What, Exactly, Do We Think We're Doing?
by afh4 on Jan 19, 2012 7:06 PM EST
in Events
Email
Print
I just went on a bit of a Twitter tear, provoked by the avalanche of falsified identity jokes that followed in the wake of the Fausto Carmona news. If you're living under a rock, Carmona's real name is apparently Roberto Hernandez-Heredia and he is actually 31, not 28. It doesn't take much to see how vitally important that downward shift in age was for his major league success—consider how he would've been viewed as a 25 year-old reliever in 2006, instead of as a 22 year-old reliever. There's a very real chance that he never would've even been considered for the rotation, which of course means he never would've earned his big contract, and a butterfly on a tree in the Amazon, etc. I'm sure someone will produce a nice piece of analysis on how this all informs Carmona's professional trajectory and I believe there's something interesting to be mined there.
That said, I don't want to touch on that. I want to simply point out what a shockingly cold bath this is for me, as it surfaces a lot of the strange feelings that come with having been lucky enough to be born on this continent, in this country, at this time in the world's history, to a certain kind of family. All of that simply adds up to privilege and access—the privilege to choose any sort of trajectory for myself, if I could show I could hack it, and access to a number of benefits that I never have cause to consider, like good food, healthcare, utilities, and the like.
Carmona, as was made evident when it was publicized that the Indians had financed dental work to help improve his nutrition, did not grow up in the kind of context. Here, in a blunt instrument sense, is the situation it seems Carmona faced: remain in 3rd-world poverty or falsify his identity, illegally, and give himself a much better chance of changing not only his own life but the lives of those around him. He chose the latter, and it worked out in spades. Did he make the smart choice? Did he make the ethical choice?
What does it mean that by dumping dollars into a sport, I support a system that forces young athlete after young athlete to such a decision point? What does it mean that 15 year olds in the Dominican Republic are forced to make a choice in a context that is more complicated, both morally and legally, than any situation I've faced in 27 years of life, and likely more complicated than any I'll ever face? Is reform of such a system even possible?
My conflicted feelings about this are made moreso by the fact that this isn't a minor leaguer I've never seen, or even a young player I haven't fully embraced. This is Fausto Carmona, a pitcher who's 'identity' I've already been forced to negate and reconcile once—Carmona never became a staff ace as expected, and I was forced to realign what that meant for my relationship to him. I was compelled to embrace a new version of Carmona, a less effective model that dashed so many high hopes, and now I find out that I was never embracing Carmona at all. The whole thing is unbelievably disorienting right now.
I don't know what it means and I don't know what the correct way to react is. Our world is, in many ways, a sad and unfair one. I'm not asking for a discussion on the politics of wealth redistribution or the industrialization of nations. I'm just saying, I don't feel proud of my tiny role in this system and I found it unsavory to see many people's reactions on Twitter consisted of one part pop culture reference, two parts poking fun at Carmona's career, and then set aside and hope for retweets. Good luck to Roberto Hernandez-Heredia and, to a greater extent, good luck to the kids growing up in the places where he grew up.
270 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Smart? Results say yes. Ethical? Of course not.
He climbed through the meritocracy based on his performance. At some point during that climb, he could have come clean. After 2007 perhaps, he could have said he was 3 years older. Would it have cost him $$, of course. The amount of money that would send him back into poverty? Not even. He was a proven MLB player and would have continued to be and continued to make a ton of money for anyone, not just a kid for DR.
He allowed the Indians to pay him millions of dollars under false pretenses. He risked arrest which affects him foremost but potentially also the organization.
The parameters for discussion are not just “poor kids gotta do it” and “liar, liar, shame!”. In between is someone who bends the truth to get an opportunity, makes the best of it—thus creating value to the people they deceived—but then gives those people back something in return: an honest account and the acceptance of less money due to their real age.
For me, in the end his livelihood was never at stake after a certain point. So the reason for the deception was gone. It was replaced by greed for the extra money his younger age afforded him. For that he deserves some scorn.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
But if he reveals the deception at any point, he gets arrested, and his livelihood is in jeopardy, no?
And liberty, in all likelihood.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure, not a lawyer.
Still some ethical middle ground for me where he could say “I lied to get out of poverty. I am no longer in poverty and will likely never return. I want to be honest now”. Maybe that involves losing his job, maybe he is punished legally. But he is taking an ethical path.
To avoid that path is to use the deception for material gain far beyond getting out of poverty. It is protecting his status as a millionaire. That I cannot condone, even if I condone the original deception.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 19, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think it goes a lot deeper than just the material gain. First, its not like he could go back to an adequately paying job. But also, I feel very confident that young Roberto grew up dreaming of playing in the majors. Taking the ethical stance is very likely to both jeopardize that and prevent him from being able to return to this country. The risk of taking the ‘right’ path was still very real and threatening.
First, its not like he could go back to an adequately paying job.
Of course he could. The 26-year-old admits that he’s really 26 after a Cy-worthy season. That guy is still going to make many millions, just not quite as many.
Frankly, I’m not sure it affects his pay at all. He’s still arbitration eligible, and arbitrators don’t consider age. All we did is buy out those years for a measly $15 million over four years.
I think part of the assumption is that if he revealed his false identity he stood a strong chance of being deported and barred from returning to the USA for a career-ending length of time. I’m not so sure he could have admitted to being older than he was without also bringing his actual identity into question.
First, its not like he could go back to an adequately paying job.
Also don’t believe this.
So how much does he need to make before the lie becomes about greed? 1M? 5M? 250K? At some point he can go live comfortably in the DR for the rest of his life. He is not owed a lifetime of comfort because he is good at baseball.
Yes, he might face arrest. He also might get off easy if he comes clean. But again, he has made hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. That is astronomical for a kid from DR and a lot for nearly everyone. He wanted more.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
What adequately paying job can he go back to then? We’re talking about someone who has probably spent half his life training for just one occupation. He’s all-in on this.
And I’m pointing out that, at this point, the lie isn’t about money. It’s about a guy who wants to continue doing what he dreamed of as a kid and worked hard to achieve, and being able to stay in this country. Whether he never made it out of the minors or he got a $100 million deal, there are other reasons to not want to disclose the truth. I don’t see why anyone should care at all what Carmona has made.
I agree that he did it to further a lucrative major league baseball career.
But that makes the lie about greed, not “an imperative” like the apologists here are saying.
Imagine you work in the fields like his father did, then you see his father living in a mansion. Would you tell your sons “he had to do it” as they walked out the door to their jobs? I sure wouldn’t. To say “it is an imperative” makes it sound like he had no choice.
At minimum he has a future in baseball instruction or scouting. At maximum he and his family never have to work again.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
You keep getting hung up on how much baseball players get paid, and seem to assume that the only reason to keep playing is greed. Simply put, I disagree and think the discussion has reached the point where we’re just going in circles.
This is a case where how much they get paid is actually important, in my opinion. If it weren’t, the relative depth of poverty wouldn’t matter either. If it doesn’t matter how rich he’s getting, it doesn’t matter how poor he started.
For instance, let’s say someone makes 30k per year. They’re well above the poverty level, but they aren’t exactly raking it in. Few here would agree that it’s ok for them to defraud the system, because they aren’t struggling to survive. Why is that different than the people saying Fausto is wrong for lying since he made millions of dollars instead of thousands?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 21, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
People are struggling pretty well at 30K in this country. Perhaps less so in the third world. Everything is relative.
I think people have not really looked at the right numbers in this situation. Even if Fauxberto thought he might get a look anyway, the signing bonus difference alone might have been an additional $40,000 — or more. This piece includes data showing that from 2003 to 2010, the median bonus at age 16 was $65,000, compared with only $10,000 for age 19. (Carmona signed in 2000, so you do have to roll back some bonus inflation.)
Lop off 30% — minimum — for the buscones, and just for argument’s sake, another 10% for the Carmona family. Now we’re looking at a $4,000 bonus compared with a $40,000 bonus.
Two things should be clear here. First, for a family in poverty, the difference between $4,000 and $40,000 is absolutely monumental. Second, for any amateur signing — but particularly for a 19-year-old in the Dominican — the first signing bonus very likely represents the biggest payment that person will ever receive as a pro ballplayer.
Given that context, does this still look like greed to anyone?
No, the signing bonus part is not greed. The contract that pays him millions is.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 22, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
None of that was my point either. I’m well aware that 30k here is much, much better than pretty much anyone in the Dominican. My point was that after some amount it becomes greed. My point was that if you want to say how much he has made is unimportant, you have to say the same thing about how poor he started, otherwise the logic is inconsistent.
If it doesn’t matter how rich he’s getting, it doesn’t matter how poor he started.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 22, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
So what specifically do you think he should have done, and at what point?
Was he supposed to retire instead of signing an extremely club-friendly contract?
He made maybe 200K in 2006 on a split contract.
He made the minimum in 2007, around 400K.
He was given a 460K contract for 2008.
He then accepted a four-year guaranteed deal in lieu of that. Had he not done that, everyone would have expected him to make even more money in arbitration.
One could argue that he made every effort to make as little money as possible without doing anything to arouse suspicion.
Shedding easily the deceptions in which humans become invested would wipe out 19th English literature. The Greeks, Romans and Shakespeare—cough, Christopher Marlowe, cough—would have been SOL too.
Antonetti’s choice of words seemed a bit odd, like he knew something was up.
"We were recently made aware of the situation that occurred today in the Dominican Republic and are currently in the process of gathering information," Indians General Manager Chris Antonetti said."
Really? Who would say they were recently made aware of something that happened just that day? But I think you’d speak that way it if you wanted to fudge a time-line.
According to an ESPN Outside the Lines report, the mother of real Fausto outed our Fausto on a highly-rated radio program in the Dominican several weeks back. Embassy and other officials were waiting for him when he came to renew his visa. Indians have a pretty large organization with tentacles all over the island. It would be a bit surprising if they didn’t get some advance word.
US Embassy personnel are notoriously out of touch with social news on the ground in foreign countries in which they are based. Usually they are the last to know. You have to hit them over the head with a sledgehammer to get them to notice anything. If they heard about this in their embassy bubble, it’s a pretty good bet it was more widely known.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Jan 22, 2012 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
19th century, that is. Charles Dickens would have had to find another occupation.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Jan 22, 2012 5:19 AM EST up reply actions
Well then don’t advocate for bigger contracts. Do something to lessen the affect on the team employing you. Really, do anything to represent that you care about how this deception affects others. Otherwise you are taking the lie of a poor kid and using it for way more material gain than I think is reasonable.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
“But he is taking an ethical path.”
Says who?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
From what I’ve read, I think Fausto/Roberto could be screwed. I believe there could be a good chance that this being the second incident ICE would start to feel strongly about denying him (and Nunez) a visa. They are a very image conscious department of the US government. They would not want to appear to condone this behaviors.
The other thing that is murky is that he was arrested in the DR. We have no idea what will happen or the penalties in DR. Him being arrested right outside the US consulate after filing for a visa STRONGLY suggests this is some sort of sting operation. There could be more targets. Even if this is a one off, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the DR government will be made an example of.
No charges related to using those fake documents to get that US visa, right? Just possession of them? Only the latter seems DR jurisdiction.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 19, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
None in the US so far. Although ICE typically will ban you from entering the US legally for 20 years if they discover you have previously been in the country illegally.
If I read it correctly, his charge in the DR is essentially identity theft.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ben Badler (BA guy) indicated on Twitter that it was a sting and he wouldn’t be surprised to see other big names.
by afh4 on Jan 19, 2012 7:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein suggested a frighteningly high number of guys probably have similar stories as Fausto
How involved is MLB in the immigration process?
by millionairesrow on Jan 19, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
The article Adam linked earlier suggested that they run a clearinghouse to validate birthdates and identities because they felt that individual teams were not being thorough.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
You really wonder how many guys are facing going to the consulate in the next few weeks, not knowing if they’ll end up in America or in jail. I mean, think about what that uncertainty is like.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
What does it mean that by dumping dollars into a sport, I support a system that forces young athlete after young athlete to such a decision point?
It means you support a system that gives a kid like him a chance to make a better life, by hook or by crook. Relax. You’re not a villain in this particular tale.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:26 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I think what is being ignored here is that this seems worse because he faked his identity and actually made it to the big leagues.
We have all had to make, at some point, a conscious decision to ignore the affects of aspiring to be a professional athlete in this country. One only needs to watch Hoop Dreams for an american example. The saddest part of the system is that even being above board, children at much younger ages than 16 or 18 make, or have been forced to make, the decision to be a pro athlete.
Hundreds routinely fail every year to ever get paid and essentially need to start their life over at 22 or whatever. They are just easier to ignore because they are americans.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There should be a secondary poll asking if he should pitch for the Tribe in 2012.
I voted yes on the “Will he” poll, but I’d say no to “Should he”?
They have the legal right to dump him and his $7 mil, no?
Why shouldn’t he? We still need a starter.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
Lots of speculation he will not be allowed to return to US. Also
Some thinking the Indiana might seize an opportunity to void, though not sure that makes sense.
by afh4 on Jan 19, 2012 7:45 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I really wonder about the visa issue. I would like to have voted “Yes” above, but didn’t because of visa concerns. Fausto reporting on time for spring training seems out of the question, I think being on the opening day roster is in serious doubt. The longer the delay, the less reason the Indians have to keep him anyway.
I put this in the other thread, but my wife is an immigration lawyer. She basically said that in most cases (ie normal folks) it would take a literal act of congress to get a waiver if the US discovers you have been in the country under false identity.
Also ICE works slooowly. Leo Nunez/Oviedo still has not been issued a visa and one presumes he probably applied shortly after being caught last september
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not getting back in the country anytime soon. The Tribe might as well start working on voiding his contract because he’s not getting back in the country to fulfill it. Any questions of “should he pitch” are mute because he won’t be able to.
I just want to believe.
I don’t see a void, nor do I see a reason why we should. This isn’t a massive moral dilemma for the Indians.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
It is a massive financial dilemma for the Indians. Would they extend a 31 year old with a $7M extension after putting up the numbers he did last year as a 30 year old, rather than a 27 year old into his age 28 season? Possibly. But that decision suddenly becomes significantly higher risk.
It’s one year. That’s nothing for a 31 year old.
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
It’s something for a 31 year old featuring an 81 ERA+, 1.48 WHIP, and 1.36 K/BB the past 4 years. Jason Marquis just signed a 1 year, $3M deal featuring a 98 ERA+, 1.46 WHIP, 1.44 K/BB the past 4 years, Freddy Garcia 1 year, $4M (106, 1.33, 2.17), Paul Maholm 1 year, $4.75M (96, 1.40, 1.94). Would Carmona have received $7M on the open market? Probably not. Cleveland can’t afford to overpay for a mediocre pitcher without upside. Adding 3 years to his age significantly reduces his upside.
Being 1 year mitigates the risk significantly, but his salary will still make up nearly 10% of the team’s payroll.
His upside is 2007 or even 2010. He has a career ERA+ of 92, with the chance to be brilliant. Even the second half of last year he was at least average. The FO thought we needed him when he was 28 with those last four years, why would they change that now?
Formerly fwembt, now co-moderator of Banners on the Parkway
First, I love Fausto Carmona. I loved him as a prospect when he was the organization’s pitcher of the year in 2003, going 17-4 with a 2.06 ERA for Lake County (part of an amazing Captains team that went 97-43). I was at Tigers Stadium on April 15, 2006, when he made his major league debut, pitching an impressive six innings of one-run ball while hitting the upper 90s on the stadium’s radar gun. I followed every start he made in 2007, including the April 24th game he went head to head and out-dueled Johan Santana and the May 17th game when he did it again in even finer fashion. Fausto was the unflappable starting pitcher in the greatest game the Indians have played in my lifetime, prompting me to go back and decide that his performance was one of the handful of greatest postseason pitching performances in Tribe history (something I can’t seem to find i the archives right now). I own a custom Indians jersey that just says “FAUSTO” on the back. Seriously…I do.
I feel much the same as Andrew. The simple, or not so simple, fact is that our lives are massively directed by the chance of our birth…where we are born, at what time, to what circumstances. The Dominican Republic is more than 100 notches below the United States in global rankings of per capita GDP. For someone like Fausto, coming from rural D.R., the decision to falsify his identity in order to solicit interest from baseball scouts is not criminal so much as it is an imperative. It is a crime, to be sure, but a crime I would not would not trust myself to avoid placed in that situation. It should be pointed out that it also probably was not even Fausto’s decision to make entirely, given the influence of family, friends and baseball “professionals” on a teenager.
by APV on Jan 19, 2012 7:40 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
First time I have posted on this blog. APV your point is so prudent.
The ethical dilema is one that is simple, he lied (was unethical) to improve the lives of himself and those close to him (ethical-ish). Depending on your stance of ethics and if you believe in a idealistic or a more pragmatic aproach. I tend to believe that people do what is best for them and are highly influenced from the culture around them. Fausto, whom I have become a fan of, to me was just following that logic, he was doing what was best for him and the his immidate surrondings and that is exactly what most of us would do. I would certainly.
If you have ever read guns, germs, and steal by Jared Diamond you would see just how much geography influences our culture, wealth, history, and decisions. I think it is sad to blame Fausto for doing something a mojority of us would do if we were in his place.
I hope that we can keep Fausto Carmona or AKA Roberto Hernandez-Heredia, I guess I should have done that the other way around. Go tribe!
I reject the underlying assumption that lying is necessarily unethical.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jan 19, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
No, honey, that dress does NOT make your butt look fat.
by woodsmeister on Jan 20, 2012 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
that isn't a lie though
her fat butt makes her butt look fat.
by wilsonm24 on Jan 20, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Way to elevate the discourse.
Way to break up the tension with a genuinely hilarious comment.
Nice subject line.
by Jay on Jan 20, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The problem with this reasoning is you can apply it to any number of crimes. You could use this justification to explain away robbing a liquor store.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 19, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
But not all crimes are victimless. Who is the victim in this one? The Indians’ organization…I don’t think so. 2007 by itself makes the Tribe’s investment in Carmona worthwhile.
I disagree that the Indians would definitely have made the same investments in Carmona had they known his real age.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 20, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Devil’s advocate says that the victim is the minor-leaguer with the proper visa, or more generically, the guy who is who he is (!), who didn’t get the roster spot or the chance to make more than his minor league salary. Same argument that’s been used for the steroid users, who got that leg-up on the guys who were “doing it right”.
You are reading my signature.
They sign a TON of kids down there, though. He’s been lighting it up since Dominican League (age 20/17). It’s highly unlikely that “other kid” would have made the majors and not all that likely he even gets to the U.S.
This success is more reason why the lie is not really justified to the extreme APV wants it to be.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. Adam, both you and Andrew nailed it. My only minor is with the part in Andrew’s post about people in the U.S. being able to choose their trajectory based on their abilities. As I’m sure I made clear in the Shapiro thread, there are inequalities in the opportunity to be upwardly mobile in the U.S. But, putting that aside, I think Adam’s well-selected link shows that mobility is even worse when seen in a global context.
Part of the appeal to sports, I think, is that it’s much more of a meritocratic system. We have lots of ways to measure performance, and the rules are clearly defined — very different circumstances from the rest of life. As someone else mentioned here, Hoop Dreams (and all the other examples we can think of) shows how disadvantaged kids everywhere seem to pin there hopes for upward mobility on sports, and I think there’s a reason for that, even if it’s not always objectively the smartest (and certainly not the likeliest) route out of poverty.
I know Jay and others have argued persuasively that it’s difficult to broadly condemn PED users. (Appropriately, as I write this there’s a story on Raffy B inking a new deal with the Rockies linked on the right.) I think that’s even more true in the case of Fausto lying about his age. He lied to secure more money up front and get the chance to make more later. He had to stay committed to that lie or else he’d risk losing it all.
Would it have been ideal that he come clean after the 2007 or whenever? Yes. But I’m sure he worried about the same legal issues that he’s facing now. What he did may not be admirable, but it’s understandable. And it’s also very, very different from robbing someone at gunpoint. Yes, he technically defrauded the Indians. But it’s difficult to pin down how much — if at all — he harmed the organization or fans. Was he not worth the money we gave him? Would the Indians not picked up his contract this year knowing he’s 31? I’ll leave it to other to answer. The only think I’m fairly certain of is that lying gave him more of a chance to make it out of poverty, and he felt like it was worth the risk. I think anyone who says for sure they wouldn’t have done the same in his circumstances should at least think twice.
Would the Indians not picked up his contract this year knowing he’s 31?
I don’t think his contract would have been long enough for this to matter had they known his real age.
I would also like to add another position here. I would almost definitely have done the same thing he did, but I wouldn’t think it was ethical in any way. Many people do things they know are morally wrong for personal gain.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 20, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
All his contract did was extend his guaranteed years from end of 2008 to end of 2011, and this was signed in April of 2008. It was not a big-long extension, it was a medium-small arbitration lock-in deal.
Again, the 2009-2011 salaries were in large part a function of what we’d have expected to pay in arbitration, where age is not among the considered factors, and all we paid for those three seasons was $14.5 million total.
the decision to falsify his identity in order to solicit interest from baseball scouts is not criminal so much as it is an imperative.
Please APV. This is not akin to lying to get a factory job to feed a starving family. He lied to get access to millions of dollars playing a kids game. And once he cashed it, he kept the lie going. After a point it was greed, pure and simple.
Say he was signed for $7,500 as a 20 year old. He had mad skills, as your highlights of his performances attest. It is very likely he would have progressed and still made millions. Baseball is a meritocracy that will put a lot of things to the side if one performs: age, personal problems, etc..
To imply he would not have gotten a look if 3 years older does not resonate with me.
Most of all, to say that poor kids have an imperative to lie to get into professional sports is an insult to poor people everywhere that have to really work for a living.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Did he have access to a factory job?
Even if he did, would a factory job permanently remove his family (and perhaps also the real Carmona family) out of poverty?
To imply he would not have gotten a look if 3 years older does not resonate with me.
Then you are ill informed on the subject.
I will certainly admit I am no expert on these types of signings. You said yourself “He’s been lighting it up since Dominican League (age 20/17)”. That alone is not worth a look? This is a league that signs a lot of guys over 20 years old every year based on their abilities. To imply that he had no shot with his stuff due to his age does not ring true to me.
But you are correct, I am not the best informed.
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Jan 20, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Even if he did, would a factory job permanently remove his family (and perhaps also the real Carmona family) out of poverty?
Maybe not, but this goes back to what I said elsewhere. I don’t blame him for making his choice. I would have done the same thing. I also think it’s morally wrong and all about greed.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 20, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
The alleviation of human suffering may involve the acquisition of money, but that doesn’t make it greed. Greed is the accumulation of capital for its own sake.
by Jay on Jan 21, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
thiiiiiiiiiiiiis
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 21, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll amend my statement to say it isn’t solely about greed, or at least it wasn’t. But to argue that this was simply the alleviation of human suffering is disingenuous. He’s years past having to worry about that.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 21, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
If this had happened a few years ago this might be different, but we are past this lie being about getting the Heredia family out of poverty. If that’s the argument you want to make, would it be alright for me to make the same type of lie to get a few million dollars even though I already live above the poverty line? Because that’s what actually happened here.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 21, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
When he signed his extension that payed him millions that’s exactly what happened. I’m 100% ok with him lying to get that extra signing bonus, but continuing that lie to make more money than most of us will see in a lifetime isn’t ethical.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 22, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
What I mean is, he had already made enough to lift his family out of poverty in the Dominican. His choices were to admit the lie and possibly not make any more money, but still be ok financially, or to keep lying and make what most of us would consider enough to retire on. He chose to lie in order to make more money than he needed. How is that not greed?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 22, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
It can’t be characterized as greed for the primary reason that you do not inhabit Fausto/Roberto’s head. Other things none of us know: How much does the real Carmona family get? Does our ex-pitcher buy uniforms for every kid on the island? Is he privately funding a Dominican space mission? Has he leveraged his future income in order to purchase a farm that will employ a hundred of his poor neighbors?
Once he reveals the truth, there is a good chance his career in the U.S. Is over. To come clean about the lie that started him off eleven years ago may be ethical, in an abstract way, but it would also be pointless. Except, for some reason, to you.
by YoDaddyWags on Jan 22, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think at some point, his acquisition of money may have stopped being about the alleviation of human suffering, but I do agree. I have no problem for him doing what he did to make money for the most part.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
A factory job in the DR wouldn’t remove a family from poverty. A factory job here might (if the family was back home in the DR and he sent them $), but he would need to commit fraud most likely to get that job too.
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
This is not akin to lying to get a factory job to feed a starving family
Correct, it’s more like lying on your resume to get that job interview, which none of us would EVER do,
by Aussie Wahoo on Jan 21, 2012 4:49 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
“Moderate drinker”
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 23, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
As another angle on the story, go back to the links in my prospect overview this morning and check out how many of the Indians top prospects come from the D.R. and Venezuela
Eh, feels circumstantial. It was a very “American” system a year ago I’d guess: Chisenhall, Kipnis, Hagadone, Wolters, Washington, McAllister, Barnes.
by afh4 on Jan 19, 2012 7:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
my point is that I honestly assume almost every MLB team’s top prospects skew heavily to Dominicans and Venezuelans.
by NatiTribeFan on Jan 19, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
How much of the ill feelings are fueled by the pithy commentary in the Twitterverse? While it has it positive aspects, Twitter relies on more of the base emotional reactions that can drown out the nuance needed to understand the choices a person made.
(Not meant as a criticism of Twitter alone – as I think it is just one example of the way public information and discourse is handled in the cyber world).
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Jan 19, 2012 7:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Someone wrote the other day (on Deadspin, maybe?) that Twitter seems to have eliminated the impulse to assume that nearly all people, public figures and otherwise, are human beings trying to get by, trying to do a decent job at something. Instead, every action is an invitation to be ridiculed.
I think that’s true to a large extent, and I think it’s lousy.
by afh4 on Jan 19, 2012 7:51 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
I have a hard time feeling bad about this.
As a person: Fausto—still his name to me—made a seriously unethical choice to escape crippling poverty. He escaped crippling poverty and became very wealthy, bettering his life and his family’s. He has now been caught and will suffer the consequences. I won’t sit in judgment on him either way. It seems like some facsimile of justice has been served across the board.
As an Indians fan: we got snookered, but his talent was/is real. We overpaid, but I don’t exactly have buyers remorse. 2007 was worth a lot of busted contracts. The fact that he is three years older than I thought he was doesn’t change my expectations for him this year, which were approximately: ??!?!?
As a baseball fan/citizen: This is life in the world’s richest country. Large moral and political issues are involved here on which I will not comment. But absent the settlement of those issues, there are no practical alternatives. No doubt many reforms can and should be made by MLB. But my demand for baseball is not equivalent to my (hypothetical) demand for narcotics. Mexico is burning right now in no small part because Americans love getting high, often in self-destructive ways. Obviously, again, many issues involved there that would break the ground rules. But that seems like the kind of thing that is potentially worth thinking about before lighting a joint. The perverse incentives that stem from my enjoyment of high quality baseball seem orders of magnitudes lower.
Is this the final push toward a worldwide draft??? This sucks on so many levels. Kind of like the day VMart got traded.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
What. The. Hell.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 9:27 PM EST reply actions
I read it, tried to comment on it, and then it went down. Hmm.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Does anyone by chance have a downloadable copy of Game 2 ALDS 2007?
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 9:51 PM EST reply actions
iTunes has it for a buck ninety-nine. I’ve watched it repeatedly.
by PBH on Jan 19, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the heads up. Bought.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
It is weird now, when they are chanting his name leading up the A-Rod strikeout, what must that have really felt like? Finally, your name is being chanted by 40k+ and it isn’t the name you were probably imagining as a teenager.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Same.
My watch is broken... it's stuck on Tribe Time
#suckitLaw
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 20, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Are you sure it’s still up there? I just looked at the spot where I thought it’d be (MLB’s “Baseball’s Best”, television episodes), and I don’t see it.
Frustrating…
This is like that time last year in some game thread when I typed “I love you Jason Donald” in all caps after he hit a double off the wall or something … except it was Hannahan.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, SOPA will put me in jail if I share it with you…
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
The weirdest thing is that he must have entered the U.S. within a matter of a months after 9-11. That’s when immigrant security was supposed to be at its absolute tightest.
They must have just thought he had a really cool name and thought nothing of it … I guess?
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
(1) I think what’s so jarring — the ‘cold bath’ Andrew aptly references — is that this is one of those rare moments that humanizes MLB. Fausto has always shown flashes of humanity, be it the exuberance at his bouts of success or is obvious frustration at his prologued struggle. But these events put his emotion in a different perspective. I can’t imagine the anxiety and uncertainty he felt, aware both of how far he’d come, and it could all escape him. I loved because he took the game personally, but maybe I didn’t realize how personally.
(2) Ethically, I take no issue at all. I don’t know if I’m unique in this respect — I don’t, for instance, take issue in Biggie’s having sold drugs to try to escape poverty in Brooklyn. Like Andrew, I was never faced with these decisions – but ultimately, I’m of the mind that this is one opportunity to live on this planet, his crime was relatively victimless, and the results literally life-changing. Bastian’s article notes that Fausto was signed at either 19 or 20. I’m not sure about the practice with regard to signing Latin players, but that strikes me on the older side of the spectrum. The fact is, Fausto may not have been signed at all, but for becoming Fausto. And the fact his, ultimately, he proved he deserved a shot. Perhaps a result of his improved nutrition, he was on of the very best at his craft, 6 years after reaching the states.
(3) Fausto Carmona is a fantastic nom de baseball.
by supersizeme on Jan 19, 2012 10:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This, unlike dealing crack to your neighbors, is not a zero-sum or net-negative move. It helps him and only him. It doesn’t destroy a neighborhood.
Purely based on sales, there is a 90% chance that you own at least two NIckelback albums.
Well, it does affect others to some degree. It certainly disadvantages other prospects who have not lied about their age. But yes, agreed, as far as victimless crimes go, I think identity fraud is significantly closer than flipping weight.
by supersizeme on Jan 19, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Well, an individual decision to sell drugs doesn’t destroy a neighborhood either. It’s the system that only allows for such economic opportunities that destroys the neighborhood.
/off topic over.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Hate to break it to you, but there is no “system.”
by emd2k3 on Jan 20, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what? The drugs help.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 21, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
drugs are a hell of a drug
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
by bross09 on Jan 24, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Andrew – Mentioned this on Twitter, but great job putting all this into words so clear and heartfelt. One of the reasons this is a great site is because you sort of fall into the roll of the conscience of the Tribe fan from time to time, and do a great job at it. Really a bummer of a story, just bizarre and darkly humorous (at least for me; I’m a public defender and can only deal with so much of what I see through dark humor) and sad all at the same time.
Il faut d'abord durer.
An aspect of this that I don’t understand (given what has been written) is how one can change their identity and still maintain relations with family, friends, etc. and not give themselves away. Are the stories about him when he was first signed, or the house he built for his parents, just anecdotal? Wouldn’t his whole family have to assume new identities or do they just purport to be foster parents or something?
I’m guessing no one bothered to look into it.
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 19, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
wonder if fausto’s series of one-year contracts reflects some suspicion/knowledge by the front office of this possibility.
Maybe there just wasn’t a lot of pushback from his side of the table, knowing his own situation and not wanting to draw more attention than necessary.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
So if the front office knew about this issue and didn’t report him to the authorities…are they culpable of any crime?
by supermarioelia on Jan 20, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Still my favorite moment as a Tribe fan, when he struck out A-Rod with his last pitch in the best game I’ve ever seen
by tr1betime on Jan 19, 2012 11:08 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Best part of the Castrovince story is the tidbit that the Indians keep a shot of Carmona’s head covered in bugs in the Player Development Complex at Goodyear.
by APV on Jan 20, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right next to the mission statement, right?
by Jay on Jan 20, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To pile on the Fausto love, watch some Sheffield-punchin’.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
This video encapsulates so much of why I loved the Indians in the ‘00s. Tigers shmuck starting a fight, Indians hero ending it, Victor going crazy standing up for his team, Raffy Perez revealing that his jersey is approximately 14 sizes too large for him, a Fasano sighting. If Hamilton mentioned LGT in there somehow, it’d have just about everything.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Voiding his contract is the last thing on my mind right now, least of all for baseball reasons. He is an Indian. Let’s get him out of jail first and worry about the baseball stuff second.
Let’s say there are 20-30 guys in this predicament in the majors and upper levels of the minors. MLB has a huge issue on it’s hands. Do they send them all back home never to be seen again? What if one of them is Pujols? Surely the only way out is for a short amnesty for players to come forward to start on a clean slate and a zero tolerance policy for the future. Not sure how this all works with your government, but it did take you guys 2 years to sort my green card out, and we’re staunch US allies!!!!!
Pujols has enough friends in a certain political party by this point that I’ll think he’ll manage to escape any issue.
by supermarioelia on Jan 20, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
But if that’s not his real identity is he still a citizen?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Jan 20, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
If he procured his citizenship via fraud or other misrepresentations, he can be prosecuted and/or deported.
Yes. The government can’t deport a citizen. But it can determine that an immigrant has obtained citizenship unlawfully and can then use either the criminal and/or civil/administrative processes to have that citizenship revoked and deport the person.
For an immigrant to become a naturalized citizen, the immigrant must apply and most provide full disclosure, swearing to the truth of his disclosures.
Cleveland actually has two extraordinarily famous cases of this: (1) John Demjanuk, who was accused of failing to disclose his ties to the the Nazis, and (2) Fawaz Damrah, who was accused of failing to disclose his ties to Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
The point is, an immigrant can’t lie about his identity, his criminal past, and his ties to despotic regimes or terrorism groups.
that’s not a very good Larry Dolan/Despotic Regime joke
by APV on Jan 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Under what circumstances, if you don’t mind me asking?
If you do mind or don’t want to talk about it here, obviously just ignore me.
Il faut d'abord durer.
According to the first chapter of The Godfather, it did have that much power in the post WW II era. The favor that baker seeks from Don Corleone at the wedding is a way his daughter is a way that a young Italian POW (pressed into service in his bakery for some reason) can be protected from deportation now that the war is over. The baker’s daughter has fallen in love with the POW and the baker seeks a way for them to stay together. The Don offers that a special piece of legislation can be offered by one of the Congressmen under his control to grant him preferred immigration status.
I don’t doubt that Congress can still pass such laws. I just hope that they don’t take the time to do it.
by Harry Doyle on Jan 20, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
They want to give illegals amnesty, why can’t they give baseball players amnesty? At least the ballplayers contributed something great.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 3:22 AM EST up reply actions
yes because illegal immigrants have never done anything of worth
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Here’s a link to an NPR piece about Dominican baseball and they document fraud and steroid use that is ubiquitous. It is exactly 8 minutes long.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125580034
I think this is a good overview what young Domincans have to go through to make it to the big leagues. They even interview a trainer/agent who refers to Fausto’s type of fraud as “the good lie” because it has raised his family out of poverty. Ethical arguments aside, I think this shows how getting into a major league organization by any means necessary is entrenched in the culture.
ironic that he chose Fausto as his fake name given this
by hyphens on Jan 20, 2012 11:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Roberto is actually very intellectual and was expressing his inner angst regarding his decision.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
At the idea of this being victimless, is lying about ones age different from taking steroids? Isn’t the entire idea the unfair advantage provided?
It doesn’t really make him better, it just makes him seem potentially better in the future.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Makes him better compared to the competition, considering he’s judged against other players his age.
How does lying about his age impact his performance? It impacts the type of prospect he is, but nothing about being 3 years younger inherently makes him a better player.
Il faut d'abord durer.
He’s not competing in an age-less vacuum. His performance is better relative to his peers when he is a more developed 20 year old amongst 17 year olds.
Excellent.
I don’t want to taint your words by adding anything else.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions
Bravo.
Ok, that is all.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 20, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
This situation makes me more interested in paying for a half season of Rich Harden (I assume he’d either break down or we would trade him by mid-season)
oh im not new!
i used to comment a couple of seasons ago, i just havent been very active lately but looking forward to doing just that this season!, also i posted that by mistake thats why i replied to my own post haha
Carmona has been released from jail and asks forgiveness. (via ESPN)
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
by USSChoo on Jan 20, 2012 4:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Lots of good info here about how it came out. Part of it was the mother of the actual Fausto Carmona.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
This has got to make it way more serious of a crime, no? I’d think based on this he’s not coming back to America at an age where people will pay him to play baseball.
To avoid confusion, it’s in the video that this is covered, not in the text.
The story raises more questions. If he was outed on a highly rated radio show, why didn’t the news make it to American media at that point? And why didn’t Fauxberto realize that he couldn’t just waltz in and renew his visa?
And now the Carmona family gets zip.
I’m glad you pointed that out; usually when I go on an ESPN page and a video starts playing, I mute it, pause it or close the window. This one is informative; you guys need to check it out.
The DNA-testing bit was interesting. I’m not sure exactly how that would work for the Indians as they need some kind of baseline identity to start with. I’m guessing they must cross-check the signee’s DNA with another member of his family, thereby necessitating that there is a kind of double-confirmation of their identity.
I think Fausto/Roberto is screwed. I don’t think we see him in Cleveland this year at all.
But they probably already got over a million up to this point. Does seem very poor financial management though. Maybe the mama just thought she was showing she could make good on her threat but was so stupid she didn’t realize she was actually outing him?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jan 22, 2012 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
To those amateur ethicists among us, as well as those decrying the ragged state of the third world, it should be pointed out that the United States has had an overwhelming influence in Dominican affairs, beginning over a century ago, when the U.S. government essentially took over the country to secure the debt accrued by the long-time caudillo in power, Ulises Heureaux, to the San Domingo Improvement Company, which despite its name was run by New York power broker Smith Weed, and included among its investors a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State and a former Ambassador, among other well-connected people. Little more than a Ponzi outfit, they peddled bonds to guileless European investors until they couldn’t pay the interest, after which they printed money, which ruined the Dominican economy (and got Heureaux assassinated). SDIC was booted out of the country, but its D.C. allies took up their cause, forcing a reparation settlement ; ultimately the U.S. government took over the entire Dominican economy in 1904.
Teddy Roosevelt had no stomach for occupation, but the U.S. did indeed send in the Marines, and during an eight-year occupation, from 1916-24, they passed a crucial law that abrogated the terrenos comuneros, the collective land holdings of the numerous peasants, because they had no official title to the property, enabling elites and sugar companies, including the U.S. owned South Porto Rico Sugar Company, to amass huge swaths of arable property. Declining sugar prices after WWI enabled South Porto Rico to expand its holdings.
The U.S. also found in long-time dictator Rafael Trujillo a staunch ally against communism. Trujillo, rather than distribute his nation’s wealth, much preferred to keep it to himself; by the time he was assassinated in 1961, he and his family owned more than half of the country’s manufacturing base, and built himself a number of sugar mills as well; he also, in his quest to rid the Dominican of its Haitian cane-cutters and get his own people to do the job, organized the massacre in 1937 of every Haitian his troops found outside the (very much slave-quarter-like) labor camps, with a toll of 5,000-37,000—noone knows for sure.
That cane-cutters are frequently virtual slaves has been documented for decades; see Alec Wilkinson’s Big Sugar, from 1989, for an examination of the lives of cane workers in Florida. Big-time New York socialites and political money-lenders, the Fanjul brothers, whose family got booted from Cuba in 1959 but who reconstructed their sugar empire in Florida, bought out the Dominican sugar holdings of Gulf + Western (who had swallowed South Porto Rico earlier), in 1985—more than 250,000 acres of arable land; the Fanjuls have been in the cross-hairs of reformers but retain their power.
The Dominican Republic bumbles along in the middle of what Teddy Roosevelt hoped would be, and has indeed become, “an American Lake,” and one of its citizenry has decided that a little bit of disingenuousness would be beneficial to himself and his family. Good luck and don’t get caught, I guess.
I voted that we would see Fausto Hernandez Heredia pitch this year, but the legal commentary above, coupled with the alacrity with which Andretti aquired Kevin Slowey, makes me think I was very much mistaken.
by YoDaddyWags on Jan 20, 2012 10:45 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Right. Too stupid, on my part. Well, it seemed that Antonelli acquired Slowey with the speed of a racer, though his testimony contradicts that notion.
Sigh. Well, his mother knows what his name is, and that’s really all that matters.
by YoDaddyWags on Jan 23, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well now I look like the fool. Should have researched the naming conventions.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
If he pitches as Roberto Hernandez, is he eligible for ROY?
I teach good life choices. That's why I almost didn't graduate high school.
Follow @BRoss2013
These type of posts are what keep me visiting LGT regularly, even when I’m busy. Aside from Pluto at his peak (which, I think, was a long, long time ago — and probably better in memory than it was in reality) and Castro a few years ago, the things that you four write about the team are the best combination of serious analysis and the emotional attachment of a real fan I’ve ever read. Thanks for taking all the time to keep this site going.
by J83 on Jan 22, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For years many of us have been longing for the old Fausto to return. It turns out he doesn’t even play baseball. I will miss watching Roberto play if he never makes it back to the states. Even with all that frustrating “why can’t you be that other guy” stuff that seemed to infuse his every start since 2008, still liked him.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
Perhaps the perplexing Good Fausto/Bad Fausto dichotomy derived from his hidden Hernandez Heredia/Carmona split.
I’ve always thought that Carmona has never really been healthy since that amazing 2007 ALDS. But it is also probably true that his profile within the D.R. skyrocketed after that series…which would have made life considerably more difficult given his dubious situation.
This is a really good point I hadn’t thought of. Obviously he’s back in the DR this offseason; did he go there every year? How many people “knew” about this? Doesn’t the Indians have a lot (relatively) of infrastructure there? And if so, how effective is it if they didn’t know about this (I’m of the mind that they either knew, or suspected and didn’t much care)? If it was somewhat well known but took this long to come out, is this sort of thing even more prevalent than so many of us assume and half-joke about?
Il faut d'abord durer.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
- Snoop Dogg delivers memorable first pitch at U.S. Cellular Field
