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My Thoughts

Signed OF David Dellucci to a Three-Year, $11.5M Contract

First, a quick overview of David Dellucci.

David was originally drafted by the Baltimore Orioles in 1995, and made it to AA by the end of the next season. He made his major-league debut with the Orioles towards the tail end of the 1997 season, and was drafted by the Arizona Diamondbacks in that winter's Expansion Draft. He was a regular for Arizona in the first year of their existence, but was reduced to a reserve outfielder after that. He was dealt to the Yankees in a semi-interesting deadline deal in 2003. After the season, he signed with the Texas Rangers, where he got regular at-bats  over the next two seasons. He was dealt to the Phillies before the 2006 season, and hit .292/.369/.530 in 264 at-bats.

Dellucci's strength is hitting against right-handed pitching (career .263/.348/.449). His defense is such that he should only be playing in left field. Platooning in left field with Jason Michaels would make a lot of sense. It also creates a logjam in the outfield, which the Indians should use to address other needs.

The contract isn't all that bad, considering what other outfielders have been getting, and it shouldn't preclude the Indians from making a move that they could have made before the signing. In fact, I'd wager that this signing will directly lead to further deals. Ryan Garko could be used to procure a better closer than the free agent market holds. Jason Michaels could be used to land a decent reliever. And so forth.

In isolation, it's a nice deal, but other moves have to be made for it to look good in the big offseason picture.

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Re: My Thoughts
 I try to go to a couple of games a week, and I watched Dellucci play his two year in Texas, he plays hard but he will be the tribes worst defensive outfielder his arm is up there with Coco's.  Not sure where he will bat in the lineup in Cleveland. In Texas he was their lead off hitter, had a lot of extra base hits, but I hated to see him come up with runner on, that is unless we were playing the tribe. I still do not think this will help us next year, but at 4mill in today's market it not a big deal now the three years is hard to take. To get anybody this year you have to over pay we did it in years.  
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 1:51 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Pointless.
I saw this news on my plane ride back home this evening and was incredibly angry.  I don't understand why Shapiro was spending ANY time talking to ANY hitters.
UNLESS
There is something in the works - which I have a feeling there is.  As far as a trade is concerned.  Why else would he sign Dellucci for 3 years if he is virtually only around for the same reason the team brought in Hollandsworth last year.  My guess is that there is something going on with Blake, Garko, Choo, Micheals and/or Guittierrez.

But it better be big, because any time Shapiro spent courting Dellucci is time he took away from figuring out the bullpen situation.

by Brandini on Nov 28, 2006 2:33 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
We really must assume that this means Garko and possibly Gutz are on the way out, and hopefully for a decent return in the form of a relief pitcher.
While we don't know what Shap. is up to, it is hard to conclude anything but the following:
  1. LF anno. 2007 will be Delucci/Michaels (a fine if uninspiring platoon at a reasonable price)
  2. Gutz can be moved and is decent bait because: a) he's still unproven but teams are dying for CF options, b) Crowe is a year away in the wings, c) neither Gutz nor Crowe were being counted on for 2007, nor would either replace Grady in CF, and d) if necessary, Francisco can be brought up as OF replacement (would Gutz currently give a great deal more than BenFranc?)
  3. vs. RH the lineup can be (going left to right to first): Delucci/Grady/Choo/Blake), vs. LH the lineup can be: Michaels/Grady/Blake/Vic, with Shoppach behind the plate--and I think they believe this lineup will produce at/above 2006 levels.
and finally,
     4. in 2008 one would expect Crowe to be in the OF and Delucci/Choo platooning with someone RH currently in AA/AAA (Goleski, Barton) whom they hope will develop into a viable option. First base will be something to sort out later.

In short: Garko and Gutz gone, closer (Shields or Gonzalez) found.

by DocNo on Nov 28, 2006 3:11 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
A good summary.  I bailed on you though at #4, that's just too far out right now for me to speculate on.

Gutz probably is gone, but I'm less sure about Garko.  I have a feeling that Wedge won't let go easily of him, as he liked him enough to bat him (a rook) in the 4 hole.  That's a pretty rare endorsement for a young player from Wedge.

by Thommy on Nov 28, 2006 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I agree that they would rather hold on to Garko than Michaels...my speculation is based solely on return value, and the supposition that Garko (young, cheap,  professional hitter, but slow as a turtle...which brings to mind Zeno's paradox...about how Achilles can never outrun the turtle...but that's another story)...is better trade bait.

by DocNo on Nov 28, 2006 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Good pick up, imo...regardless of any other moves.  With these OPS numbers vs righties....

Peralta - .700
Marte - .685
Barfield - .675

....combined with iffy production from youngsters Choo and Garko, I thought we looked potentially weak vs righties.  Blake is never a sure thing either.  Only 3 good bats for sure vs righties...Pronk/Grady/VMart.  Dellucci gives us another boost, with Michaels or Gutz likely out of the picture.  Michaels may not be worth the salary he'll get to only face lefties.  D.D. could put up great #s batting between Grady and Pronk and will be a nice lefty bat off the bench in PH situations.

Hopefully our young infield will produce better, along with Choo, but signing Dellucci is a smart precautionary move.  He won't make so much that we can't still pay for some pitching.  And when a kid(Crowe/Barton/etc.) is ready, D.D. will still have value as a platooner, bench player, or as a tradeable commodity....more value than Michaels for sure.

by Chiefroy on Nov 28, 2006 3:39 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Ryan,

The reason that Dellucci had so few at-bats following his 1998 season was a strange wrist injury/condition (something called Kienbock's disease).  There is a nice timeline on his BP Pecota page.

by dgcambridge on Nov 28, 2006 8:45 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Thanks for the info - I thought it odd that he'd be shuffled to the bench given what he'd done.

by Ryan on Nov 28, 2006 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I agree Ryan.  This signing will be best evaluated by the deals that follow.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 28, 2006 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I'm starting to get excited thinking of what Shapiro is working on behind closed doors. I expect (or maybe hope) it will be big, sort of awesome, and something no one has discussed.

by afh4 on Nov 28, 2006 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Me too, but rip thinks I'm drinking too much Indians Kool Aid.  Whatever that means.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 28, 2006 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Remember the Simpsons episode where Marge goes into the pretzel business and Homer hires the mob to drive her competitors at Fleet-A-Pita out of business?  Then Fleet-A-Pita hires the yakuza to fight back, with the episode ending in the mob war?  
Edna: Well, well, if it isn't Marge Simpson and her gangland cronies.
Maude: Your goon squads certainly gave you the edge in the mobile snack business.  But I'm afraid we've outdone you once again.  Hiroshi, Yukio...
[steps aside to reveal a group of armed Japanese]
Perhaps you've heard of the Yakuza -- the Poison Fists of the Pacific Rim -- the Japanese mafia.
Agnes: They'll kill ya five times before you hit the ground!

The two groups step forward, and soon the Simpsons' yard is the theater of punches and flying ninja stars.

Marge: Homie, maybe we should go inside.
Homer: But, Marge, that little guy hasn't done anything yet.  Look at him.  
[the man in white suit stands still amidst the fight]  
He's going to do something and you know it's going to be good.
[Marge pulls him back into the house and shuts the door]
[inside, a loud ninja yell can be heard, followed by a thump]
Homer: Aw...

Shapiro is the little Japanese mobster in the white suit...

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 28, 2006 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
awesome. that is exactly how I think of shap. maybe the Indians will never win but I will always think our GM is the biggest badass in the room. I can't help it. He brought in Grady Sizemore.

by afh4 on Nov 28, 2006 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
This is why I watch the Simpsons, Family Guy, and Futurama - so that maybe - someday...I can post something cool like that too. (sigh).

by Thommy on Nov 28, 2006 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Probably the funniest thing I've read in a month.

Who else went searching for an image of that little guy in the white suit?

by The DiaTriber on Nov 28, 2006 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
The one thing Shapiro's moves over the last year have consistently done is provide the Indians with both fiscal and on-the-field flexibility.  We have a lot of interchangeable parts now, none of which are either so heinous fiscally or performance wise as to be unmoveable.  In the context of this kind of market, coming from Cleveland's perspective, this is a good thing.  It puts Cleveland into a position where they can exploit or take advantage of opportunities where they arise and aren't confined by specific needs.  As Ryan says, though, the value of flexibility is in what you do with it.  I'm still expecting a big trade involving someone on the 25-man roster and prospects.

by APV on Nov 28, 2006 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I agree, I think part of the problem the last few years, was he took this flexability into the season expecting to be in position to add pieces before the trading deadline, but then we always did terrible in the first half of the season and weren't really into contention until the second half.

by hans on Nov 28, 2006 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Nice summary, Ryan.  I'm actually relieved -- I was confused, thought we'd signed this guy.

by Jay on Nov 28, 2006 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I really don't like the idea of signing Dellucci in order to trade Garko for a reliever.  If we did that, we would end up with say, Dellucci and Shields for a combined $7-8 million dollars to play "hitter" and relieve.  In contrast, we could have Garko and a $7-8 million free agent reliever, to fill the same positions.  Dellucci and Shields are both over 30, and Dellucci is basically a platoon/4th outfielder.  Granted, there aren't many Shields-quality relievers on the market, but I really don't like the idea of trading away our good young every-day players for other teams older supporting players.

If we could get away with trading Blake, Michaels, or less proven commodities for Shields or another reliever, I would be all for this.

by MikeP on Nov 28, 2006 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
we would end up with say, Dellucci and Shields for a combined $7-8 million dollars to play "hitter" and relieve.  In contrast, we could have Garko and a $7-8 million free agent reliever, to fill the same positions.

That's a good way to parse it, but are you sure it leads where you think it does?  I don't know who your theoretical $7-8 million reliever is, and I don't think you know either.

In a market where Baez gets $6 million, do you really think Garko + Baez-plus is going to be better than Dellucci and Shields?  I don't.

by Jay on Nov 28, 2006 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Do you really think they will trade Shields for Garko. We are going to have to give up more a lot more than that to get Shields.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Yeah, there aren't any exciting free agent relievers on the market, especially if Baez is getting $6 million per.  If Baez is worth that, would Shields get $8 million as a free agent? $10?

I'm still getting used to the idea of paying so much for a guy who throws 70 (high leverage) innings a year.  I guess my point is, if Shapiro makes a trade for a reliever, what we're really doing is spending $7-8 million on a reliever, which is a lot of money for a team like the Indians.  It's over 10% of the year's budget for a pitcher that pitches <5% of the innings.

This just fits in with a bigger complaint I have about the Indians, in that they seem to spend money in $1-4 million dollar pieces on backups and mediocre starters like Alex Cora, Jose Hernandez, and Boone.  Having legitimate backups is nice, especially for a team like the Red Sox or Yankees who can afford it.  But for a team like the Indians who are probably going to get some breaks to win, I think investing in backups, relievers, and average players is a good way to have average seasons.

by MikeP on Nov 28, 2006 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
It might be something we have to suck up though.  It cost us close to 15 or 20 games this year and in 2004.  It is kinda a big deal.

by Tribe Alive on Nov 28, 2006 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
In my guesstimation, I don't project Garko to 100+ RBIs, at least not for next season. That said, I do think it's reasonable to figure him to do a few things next year.

  1. Hit both righties and lefties well. His career splits don't peg him as a platoon player, of which the Indians seem to have plenty right now.

  2. Flash some bat in the middle of the order. He does his homework and keeps his head. With the rest of the infield due to hit 7-8-9 (and strike out, oh, 120 times apiece), well...SOMEBODY'S got to bat 5th. It may as well be the guy who's shown some competence up there.

  3. Stay healthy. He's got no injury history. Casey Blake, on the other hand, is starting to show some fragility. If we trade Garko, who backs up Blake at first? Luna? (Just...threw up in my mouth a bit...)

  4. Make good decisions in the field. He's obviously a smart guy, and you can partly make up for a lack of athleticism at first with good positioning, knowing when to make a cut-off, etc. Scott Hatteberg was also once an oldish converted catcher at first base, and I don't hear many complaints about his defense anymore. And, the easiest projection of all...

  5. Be cheap. Garko showed one thing above all else last year: He's f'n sick of Buffalo, and he played as if league minimum salary was Solomon's treasure.

For these reasons, I would very much like to see Ryan as a full-time 1B next year. Also, I tend to think the Angels have a more proven bat in mind for Shields. Remember J-Mike for Rhodes? Not that that's a comparable deal, it's just that both had a logged a lot of miles. I don't think they ditch Scot Shields for half a season of decent first base. Which, of course, is fine with me.

by fleerdon on Nov 28, 2006 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
If we trade Garko, who backs up Blake at first? Luna?

Victor.

by Jay on Nov 28, 2006 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I'm not sure if a 26 year old who had decent success and isn't looking as though he will be anything more then Sean Casey will net a whole lot in the trade market.
I would guess Blake and his 25+HR would bring in a little more.

by Brandini on Nov 28, 2006 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
My concern in trading Blake is if we have an injury at 1st, 3rd,LF or RF he can fill in and not kill us with his the bat or the glove. Plus I think we would have to be overwhelmed for the FO to trade him. He plays hard does what ever the FO asks him to do.  Willing to move from 3rd to RF and to 1st if needed, willing to bat anywhere in the lineup, a true team player.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
If Garko turns out to be a high-average, moderate power, good glove, great in the clubhouse guy like Sean Casey, a whole lot of teams will be interested.  You could do a lot worse at first base than a guy with Casey's numbers.
July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Nov 29, 2006 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I agree, we could do much worse than that.  But I think you're point is what other teams would think of him and his value in trade.  If he's all of those things, then we need to find another option to trade away, wouldn't you agree?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 29, 2006 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
My point is that while the majority of teams would prefer a masher at first base, that's not always possible.  Teams with mashers at other positions can afford a guy at first base with Casey-like numbers.  Brandini posted about Casey as a comp as if it were an insult and that nobody would be interested.  My point is that a guy like Casey has significant value, and if teams think about Casey as a comp for Garko, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Nov 29, 2006 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Actually, I wasn't stating it as an insult.  I was stating it as the fact that Casey is far from "ideal" at 1b.  A team like Cleveland, Cincinatti and Detroit can afford to have a high average, below average power hitter(for the position) in Casey, however a team like the Pirates, Angels, etc could NOT afford that (the angels are on this list as they already have Garet Anderson).

Also...Consider that Casey was resigned by the Tigers for 1yr at 4million, that isn't much of a confidence booster for a high average, low power, good clubhouse guy.  In addition to that, look how little the Reds were willing to gain when trading for him.
Another alright comparison is Caseys FA contract this offseason v. Frank Thomas'.  Thomas has a contract for up to 3yrs at 28million.  The difference between these two; defence (Thomas plays none), a good clubhouse presence (I believe Thomas has been tabbed as a cancer recently v. Casey who is called "the govenor" - unless that is in reference to "the worst governor of all time"), oh, and power (Thomas can mash, Casey can't) - I suppose you could add average into this equation, something agian in Casey's favor.
So why is it that the guy who doesn't play D, is a poor clubhouse guy, has a low average however hits with power would merit a contract of such greater value?  Hes also 5 years younger!  I think the reasoning is because a guy with power is more - I want to say valuable, but that is in terms of league value - more, appreciated then the guy who has more hits for average and is a "good guy".

So that is why I believe Casey and his almost garunteed 25+ HR (not even mentioning his clubhouse presence, defensive flexibility and defensive ability) would be more attractive to teams then Ryan Garko.  As everyone should remember, I'm Garkos biggest fan and think he will be a phenomenal major leaguer.  I'm not sure many major league scouts or exec's would think the same way (think Kendry Morales).

by Brandini on Nov 29, 2006 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Casey?? Guaranteed 25+ homers?? SEAN Casey?? He's hit 25 homers once in his career and he's only topped 20 homers once in the past 6 years.  This is not the Sean Casey that hit the crap out of the ball in Cinncy.  That guy is gone.

by chodson28 on Nov 29, 2006 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Sean Casey is more likely to hit 5hr than to hit 25. His defense is ok, he is not a wizard out there by any stretch. And his nickname is the Mayor. (I lived near Cincy for awhile and got completely sick of hearing that)

That being said I think that there is no "ideal" at first base. I dare say the Tigers were pretty happy with him there last year. Players fit on certain teams. Some teams can use a decent defensive 1st baseman who hits .300 with little power because they make up for it elsewhere. (Carlos Guillen at SS, for example). Casey is a great fit for those teams. Is he a good fit for a team that needs more power? Of course not, but on a team that can already score a ton he is just fine. "Ideal" even

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 29, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
A team like Cleveland, Cincinatti and Detroit can afford to have a high average, below average power hitter(for the position) in Casey, however a team like the Pirates, Angels, etc could NOT afford that (the angels are on this list as they already have Garet Anderson).
I would guess Blake and his 25+HR would bring in a little more.

I should have been more consistent when discussing Casey Blake as I referred to him as both "Blake" and "Casey".

Sean Casey is more likely to hit 5hr than to hit 25.
This furthers my point that teams would be more interested in Blake then Garko.

by Brandini on Nov 30, 2006 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
It all becomes so clear now. I really thought you had lost it
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 30, 2006 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
This is an interesting side discussion.  I think the flaw in your argument, if there is one, is that you're ignoring the contracts.  Blake costs ten times more than Garko (or Casey) and will be a free agent in another year.

Garko will cost $1.2 million for the next three years combined, and still bargain rates for the next three years after that.  I think Sean Casey would be considered an immensely valuable player IF he were making the minimum.

Which means that if Garko plays like Casey, at his salary, he's extremely valuable.  Even in this "GMs Gone Wild" environment.  Maybe especially in it, considering how few teams can truly participate in "the new math."

by Jay on Nov 30, 2006 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I just had a mental image of Shapiro pulling his shirt up and yelling "woooo." Must be time for bed.
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 30, 2006 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I have almost seen Blake expiring contract as a selling feature.  Teams that have a prospect that is "almost there" can use Blake and his versatility all over the field while not hurting their current financial situation.  
Did they get rid of draft pick compensation?

I personally like Garko, especially on the Indians.  I just don't see teams in need of a young 1B giving up much for him.  In the trade market I would rank him below Adrian Gonzalez and Lyle Overbay whom didn't net incredible players, yet valuable ones.

by Brandini on Nov 30, 2006 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Teams that have a prospect that is "almost there" can use Blake and his versatility all over the field while not hurting their current financial situation.

Um, isn't that what we're using him for?  Clearly the hope is that two players -- among Garko, Crowe, Gutierrez and Choo -- emerge to claim starting jobs in 2007.

In the trade market I would rank him below Adrian Gonzalez and Lyle Overbay whom didn't net incredible players, yet valuable ones.

I think Overbay has not proven out to have any more talent than Garko.  And again, you're forgetting the cost factor.  You really need to consider how attractive players are with some talent but almost no service time.  That is the reason they hardly ever get traded.

by Jay on Nov 30, 2006 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Which is what made the Barfield deal so rare.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 30, 2006 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I find it interesting that the AP article quotes Dellucci's agent quite prominently as saying the Indians have given Dellucci the starting LF job. I wonder if they actually did that, and isn't that the same thing they told Michaels last season? At any rate, Michaels can't be happy to hear that news. Maybe it doesn't matter what he thinks, but if true, it's probably evidence that Michaels is part of the larger trade many of you have speculated is in the works.

by Tribe Fan Matt on Nov 28, 2006 1:11 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Eh, I'm guessing they told Dellucci the same thing I'm guessing they told Michaels: if you hit lefties (or in Jason's case, righties) you'll be the full time starter. Of course an agent will try to spin that as a promise of a starting job. But it's a promise with a contingency, and one that will likely not come true. But there's no way Dellucci is going to raise a fuss, just as Michaels won't, if they continue to flounder against righties/lefties. No player, especially ones with the general reputations of professionalism of Dellucci of Michaels, are going to demand to start against the types of pitchers they can't hit if they've been given a chance to do so and have failed.

Plus, agents want to make their clients look as good as possible. Maybe the Indians promised 400 ABs, a number they can reasonably get him to. It's not that outrageous for an agent to construe 400 abs as a starter. I mean it qualifies and everything, right?

by afh4 on Nov 28, 2006 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I'm sure the Indians won't say precisely what the agent said.

I'm also sure the agent doesn't say that unless he's been assured his player won't be sitting against lefties on a regular basis.

My guess is that Choo and Dellucci alternate sitting against lefties -- in favor of Garko, not Michaels.  Wouldn't that make sense anyway?

Ultimately it's the team's call, but it hurts the team in the long run if they're perceived as untrustworthy.

by Jay on Nov 28, 2006 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
For what it's worth the guys at USS Mariner think it's a good deal, actually calling it the best FA signing thus far this offseason.

Reading stuff like this from envious fans on other boards always makes me happy....it's such a good feeling to know our GM is not just competent, but one of the best, perhaps THE best, in the business.  

Yes, I have a complete man-crush on Shapiro.

by Jackdaw on Nov 28, 2006 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I still think Trevor Crowe is the guy that the FO is thinking of moving.  

It's the Coco Crisp thing all over again, this guy isn't going to be that valuable to us in left field.  I still think Gutierrez is more valuable to us as the cheap, backup centerfielder/possible right handed hitting platoon.  Now you have Dellucci for 3 years.  

You also get the feeling that Choo's defense in RF is something we're going to want to keep for the foreseeable future.  

by cheech99 on Nov 28, 2006 3:55 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Despite the fact that I want to, I'm not disagreeing with your thought that Crowe may be moved.  What was it Shapiro said about possibly the next player we'd trade?  The comment, something to the effect of "this one might hurt", would fit Crowe quite nicely given the DD signing.

by Thommy on Nov 28, 2006 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
though this seems like a reasonable signing, i think it begs the question:

how does Dellucci's projected performance compare to what we might have expected from Iwamura in left?

i guess it will also depend on how much Iwamura ends up signing for, but all in all, does it seem like we got the better deal of the two?

i really have no idea, so i'm wondering what everyone's opinions are.

i can't claim to be excited about a marginal upgrade in offense, as i don't really see how that solves any of our problems... but it does bring me comfort to know that we can trust Shapiro to seldom do anything phenomenally stupid (which is more than you can say of most GMs).

by nctribefan on Nov 28, 2006 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I was listening to Kenny Roda (Rhoda?) on the way back from UA today. I really hope that the average Clevelander is not as stupid as that guy. He is complaining about the Dellucci signing "with a guy like Manny on the market." He claims the Indians should trade whatever is necessary to get Manny. Apparently the fact that Manny would cost more than our entire outfield at this point means little to him.

He also bemoaned the Crisp/Marte deal some more. He ranted about how the FO clearly has no faith in Marte if we were trying to sign "a Japanese 3d baseman." It was annoying to hear someone who supposedly is in tune with Cleveland sports complain about that when we were trying to sign him as a LF and he didn't even know the guy's name.

It is idiots like Roda that make being an Indians fan hard sometimes. Sorry to vent all of that... I like this move to an extent. It would be great if Dellucci hit 20+ HR's again but at this time last year I was hoping for the same thing from J-Mike.

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 28, 2006 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I feel you. Me, I listen to the radio and read the print for laughs, then come here for sanity.  

by Thommy on Nov 28, 2006 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Well said.

I can't tell you how often I drive around (on the road during the day), as my blood pressure rises, listening to the ignorance of Cleveland Sports Radio and the sheep that throw in their "take".

by The DiaTriber on Nov 28, 2006 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
That post goes into the LTG Hall of Fame.  Well said.

by chodson28 on Nov 28, 2006 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Rhoda is a pittsburgh native who is on cleveland sports radio. I do not care what he says nor should anyone who has a clue whats going on. He has no validity on subjects for the Browns, Cavs, and especially the Indians. ie, "The Browns were 4-12 last year"...wrong 6-10. I am with you 100% on this one.

by erdygerdy on Nov 28, 2006 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I don't mean to take the thread off-track but the paucity  of anything resembling intelligent sports talk in Cleveland is one of my pet peeves. Ever since Sindelar and Levine went off the air, we don't have anyone who has a clue about baseball on the airwaves.  That obese, racist bag of horse manure Trivosonno doesn't even talk sports anymore...which, come to think of it, is a good thing. The average Clevelander may be as stupid as Rhoda and Triv but the average baseball fan isn't.  These guys, they are an embarrassment and an affliction upon us all.
Chagrin Rick

by Chagrin Rick on Nov 28, 2006 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I agree totally, however if you do like Levine, his show, More sports and Les Levine is on every weekday at 6pm on Timewarner channel 15(Medina County). His guest on Tuesdays is usually Terry Pluto of akron beacon journal, and on Mondays Hoynsie from the Cle PD is on, I respect what both those two say more so than Triv, Rhoda, and santa clause combined. If your out of Cleveland or have another cable provider, I'll try to find out what channel

by erdygerdy on Nov 28, 2006 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I wish I could turn on the radio and hear something decent. I guess I am not the only one who feels this way. The only Indians news I trust is what I get from Underwood and Hamilton give before/during games. They should have a weekly update show or something.
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 28, 2006 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
STO just premiered The Tribe Report with Matt Underwood and Brian Anderson.

It's actually a pretty insigtful show and Underwood doesn't just shill for the club.

It was in this forum that Shapiro intimated that there was a chance that Garko goes back to Buffalo in 2007.

by The DiaTriber on Nov 28, 2006 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I no longer live in Cleveland, but still read the PD everyday and when i am visiting, listen to the radio.  I am convinced that the town as a whole has embraced the "most tortured sports town" label and thus only responds to idiots who have nothing of substance to say, but complain incessantly about how poorly things are run.

by dvd1204 on Nov 28, 2006 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Hmmm, reminds me of someone around here...now who was that...
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 28, 2006 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Rosenthal chimes in with this little nugget:

"Before reaching terms with free-agent outfielder David Dellucci, the Indians thought they had a deal with Frank Catalanotto, only to get trumped by the Rangers' last-minute offer. Dellucci, 33, offers more power than Catalanotto, 32, and is a better defender. Catalanotto is a better contact hitter and would have fit nicely as the Indians' No. 2 hitter."

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 29, 2006 12:09 AM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Wow; if Dellucci is a better defender than the Cat...

by jdudas on Nov 29, 2006 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I have not seen a lot of Catalanotto in the outfield but did watch Dellucci for two years he is average at best not as good as Michaels, But a hell of a lot better than Lee don't know what Houston is going to do with him he is a DH.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 29, 2006 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I watched a lot of Cat playing for the Jays the last couple of years.  Hes not the greatest fielder, but he rarely seems to make mistakes.  The Jays seemed to constantly take him out of the lineup for Reed Johnson or Alex Rios late in games for defensive purposes.

by Brandini on Nov 30, 2006 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

5 outfielders?
just a thought: if the indians move franky back to buffalo and don't deal any of the other outfielders, do you think they'll use a dellucci/michaels platoon in left and a choo/blake platoon in right? that would require (by which i mean facilitate) dumping luna from the 25-man. say what you will: it's one way to approximate having a better outfield, and keeping blake on the roster somewhat lessens the need to carry two utility infielders.

by fleerdon on Nov 29, 2006 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

Re: 5 outfielders?
Blake hits RHP better than LHP
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 29, 2006 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: 5 outfielders?
blake's R/L split last year:

vs RHP: .286/.352/.446, BB/K: 28/70
vs LHP: .272/.366/.561, BB/K: 17/23

casey hit 9 HR in 287 ABs against RHP (.031HR/AB); he hit 10 HR in 114 ABs against LHP (.088HR/AB).

this isn't to say that blake is incompetent against RHP, but the -.129 OPS vs. RHP suggests he hit LHP harder and to greater effect. can we agree that his rate numbers, particularly OBP, would benefit at least marginally from seeing fewer righties? the question becomes whether choo would be able to outproduce blake's line against RHP, and i submit that the evidence tends toward yes.

choo vs. RHP: .281/.361/.475, BB/K: 17/43

by fleerdon on Nov 29, 2006 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: 5 outfielders?
was that last year stats or his average for his career?
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 29, 2006 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: 5 outfielders?
I think it's unlikely the Tribe carry 2 utility IF and that Blake may evolve into that "super-utility" guy.

Whether that means that Luna or Inglett doesn't factor into the 2007 plans shouldn't be too much of a concern at this point in the off-season.  But one of them is unlikely to start 2007 on the 25-man.

by The DiaTriber on Nov 29, 2006 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Ooops!  I was just thinking: wasn't it great when we had Ramirez, Belle and Lofton in the outfield.  We just didn't know how great it was.

by mauichuck on Nov 29, 2006 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
not to mention Giles, Burnitz, and Dave Roberts in the system.  amazing.  In '95 I felt sorry for Wayne Kirby, who might had a decent career if he wasn't blown away by the other guys.

I remember being at one of Lofton's first games and thinking to myself, "wow, this guy's a lot like Alex Cole---but even better"

by homelytourist on Nov 29, 2006 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Alex Cole... wow
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Nov 29, 2006 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I believe any metion of Alex Cole has to include a reference to this box score.  August 1, 1990: the official kickoff ceremony for the short-lived "Coleball" experiment.  This was the day Alex Cole set the Indians club record with 5 steals in a game (since tied by Kenny Lofton).  And yes, for those complaining about our current team, Cole actually had the 2nd highest OPS in that lineup (only behind Brook Jacoby), ahead of such greats as Mitch Webster, Jeff Manto, and Tom Brookens.  Oy.

by APV on Nov 30, 2006 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Sheldon Ocker:

"If it's any comfort, the Indians' marketing department is likely to produce a Dellucci bobblehead that probably will bring at least six bucks on eBay."

I've never seen this guy, but I picture someone resembling Andy Rooney.

by BoDiaz1974 on Nov 30, 2006 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
Just for fun, the Indians marketing department should produce a bobblehead of Shocker.  I'll give it a decent burial, I promise, after completing any and all Voodoo ceremonial punishments I can find via Google.

by MTF on Nov 30, 2006 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
If you go to the page containing his column on ohio.com, they have a byline picture of him.  It's better than Andy Rooney.  Picture the crazy guy down the block who's constantly having bags of poop lit on fire on his porch and running out in his underwear yelling at you "goddamn kids"

Seriously.

by APV on Nov 30, 2006 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
He appears to have a green fungus of some sort growing on his head... How strange.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 30, 2006 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
It is indeed a wierd picture.  He looks like a mole too.  A mole with green fungus on his head.

by MTF on Dec 1, 2006 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
I just can't believe that anyone would choose to have a picture of themselves like that and not demand a new picture be taken.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 1, 2006 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
LOL.  Yes, I really did laugh out loud.

by homelytourist on Nov 30, 2006 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: My Thoughts
That picture explains so much, I can't even put it into words.

by Brick. on Nov 30, 2006 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

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