Grady Sizemore Strains Back, Likely to Start Season on DL
by Ryan on Feb 24, 2012 9:14 PM EST
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The good news? It's not a knee injury. The bad news? The knee rehab is going to be placed on hold while Grady rehabs from the back injury. I'm usually an optimistic sort, but this doesn't sound good at all:
"The challenge," Soloff said, "is that there's so many other compounding factors. The knee rehab had to be slowed down, if you would, so then any progress with that component has to be re-engaged after his back responds."
Opening Day is six weeks away, and the Indians are already forecasting that Grady will miss it.
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It’s a good thing you ended that with “yal,” so I can read the whole thing in a hick accent.
by Jay on Feb 26, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I’ve gone down that rabbit hole. More than one person has very patiently explained to me that it can go in either place, because there’s no way to tell which letter was removed when you combine “ya” and “all.”
by VA tribe fan on Feb 28, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
this
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 28, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Psst! It’s not funny if you explain it.
by VA tribe fan on Feb 28, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This puts more of a premium on getting someone on the roster who can play CF other than Brantley. Cunningham has logged two games at CF in the majors, Duncan has zero appearances in CF, and Choo has ten games. The “winners” of this in terms of increased opportunity to break with the club seem to be Pie and Carrera.
Pie and Carrera, sadly, isn’t the name of a delicious post dinner treat.
by Brick. on Feb 24, 2012 9:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The thought makes me feel Kevorkian
by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Feb 25, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure Carrerra and winners belong in the same sentence.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure Carrera gets the nod, but he should be better than he was last year if he does. If Pie is healthy, I wouldn’t mind seeing him win the 4th OF/backup CF job.
I think it’s six of one, a half-dozen of the other, frankly.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t have any stats in front of me, but I’ve seen Spilborghs play a lot of games in center and he always seemed to me to look like an above average defender with decent range.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 3:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Your last line is the one that is the must puzzling. It typically would be premature to already announce such a thing but since they have it certainly raises my eyebrows quite a bit.
I think they have a handle on about how long his back strain will need, and more importantly the delay it caused on his rehab from the knee injury. Basically I read this as, his back issue could be fine by Opening Day, but he’s not going to be up to speed with his knees until a date beyond that point.
Well, that didn’t take long.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Feb 24, 2012 9:51 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I won’t hurt myself saying ‘I told you so’, but an early Grady injury was definitely the most probable scenario in the “what could go wrong” offseason projection, and the FO did little to address it.
Altho most of the talk centered around first base, we actually had better roster coverage there than the OF. Signing Cunningham was an upgrade for the 4th OF spot, not for the starting left fielder. We needed a viable starting OF to hedge against Grady going down, and they didn’t do it. Even Fukudome would have given us better options, and we didn’t even sniff. Now he’s in the ChiSox outfield for a mere 1 mil.
Netti and Acta saying they’re “so sorry” for Grady. Screw that. The handwriting was not only on the wall, but in every line of his incentive laden, at bats dependent new contract.
If they are so prescient as to hedge his contract, then it follows they should’ve addressed the roster for the very same reasons.
Pretty much the same question for the last few months – if Grady goes down, what’s our starting OF? Now that he’s gone down, we still don’t have an answer.
Hmm. Somehow I think Jason Donald will be getting a lot of ST innings wearing a bigger glove, and Shelley Duncan might as well sell his 1B mitt on ebay.
Best scenario that will never happen but is so obvious – put Kipnis in LF and Donald at 2B and have a better starting lineup. But the invisible constraints of relative positional value in the open market pretty much preclude the obvious, right?
We needed a viable starting OF to hedge against Grady going down, and they didn’t do it.
In all fairness, it really seems like the tried.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
Really? Wow. They tried what?
As I said, even Fukudome would be better insurance than Cunningham to hedge against Grady missing time, and that is the least creative, and probly least expensive, option they could have pursued.
I’m pretty sure the Indians, had they tendered a contract to Fukudome, would have had to abide by MLB’s maximum pay cut restriction. If I’m right, the Indians would have had to have offered Fukudome something like $11M for the year….was obviously never going to happen.
So the ChiSox can sign him for $1M on the open market, but we couldn’t? I don’t think so. I believe we did the same for Grady – let him go FA, and resign him at market value.
My comment was not about Fukudome in particular, it was about our inability to anticipate a likely outcome.
APV is correct about this. It has to do with Fukudome still being in his arbitration years. However, his contract provided that if he was not given an extension by Nov. 15, he would become a free agent.
This, from Lastoria:
There is also an 80% rule for players in their pre-free agent arbitration years that requires clubs not to offer anything less than 80% of the player’s salary and performance bonuses the previous year or less than 70% of his salary and performance bonuses from two years earlier. Since Fukudome made $13.5 million in 2011, it would mean the lowest the Indians could pay him in 2012 would be $10.8 million which would obviously be a gross overpayment.
He notes that this may not have applied to Fukudome, as it only applies to players for whom arbitration is not offered. But if arbitration was offered, the Tribe would still be stuck paying Fukudome far more than $1M.
The moral of the story is that Fukudome was not an option.
by barsham on Feb 25, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks. I thought that rule had gone away, but apparently that was only for six year + players.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure I (or Tony) am correct. I am pretty sure that the Indians couldn’t really tender him a contract offer prior to the tender deadline, at which point he became a non-tender free agent. At that point I think the Indians were in an equal position as every other club. I don’t really get all the Fukudome love, though. He seems about an equivalent placeholder as half a dozen other guys, a few of which we acquired or signed to minor league deals.
To be perfectly blunt, I am trashing Netti, not loving Fukudome. He (Netti) didn’t do his job.
If you’re telling me that Aaron Cunningham was the best possible outfielder we could acquire this offseason to address the likelihood of Grady getting injured (a likelihood parsed and monetized by Netti himself), I would have to respectfully say: no, that’s nuts.
And altho I really don’t hold any love for Fukudome in particular, I have to say “really?” to your equivalency – what % of fantasy owners, let alone major league GM’s, when forced to choose between Fukudome, Cunningham, Lewis, Spillborghs and Pie for their remaining 2012 starting OF slot, wouldn’t choose Kosuke?
As I’ve now said repeatedly, Fukudome was not an option for Cleveland unless they wanted to pay him $11M. Do you want to pay him $11M. We have no way of knowing whether the Indians pursued guys like Beltran or other FA outfield options. Even if we did, we have no access to how or why we didn’t sign guys we pursued.
I would love to have Beltran ready to start in LF, Brantley in CF and Choo in RF. We don’t, but it doesn’t mean the front office didn’t try to make that happen.
And as I’ve said repeatedly, I am not arguing about Fukudome. Of course I don’t want to pay him $11M, and I’m fully aware of what we can afford, either in a FA pickup or trade.
Let me just ask you – if I put the scenario to you, back when Grady re-signed for his $5M + at-bats incentives, that he would get hurt in ST and that our starting OF would then be Brantley in left, Carrera in center, Choo in right, would you be content going into opening day with that?
And if not, would your solution be Aaron Cunningham?
It sounds like you are arguing that there should have been a better choice available. Is that what you are saying? If it is, who do you have in mind? Beltran? Who else are you talking about.
Trashing the front office is easy, even traditional, but these are only empty words unless you have in mind a specific alternative.
So … who are these outfielders we should have gotten?
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 25, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
All I’ve got so far out of it is Fukudome. We were in on Beltran and Willingham (who wouldn’t solve the Grady issue). So what else were we to have done. And I’d rather not get into the speculation of trades, as we have almost know way of knowing what was or wasn’t explored.
Matt LaPorta is the bane of my existence.
That’s a silly question. A fantasy owner would pick Fukudome because he’s the only regular of the bunch. If I had the ability to mete out playing time as a fantasy owner, I’d probably go with Lewis or Spillborghs.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
No moral here except bad planning by the FO – repeat after me: Fukudome signed a one year deal for one million dollars with the Chicago White Sox in November.
Just like Grady, he became a free agent and was signed on the open market.
Say it real slow so it sinks in – the cost to the Tribe to cover their own bet, the bet they put in writing when they told Grady they would gladly pay him his full $9million except now it was pay for play, 100 at bats at a time, the cost to cover that point blank possibility was $1M.
And as I said this is not about Fukudome in particular. I just chose him as the most obvious example of acquiring a decent fall back position, instead of having Jason Donald battle it out for the starting LF job.
Perhaps not, and I appreciate you and Barsham explicating the details of Fukudome’s tender status.
Do you see that I am not arguing about Fukudome in particular? I ’m using him as the most convenient example of what an upgrade to our OF corps was worth this offseason.
Kosuke was signed for $1M. We got Cunningham for Corey Burns. Getting somebody who would be a reasonable choice to step into a starting OF role wouldn’t break the bank or empty the farm system.
I ’m using him as the most convenient example of what an upgrade to our OF corps was worth this offseason.
Kosuke was signed for $1M.
Except you’re not using him as a legitimate example, because he wasn’t available for $1 million for us.
So who are the outfielders we should have gotten?
I like ex-Phillies prospects.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 25, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
He’s a perfectly good example of the approximate cost of a passable starting outfielder.
Here is the FA list of for outfielders this offseason, there are several on there that are better bets than Cunningham, if not Brantley, to produce in LF, at reasonable cost:
Not to mention trading for a player, which GM’s have been known to do from time time. The idea that there was nobody out there better than Cunningham as a hedge against Grady going down just ain’t right, imo.
I’m looking at your list, but I don’t see the same production value that you seem to. First of all, the Tribe was in on most of the guys I would have liked on that list (Beltran, Kubel, Willingham). Second, any major league deal (which most of your list received) is a guaranteed spot on the 25-man roster. It’s nice to have a backup for Sizemore, but we didn’t really have the roster space for him. Especially on a guaranteed deal. Also remember that free agent signings are a two-way street. The starting OF was Brantley, Sizemore, Choo. Any of these guys would have had to agree to a 4th OF job, and many of them might not have.
But most importantly…Most of the players on that list don’t seem like better options than Cunningham/Duncan/Pie/Spilborghs/Lewis. The only one who jumps out at me is Rick Ankiel, and that’s only because he’s been my favorite player since he came up with the Cards in 1999 (or maybe Reed Johnson, who seemed to fill the 4th OF role decently well last year).
As for trades…who was available? Angel Pagan and Andres Torres might have fit in and been reasonably priced, but they were traded for each other. And who’s to say that Antonetti didn’t ask?
As MTF said above, bashing the FO is one thing. But if you’re gonna do it (especially here at LGT…I would expect nothing less at Cle.com), provide some specific alternatives.
I’m certainly in the minority for having felt from November on that the OF was a higher priority than 1B as far as offseason issues to address. I’m not high on Brantley as the starting LF and think he profiles much better in center. And I thought, and still think, that Grady at whatever price is not a good bet to play a lot of games.
So when we signed Grady, I fully expected a trade for someone who would definitely be on the 25, who could step in and assume a starting role in LF if the obvious possibility of Grady going down early came to pass, with Brantley sliding over to CF, where he is a capable option.
We did trade for someone, and it was Aaron Cunningham. Now, I think he has some potential, but not a good bet for what is required – someone who can handle an everyday starting role.
I just don’t buy that Netti couldn’t do better than that. You ask who specifically could we have traded for? Well, there are a lot of major league OF’s that would be more suited than Cunningham for that role. They certainly would have been more expensive than Corey Burns, but we traded two other relievers and got Derek Lowe and Kevin Slowey. Did you predict either of those trades? Did anyone on this board suggest we trade Pomz and White for Jimenez when we were still contending last summer?
The answer is no – the GM identifies priorities and makes moves to address them. The reason I’m taking Netti to task is because Brantley is a weak left fielder and Grady a poor bet to play a lot of games, making the overall OF picture an offseason priority. One that I feel he did not address adequately.
I do think he identified it, and chose to hire/invite a lot of very inexpensive but potentially decent upside alternatives to address it, hoping Grady would last and, if not, then he could throw them against the proverbial wall and see what sticks.
I just happen to think that was not the way to do it – that he structured a very careful contract for Grady, but didn’t really follow thru on the inherent premise. Grady not being able to play much.
As far as the FA list (which again, I didn’t particularly expect any FA signing) I think if we were really “in” on Beltran, then we could have afforded Dejesus, who would have fit in pretty nicely in this relatively sudden “two year window”. As an alternative to Cunningham, I would definitely prefer Ludwick, Kotsay, Jones, Johnson, perhaps even Fukudome, who I’m still not sure after Jay’s post if we could have signed as a FA or not.
As far as cle.com – please – I’ve been reading and occasionally posting here for years, and am far from the madding DOLANZRCHEEP crowd. If it seems like I’m venting, well, this is the forum I’d do it in, but its the result of following this team very closely. The OF situation is one as a fan I expected the front office to come up with a solution for this offseason, going into 2012 with a lot of chips pushed to the middle of the table. I don’t think they did a very good job.
I can’t imagine why you think you are “in the minority” in think ing the outfield was a huge issue that needed lots of offseason help. The Indians obviously felt the same, given how many depth opions the team signed over the winter. So enough the the straw men, and get to your point. You say we had better options but don’t say who. Pointing to a list doesn’t qualify as making an argument: who on the list do you like better, and why, and what makes you think we could have signed them. Otherwise, I assume you are just whining.
I was referring to the fact that there were more articles and discussion centered around “what are we going to do about first base?”, since Laporta’s well documented troubles not only left us vulnerable at that position, but also represented some dashed hopes and fallout from the Sabathia trade.
Do you think that’s fair to say?
I thought and still think that the OF is the bigger issue. I explicitly said above that Netti identified it as an issue too – he just didn’t address it very well. I don’t call signing Pie, Cunningham, Lewis, et al upgrading a position, I call it providing AAA/AAAA depth. We didn’t have any, you know.
That is not a straw man argument. I don’t really know what you mean by that. I think Cunningham was a slight upgrade for 4th OF, while what was needed and still need is another starting OF that could reasonably assume duties once Grady went down.
Do you think its fair to say that we did not do that? If you do think so, how bout you give a specific example of someone on the roster right now that you have a high level of confidence will perform adequately as a starting outfielder come opening day? Someone who could very well need to there most of the year, excluding Choo and Brantley of course.
I guess you skipped over the part where I said I expected a trade rather than a FA signing, and that I didn’t buy that the best OF we could get via trade was Aaron Cunningham.
Do you think that Aaron Cunningham was the best and only trade option to address the “huge issue”?
As far as the FA list itself, I hope you’ve gotten the main point that it shows that the market cost of a passable outfielder isn’t necessarily that great. And I did point to specific players on the list that I thought would be better options on our 25 than Cunningham.
Of the names I mentioned, I’d prefer them because they’re better bets for what we need than Cunningham is. And while I know that every FA has a choice on whether or not to accept an offer, I assume they are signable because that’s the definition of free agency.
As far as whining, I guess you could categorize any statement that begins with “Netti should’ve…” as whining. I don’t think I’m whining, I think I’m arguing my point: Netti should’ve done a better job preparing the roster for the likely event of Grady getting injured.
Let me ask you the basic question that gets to the point: who is our starting left fielder right now?
Discussion of first base hasn’t anything to do with the outfield, and if the frequency a subject gets taken up here offends your sensibility I can sympathize but I think it irrelevant. The fact is that the outfield is a subject that (probably) every Indian fan has fretted about this past winter. This site saw plenty of articles and comments all through the winter focused on Grady, on the corner spots, on trade options and on the prospects who might become options.
Back to the point though, which is that you wanted the Tribe to get themselves a frontline veteran outfielder over the winter. I too had high hopes we could have found one, and I specifically focused on Beltran. In my case I loved his bat for our lineup and his defensive ability was a bonus. He chose differently, and since I couldn’t understand the prices the remaining possible free agents were commanding I’m happy we weren’t in the running for those guys.
Do you believe differently? Should we have competed at higher prices for one of those players? Who did you want, and what should we have paid? If we paid up for some other player should the money to pay for him have come from foregoing Kotchman, or maybe releasing Hernandez? What would you have done? If you advocate a trade, who would you have traded? And for whom?
Bitching about Antonetti is every fans right. I mutter about these guys all the time too. All I ask is that you follow it up with specific ideas. Who knows- I might agree. Other fans might too. But I think it’s frustrating to hear complaints unaccompanied by suggestions how the job might be done better.
No offense MTF, but I think, intentionally or nor, you’re missing or skewing the points I’ve brought up. I tried to ask you specific questions in turn to clarify those points, so that by answering them you might show me the error of my ways, or at least my argument, and you declined to answer any of them.
In this entire thread I never took Antonetti to task for not signing Beltran or some other “front line starter” (your words, not mine, so forgive me if I’m taking the meaning wrong, but I take it to mean “top of the line”, so to speak). In fact I’ve repeatedly said I never thought we would or could do that.
No, as I’ve said in every single post and riposte, including this one, what he needed to do was acquire a passable starting OF to address the eminent likelihood of Grady going down. Not a front-line starter, somebody we could afford (in players if by trade). He didn’t do that.
Can we at least agree on that?
I pointed out a few affordable FA signings that would have been an upgrade, complete with names and dollars. DWags posted a nice list of comparison stats. But it seems you’ve skipped over that. Let me ask you – if we were able to compete for Beltran, don’t you think we could have afforded a much cheaper FA?
As far as trades, no, I’m not going to list out all the trades he could have made. I will say he or any other GM, given the priority, could swing a deal for someone better than Aaron Cunningham.
It was Netti’s job to prepare the roster for the likely event of Grady going down early. He didn’t do that, since I’m pretty sure you can’t answer the one last question I left you with in the above comment:
Can you tell me who our starting left fielder is right now?
Once the Indians signed Sizemore on November 23rd, setting up a starting outfield of lefties Brantley, Grady and Choo, Antonetti’s options were: either get someone who is a clear upgrade over Brantley, or get a right-hand hittimg fourth outfielder. DeJesus signed with the Cubs on Nov. 30, when Beltran, Willingham, Kubel and Cuddyer were all still unsigned; it wouldn’t have made much sense to close out your OF options at that point with another lefty with middling success (107 OPS+ in the last three years) and a $5 million price tag for 2012 and 2013, counting the buyout the Cubs gave him.
If you believe the reports—and there’s no reason not to—the Indians were in on, but couldn’t sign, Willingham (who signed on Dec. 15, 3 years/$7m per), Cuddyer (Dec. 16, 3/10.5m), Kubel (Dec. 19, 2/7.5m), and Beltran (Dec. 23, 2/13). Hoynes said the Indians offer to Beltran was 2/12m per; if correct, then maybe Beltran didn’t spurn the Indians for aesthetic reasons but for financial ones. Would another $3 million have netted Beltran? Would the Cardinals have simply thrown more into the pot? Who knows.
At any rate, Coco Crisp signed with Oakland that same day; others off the market by then were Laynce Nix, Reed Johnson, Aaron Rowand, Mark Kotsay and Willie Bloomquist. Who’s left?
Well, some lefties: McLouth, Ankiel, Cust, Corey Patterson, Juan Pierre, DeWayne Wise, plus two guys still available, Damon and Ibanez. They signed Felix Pie on Dec. 11 and Fred Lewis on Jan. 20.
What about righties? Scott Hairston, Willie Harris, Cody Ross, Johnny Gomes, Andruw Jones, plus two guys still out there, Magglio Ordonez and Marcus Thames. Cunningham came over on Dec. 16 and Spilborghs was signed on Jan 20.
I guess you could argue for Cody Ross, who signed with Boston for $3m, or Gomes (Oakland got him for a million), or even Andruw (Yanks, $2 million). But I’m not sure I’d fulminate over not signing them. And maybe Magglio is in our future yet—though he’s coming off that broken ankle and says he won’t sign an NRI deal. His 634 OPS last year wasn’t helped by a 275 BABIP (through June 20th, a 192 BABIP led to his line of 172/232/224; the rest of the year, with a typical 319 BABIP—his career line is 316—his slashes were 300/341/390).
by YoDaddyWags on Feb 26, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Magglio’s power numbers are ugly, and I wonder if his contact skills, compared to his post-June 20 numbers (and which otherwise have been pretty consistent in recent years), aren’t about to crater. Still, if he would settle for $750K or $1M, it could be a nice bridge to Grady and also provide the oft-mentioned righty bat. Assuming, of course, he’s willing to play left. I can’t imagine he would opt for forced retirement over a left field assignment, but stranger things have happened.
But, hell, maybe Duncan’s a better player than Magglio at this point.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 26, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not really fulminating over not signing any of them, because I frankly didn’t expect them too.
As far as the top tier FA’s, I would have loved getting Beltran in particular. But those were the guys that a lot of teams were interested in, and it would have been a real surprise if they had signed with us. At least, I’d be surprised!
If the Tribe was really intent on bolstering the OF via free agent signing, it is the middle and lower tier that would represent a more realistic pickup, and could have been had without waiting for the bigger fish to finally not bite.
Even guys you mention like Ross and Jones would look pretty good on our roster right now. You could make the case that they are better options than Brantley (in left) even.
Here are the oWAR per PA over the last three years (oWP3) for the outfield crop:
7.603 Beltran #
5,013 Willingham
4.796 Crisp #
4.560 Damon * (not that he can play OF anymore)
4.138 Cuddyer
2.985 Sizemore *
2.881 DeJesus *
2.831 Cust *
2.801 Kubel *
2.784 Gomes
2.750 McLouth *
2.724 A. Jones
2.645 S. Hairston
2.478 Ibanez *
2.399 R. Johnson
2.326 Ross
2.184 L. Nix*
2.016 Ordonez
1.274 Brantley *
0.963 Pierre *
0.661 Ankiel *
0.397 LaPorta
Kubel and Cuddyer signed for more than $2.5 million per oWP3. Sizemore, at $1.675m, was only a bit cheaper than Beltran ($1.710m). Willingham, at $1.396m, was the most productive, affordable and low-risk of the 2012 free agent options. Guys like Ross, Jones or Gomes are only marginally productive. Duncan’s at 3.162 oWP2 in his Cleveland career, and he sometimes catches the ball, so he’s not a totally hopeless defender.
Johnny Damon has a higher oWP3 than Hafner does (Pronk’s at 4.369), and has averaged 629 PAs in each of the last three seasons. One might consider signing him for $3m and trading Travis—and picking up a big chunk of his contract—for an OF prospect. Hell, Pronk’s buyout is $2.75m; you could pick up the whole $13m.
by YoDaddyWags on Feb 26, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The oWAR per PA numbers are multiplied by 1,000 for ease of comprehension. And Willingham’s comma should be a decimal point, or he would have commanded an astronomical contract.
Here’s some first basemen’s oWP3, for fun:
9.556 Pujols
7.435 Fielder
4.152 Carlos Pena
3.492 Derrek Lee
1.447 Kotchman
Pujols is $20,000 per oWP3 cheaper than Jason Kubel—for 2012, anyway.
Why are you so certain we still can’t make a trade for an OFer now, an entire month before the season even begins?
Never said we couldn’t – just said it should have been done before Grady got injured. Generally best to hedge your bet before the undesired outcome hits.
I’d love it if Netti’s response was to swing a trade for a decent outfielder, I certainly feel we need one. But I tend to doubt it will happen – its not like he didn’t do anything, he did sign/invite about 2 outfields worth of AAAA players, and they are all in camp now knowing that there is a complete free for all competition for a starting position.
I guess my point is, I would hope he makes a trade when the best opportunity prevents itself and that might unfortnately not be until the season starts and some team falls out of contention.
I think given his brief track record as GM, he seems to feel that in season trades are better values.
Cleveland: where opportunities prevent themselves.
by cleveland teamer on Feb 27, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
because he wasn’t available for $1 million for us.
I recall the rule, but I can’t believe that it isn’t waived once a player hits the open market, as in Kosuke’s case.
It is indeed waived. Once he’s a free agent, he’s a free agent.
I see the Fukudome contract as indicative of two things other than the cost of a starting outfielder.
(1) His signing for $1 million indicates that he wanted to go back to Chicago.
(2) His signing for $1 million — about one-third of the average MLB salary by the way — indicates that the market doesn’t see him as any kind of reasonable option as a starting outfielder.
(3) Indeed, the market valued him at one-third the value of Casey Kotchman, who may or may not turn out to be a legit starter at 1B this season.
(2) His signing for $1 million — about one-third of the average MLB salary by the way — indicates that the market doesn’t see him as any kind of reasonable option as a starting outfielder.
(2) His signing for $1 million — about one-third of the average MLB salary by the way — indicates that the market doesn’t see him as any kind of reasonable option as a starting outfielder.
Just wondered what it would look like.
by YoDaddyWags on Feb 27, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Keep an eye out for Kosuke’s contract among the potsherds and animal bones, the next time you’re down there.
by YoDaddyWags on Feb 27, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
It seems to me that the FO felt that we already had a viable centerfield backup in Brantley and therefore felt they needed to look primarily at corner outfielders. Was there a corner outfielder out there that the Indians were not reported to be in on that I missed?
by woodsmeister on Feb 25, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
:
Here’s the latest Plain Dealer take, filled with typos yet strangely accurate:
“If Brantley moves to center, Ezequiel Careera, Aaron Cunningham, Shelley Duncan, Ryan Spilborgs, Felix Pie, Fred Lewis and Chad Huffman could get a look in left field.
Related topics: cleveland ilndians"
I don’t think Carrera is a starting CF, but I think he is undervalued here at the moment because of his bonehead plays and poor performance last season. There is no reason to think he can’t put up slightly better than league average OBP while being an above average defensive CFer and baserunner. Which would make him a decent 4th/5th outfielder.
Yeah I agree with this in the sense that I don’t understand any of this “doom and gloom” because of this. Anyone thinking he was going to have a 100% healthy season was deluding themselves. He’s probably going to end up on the DL a couple more times. The only hope is that none of the injuries involve the need for knee surgery.
The guy couldn’t make it through the first week of spring training without getting injured – how is he going to be able to handle the rigors of the season? I think the “doom and gloom” is justified.
I’d bet on Hafner at this point. Sizemore’s seemingly reached the status of straining something reaching for a toothbrush.
Agreed. Pronk over 100 and over Sizemore.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 28, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
The idea that you are less likely to be injured in the month plus long spring training portion of the baseball season is unfounded. You point to the rigors of the season, and I point to the stress created on the body as it moves toward preparing for those rigors.
Or another way to put it, the fat guy on the couch jumping up to get the door before the pizza guy leaves is more likely to suffer a muscle strain than the marathon runner completing the last kilometer of his marathon.
That’s a bit of an unfair analogy, isn’t it? We’re talking about some of the best athletes in the world, most of whom have been rigorously training throughout the offseason. I think we’re past the days of
My point is simply that it’s a long season. Sizemore has been in spring training for a week and is scheduled to miss 4-6 weeks. Over 162 games, he’s likely to miss at least a couple of 4-6 week periods during the season.
This might be the ultimate in wishful thinking, but there is part of me that is glad Sizemore has had a non-knee related setback. Sizemore has consistently shown extremely poor judgement with regards to his understanding of the health of his own body…pushing through injury too much and rushing rehab after the fact. This seems to ensure that the Indians will monitor everything he does from here out, without Sizemore having re-injured his knee in anyway.
Great point.
I wonder what would be happening if Grady had signed with another team and felt greater pressure to perform on the field. If Grady is able to turn things around this season and sign a decent contract he will look back on this move as the one that saved his career. /(Wishful thinking that he performs well later this season).
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Feb 25, 2012 9:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am not sure any of the permutations people are making to replace Sizemore are much different. In my humle opinion all variations are just about the same thing. I think the best that comes out of this is that Brantley leads off and plays centerfield. I know this wont be popular on this board,but I think I would give LaPorta the first shot with a little Duncan sprinkled in occasionally. See if he takes advantage. Give him a few weeks if he finally “figures it out” then you have found another RHB which they are in desperate need of and if not then when Sizemore comes back you send him down till September and leave him there and use Spillborghs (who I like a little better then Cunningham), but its a toss up for me. Knowing the Tribe Donald will start in LF and Guzman will be our utility.
Must be a lot more serious than a strain or some other minor tweak. Otherwise you wouldn’t write off his availability six weeks down the road…
Except that the real problem appears to be that they put his knee rehab on hold.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 25, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
I had not heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me. I had serious back trouble about twenty years ago and any physical activity made it worse. Of course, with the Tribe’s past history of been less than forthright about injuries it makes you wonder…
I won’t defend the FO’s lack of transparency on injuries, but in this particular case it seems logical to announce it on the first day of full squad workouts. In a bigger market, we would have heard about it when it happened because it would have leaked to Gordon Edes or someone. I’m sort of glad we’re not that market.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Feb 26, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Considering he’s already in camp and running wind sprints with the players, maybe the should just plug in Lofton in CF.
He’s less likely to get hurt and may even K less, right?
by PBH on Feb 25, 2012 9:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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