Why Didn't Tampa Want Canzler?
by DanHennessey31 on Feb 2, 2012 7:00 AM EST
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PrintEditor's Note: Dan Hennessey will be joining Let's Go Tribe as a front-page author. He's blogged before at ESPN's SweetSpot, several independent blogs and SB Nation's Athletics Nation. Even though he's blogged about other teams, he's always been an Indians fan, and I think he'll fit right in here. Please join me in welcoming Dan to LGT. (Ryan)
On the surface, it could be a really simple answer. He’s a first baseman-type who isn’t a great hitter. As afh4 said yesterday,
Canzler has a lot of swing-and-miss in his game, and his power, while good looking the SLG column, is more tied up in doubles than any Canzler-devotees would like to see. Stop me if you've heard this one, but AAA doubles are often the product of poor fielding combined with some decent contact, and at the big league level, those balls stop finding inflated gaps.
Which is exactly right. Let's also not forget that the Rays expect to make the playoffs (three of the last four seasons) and have less room for error in the American League East. Giving away even 100 at-bats to someone who can't do the job hurts them more than it might hurt the Indians.
Canzler’s also right-handed, which doesn’t help his case. But the Rays spent a significant amount of money last year on Johnny Damon, Manny Ramirez, Casey Kotchman, and Dan Johnson to play first base and be the designated hitter. Of course, Ramirez lasted about a week with the Rays, and the other three players are a) left-handed and b) not especially talented hitters. Damon had an OPS+ of 110, not great for a 150-game DH, and Kotchman’s 128 OPS+ was inflated by an .335 BABIP that was 30 points higher than his previous career high and almost 60 points higher than his career average. Why couldn’t Russ Canzler be right-handed caddy for one of those guys last year?
Canzler was DFA’d to make room on the 40-man for Jeff Keppinger, who the Rays seemingly signed to compete for a spot in their utility infielder rotation with Sean Rodriguez, Reid Brignac, and Elliot Johnson. Seems like a lot of guys for two jobs. Johnson is older than the other two guys and not as talented; he’s also not going to play at Triple-A with Tim Beckham on his way there. If the Rays needed Keppinger, why was Elliot Johnson kept over Canzler?
The Rays also added Carlos Pena and Luke Scott this offseason, both of whom hit left-handed. Ben Zobrist and the quick ascent of Desmond Jennings give them a lot of added flexibility, so there are a lot of moving pieces in play here, including All-Star outfielder Matt Joyce. But it seems silly for the Rays to give Canzler away for nothing; their willingness to part with him for almost no return indicates to me, no matter how much I might talk myself into him, this move is probably nothing to be excited about.
Of course, no matter why the Indians got him, what really matters is what he can do in Cleveland. Because he’ll only cost them cash and a roster spot that no one else is claiming, the bar is set pretty low. From everything I’ve read, we can forget about third base or left field, because he can’t passably play either one. But there’s no reason he shouldn’t get a chance to show he can hit; hell, Matt LaPorta has been getting that chance for years. Even if Canzler is just a decent major league player, maybe someday he’ll turn into something that is really special. The Indians have a decent history of turning mediocre ballplayers into potential stars.
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I have what might seem like a stupid question for anyone who feels qualified to answer. One of the more damning scouting tidbits I have seen repeated on Canzler is that he has a slow bat. This is the same criticism that was leveled on Beau Mills back when he was still a decent prospect. And yet, we also learn this bit of information from Canzler’s (now) ex-teammate, Dirk Hayhurst:
And what a bat Russ has, too. He swings an absolute log—one of the heaviest I’ve seen used by hitters in my career. But that is part of his game.
If the book on you is that you have a slow bat, resulting in too much poor contact, wouldn’t using a lighter bat help?
I suppose it depends. Does he have a slow swing because of the weight of the bat, or does he have slow swing because of the length of he swing? If its simply a bat too heavy for the lad, then presumably a lighter bat might help. But if his swing is too long, then a shorter/lighter bat may only make him miss more balls because he can’t reach them.
Fear the Fedora.
by MooneysRebellion on Feb 2, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
What I was so impressed by when watching Russ play is that his swing is really a compact, effortless thing. He never tries to do too much with the ball, no extra moving parts that jerk the bat from its path in the trade off of control for power.
Another snippet from Dirk’s comment suggests he doesn’t have a long swing.
The graphs of batted ball speeds flatten out—you can generate a faster swing with a lighter bat, but that extra speed of the swing doesn’t result in an increase in BBS, and thus batted ball distance, because of the lighter weight. Thus the batter’s preference, what feels most comfortable to him, is more important that the specific weight.
Ideally, you swing that log like Gene Krupa swung his sticks.
But couldn’t it affect contact abilities?…How likely he can make mid-swing adustments?
by APV on Feb 2, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome, Dan, to LGT, where Gene Krupa bats cleanup.
by ken from alexandria on Feb 2, 2012 8:56 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
And where we talk about how thick of a log certain guys are swinging.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 2, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I get the ‘they must know something’ worry but I always remember, the indians are smart enough to have the same worry. Virtually zero risk here even if reward ceiling is low, so why not… So they did.
by Brick. on Feb 2, 2012 9:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Remember when everyone would say that about the Braves whenever they would deal their prospects? Every now and then an Andrus, Feliz, or Harrison falls out of a system. Canzler isn’t really comparable to those 3, but it’s not like the Tribe gave up Teixeira for him either.
or Marte
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 2, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Russ Canzler’s career arc sort of looks a little like a younger, right handed Jordan Brown: a success in the minors, you have to wonder how his doubles power will play in the majors. In the pre-spring training odds, don’t you think the older Shelley Duncan rates higher to fill the role of “low cost RH breakout bet”? After all, we know Duncan can hit in the majors (at least in eight week spurts).
How about because he’s old and not really a prospect who has only had a couple of decent years in the minors when he was old.
Not that hard to figure out.
Nope. Just no big mystery why Tampa let this guy go. Certainly no reason to overthink it. No reason to think he’s going to be anything great. Although, he might be better than LaPorta which would be nice.
You should start a blog where you summarize everything in one sentence. I will continue to appreciate the excellent writing an in depth analysis presented here, including from our new friend.
by Roger Dorn on Feb 2, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
This actually seems like a very “Jaysian” comment.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Feb 4, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
So not true. It actually is the kind of substanceless remark that really annoys me.
by Jay on Feb 4, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
You’re bound and determined not to make any fun out of this, aren’t you?
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
I think you’re wildly overestimating the determination that it takes to make this not fun. It’s basically effortless.
by Jay on Feb 6, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
A day late, but you got a legit LOL out of me.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 7, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Which won’t change the fact that the rest of us will occasionally call him Adam.
by Joel D on Feb 2, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
You also need an avatar. Group project!
by ken from alexandria on Feb 2, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’m typically scared when the Indians do business with smart teams. The Red Sox. The Rays. The Rangers.
I think one can make the case the Indians have done relatively well trading with these teams. There’s the Coco for Marte/Shoppach deal, which was not good, but Martinez for Masterson/Hagadone, etc. is looking better all the time. Shoppach for Talbot is a wash, in my opinion (although I wonder if a dumber team than the Rays would have given us more for Shoppach). The last trade I can think of with Texas brought us Hafner — for very little.
As Brick says above, this particular deal has zero risk. It may be that Canzler doesn’t become an asset, but they gave up absolutely nothing here to get him.
Even if doubles have less meaning at that level, he still got more than anyone else in the IL.
by DixonCayne on Feb 2, 2012 1:12 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
If anything it calls to mind the times we had Russell Branyan in his 2nd and 3rd tours of duty with the Indians and then gave him to the Brewers (and some other club?) for literally nothing. It almost seemed to me like a “hey let us do you a solid here, maybe you’ll be able to help us out in July if you’re out of it and we’re in it”.
That and maybe it was a Antonetti call to the Rays “For God’s sakes Friedman, Carlos Pena took less dollars to go play with you, the least you could do is throw us Russ Canzler!”
Laporta is making me happy about getting Kotchman. Ugh.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 2, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Hi Dan, welcome to LGT. Your colleagues are excellent writers. You should bring your “A” game.
I think your first comment is a throw-away that doesn’t resonate. On the contrary, given the evidence, it is more likely the Red Sox, Rangers and Tampa Bay are wary about trading with us than vice versa. Say what you will about other aspects of the Indians, like our mediocre drafts until three years ago…puts away razor blade… but this regime does a good job of sizing-up other teams minor league talent.
We’ve traded for the following young, unproven players from other teams minor league systems in the Shapiro-Antonetti years: Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Philips, Travis Hafner, Milton Bradley, Carlos Santana, Chris Perez, Justin Masterson, Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin Soo Choo, Michael Brantley, Coco Crisp, Carlos Carrasco, in no order. I’m probably missing someone.
Sure, we’ve missed on a few trades like LaPorta, Marte and Alex Escobar, with the jury still out on Carrasco, Marson, Donald and Knapp and even Ubaldo. Overall, however, our track record is strong, which probably helps explain why there is no mass uprising about LaPorta not working out.
Admittedly, Texas has done well for themselves recently. Elvis Andrus, Neftali Periz, Mike Napoli, Cliff Lee and Josh Hamilton are good hauls, although Hamilton could implode at any time. Tampa has no impressive trading record on which to speak. The Red Sox haven’t killed on that many trades. For Beckett, Gonzalez and Victor they’ve surely given up quality too. GIve it another year or two and we’ll see where Texas and Tampa are. They look formidable, but so did we in 2006 and 2008.
BTW Dan, may we inquire as to the bona fides of your Tribe Fandom? We come from all parts, so just curious in order that we can occasionally bust your balls.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 5, 2012 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
Note Masterson was a bit more major-league seasoned, but still.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 5, 2012 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
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