Game 160: Tigers 14, Indians 0
Oof.
In another matchup of trade deadline acquisitions, Doug Fister again beat Ubaldo JImenez, but in this game the disparity was about as far apart as it got. Fister was in complete control of the plate, going eight shutout innings, striking out nine, and not walking a batter. He had no-hit stuff. Conversely, Jimenez ended his season on a disastrous note, getting rocked for six runs on nine hits. He couldn't find the corners of the strike zone; either he was missing the plate or missing on it. Jimenez was facing perhaps the most potent offense in the majors, but he has the stuff to tame any lineup. If he can't turn things around next season, the Indians are in deep trouble.
The Indians went with a couple of AAA callups after Jimenez left, and they fared no better. Corey Kluber ran into trouble in his third inning of relief, and by the time the inning ended, the Tigers had sent eleven men to the plate, scoring eight runs in the process (four off Kluber, and four off Josh Judy). Not many of the eight hits in the inning were cheap.
The Tigers are playing for home-field advantage in the first round (and, perhaps more importantly, a matchup against the Wild Card winner), so we'll be seeing a similar lineup tomorrow. I guess we'll see exactly how good Jeanmar Gomez is.

| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| Kluber | .003 | Jimenez | -.247 |
| Nobody | Else | Fukudome | -.044 |
| Was Any | Good | Hafner | -.042 |
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Ubaldo definitely needs to figure out that pitching in Detroit thing for 2012.
http://www.withorwithouttheh.blogspot.com/
I know I shouldn’t let it bug me, but it will annoy the crap out of me all winter if they end up 80-82. But, I’m predicting 82-80 for sure.
The silver lining, if we lose the final game and only finish 80-82 (which is still higher than most predicted us to finish when the season started, as well as finishing no worse than a tie in 2nd, which is also higher than virtually everyone thought when the season started), is the following:
If we finish 80-82, and Chicago wins to tie us at 80-82, we get the higher draft pick because Chicago finished with 88 wins last season, while we “only” finished with 69 wins.
I just thought of this an hour ago, as an added silver lining, if Chicago does win to improve to 80-82, the team they beat Toronto, will also fall to 80-82, and, that’s right, we would get the higher draft pick over them as well, as they finished with 85 wins in 2010, compared to our 69.
Therefore, I’m not suggesting we just go out and lose to Detroit; provided Texas wins tonight against the Angels (Texas is now leading 8-2 in the 5th, and the Angels were eliminated from postseason contention Monday night with their loss to Texas), the Indians could hand the Rangers the #2 seed with a win against the Tigers before their game with LA is completed – they start an hour later than we do), but if we do fall tomorrow night and don’t reach .500, Chicago winning and tying us may not be the worse thing in the world – we’re still 2nd, even if we have to share it, plus we jump up 2 draft spots. And, keep in mind, we improved from 69 wins to 80 wins (if we lose), while Chicago and Toronto both fell from their 2010 win totals (Chicago from 88 to 80 if they win, Toronto from 85 to 80 if they lose).
If we lose again, it’s not the worse thing in the world, though like I said, I’d like to finish the season on a winning note, or at least, put up more of a fight where Detroit doesn’t jump out to an early lead on us like they have the first 2 games – it’s been too easy for them over the last 10 games or so we’ve faced them, as they’ve gotten out to early leads in at least 6-7 of those games, maybe even 8 of them (the two in Cleveland that we narrowly lost, I think those two, we stayed with them throughout the whole game, but otherwise, it’s been pretty much one-sided affairs lately, especially compared to the early part of the season when we took 6 of 8 from them).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
And thus ends the positive part of the recap.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 27, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Six days ago, when Ubaldo was facing Chicago, I noticed that he had gone six straight quality starts since his last Detroit flareup, with 38 IP and 11 ER, along with a WHIP of 1.1 and a pile of Ks. “Nice bounceback,” I thought.
Then of course things went south.
I love the stuff he shows, but I wonder if his slight downtick in velocity is more significant than we realize. Either way, I’m eager for a re-launch in 2012, and no doubt he is, too.
I think the “slight downtick” is a distraction. It’s the obvious thing but also pretty evidently a minor thing, taken by itself. Does he need to make an adjustment to reflect that in his approach? Probably, but that adjustment is probably just an improvement he could have and should have made a long time ago. Bottom line, major league hitters can catch up to a 99 mph fastball, so slipping from 95 to 94 or whatever should not be seen as the be-all-end-all.
I wonder if we can take it by itself though. I don’t know enough details about pre-Tribe Ubaldo to answer this, but I wonder if rather than simply replace his 96 mph FB with a 93 mph one, he’s changed other things to try to compensate. Whether it’s mechanics or pitch sequencing or something else, it could have gotten us much further away from pre-2011 Ubaldo than we’d probably prefer.
I’m hopeful that his getting back to his usual offseason routine and working with Belcher will do wonders for him in 2012. After all, after his usual offseason routine after the 2009 season, we seen what he was capable of in the first half of 2010 (he was pitching as well as anyone had pitched in baseball since probably the time of Pedro Martinez, even better than what Beckett was doing in 2007 or Verlander in 2011).
Therefore, we can only hope that he can regain more of that ability – it’s certainly in there – it’s just a matter of getting it to come back out. Hopefully, we are able to do a better job of getting it to come out of Jimenez than we have to this point with Carmona, who looks like at times he’s going to regain it, then falls right off of the wagon again. Still, I suspect the Indians may give him another try with his option being picked up, especially with Carrasco sidelined until 2013. If that’s the case, let’s hope they both turn it around positively in big ways for the Indians in 2012 and beyond.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
3" one way or the other is the difference between painting the corners and missing/leaving it over the plate. From the pitcher’s mound that’s an error of 4/1,000 in release of the ball that Ubaldo needs to correct on a consistent basis. I hope he can do it, but it’s scary.
by playdoh on Sep 27, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This would actually be a decent time to do that at a reasonable cost. I’d be for an additional year and a team option attached to the current contract.
Do you think there’s any chance he’d do that? As of now, he’s a FA after his age 29 season. I’d have to think it would take a lot of money to pass on looking for a long term deal at that point in his career.
At this rate, there aren’t many teams that are going to want him for a long-term deal. So the price might be great to do it now.
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Depends on how long the extension would be for – if it’s an additional 1-3 years, that would still allow him to sign a FA deal at 30-32 – he would still likely get a good deal amount of money then IF he pitches well now.
The advantage of him signing now is, he would be sure to get extra money (and still a pretty good amount of money now) in the event that he doesn’t reach near that level he did in early 2010 (let’s hope though that he does and puts himself in that position at age 30-32 if the Indians are able to extend him now).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Among Ubaldo, Grady, and Fausto, we have (hopefully) one guy who can rebound to All-Star level next season. Then we can get something in return at the deadline. Of course, we might contend…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Sep 27, 2011 5:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn’t count on either Grady or Fausto. Ubaldo should improve, and like others I hope we extend him to try and restore value from the trade.
I think we’re still feeling the effects of how massive of a miss Hafner and Lee’s extension and non-extension were. Not to mention that Hannahan is our biggest hit on re-treads since, well… Betancourt. Peralta, well, he can burn.
by joeee on Sep 28, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We don’t extend Ubaldo because we traded for him. We should do this because he is a good asset and it’s an opportunistic time to bargain.
I understand that we don’t extend Ubaldo because we traded for him. But one of the reasons I hate that trade, aside from the concept that SP was an “area of depth,” is the fact that the best-case scenario showed us already looking to deal Ubaldo in more or less one year. But looking back on the trade, assuming we can extend, we will have gotten more years out of the asset we acquired – more asset.
Not more asset. Same asset, longer term.
The fact that we traded for him doesn’t enter into the decision-making at all.
Pavano was a hit as a retread—I’m sure there are others.
I agree that we find ourselves needing better starting pitching.
This is my view, not yours. We don’t resign him because of the trade, got that. But we might actually get lucky to take advantage of a (hopefully) brief window of struggle (even though he was bad when we traded for him). If it plays out like that, looking back on the trade, it might look less Texeira/Colon-esque than it could appear if we don’t extend. Otherwise, we simply traded a struggling NL west-er to a team trying to make the 2011, 2012 playoffs that can’t get any production out of LF, RF, 3B, or 1B.
Rec just for the Peralta comment.
So does anyone deserve blame for that debacle, or are we content to let it go because not one of us would have turned that trade down?
Or if not the FO, than how about our coaches at the time who apparently failed miserably at getting the best out of their player.
I think we blame the player. Peralta made no secret out of the fact that he didn’t want to play third. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Peralta was just phoning it in on losing teams. Pure speculation of course, but it’s hard to imagine that coaching can make that huge of a difference.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Sep 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

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