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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3

Recap
Box Score
Win Probability Added @ Fangraphs



Update: Courtesy of SporTech Matter, some pictures from the game.

Highest WPA:

David Dellucci .287
Trot Nixon .092
Tom Mastny .090

Lowest WPA:

Cliff Lee (as pitcher) -.124
Travis Hafner -.059
Cliff Lee (as hitter) -.044

This was an ugly game. Real ugly. The Indians took advantage of horrendously bad defense by Florida and a laughably bad judgment call by the home plate umpire to score six runs in the sixth inning.

Here's a play-by-play, but you had to watch the game to get the full traveshamockery of it all:

Top 6th (Kim pitching)

V. Martinez struck out swinging

At this point, I was aimlessly switching channels between pitches. The Indians hadn't scored a run since Monday in Cleveland, and the offense was making Kim look dominant. The Martinez strikeout was Kim's eighth of the night. His previous high was five.

Travis Hafner singled to right

Jeff Albert's guest post earlier this week brought up a great point; Hafner simply isn't hitting the ball in the air. This graph shows a marked change in the distribution of balls in play. Just about half of the balls he hits are on the ground.

J. Peralta doubled to deep right, T. Hafner to third

Jhonny's quietly regained his 2005 form. The key to him getting pitches to hit? He's back to around league average in BB/K ratio. Is it the surgery, or just an adjustment? Whatever the case, he's back as an offensive force.

T. Nixon safe at first on D. Uggla's throwing error, T. Hafner and J. Peralta scored, T. Nixon to second

This is where things got bizarre. I thought Nixon should have been credited for a hit, because Uggla made a pretty good play just to get to the ball, but his throw is what allowed two runs to score. You know, now that I think about it, even the scorer had an off night.

M. Rouse safe at first on J. Hermida's fielding error, T. Nixon to third, M. Rouse to second

This one goes into the dumb error category. Hermida had to run in to catch Rouse's bloop, but there's simply no excuse for a major-leaguer to drop a ball that catchable. Rouse, who's doing the little things because that's all that's keeping him in the majors, hustled to second on the play.

R. Garko hit for C. Lee
R. Garko grounded out to second, T. Nixon scored, M. Rouse to third

Liked the move, because Lee had thrown 91 pitches, was actually fortunate to have lasted this far, and the back end of the bullpen was pretty rested. With one out, all Garko need to do was to put the ball on the ground to tie the game, as the Marlins had the infield back. He did it, and the Indians knotted the score at three.

T. Tankersley relieved B. Kim

With two outs, the Marlins brought in their LOOGY to face Sizemore. Smart move, as Sizemore has a rather large platoon split, and left-handers have been feasting on Kim.

G. Sizemore hit by pitch (Tankersley ejected)

Previously, home plate umpire Brian Knight warned both benches after Lee hit Miguel Cabrera. But this ejection was totally uncalled for. Sizemore was down in the count 0-2, and though the pitch hit Sizemore in the shoulder, there was little evidence that the beaning was intentional. Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez was automatically ejected, and 1B Aaron Boone was tossed after (understandably) sticking up for his pitcher.

J. Wood at first
L. Gardner relieved T. Tankersley

My first response when Gardner entered the game was "who?" Gardner made his MLB debut in 2002 with Tampa, pitching 13.1 nondescript innings. He got another shot with Tampa in 2005, but lasted only 7.1 innings. He's pitched 27.2 innings with the Marlins this year, and left-handers were hitting .338/.403/.431 against him. David Dellucci has been struggling, but why tempt fate?

D. Dellucci homered to deep right, M. Rouse and G. Sizemore scored

And there's the game. Mike Rouse made a tremendous play in throwing out Matt Treanor in a play at the plate, Travis Hafner got a flyball infield single, leading to another run, but the sixth inning was where all the action was.

Cliff actually got the win. He's 3-4, which means he's one win away from being an average pitcher again.

Next Up: Jason Stanford's back! Stanford vs. Willis, 7:05 PM

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Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
a small piece of perspective, if i may.  pretend the indians were the team described above all those bad things happening to and they were the ones that lost the ugly game tonight.  there'd be some livid posts around here, some calling for the end of the world.  sure the indians have lost some tough games, especially lately, but they'll win their fair share as well.  things balance out in baseball over 162 games.  sometimes a-rod takes borowski deep, sometimes todd jones gives up a 6-pack to the indians.  it's one of the things that's so great, albiet frustrating, about baseball in my opinion.  big win, lets go beat up some dontrelle tomorrow!

by Brick. on Jun 14, 2007 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Amen
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Amen, also.
NAIA: We're better than you and we don't even get money under the table.

by Brad D on Jun 14, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I still wish CC was starting on three days' rest.

by nickjs21 on Jun 14, 2007 7:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Who got sent out for Stanford?  Miller?

Interesting that Wedge intimated in the linked article that Stanford will stay in the Tribe bullpen when Westbrook returns, giving them 3 LHP.

Do I smell a DFA for Hernandez?

by The DiaTriber on Jun 14, 2007 8:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Yeah, Miller just got optioned out (per this):

Cleveland Indians
Purchased the contract of LHP Jason Stanford from the Triple-A Buffalo and optioned RHP Matt Miller to Buffalo.

Which means it'll be 10 days before we see him again. Also noted while I was looking for transaction information, the Dodgers just canned Eddie Murray as their hitting coach.

by zempf on Jun 14, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Eddie Murray is having problems holding down a job;  most coaches get dropped at the end of the season, but he has been dropped before mid-season 2 of the last 3 years.  At 51, is he out of coaching or will somebody else take a chance on him?

by palcal on Jun 14, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I think we should hire him for a couple of days, and then fire him again.  I bet our hitting would skyrocket right afterwards and carry on for the rest of the year.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 14, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
This Marlins team is a pretty scary team. They can tag 6 runs on you and make it look effortless. Miguel Cabrera, really reminds me of a young Manny Ramirez. Unflappable at the plate and a guy who can get hot and put together ungodly numbers for 3 straight weeks.

Hopefully, we can steal another game away today. Next will be Atlanta, a team that is also in a similar mini-tailspin like the Tribe. Should be interesting to see who breaks out of their funk at the other team's expense.

by Toxicadam on Jun 14, 2007 8:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Except young Manny was skinny. Miguel is apparently on the Bartolo Colon diet.
I punched Ichiro in the face. No lie.

by Brad D on Jun 14, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Manny is an incredible player. One of the best outfielders ever.

I think Miguel is better. It's scary.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Actually I think this should read: "One of the best HITTING outfielders ever". His defense has been lackadaisical at best. He has an arm, but usually has no clue on routes, etc. His D would probably drop him in a lot of comparisons to Willie, Dimaggio, etc.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
So what, you consider defense and it drops him to top 20 as opposed to top 15? His hitting is so good that he's a great outfielder as long as he doesn't stand totally still in left.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Hey I love Manny as much as the next guy, but the guy is basically a skillet out there. If he could handle the transition to DH, he'd be the best ever at it, but he can't sit around for innings at a time like Hafner can.

He may end up with Top 5-10 hitting numbers all time, but he would never pass guys who had amazing careers and played great D. But that's just me.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I never thought Manny's D is as bad as everyone says it is. Seems he's improved quite a bit since he left Cleveland, and he has a great arm.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
His D has improved because there is no LF in Boston. He doesn't have to move all that much. He has a plus arm, but he's always been pretty brutal at tracking flies (watch the route he took last nite against Colorado, straight right rather than angled to the corner). His speed is average, but I rarely have seen him dive for a catch.

HEck, I imagine he rarely knows how many outs there are. He just comes in when everyone else does. He'd rather just hit, which is why it is perplexing why he doesn't make a good DH.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Heck, I imagine he rarely knows how many outs there are. He just comes in when everyone else does.

That made me lol... so true. But as to why he isn't DHing, why DH Manny when you have Ortiz? I think Ortiz would be more of a liability at first than Manny is in the outfield.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Oh I know Ortiz is more of skillet in the field. But I recall Manny didn't hit all that well when he DHed for us and in the times he's done it for Boston. But I don't have the numbers to back that claim up. I thought I read that he was too antsy or something when he DHed.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
You can see his numbers as a DH if you scroll down here

I've heard the same thing about Manny and commentators parrot it all the time. Like a lot of these kind of things, however, it's not really very true. His OPS is only 27 points lower as a DH as compared to LF.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Thx, maybe it was an article way back when that clouded my memory.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I think it's just another case of vague misinformation being repeated over and over. I've heard it mentioned a lot of times on broadcasts and I'm pretty sure I've read Manny quoted as disliking it.

Combine it being repeated enough with Manny substantiating it and you've got a classic case of something Jeff Brantley will repeat till he dies while no one bothers to look up the numbers.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
If manny DHed, how would he pee behind the green monster during an inning?
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I'm not saying he's going to be the best OF ever. I'm just saying "one of the greatest" doesn't have to mean better than Willie Mays. It just means among the greatest. And, even with defense accounted, I think he's one of the greatest ever.

It doesn't appear you disagree. I don't really understand why you took issue with the comment.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Well you did say "One of the best outfielders ever" in original comment. But we'll drop it ;)

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
But isn't a top 20 outfielder one of the best outfielders ever? I accidentally subsituted greatest for best, but is there really any difference?

Top 20 is one of the best ever if there have been like, 10,000 outfielders or whatever.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Ok, I just watched the condensed game. Some thoughts:

1-BYK showing up the ump about that bunt strikeout is one of the funniest things I've seen in baseball, maybe ever.

2-Is anyone else vaguely encouraged by Clifton Phifer Lee? He's throwing the curve again (he was in Cinci too) and he's got a decent feel for it, it appears. He got stung by GAB last time out and last night (like in GAB as well) got hurt by his control.

I think (read: hope) Cliff can get his control straightened out-he's been able to do it in the past. The fact that his strikeouts are going up and his curve is back at least makes him look like a mid-4's ERA starter.

So I guess that's my point. He looks ok again.

3-FGutz looks alright hitting the ball.

4-J-H-O-N-N-Y. Doubles!

5-Hopefully we've weathered Mastny's little hiccup and he's back on track. He looked great in the little bits I saw.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Anybody else think that Cliff lost his curve ball as they wanted him to learn a slider this spring? I've heard that it is difficult to throw both, and maybe this led to his not throwing either (or an ineffective slider). I just don't understand an established major leaguer should be asked to learn a new pitch in spring training. Paul Byrd knows his craft and can try to learn a new pitch, but Cliff has always had bouts of struggling with command.  

by oxforddave on Jun 14, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Is anyone else vaguely encouraged by Clifton Phifer Lee?

Yep, that would be me.  Frankly, I don't get all of the Lee-hating going on.  Here's a guy who's had a decent track record, is only a month removed from the DL and seems to be headed in the right direction.

It's puzzling that posters on LGT are tolerant of Pronk's considerable drop off in power, but are constantly attacking Lee.  

Since I think I can see Lee's problem - inconsistant location whereas I have no idea what's wrong with Hafner - my gut tells me that Lee will probably return to near '06 form before Pronk does.  Hopefully, both will be back on track after the All-Star break.

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 14, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
It's puzzling that posters on LGT are tolerant of Pronk's considerable drop off in power, but are constantly attacking Lee.

Pronk is still a well above-average hitter -- still above-average among 1B/DH in fact -- despite a terrible slump.  That his nubmers could be so far down, while still being a very good hitter, just shows how ridiculous his numbers have been the last few years.

I'm not sure where you get Lee "headed in the right direction."  Last month he had a three-game stretch with a 3.15 ERA.  Since then, the very best thing you can say about him is that he just had a two-game stretch with a 5.73 ERA -- i.e., the best you can say about him is that lately, he's just been bad rather than unbelievably bad.

Since I think I can see Lee's problem - inconsistant location whereas I have no idea what's wrong with Hafner - my gut tells me that Lee will probably return to near '06 form before Pronk does.

I'm not sure if this was a joke, but FWIW, it sounds like an ironic riff on Steve Phillips.  For that matter, Lee's '06 form was also a source of aggravation, and if the best he can do is to come "near" it, he should just be demoted now.

And by "now" I actually mean "once we have someone else healthy enough to start."

by Jay on Jun 14, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
All right, we'll talk again after the All-Star break.  The smart money would be on you - Pronk starts hitting at a .300 clip and averaging a HR per 12 ABs while Lee gets pulled out of the rotation.  But I think that Hafner will continue hitting around .260 with a one HR per 20 ABs while Lee lowers his ERA to about 4.50.  

I'm in New Jersey now.  Wanna bet a cold beer on this one?

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 15, 2007 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Okay, but I'm not giving you my beer, I'm buying you your own.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
He's 3-4, which means he's one win away from being an average pitcher again.

I wish.  Lee sure doesn't strike me as one win away from being average, only very slightly less stinko than he was before one more win.

While I'm very optimistic about our team's chances this year for the postseason, Lee's performances don't get me very enthused.

by MTF on Jun 14, 2007 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I guessed it was; in my response I was simply being wistful.  Far too often I listen to his starts while wishing Lee were pitching for someone else.

by MTF on Jun 14, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
My problem with Lee is that he seems to "give in" when he gets baserunners on. There's no evidence of grittiness like Byrd or Sabathia have when they get baserunners. Maybe that is due to a lack of strikeouts, lack of faith in a premium pitch or just bad luck, but when Cliff gets a guy on second base with no outs .. it seems like 9/10 that guy is going to score.

To be honest, I would like to see Lee moved into the long relief role. This team needs a guy who can play the role of a Terry Mulholland from a few years back.

by Toxicadam on Jun 14, 2007 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Why on earth would we send Miller back to AAA? What a dumb move.

by Joe. on Jun 14, 2007 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I hate seeing him get sent down too, but who else were we gonna ax?

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Because we've already used his option for the year and we had to open up a spot on the ML roster?

What's the big deal?

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
That's not how this works. You have to pick someone else to send down for ten days.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I love it when you tell 'em how it works.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
To add Stanford to the 25, somebody had to be moved. Our options included one of the OF (Nixon, Michaels, Dellucci, or Gutz - Gutz is the only one with options), Rouse (who does not have options left); either of those would have left the bench one man short and who wants to see Nixon out there more often if Gutz goes back down?

The only other option is one of the pitchers: Fultz, Hernandez, Mastny, Miller, Perez. Fultz and Henandez are not getting cut yet, so its between Miller, Mastny and Perez. Take your pick.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
I like the pictures, that's a new feature.  Although I don't get the one of the little yellow cage.  Or is it a statue of some bronze flags?  I think it was misfiled.

by dgcambridge on Jun 15, 2007 2:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Just a total misfile, I'm sure.

On a related note was anyone watching (through Extra Innings) the Marlins broadcast last night? They were interviewing players from the '97 team and then during the rain delay, showing highlights of the series. Time does not heal all wounds.....

by zigsmom on Jun 15, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Yeah, it was pretty gross.

I'm not mad about it, they were doing a local broadcast, and it is the 10th anniversary of that team.  But it was gross.

Too much to hope that EI could have things like this in mind when choosing broadcasts.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Sixty-Four: Indians 7, Marlins 3
Oh well. We had an STO broadcast Wednesday.

At least Atlanta is coming to Cleveland, so even if they want to celebrate their 12th anniversary, they won't do it on the road.

by zigsmom on Jun 15, 2007 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

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