be inducted as an Indian.
Ironically, Manny probably would have been inducted as a Boston Red Sox, but with the history of his substance suspensions and rumors of his being on steroids of some time, it’s likely he won’t be inducted into the HOF at all.
As for Omar, I still think he has a pretty good chance of getting in (he’s still one of the best SS to play in the last 20 years), and if he does, he’s certainly going in as an Indian.
I would have thought Lofton might have a shot too, though maybe his career at his peak was just a bit short (if not for that gruesome injury in 1999 when he jammed his wrist into 1B). Only time will tell.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I should have said about Lofton – jammed his shoulder (that was the real problem, and why his cannon arm dropped off a few notches during the 2000s).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I don’t recall Lofton ever having a cannon. Perhaps you’re thinking of Manny. Lofton tended to max out his throws, though.
by jhon on Aug 15, 2011 11:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ESPN reporting Thome will wear a Yankee cap when he enters the Hall of Fame.
by DixonCayne on Aug 15, 2011 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
On the inside-out rally cap version will be the Red Sox logo.
by YoDaddyWags on Aug 15, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, New York has always dominated baseball discourse. Always. From the beginning. It was the New York rules of Base Ball that Cartwright codified, not the New England ones. New York once had three teams when most of the country had none. The Yankees were pretty much the only AL team from the late-40s to the early 60s (a couple Indians and White Sox pennants notwithstanding). Historically, that’s just how it is.
Interesting graphic in that piece on HR’s per AB in the 600 club. Only guys ahead of him are McGuire, Ruth and Bonds, and we know 2 of them changed body types to get there.
Thome has always looked and acted like Thome. McGuire and Bonds are Transformers. Babe is the Babe, I guess – beer and cigars will never be performance enhancers, unless you’re at a speakeasy.
Regardless, quite an achievement for Thome.
I forget what city it was in, but that sign that the fans had that said “Ruth did it on Hotdogs and Beer, Bonds did it on the Cream and Clear” was fantastic.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
He was significantly smaller when he came up with the Tribe. Watch highlights of the ‘95 Series (as few as possible, it still hurts) and he’s a twig.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Very true. But to say he always looked like that isn’t necessarily true; he didn’t have the super late in life changes Bonds had, but he put on a lot of bulk. Everyone always talks about how he did it cleanly, and I think and hope he did, but he got much bigger than most people get after turning 24.
Il faut d'abord durer.
I think it is highly unlikely that he never did anything at all for even one day, but I say that not because of the home runs, but simply because he played throughout the 90s.
I dunno, miggy cabrera? the guy was a twig when he came up and now he is 240 pounds.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
bross sets ’em up; you knock ’em down.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Best part of the Kurk piece:
From 1995 to 2004, he hit 393 homers, fourth most in the major leagues… only Bonds, Sosa and Rodriguez — all with connections to performance-enhancing drugs — hit more.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
also, Bobby Valentine said it was a shame he couldn’t have hit #600 as a member of the Phillies, with whom he had “so many great moments.”
I am so freaking glad we didn’t hire him as manager.
Wow. I’m glad I didn’t see that.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
The Florida Gators - The most despised team in all of college football - Which is fantastic.
Haha. I probably would have done the same.
Editor at Alligator Army - The Florida Gators Blog
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Valentine was always overrated as a manager to me – I’m thankful the Indians didn’t go for “the big name” – Acta was much more knowledgeable about the Indians than Valentine was, and Acta is probably the better strategician too (in terms of calling plays outside of the box, such as hit-and-runs, suicide squeezes, lineup changes, etc., especially when compared to Wedge).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Valentine, as manager of the Mets, of course saw Thome more as a Phillie than with any other team. Having said that, Thome’s time with the Phillies, aside from a 2003 NL home run title, were clearly the least successful part of his career.
Thome made the postseason five times with the Indians and won five postseason series. He also made the postseason with the White Sox, Dodgers and Twins — all of his teams except the Phillies. I don’t know what specific “great moments” Valentine has in mind — his 400th homer? — but they certainly didn’t involve winning anything more than a single game.
I thought of that a while back – Thome’s main reason (besides money, of course) was to “win a ring” with Philly. Ironically, he never made the postseason with the Phillies, and they didn’t get to the WS and win until Howard took over and Thome was gone.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
You’re right, he’s probably just going by his memories of managing against him when Thome was in Philly.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 15, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to get Phillies games in Chiba City.
by YoDaddyWags on Aug 16, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you’re underestimating how big he was to that team; they didn’t peak as a team until after he left, but he was the dominating force in the middle of that lineup there, and the fans really loved him.
I guess. I hate Philly sports, so maybe i’m off base…..just going on the sentiment from their fans at the time.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You think that I, as a diehard Indians fan who lived in Philadelphia for that entire period, don’t have a good bead on this?
Yes, Thome naturally was a fan favorite, as a great player who chose to come to Philly. That lasted all of two seasons. He was injured in 2005 and supplanted by Howard, and when Gillick came in and traded Thome straight away, there was basically zero push-back from anybody.
Was he a key player on an couple of 86-win teams? Sure. And that about sums it up.
glad he did it while Hammy was off the air.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
by westbrook on Aug 15, 2011 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This. If I have to hear Hamilton one more time talk about Thome and “THE RIGHT WAY”, I might lose it.
Thome is a hall of famer and there haven’t been many (if any) steroid accusations about him or whatever. That said, he played during an era when steroid use was widespread enough that unless you were with a player 24/7 it’s impossible to make blanket statements about that player’s… um… providence.
Someone has to be selfish here: Way to take down the Tigers, Jim!!!
5 RBIs made the difference, and now the Indians are 2 games out. The Twins needed to win the first, as Verlander is going tomorrow.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
Was my first thought, too. Good timing.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty cool fact: Thome tied for the all-time lead in walk-off homeruns, with twelve. Seems like it should be one of those stats that is flukey to a degree, but the people who share the record are Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, Jimmie Foxx, and Frank Robinson. Flukey or not, not bad a bad cohort.
Il faut d'abord durer.
If I remember correctly, Pronk was way up there on Grand Slams
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Saw this on Law’s Twitter and didn’t know where to stick it. Chances of Lindor signing less than likely. This kid is really dumb if he doesn’t sign.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 15, 2011 11:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Don’t you think the Indians will try extra-hard to sign him considering how much our farm system has been depleted this year?
He was supposed to be a relatively easy sign.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 15, 2011 11:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Indians just announced that Howard has been signed.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 15, 2011 11:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Box score from game with Thome’s first home run — 9th inning two run game winner at historic Yankee Stadium. 14,627 of the best fans in baseball were in attendance. Steve Olin got the save.
Il faut d'abord durer.
No, no. The Best Fans in Baseball™ are Cardinals fans.
by ameliorate on Aug 16, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Steve Olin. Now I’m sad.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
by woodsmeister on Aug 16, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13799447 he is a video of it too
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 15, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions
Two games stand out for me with Thome. The first I was in attendance for against the Angels. It was well known that the Indians had Troy Percival’s number and Thome delivered with a walk-off Thomer, can’t remember the year, but it was awesome being in person for that one.
The second game I wasn’t at, but it was game 5 of the ’99 ALDS that we lost to the Red Sox. Prior to Pedro coming in and shutting us down, Thome hit a massive blast that kept the game close after we had given up an early lead. He was screaming like a mad man around the bases, pumping his fists and trying to will the team back into the game and series.
My favorite: Thome at the plate in extras, I’m in the upper deck 3rd base side. I turn to my friend and say “Thome will win this”. He disagrees. 2 pitches later, a walk-off to right.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 15, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
For whatever reason, the Thome memory that comes to mind was his first game back as a White Sock. I sat in the bleachers with my Thome Indians jersey, which I still have.
When his name was called during the pregame lineups, my dad and I gave him a standing O. Most of the people booed.
During one of his ABs, a pitch came high and tight than forced him to spin out of the way. The crowd gave a big, sarcastic cheer. It was one of the few times I was really embarrassed to be a Cleveland fan.
Yanks are the Empire. Red Sox are the Empire with PR claiming they are the Rebellion.
oooo I used to love when Percival came in.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Percival was an awesome pitcher back then. Todd Jones was no slouch either. We always seemed to rattle both of them.
by jhon on Aug 16, 2011 12:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I went to an Indians-Cardinals game with my mom shortly after the Indians acquired John Rocker in 2001. Rocker came in with the score tied at 6 in the 10th, and I’m somewhat embarrassed to say that we gave him one of the loudest ovations I’ve ever heard. “Rock me Like a Hurricane” blared over the speakers, he mowed down Bobby Bonilla, Craig Paquette and Kerry Robinson with two Ks, and I recall a feeling in the ballpark that the game was over.
Before Thome stepped up in the bottom of the inning, the scoreboard played a clip of Princess Leia saying, “Help me Obi-Wan Jim Thome. You are my only hope.” Then he launched the first pitch to right and we all went nuts. It’s the only walk-off win I’ve ever seen in person (though I did see a walkoff loss in Chicago years later, when Oldberto was working his magic).
he mowed down Bobby Bonilla, Craig Paquette and Kerry Robinson with two Ks
That is impressive.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 16, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Ks, or the remembering of those names?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
getting three batters out on just two Ks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 16, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe I’m being crazy here, but when I hear “mowed down” I usually think strikeout. Couple that with the way that’s phrased, and you can see the confusion.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Aug 17, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
After the discussion over the weekend, I believe we found the ideal way for Thome to get 600. Hats off Thome,
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 15, 2011 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Tied in the loss column!
by Harry Doyle on Aug 16, 2011 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I gotta give credit to the Tiger fans at the game. For a guy who’s hit a lot of HRs against them as part of 3 different division rivals, and hitting such a crucial HR in a pennant race, they gave him a very nice ovation. Very classy.
Yanks are the Empire. Red Sox are the Empire with PR claiming they are the Rebellion.
by OPace on Aug 16, 2011 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
From the Indians? Tarpley (8th round pick) is the only one we haven’t heard about. Though earlier reports said he wanted $3M, and since that would be more than Lindor got, I think it’s doubtful.
Dillon Peters (Round 20) hasn’t been announced yet either, but Lastoria, reading between the lines, thinks he was signed.
Phew.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jason Giambi just hit a 3 run walk-off after the broadcast put up an ad saying 3 more runs until tacos. I love baseball.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 16, 2011 12:06 AM EDT reply actions
More MLB TV magic. SD-NYM TX-LA split screen. My brother calls GB DP, home run. The Mets ground into a DP to end the inning, and Russell Branyan just hit a ball about 400 feet.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 16, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
jimcallisBA #Nationals give 3rd-rder Matt Purke 4-yr big lg deal. Details to come, total guarantee close to No. 3 pick Trevor Bauer ($4.4 mil) #mlbdraft
Crazy. I assume this guy is good.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
injury problems made him drop, but a lefty who throws mid 90s is worth it
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
injury was in 09 I guess, so he should be fine
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
well, sucks for the Nationals I guess, haha.
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
They must have seen enough to think he’s fine. Otherwise, I don’t see how he gets a big league deal, let alone the money that comes with it.
Jayson Werth
Lou Marson fan. Jason Donald advocate.
by Gradyforpresident on Aug 16, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
legit chuckle out loud (accompanying article)
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
They gave that guy a Major League deal? Can’t they see he has the dreaded inverted hipster?
by Chemo on Aug 16, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
big league deal?
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
Good news for Buckeye fans and the rest of the Big Ten.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 16, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the billion pitchers we passed on for Lindor. Still, glad he signed.
What a draft by the Nats, by the way.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Aug 16, 2011 12:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
@tribeinsider
Cleveland Indians
Indians also signed 18th rounder RHP Shawn Armstrong out of East Carolina University prior to the deadline #mlbdraft
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:16 AM EDT reply actions
hahaha…at least we signed 17 of our top 19 choices…thats big considering the toll the trades took on our farm
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really. Aside from a handful of picks, it’s likely the other 15 guys won’t combine to be worth as much as Alex White.
never know, thats why its good to sign as many of the top ones as possible
by valhallas_own28 on Aug 16, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
And once in a while, you get a Josh Tomlin. With TINSTAAPP and regular old fallout rates, need all the bullets in the gun.
What if...
by Danieldelamaiz on Aug 16, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
In 1993, the Indians had just switched their AAA affiliate from Colorado Springs in the PCL to Charlotte in the IL, which meant that for the first time in years that I was going to be able to watch the Indians farmhands play in Columbus. I went to two or three games in that series. In old Cooper Stadium there was a park outside the right field fence, and I remember Thome turning on a pitch and depositing one deep into the trees. It was by far the farthest I ever saw anyone hit a ball at Cooper Stadium.
It was like watching a man play with a bunch of Little Leaguers, really. By this point, he had no business being in AAA, but I think the Indians were still concerned, rightly about his defense at third base and IIRC, they called him up a couple weeks later.
It was relatively late in the minor league season, and Manny Ramirez had also been called up to AAA as well. Among Thome’s teammates on that 1993 Charlotte Knights team:
- Sam Horn
- Beau Allred
- Mark Lewis
- Paul Byrd
- Chad Ogea
- Jason Grimsley
- Mark Clark
- Kelly Stinnett
That Charlotte Knights team pretty much crushed the IL that year, going 86-55 and winning the Governors Cup. They were managed by Charlie Manuel.
@grantgw - sports and Cleveland and Columbus stuff
I remember when they came to Toledo to play the Mud Hens my dad and were excited to go watch them, too. I remember my dad saying he was looking forward to seeing “that guy ‘Thome’” (rhyming with “home” and pronouncing the “Th”).
My hat’s off to him. Always happy to see him do well. Hated to see him go but never held it against him.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
BOO Thome!!
OK, now that I got that out of the way, Congrats Jimmy. I have rooted for you for a long time over your career, Yeah, I was bitter when (and how) you left, but you were my favorite 90s Indian.
I drafted you especially early in my keeper league based on your minor league stats, and was thrilled when you qualified at 3B in 1993. You may have been a bit of a skillet there, but you turned out ok as a fielder. You would become a mainstay on my team.
I remember watching the bomb you hit off Clontz in the 8th inning in Game 5 of the 95 Series, (in person!). Was a majestic drive to deep center near the trees and proved to be the winning margin as Mesa gave up 2 in the ninth.
I remember meeting you in a bar in San Jose one night and having a beer with you and receiving your autograph. He is a very down to earth guy, polite and mostly soft spoken, even in a loud bar.
I will try to forget the move to Philly and your time with the hated Sox. Somehow I don’t dislike the time you’ve had with the Twins.
But as much as I hated the departure, I will look forward to you receiving your bust in Cooperstown, hopefully after the first ballot.
Ugh, Floyd tonight.
"I want to be playing at the end of October or the end of September -- not just at the beginning of April." —Grady
I’m worried that CHW has won six of seven contests against the Tribe so far this season.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
also worried that Fausto has to pitch in this series.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fausto has been quite good over the past month-plus.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not an indictment of Fausto’s pitching lately, he’s just been WTFPWNT by Chicago this year.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Get Herrmann up at the first signs of trouble.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve told this story before, but years ago down in Dunedin the Jays were playing the Phillies when Jim was with them. I jumped a few fences and ended up in front of the team bus after the game. Waited for Jim for a while, and he walked up, looking as solid as a tree trunk. Asked him to sign a card I had, and he goes to sign it, only to find that my marker has run out of ink. He tries another few times, then gives up, as there was no one else around with a writing utensil. He tried to mumble something to me, but it came out garbled and his chewing tobacco flew onto my arm. I’ve still got that Thome card signed with 5 faded Js.
by supermarioelia on Aug 16, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
Awesomely disgusting.
"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"
by Gradysmanldy on Aug 16, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Posnanski on Thome: http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/08/16/thome-2/?sct=hp_t11_a1&eref=sihp
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
A few more Thome stats (career) .. though last nite’s game via BRef:
WAR 71.1 (80)
WAR position 71.1 (53)
offensive WAR 74.9 (44)
OBP .403 (49)
SLUG .558 (20)
OPS .971 (17)
GP 2,456 (62)
AB 8,167 (122)
PA 10,020 (76)
RS 1,553 (53)
H 2,263 (150)
TB 4,555 (39)
2B 440 (109)
HR 600 (8)
RBI 1,662 (27)
BB 1,710 (8)
K 2,453 (2)
OPS+ 147 (41)
RC 1,952 (23)
XBH 1,066 (25)
AB/HR 13.6 (5)
there are a few other obscure stats on his BRef page as well.
Based on those numbers, he should definitely be Hall worthy and I would argue that a first ballot nomination is also worthy.
The most impressive stat for me is the RS (eun scored) as Thome is a bit of basepath slug. But he walked a ton and got into scoring position a lot. He is fairly high on a lot of those career lists.
I was curious where he ranks in ISO. He is 10th, 8th if you don’t want to count mcgwire/Bonds. Also, there are a couple ahead of him (pujols, howard) who are just in their prime years and have not started to age all that much. he may move up that list once they decline.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
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