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More Albert Belle Bashing...

From Teddy Greenstein of the Chicago Tribune:

I saw him curse at reporters. Saw him react callously after accidentally flinging a bat into the stands that bloodied the face of a 10-year-old girl. Saw him pile up meaningless stats before sparse crowds. Saw his teammates and coaches revile him.

So who is this guy talking about? Ted Williams? Jeff Kent? No, of course he's talking about Albert Belle, everybody's favorite bogeyman.

These are the words of a reporter who covered Albert Belle in 1998. And while I certainly do not deny that Belle was a first-class jerk, this type of pontificating is something that really irks me. The Hall of Fame is not entirely made up of good citizens, although there certainly are some there. It is made up of exceptional baseball players, who through their play on the field, have been inducted for perpetuity. Being a jerk does not remove oneself from Hall of Fame eligibility.

Of course, Greenstein didn't stop there:

The Hall of Fame voting process has become politicized, they say. If you're a baseball writer who takes into account a player's off-the-field behavior, you're superficial and petty for holding a grudge.

What a crock that is. Character counts. If it didn't, Pete Rose would be adding "HOF" to all those autographs he hawks

No, Mr. Greenstein, Rose is not in the Hall of Fame because he bet on baseball, something that carries with it a lifetime ban. If Rose were eligible, he'd already be in the Hall.

I also suppose that Kirby Puckett, who was just as marginal a candidate as Belle should have his plaque taken out because of his recent behavior?

Don't worry, there's more:

Even as a player, Belle did nothing to warrant enshrinement. He was a pedestrian fielder who was pulled from games for not hustling to first base.
Belle put up giant numbers with the Sox in '98, finishing with 49 bombs, 152 RBIs and a .328 average. But he did nothing until June, when the Sox were already 15 games under .500.

But I suppose he'll have no problem lauding Jim Thome, who hit all those home runs in 2002 after the Indians were out of the race. (Note: I'm not ripping on Thome, just making a point).

Listen, I have no problem with voters who won't vote for Belle because his career was so short. But I do have a problem with these blowhard journalists who appoint themselves the arbiters of morality by withholding votes from players they didn't like.

0 recs | Comment 22 comments

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Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Can you recall Belle ever being pulled for not hustling?  I remember him as a good baserunner (and not a bad fielder, also).

Is a player not supposed to play well in front of sparse crowds?  In any case, it didn't happen in Cleveland; that's Chicago's problem!

by FranklinScott on Jan 16, 2006 2:33 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Also, on June 1st, 1998, Belle's numbers were .264-.346-.517 and 11 HR with 41 RBI.  (from Baseball Musings' day by day thing)

by FranklinScott on Jan 16, 2006 2:41 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
I think I do remembe Hargrove benching him with the Orioles once for not running out a play down to first, but this may have had as much to do with Belle's gimpy hips as with Belle being a non-hustler.

Belle is a borderline case to me for the Hall of Fame due to the brevity of his career and the fact that I'm not really sure how much weight to attach to his numbers during his great run due to general inflation of offensive stats during the period.  Are his 6 years as good as Koufax's 6?  I'm not sure.  It doesn't help his case with the writers now that the writers of eleven years ago were such a bunch of self-centered babies they took an MVP from him.

by victorcruz on Jan 17, 2006 3:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Belle DID get sent back to the minors by Mike Hargrove after not running out a ground ball early in his career.  I'm thinking either '89 or '90.  This is back when he went by the name 'Joey'.  After the Indians sent him through some anger management - attitude adjustment - alcohol treatment classes he came back and said that he would be called Albert.

Belle was good, but he was no Ty Cobb.  Both were incredible jerks but Cobb's stats were so great that they had to put him in the HOF.  

by SpringTrainingFun on Jan 17, 2006 4:55 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
That's not a fair comparison. Cobb is an elite HOFer, and most legitimate inductees don't measure up to that standard.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 10:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Cobb was by all accounts a first class jerk.  Belle was pretty much the same.  In the sense that both were idiots, and both were baseball players, and one is in the HOF and the other is eligible, I'd say it's a fair comparison.  In no way am I implying that Belle is anywhere close to Cobb's talent.

That said, if Puckett would have acted like Belle during his playing career, it's unlikely that he would have been elected.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jan 17, 2006 10:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
That said, if Puckett would have acted like Belle during his playing career, it's unlikely that he would have been elected.

This is exactly my problem. One of the reasons why Puckett snuck into the Hall is because he was perceived to be "a nice guy," always with a smile on his face, always friendly to the media. Yes, character should count for something, but I think it should be a relatively small part of the picture.

Contrast him with Eddie Murray, who didn't talk to the media, but certainly had a much better resume. He received 85% of the vote, while Puckett received 82%.

by Ryan on Jan 17, 2006 2:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Yeah, but there's first-ballot nonsense in there, too, and "expectations" nonsense. Lots of guys probably voted against Murray because they knew he'd get in anyway, and it was their one chance to say, "Screw that guy." If the HOF required a 90 percent vote, Murray would have made it in the second year, possibly in the first.

And Puckett is a borderline case, swayed by personality/character issues. He wasn't a clear-cut non-HOFer, just as it would be hard to find a clear-cut HOFer excluded for those reasons. It only becomes an issue in borderline cases, and it seems to me that the voters are acting within the letter and spirit of the rules in those cases.

Maybe what really bugs you is that the writers themselves are such biased jerks, in no position to be passing judgment on the character of the players and, as often as not, not even on their on-field achievements. But character is part of the criteria, and the writers have interpreted it as a relatively small part, and any human judgment on character is going to be imperfect.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 7:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Maybe what really bugs you is that the writers themselves are such biased jerks, in no position to be passing judgment on the character of the players and, as often as not, not even on their on-field achievements.

Partly. I understand that the HOF voting system is going to be inherantly flawed because humans are the ones casting votes. I understand that there should be some room for non-baseball qualities (or iniquities) in the decision process. But the whole "I hated the guy, so screw him" line of thinking is what really bugs me. It's like the voters are finally getting back at the players for ignoring or insulting them from years past.

But that's what you get when the people that vote for the Hall of Fame get to know the players off the field.

Like I said before, wait until Mark McGwire goes on the ballot...at least Belle was clear of all the steroid rumors.

by Ryan on Jan 17, 2006 11:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
I wouldn't say "clear" of them. He was clear of specific allegations, but one has to allow that there is a reasonable chance Belle used steroids at some point, given his prolific power and competitiveness ... and the corked bat incident shows he's willing to cheat a little.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 11:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Correction:  I thought it was Hargrove but it must have been John McNamara as Hargrove did not become manager until '91.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jan 17, 2006 4:58 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
IMO, character DOES count when considering HOF.  Can you imagine ever voting for Ron Artest or the RP from Texas who threw a chair into the stands? They'd never get my vote.  As far as Kirby P. or a guy like O.J. Simpson is concerned, their transgressions(convicted or not) occured after HOF induction and make HOF removal maybe unwarranted.  
Belle's surly attitude(juice?) endeared him to no one and I never missed him when he left the Tribe.  As an die-hard LSU fan, I had held great hopes for him and was thrilled when he was drafted.  But face it, he was a JERK.  His #'s can't overshadow his character...or lack of.
With guys like this, and especially a Pete Rose, you have to consider the feelings his teammates and those he would share the Hall of Fame with. Lowering the standards(I consider character a standard) for induction affects all who entered before.  Perhaps their votes should count most of all.  

by Chiefroy on Jan 17, 2006 5:32 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
I'm not going to go so far as to defend Bell's character but how does one "act callously" after accidentally hitting a girl in the stands? Was he laughing? Did someone ask him how he felt about the incident? It bothers me when columnists toss things like that out there as if they stand on their own. I could write that Teddy Greenstein acted callously after witnessing a car accident and it would have just as much validity.

by Fios on Jan 17, 2006 9:05 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

Bottom line, voters are entitled to consider whether a guy was a jerk.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 10:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Sure they are, but it's gotten to the point where the "character" part overshadows everything else. Albert Belle's an extreme example, but given the vindictiveness of this guy, I don't think he'd be voting for him even if he had hit 800 home runs.

I think you'll be seeing this with Mark McGwire next year. When Jeff Kent comes up for induction, will there be writers who won't vote for him just because he's a jerk? Absolutely. That's my problem.

by Ryan on Jan 17, 2006 11:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
It may overshadow in perception and news coverage, but I don't think it overshadows the actual voting. I don't think you could find a precedent where a clear-cut HOFer by the numbers was denied election because of his personality. In fact, I'm not sure you could find even the borderline case where a guy was denied.

Based on the voting rules, I don't think you can argue with personality playing a factor where the statistics are borderline. (You can disagree with the rules, but you can't say that the writers are mis-applying them.) And I just don't see any evidence to the contrary.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 12:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
I'm not questioning whether character can be considered, I don't think Bell deserves to be in the HOF. I am simply taking issue with vague character attacks of the kind sports columnists specialize in. They aren't held accountable for those kinds of things and they should be.

by Fios on Jan 17, 2006 10:54 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
We can definitely agree that sports columnists as a group are utter idiots.

by Jay on Jan 17, 2006 11:19 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
Well, thanks to the internet, now we ALL have a chance to be utter idiots!
Just a thought... No one held greater contempt for sportswriters than old Lefty, Steve Carlton.

Induction Information
Elected to Hall of Fame by Baseball Writers in 1994, Player
436 votes on 455 ballots   95.82%

They obviously didn't hold it against him.
In checking his bio, I noticed that we share a birthday!

by Chiefroy on Jan 18, 2006 6:16 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
FYI - Bob Ryan has an article here - http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/01/18/this_guy_sure_played_a_mean_game_of_baseba ll/?page=full - detailing Teddy Greenstein's comments, along with the votes and comments of the Cleveland sports writers.  Very good read for their perspective.

Ocker - no
Hoynes - no
Pluto - yes

I find it interesting that while Ocker admits Belle was a jerk, he says he didn't vote for Albert based on longevity.  Hoynes straight up says it was Albert's personality - ''His numbers were good," Hoynes says. ''I thought if he played one or two more years at a high level, I'd have to vote for him. But he didn't. He was a bad guy. And what goes around comes around."

And Pluto, who is without question a genuinely nice person, ignored Albert's personality completely and voted yes on the numbers alone.

(BTW, Ryan doesn't let the column end without his own dig at Albert).

by mkwng on Jan 19, 2006 3:57 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
I guess that's a pretty good cross-section of the schools of thought on Albert:

(1) The writer who will vote against him because he thinks he wasn't good enough (Ocker)

(2) The writer who will look past the character issues and vote for him (Pluto)

(3) The writer who will vote against him largely because of the character issues (Hoynes)

by Ryan on Jan 19, 2006 6:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: More Albert Belle Bashing...
And for me, a pretty accurate ranking of how much I enjoy reading each columnist (Pluto, Ocker, Hoynes).

by mkwng on Jan 19, 2006 6:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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