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Free Royals and dodged bullets

Royals pitchers Odalis Perez and David Riske will hit the market as free agents next week.

Perez was several free agent starters the Indians pursued prior to the 2005 season.  He ended up signing a three-year, $24 million deal with the Dodgers, a deal that can fairly be called a disaster for them.  He was traded to the Royals in mid-2006, but the Dodgers continued to pay most of his salary.  The Indians also pursued Jon Lieber and Matt Clement that offseason, and they too went on to sign three-year deals in the $25 million range with the Phillies and Red Sox respectively.  Lieber's deal ends up looking the best, but that ain't saying much.

Shut out of the primary market, the Indians ended up taking a flier on the recently rehabbed Kevin Millwood for the 2005 season, replacing him with Paul Byrd for the next two seasons, at a total cost of $21 million.  While the Indians deserve credit for two smart contracts that both worked out, it's also fair to say they dodged a few bullets by losing the bidding for the first three.

As for Riske, he's coming off a stellar year, and his contract allowed him to convert a 2008 team option into a player option if he appeared in 60 games, which he reached with ease.  Drafted and developed by the Indians, he was coming off an excellent three-year run when he was thrown into the Crisp-Marte trade in January 2006 -- and some of us never have figured out how the Indians could have preferred Guillermo Mota to him.  Riske went on the DL almost immediately after joining Boston last April and was soon traded to the White Sox, where he waited out free agency.

This season, he struggled out of the gate with a 6.97 ERA in April, but he rebounded with 18 straight scoreless appearances from May 1 through June 8, and he finished strong with a 2.30 from that point on.  Riske can be a confusing pitcher, never that many strikeouts, not exceptional at avoiding free passes and somewhat prone to the long ball.  Yet he's undeniably effective at inducing bad contact, allowing only a .256 BABIP over the past five seasons, and he's always handled lefties well.

We've never really gotten a straight answer from the Indians on Riske, only an oft-repeated rumor that Wedge didn't trust him.  Even so, given the organization's new religion on bullpen depth, you would think that the Indians wouldn't pass up an opportunity to get back a quality reliever.  Then again, Riske seems like exactly the kind of guy the Yankees like to give $15 million deals to.

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Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I think your last sentence is telling.  Riske would be nice for bullpen depth, but there will be a lot of teams willing to throw more money at him.  

by nickjs21 on Oct 31, 2007 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I always liked Riske more than Wedge did. Bring him back, if the price is right.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 31, 2007 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Anyone care to shed a little light on the "Wedge didn't trust him" rumor? I hadn't heard that before.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I don't know if it's a rumor as much as just an assumption. When Riske was here, even when he was pitching well, Wedge would use him in like the sixth inning. I don't think anyone ever understood why Wedge refused to use him in high-leverage situations, as he's been a solid reliever for awhile now.

That being said, he'll be a pretty poor investment this offseason since he's going to get a three year deal, and I don't think we'll be too interested in a bidding war with the Orioles, Yankees, Mets, and whoever else wants to buy a bullpen.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 31, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I think it all goes back to 2004, where he started the year as the closer, with dramatic results in the first few games.  Dramatic as in Carmona-as-closer results.  I believe he had a newborn child with severe health problems at the time.  Then he was used in early innings for a while, before being repromoted to closer in July.  He blew a couple of saves and then was out of the role again.  Of course, his numbers for the year looked OK.

In 2005, he again wasn't the closer, and my impression was that Wedge was careful with his use.  I know "holds" is far from the most useful stat, but the fact that Riske pitched in 58 games and had 0 holds (1 save) supports that impression.  Again, his overall numbers were fine.

by dgcambridge on Oct 31, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Jay, re: preferring Mota over Riske...

I don't think it's necessarily true that Shapiro and the front office thought Mota > Riske. If Wedge didn't trust Riske, there was no point in keeping him, and I always assumed that's why the swap was made (since it's not common to see players of the same position traded for each other). I mean, you could have Albert Pujols on your bench, but if your manager only uses him as a pinch hitter, it's probably smart to trade him for 90% of his value and replace him with someone your manager will actually play. Plus, I think I remember someone from the FO saying they wanted more power/strikeouts out of the bullpen (though don't hold me to that).

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 31, 2007 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Actually I'd probably fire the manager.

by hans on Oct 31, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Jay, this particular line from the diary you linked to was especially prescient:

"I for one have a sinking feeling that four months from now, we're going to be missing Rhodes more than Crisp."

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Everytime Riske faced us he looked like crap. In fact, looking at his splits the White Sox and the Tigers have lit him up too.

by Toxicadam on Oct 31, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Well, not every time, just three times.  He had five scoreless appearances in the first half and three more later in the season -- no earned runs, no unearned runs, no inherited runs.

Sort of a good news/bad news thing, though, isn't it?  The last five months, Riske had a 5.68 ERA against the Indians, 1.18 against everybody else.

by Jay on Oct 31, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
On the topic of free agent pitchers, the Indians are one of the teams Curt Schilling would consider joining.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3087824

I used to really like him, back in his Phillies days, because I love that workhorse demeanor, but especially after this postseason, I could care less about him and don't feel the need to bring in an old, expensive attention whore.

LeCavs.com!
We never surrender!

by Matt in LA on Oct 31, 2007 1:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
i think it would be cool if we could post this in every single diary.

Also!  FREE JASON BAY!

by Brick. on Oct 31, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Also!

If we could bring in Bay and Schilling, imagine the effect it would have on signing A-Rod!

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
...but once we trade for Wright, i'm not sure we have room at 3B.

by jeremy @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 31, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Who cares? We just move A-Rod to 2B after we flip Barfield and Garko for Griffey and move Peralta to 1B!
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
don't be ridiculous. Peralta's going to Milwaukee in the Fielder trade.

by jeremy @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 31, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Drools.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Oct 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
No no no. Part of the Griffey trade is aqcuiring and locking up his son at league minimum through the first four year of his major league eligibility.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I think Linebrink is more in line to get that kind of Yankee money you allude to. His numbers are more reliable/consistent than Riske.

Although Riske's numbers are against AL hitting, if you buy into the talent disparity between the two leagues.

by Toxicadam on Oct 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Riske's numbers are plenty consistent by reliever standards.

Linebrink's numbers also were in big ol' pitcher's parks.

by Jay on Oct 31, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Linebrink's numbers are also in the National League.
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Oct 31, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Do National League relievers deserve to be subjected to the same mockery as National League starting pitchers since they usually don't get the pleasure of facing the pitcher? Granted an NL PH still isn't likely to be of the same standards as an AL PH, but I still think NL relievers deserve at least more credit than their starting counterparts.

by supermarioelia on Oct 31, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Actually, there aren't nearly that many pinch hitting opportunities in the AL, unless you're talking about the Twins ;) or interleague games.

by talonk on Oct 31, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Meant to say NL pinch-hitters as compared to your average AL 9-hole player.

by supermarioelia on Oct 31, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
The relievers don't deserve the regular old no-DH stigma, but they do deserve the 21st century NL-sucks-in-general stigma.

by Jay on Oct 31, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
That was exactly what I was thinking, Jay.
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 1, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I always liked Riske and was never really sure why Wedge didn't. I fear he will be priced out of our market but, if not, he is the kind of inclusion that could stabilize the bullpen. Right now, the situation beyond the Circle is sketchy.
I swear, next year is it.

by Brad D on Oct 31, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
What was the question, again?
"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" -- New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 2, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
What's Fultz's contracts status, again?

/lazy

by JulioBernazard on Oct 31, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I think they have a team option, but they don't have to exercise it.  That's one I'd pass on.

by peter m on Oct 31, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
They do have a team option at $1.5 million.  At that price, I'd do it, see if you can't make him better next season.  What else are they going to get for that kind of money?

by Jay on Oct 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
and he was pretty effective right?  i just read somewhere that his lefties' BAA was really good.

Besides, if he tanks, you just RHA him (Roberto Hernandezed for Assignment)

by Brick. on Oct 31, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Enetr the newest LGT-ism:

That guy's so bad, he's gonna get RHA'd soon.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 31, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
that's just for re-tread value signees that bust.

for young players out of options that never lived up to the hype much less show any ability to contribute get FCA'd or JDA'd.

For guys that clash with Wedge and/or the team phillosphy, they get MBA'd or BPA'd.

by Brick. on Oct 31, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
I think Riske wouldn't be a bad addition, especially with a thin market for relievers.  But, he'll command a multi-year deal and may be over-priced.  That said, maybe this is the kind of over-payment you try -- it's not huge bucks and, if you make a mistake, you're a few million down, not 10 or 15 million (see Curt Schilling discussion).  Then again, if Wedge won't use him, what's the point?

by peter m on Oct 31, 2007 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
CHICAGO -- The White Sox declined club options on both outfielder/first baseman Darin Erstad and left-handed reliever Mike Myers

Also, rumors are that the Yankees are in talks with acquiring Joe Crede from the ChiSox.

by Toxicadam on Nov 1, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
damn it. Do you think the Tigers would sign Erstad? I want to keep him in the division on another team.

by hans on Nov 1, 2007 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
We could pay the Tigers to sign him, I guess.

In other news:  Bobby Abreu's $16 million option for next season was exercised Friday by the New York Yankees.

http://kevxml.windstream.net/_1_T5DTO103J6GVYW__wind.main/apnws/story.htm?kcfg=apart&sin=D8SLMKE 00&qcat=sports&ran=26745&feed=ap&top=1

Gator fans have so much in common with Yankee fans. Minus the history and championships, of course.

by gahnki on Nov 2, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
Yeah, I expected the Yanks to exercise that option, they are going to have some spending money (do they ever not have spending money?) now that AROD will likely sign somewhere else.

The key will be if they resign Posada, his production will not be replaced,, they can't go out and sign a better catcher, because there are no better catchers available on the FA market. Could next year be the year the Yanks miss the playoffs? hopefully.

by hans on Nov 2, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
They'll give Posada all the money he wants for that precise reason. The same for Rivera. Then I expect them to make a run at Mike Lowell.
Gator fans have so much in common with Yankee fans. Minus the history and championships, of course.

by gahnki on Nov 2, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
It may turn into a bidding war for Lowell between Boston and NY, and that would be very good for our interests, as it will certainly force one of the teams to sign him to an extended year or two at a high price that will basically leave them with a avg or below avg vet at the end of his contract, too high priced to move and simply stuck on the team.

by hans on Nov 3, 2007 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Free Royals and dodged bullets
See, this actually hightlights the advantages teams like the Red Sox and Yankees have over teams like the Indians.  Sure, Lowelle could flame out and be another $10M a year stiff, but he'd just have a seat next to Pavano ($10M/yr) or Clement ($9.5M/yr) and the Yanks and the Sawx would just keep rollin' and not feel a thing.  

This kinda mistake would cripple the Tribe.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 3, 2007 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

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