Last two spots on the bench
This will be the last pre-spring training roster battle poll, and also the most complex. The Indians starting lineup looks fairly set going into spring training, with third base a possible exception. Assuming Jason Donald is the primary utility player (and his flexibility suggests he should be), there are two sets of possibilities for the final two roster spots. The first set assumes that Hannahan is the opening day starter at 3B and Chisenhall starts in Columbus. If this is the case, the final two spots are a 4-way battle for two 4th OFer/RH-bat/1B spots between Cunningham (out of options), Duncan (out of options), LaPorta and Canzler. The second set of possibilities involves Chisenhall getting the start at 3B and Hannahan occupying a backup 1B/3B position on the roster. In this second scenario, there is only one free roster spot and it has to go to someone who can play the OF. Which option do you prefer heading into spring training?
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There are actually a huge number of iterations that could come from these spots that I did not give options for in the poll. In addition to the above options, Phelps and Thomas Neal are already on the 40-man roster and potentially in the mix (Phelps would seem to be Donald’s backup, and Neal another RH-outfield bat). In addition, the following NRI players are in camp; Andy LaRoche, Jose Lopez, Fred Lewis, Felix Pie and Ryan Spilborghs…plus a few others.
Also a reminder that the guys out of options include; Hannahan, Duncan, Cunningham and Kotchman. The opt-out dates for some of the NRIs are:
Fred Lewis (June 1)
Andy LaRoche (June 1)
Gregorio Petit (June 30)
Not sure about the others….
It would be an interesting side question as to which of Duncan or Cunningham would be more likely to get through waivers and still be available if they did go with Lonnie at 3B and Hannahan on the bench.
by The DiaTriber on Feb 20, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Building on APV’s point immediately above, I voted Cunningham/Duncan (with Chisenhall at AAA).
I can’t even recall the last time the Indians didn’t put an “out of options” player on the 25 man when he was more or less even with a competing player who “did” have an option left.
I also think the somewhat “even” ballyhooed battle between Hannahan and Chisenhall is way overblown and there’s no way they won’t start borderline Gold Glove candidate Hannahan at 3B with this ground ball staff (with Chisenhall showing flashes but certainly no urgent need to start him there now). They need all the help they can get with this staff who either regressed big time in the 2nd half last year (Tomlin), making the switch from little boy league to big boy league (Lowe, and to an extent still… Jimenez). And that’s before we even get to whomever the 5th starter is.
Is he a “borderline candidate” because of playing time or because the voters are stupid?
by Brick. on Feb 19, 2012 9:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
One other thing to point out is the inevitable spring training injury (be it Jason Donald, Jamey Carroll the one year, think I’m forgetting another one) usually helps to sort this stuff out.
Who’s in charge of maintaining the Regular Setback Schedule?
by woodsmeister on Feb 20, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
This is a tough one, as I’m torn between Hannahan/Duncan with Chiz at 3B, and Duncan/Cunningham with Chiz in AAA. I’d love to see Chiz as the opening day 3B, because I think it’s worth the upside. But I’m curious about what Cunningham can do as a RHB off the bench, and I’d be a little disappointed if we lost him on waivers after trying to send him down, when we lost Judy to get him.
In the end, I went with Hannahan/Duncan with Chiz at 3B. Let’s not forget that Hannahan had arguably his best offensive year last year (2007 was a higher OPS+, but it was only in 144 ABs, vs. 320 last year). Chiz may not be a Gold Glove 3B, but I don’t think he’s a bad 3B (at least he’s not Miggy-bad), and I expect him to be a much better hitter than Hannahan. Considering our need for offense, I think I’d rather have Chiz and Hannahan than Hannahan and Cunningham.
I voted Duncan/Canzler with Chisenhall starting at Columbus, but in truth I’m hoping for a Jose Lopez revival that would make him Hannahan’s platoon partner at 3b (replacing Canzler). I know that is not a perfect platoon, given Hannahan’s splits, but I like this bench (so long as Brantley, Sizemore, and Choo are all healthy).
by ken from alexandria on Feb 19, 2012 1:19 PM EST reply actions
My big complaint with that approach is our only OF depth on the roster is then Duncan and Donald…neither of whom can play CF
I guess my other issue is that the Indians 40-man roster is currently pretty full in the infield. Asdrubal, Chisenhall, Kipnis, Donald, Kotchman, Hannahan and Phelps seem to be guaranteed spots. I doubt the team would DFA Juan Diaz after giving him a spot prior to the Rule 5 draft. That only leaves LaPorta and Canzler as replaceable infielders. And all of this with only two catchers on the 40-man roster. I suppose the addition of an infielder would come at the expense of an OFer on the roster, though, where there is more wiggle room.
Sounds like an argument for Duncan/Cunningham.
by ken from alexandria on Feb 19, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
so long as Brantley, Sizemore, and Choo are all healthy
I nominate this for new site title.
by gte619n on Feb 20, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I voted other, but I missed the one I wanted to vote for, Cunningham/Duncan, because I was looking for Duncan/Cunningham. Oops.
Here is the Bastian piece on Garland, which doesn’t really provide any information except that the Indians don’t expect any updates on Garland’s status till later this week.
Flip it for me – I want to see Chiz impress and clearly “win” the starting 3B spot.
I wish there was an option for “No doubt, clear-cut winner to claim the spot” – but I’ve been looking for that option for many years.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Feb 19, 2012 7:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jay, any service time games to be played with any of our young bucks?
by Brick. on Feb 19, 2012 9:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Chisenhall is really the only young buck in the mix, and they’d have to keep him in the minors clear through August in order to set his clock back. He’s more or less right where they want him at this point.
Given the narrow window — and I am a believer in that concept for the moment — I can’t see them not going with their best players at every point this season.
I do think there’s a good chance they’ll keep LaPorta from getting 86 days in the majors this season, which he’d need in order to reach arbitration. But even in his case, if they think the roster’s better with him at any point, especially as an everyday player, I don’t think they’ll hesitate.
Thanks for the legwork. Interesting about LaPorta.
by Brick. on Feb 20, 2012 3:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You’re welcome.
Keep in mind, the new CBA moved the bar a bit, and nobody knows exactly how far. It’s now 22% of Super Two players who reach arbitration rather than 17%. The cutoff generally was between 126 and 140 days, so clubs could set 125 days with some confidence and 120 if they wanted to play it safe.
Five percent of the season is about nine days, but my guess is that on top of the nine days, teams will be even more conservative than usual this first year under the new math. So I’m figuring 110 with confidence and 105 to play it safe.
That means, rather than a June 5-ish first-time callup for top prospects who are killing it — 122 days in June-September minus five is 117 — we’re probably looking at more like June 20-25.
Of course, that cutoff doesn’t matter for LaPorta, because there’s the secondary requirement of spending 86+ days in the majors during the current season. If he reaches that, he’ll be way over the 22% mark.
If by “keep it in mind”, you mean “put it in your mind in the first place”, will do. I didn’t know this till you just laid it out nice and pretty like that. Very interesting, so it really probably puts prospect clammor off a full month. Wondering if this causes less teams to wait.
by Brick. on Feb 20, 2012 10:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I always really appreciate this content. Because getting your cliff’s notes saves a crap load of reading and research, nevermind comprehension.
by Brick. on Feb 21, 2012 12:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
this
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
The fact that we’re even having this discussion with Hannahan is pretty amazing. When he broke camp with the team opening day 2011, I’d bet no one expected him to be the starting 3rd baseman opening day 2012. He deserves this.
Yes Canzler represents something the populous hasn’t seen before, which is presumed to be better than what was seen and determined as lacking. It’s mostly subjective emotional vile against Laporta (though objectively, this would lead anyone to believe that on the whole within this community their is a near consensus that Laporta creates a vile response from a Cleveland fan).
I also believe, in reverse, this is what is probably working against Cunningham and in favor of Hannahan. Unfortunately there isn’t much that separates most of these players, other than player options/contract situations and obviously position flexibility. Projected talent level will probably be a distant third behind those first two categories in the final decision.
Hannahan and Duncan (with Chisenhall starting at 3B) it is…
So here is the LGT consensus pre-spring training 25-man roster:
Jimenez
Masterson
Tomlin
Lowe
Garland (who still has yet to sign)
Perez
Pestano
Sipp
Smith
Perez
Hagadone
Wheeler
Santana
Marson
Kotchman
Kipnis
Cabrera
Chisenhall
Donald
Hannahan
Brantley
Sizemore
Choo
Duncan
Hafner
74 wins
Len Barker Perfect Game Attendee
by PortlandVinny on Feb 21, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions

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