Fausto Carmona Arrested, Apparently Is Really Somebody Else
Apparently, Fausto Carmona is an alias, and his real name is Roberto Hernandez-Heredia. I'm sure there will be more to come on this story.
UPDATE: Fausto/Roberto is possibly 31, not 28. Story is still developing...
4 months ago
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I wonder if any of these guys have a clause in their contracts if they turn out to be older than they originally purported to be.
by Aussie Wahoo on Jan 19, 2012 3:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A specific clause or not, since age is clearly a significant factor in a player’s value, its got be considered a material misrepresentation of fact (or even fraud) that would allow a team to void a contract.
Well, I’m assuming he didn’t sign his contract as Roberto, so wouldn’t that make the whole thing invalid?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 19, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
The contract is valid and enforceable when there is a meeting of minds – offer, acceptance, and consideration. Signing is the way a party acknowledges the terms of contract. A person who signs a contract with a false name can still be held to to terms of the contract. Add to this, there has been a course of performance by both parties over several years that indicates that both sides agreed to the contract.
All this means that the contract is still valid and enforceable. The team could try to void the contract based on fraud, but I don’t think they would do that unless they have no plans to include Roberto in the team in any way.
This is a clear ase of fraudulent misrepresentation. I don’t think that is even debatable.
The fact remains that this gives the Indians an out in regards to Fausto’s contract. Whether or not they chosse to exercise it is the unknown. For all that we know, this could be the straw that breaks the camels back with the FO and Fausto. I’m sure they were planning to have Fausto in the plans for 2012, but it gives them the option at this point to reconsider.
One final thought, if the Indians in any way knew about Fausto’s identity issue, all of this analysis goes out the window.
by millionairesrow on Jan 19, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
While it was clearly misrepresentation of a material fact when he first signed with the team (fraud is really hard to prove since you have to show scienter), I’m not sure how material his age is to a one year extension. What difference does it make for the 2012 that he’s really 31 instead of 28? Is a 31 year old Roberto worth less than a 28 year old Fausto in a one year deal? If the team was tied to long term contract his age would be a bigger factor.
I think this is going to come down to the team’s philosophy about how it treats its players and whether they can overlook a poor decision made by a young (albeit not that young) man who was probably pressured to escape a horrible situation.
How ever they treat Faustberto, I hope the team beefs up it efforts at due diligence when signing other foreign players.
But the extension isn’t the contract, the contract as a whole would likely have been different, or theoretically could have been different, no?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
The analysis is pretty much the same in each scenerio, they thought they were getting a younger (and more valuable) player than they actually were.
by millionairesrow on Jan 19, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
If they can’t prove scienter (and I think it can be inferred from his conduct), it’s at least a unilateral mistake. They were mistaken about his age, he knew they were mistaken, and it’s material.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
He signed at age 19. Still pretty young, though adult by most standards.
I agree with your take. It’s hard to point to which decision was materially affected by misinformation regarding his age.
Having said that, strictly as a negotiating position, the Indians probably have leverage to reduce his salary by half, under threat of not only voiding his deal but suing to recover a portion of prior salaries.
I agree that they can probably do all of that legally, and as a lawyer this would make for a fun case to handle and an even better exam question for Contracts Law.
Now, as for dealing with real people. The pitcher formerly known as Fausto has demonstrated great presence and poise (think the bug game) in between some emotional and psychological meltdowns that impacted his performance. How will his employer accusing him of fraud or the like and trying to cut his salary impact his performance? I would guess not well, meaning that the effort to save say $3.5 mil by cutting his salary would net the team a pitcher not worth $3.5 mil.
From business perspective, the team needs to determine if a 31 year old Roberto with the track record of Fausto is worth $7 mil for one year. If he is, they shouldn’t try to renegotiate this contract, but use his real age to determine any long term deals they offer for subsequent years.
If they don’t think he’s worth $7 mil as a 31 year old, they should try to get out of the contract altogether.
by Harry Doyle on Jan 20, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see a contract adjustment, once successfully negotiated to a resolution, affecting his performance. Let’s face it, the guy is a mess regardless and a multimillionaire regardless.
fun case to handle and an even better exam question for Contracts Law.
If I end up going to law school and seeing this in Contracts, I will probably laugh during the class.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
this is what I suspected.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
Aaron Gleeman (in the headline link) speculates that an age discrepancy could give the Indians the right to void his contract. That doesn’t seem particularly in keeping with how the organization works, and Fausto/Roberto’s $7M is not necessarily a terrible deal, but it is an intriguing possibility to consider. The Indians have McAllister, Barnes, Huff, Gomez, Kluber as AAA depth, and $7M could go a long way towards filling the 1B hole…
Any speculation as to what becomes of the pitcher formerly known as ‘Fausto’ in this situation? Free Agent? Still under the Indians control?
Oswalt for $8 mil > Fauberto for $7 mil
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jan 19, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we really should be in on this
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein tweets some perspective for these kinds of situations:
It’s wrong, and jokes are fun, but also nothing wrong with some sympathy for people using any means necessary to escape 3rd world poverty.
Fausto was of course the kid whose teeth were so messed up when he joined the organization that one of the first things the team did was have them fixed so as to improve his nutritional health.
by APV on Jan 19, 2012 3:39 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
In response to the Nunez/Oviedo story, LGFT’s Ed Mujica commented, “At 17 years old, you maybe lose $100,000 or $150,000 when you sign [compared to a 16-year-old with the same skills]. And if you’re like 18, you might sign for $5,000 and maybe they give you an opportunity.”
Given his true age, assuming a different (and younger age) was probably Roberto/Fausto’s only chance of getting a look.
by Harry Doyle on Jan 19, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is awful for all parties.
Feel terrible for Fausto (yeah, at this point, he’ll always be Fausto if that’s what he wants). Absolutely agree with KG. Obviously not good for the Indians. Just a mess.
by DanHennessey31 on Jan 19, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I hear it comes in stripes
#couldn’t resist
by APV on Jan 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, that’s still better than pinstripes.
by johnf34 on Jan 19, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
That’s because no one could get his attention. Everyone was saying, “Hey, Fausto,” to him, but he’d never answer
by Harry Doyle on Jan 19, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I just don’t get how you can never let your actual age slip a single time in a conversation or write “Roberto” on something.
Even if it was worth several $MM to you to do so?
by JulioBernazard on Jan 19, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Oh course, but being on your guard 24/7 for like 10 years is tough. Even the best of us would find it hard to not still even one time.
Dick Whitman seemed to have made it about ten years.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 19, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Celebrities and other people change their names all the time. You get used to it. He’s Fausto, Sting is Sting, Elvis Costello is Elvis.
Scary.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 20, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
I have always thought so.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
The fake name also sounds made up, as it mixes LGFT Roberto Hernandez and major league P Felix Heredia.
-
At least we can bring back the Oldberto nickname.
by Roger Dorn on Jan 19, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Eh, the only thing that would somewhat bother me would be the age difference if true. Otherwise, I don’t really care.
AND may not get his visa in time to head to AZ for spring training.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 19, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I do think this could help sift through parts of his mental game that has baffled, at times. I have to wonder what Acta’s thinking right now too.
I have to wonder what Acta’s thinking right now too
This hat makes me look pretty awesome
by APV on Jan 19, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Should this disrupt Carmona’s role in the rotation, here is a reminder about our current depth:
Cleveland: Ubaldo, Masterson, Tomlin, Lowe, Huff (Huff could be swapped with the Columbus list)
Columbus: Gomez, McAllister, Barnes, Kluber…
Other possibilities for the Columbus rotation include Paolo Espino, Kelvin De La Cruz or T.J. McFarland
Nobody has mentioned Albert Pujols in this thread yet…. Oops there I go again
by Aussie Wahoo on Jan 19, 2012 3:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I’d have newfound respect for Fausto if he chose the name as his own inside joke.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Jan 22, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
HOW COULD WE NOT OFFER HIM TWO THE NIPPIN HAM FOR YU DARFISH?
by westbrook on Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This whole ordeal reminds me of the Seymour Skinner/Armin Tamzarian episode of the Simpsons. Even though it is just a name, my memories of “Fausto” will feel slightly weird moving forward. I feel like I have been ever so slightly duped.
by millionairesrow on Jan 19, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions
Damn, I had this information before it was posted here but couldn’t make it to the computer. I wanted to title it “Indians add new pitcher named Roberto Heredia”.
The potential for this to create significant visa problems for Fausto seems pretty real. Here is an old NY Times piece that covers the general problems of obtaining visas for baseball players. A brief appraisal of the situation makes me think that Fausto typically comes to the US with a P-1 visa, typically used for professional athletes and entertainers. In theory, the fraud he has committed makes it possible the US could deny him a visa altogether, though Fausto and/or Cleveland would likely submit a waiver request to get around the issue. Regardless, this definitely throws Fausto’s status into some degree of doubt.
I’m going to run this by my wife who is an immigration lawyer here in Ohio
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
My wife says that his status is murky. Typically people who get US visas under false identities are deported or denied entry. Almost in every case ICE gives them the penalty of being in the USA illegally. Given the length of time Fausto/Roberto has spent in the US, that translates to a 20 year ban from legally entering the country.
He will now need to apply for a visa under his real name where his arrest in the DR will be taken into account. Likely he will be initially denied and need to file for an exemption hearing. If you are at all familiar with the US government this can take months to schedule.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the update. The Marlins situation with Nunez/Oviedo seems better if only because it happened months earlier.
Nunez/Oviedo’s new visa has not been settled and his incident started in September. Fausto being caught could affect both of their applications. It goes from being a lone actor to appearing that this “problem” could be more systemic.
I assume that DHS and ICE would be very leery of appearing to condone this behavior by letting both back in the country so quickly.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
It’s really more up to DoS than DHS. DoS has to grant him a visa before DHS gets to make a judgement as to his admissability. ICE just removes them once they are here illegally, CBP makes the determination at the border as to whether a traveler is admissable.
All of which explains why NatiTribeFan’s immigration lawyer’s wife described his status as “murky.”
by Harry Doyle on Jan 20, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
The State Department (DoS) is the agency that will approve/deny any visas. Falsifying your ID is one heck of a way to get any visa requests denied for the foreseeable future. This has everything to do with the letter of the law – especially in today’s world.
I honestly don’t see any way he’s playing for the Tribe again. They can challenge this all they want, he’s not getting back in the US.
I just want to believe.
The hell with school, dopey! Take the money!
You and me could be partners, just like that Tiger Woods and his daddy.
by DanHennessey31 on Jan 19, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Cool our own name and age scandal. I don’t think that this changes our expectations for Fausto or whatever his name is next year. If he’s still on the team, he’ll probably perform just as badly as last year.
I think we went through this with a prospect we signed a few years back. Perhaps someone can fill in the details for me here.
Two years ago the Indians signed a guy they thought was Jose Ozoria for ~$500k. Turned out his name was…Wally Bryan.
I would really like to see Wally’s picture.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 21, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hope the scout was held accountable. Even I can tell he’s no shortstop.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 21, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Between Grady’s nude pics, Shin-Soo’s and now Fausto’s revisionist personal history, I’ve had just enough of these off-season hijinks.
"Sounds like 'Take the Z-Train' to me." -- Antoine Batiste
Well, to be fair, two of those were the actual guys breaking the law to cause the scandal. The other was one doing something silly, yet his business, with someone else breaking the law to cause the scandal.
But, I do agree. Enough already. Choo’s and this are plenty.
I can’t wait for the 2013 offseason when Nick Weglarz’s ska cover band’s tour dates conflict with Spring Training.
by JRontherim on Jan 19, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I knew this wasn’t true, but I googled “Nick Weglarz ska band” just in case.
by Chemo on Jan 20, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
still, Fausto Carmona is a great choice for a fake name
by AllenSmith on Jan 19, 2012 4:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I bet he used that “What is your porn star name?” formula.
by JRontherim on Jan 19, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
We might break a record for recs here. Pedroia as Eddie Gaedel better watch out!
by Ryan on Jan 19, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
you won the offseason, hell maybe the season
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a record for most Recs on here? You probably broke the scale here.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
I think 52 is short of Pedroia as Eddie Gaedel, but someone can correct me.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 24, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I am inclined to think the Indians would in fact look for a way out of the contract if the opportunity exists. I tend to think the team would have been much more likely to decline the option they just picked up if they knew his real age was 31.
The problem as I see it is that by the time the process for voiding the contract runs its course, assuming it’s successful, they won’t have anyone worth spending $7M on. If they hadn’t picked up the option, he would have been eligible for arbitration, and THAT would have been an interesting arbitration hearing.
It’’s not that they can’t “float” the $7 mil. They’re not paying it all to him right now anyway. (First they have to figure out who to make the check out to anyway). I think Ryan’s point is that they need to find talent worth spending that money on given the risk that they may have to pay it Fausberto as well.
I would submit “Fauxberto” as the new nickname but it doesn’t make much sense.
by JRontherim on Jan 19, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Adding $7 mil to their previous nonoffer would mean that the Tribe would be trying to sign him for $2 mil less than the Brewers paid him last year.
So crazy it just might work!
Is it possible/likely that the Indians knew his actual age and name? I seem to remember that when it came out that Miguel Tejada was actually older than he said, all of the teams that he had been on had actually known that he was older.
“Fausto” and Roberto Hernandez were both members of the AL Central-winning 2007 Tribe club.
According to B-Ref, Roberto Hernandez is the only player with that name to make it to the bigs. How strange that he was brought to the ’07 Tribe, which featured a clandestine Roberto Hernandez.
I wonder if Fausto was sweating bullets on photo day.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 19, 2012 5:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You wonder how many times he wanted to turn around when someone yelled “Roberto!” in the locker room.
In fairness, though, how many people do you thing ever cared enough to try to get Oldberto’s attention?
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 19, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
If they were trying to, they definitely were yelling.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jan 19, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If the Indians knew about this identity all along, maybe the only reason they signed Hernandez was to play a joke on Fauxsto.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
If only he could be somebody else every fifth day.
by ken from alexandria on Jan 19, 2012 6:05 PM EST reply actions
It seems like Fausto is really Roberto, but really this is just Roberto being Fausto.
by randallhank on Jan 19, 2012 6:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Awesome.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
I hope someone can find a photo of Roberto Hernandez with Roberto Hernandez from 2007. It would be almost as great as the pic of Starbuck and Starbuck at Starbucks. Almost.
by jeff kent's moustache HOF on Jan 19, 2012 6:20 PM EST reply actions
I was able to dig this one up:
(Yeah, yeah. You try and find pictures of Roberto Hernandez in profile)
by JRontherim on Jan 19, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
speaking of “criminally negligent”…
by jeff kent's moustache HOF on Jan 19, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
You are of course referring to J-Ron’s photoshop efforts.
by westbrook on Jan 19, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I cracked up at this
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting that Fauxberto transitioned to Fausto, presumably, sometime around ’99/2000. Oldberto was really hitting his stride around that time.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jan 19, 2012 6:21 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Hmmm…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
Semi-related question about the LGT twiiter feed. Do all of the moderators have access to post on it? If so, you guys should make some sort of clarification as to who is posting what. It can be confusing.
by millionairesrow on Jan 19, 2012 6:27 PM EST reply actions
With respect to the “rant” on today’s feed…I don’t know if it is Andrew or Jay. It is a sentiment I strongly agree with, though. My eyes were opened pretty widely a few years ago when I read this paper (pdf). For a kid like Fausto/Roberto, who obviously had the talent to be a major league pitcher given the opportunity (2007, 2007, 2007, 2007), not doing what was necessary to get that opportunity would have almost been criminally negligent.
It’s a tough situation for all involved. You handled the issues with aplomb.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 19, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Also, doesn’t this make the arc of his career even more confusing if he is 31?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
No, it makes it a lot more logical, I think. Had a career year around 26, has struggled to repeat. That’s a much more common story than a dominant age 23 season followed by slop, at least from my initial take.
I’d be completely fascinated to find out how the whole thing went down from the very beginning. From our Fausto’s recognizing his skills and the advantages of further youth, how he found the name and family, who approached whom, the intermediary, how the money changed hands, how the documents were made, how he erased his past once he got the new name, how he created a new past, how he eluded the chokepoints, when was he sweating that he was about to be discovered, who else knew, etc, etc., etc. What a story. I hope Scott Raab is listening! This is a New Yorker or Vanity Fair piece.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Jan 22, 2012 10:52 PM EST reply actions
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