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Yankee Fans

In case anyone's hadn't heard yet - I really hate the Yankees.  I've got what they usta call back home Irish amnesia about the NYC club.  That's where you forget everything but the hatred.  This week's play-offs have brought back into sharp focus why I hate them - it's their fans.

I've traveled a bit and have been in close contact with a number of baseball fan bases, LA, Houston, Pittsburg, Denver and now Philly.   Everywhere I've gone there's been differences in detail but not kind.  At the core of each and every one of them is a small boy - alternately hopeful/pessimistic, respectful/irreverent, admiring/disdainful, devoted/indifferent, funny/dreary, but in the end they all love their team unconditionally (kinda).  My time spent on this site and Lookout Landing and Royals Review has only reinforced that impression.

But then there's the Yankee's fans - they are a different breed in and unto themselves.  Bitter, condescending, ignorant without regard for any other baseball team or fanbase.  A quick trip over to Pinstripe Alley will tell you everything you need to know about them.  Bitchy, whiney, crybabies without any respect for themselves or one another.   After almost half a century of listening to those strutting, obnoxious wit-nits belittle my team it's just great listening to them immolate theirs.  

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Re: Yankee Fans
I see what you mean when you say there's no team you'd rather face in the first round.

by nickjs21 on Oct 6, 2007 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
PA is a joke right now. I've never seen a group whine more about something (BUGS!)

If I'm not mistaken we played in the same bug filled environment.

Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32.....Oregon-39 Michigan-7

by gahnki on Oct 6, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm in NYC right now, Chuck, and I'm planning on watching the game at a bar tomorrow night in the heart of darkness.  I can't wait.   I'm gonna get rowdy.

BUGS!!

by homelytourist on Oct 6, 2007 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
My advice: protect yourself at all times and keep your left up.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
It's funny. You claim you have experienced other fan bases, yet you clearly have no perspective. First off, Philadelphia has terrible fans. Ask anyone in NY who is a Mets, Rangers, or Giants fan. And look at the Cubs. They have the most pessimistic, Doomsday crowd ever. They always expect to lose. And the Mets fans... All summer long they wouldn't shutup about how they were the best team in NY. Yankees fans never bitch to Mets fans and most even like the Mets. And the Red Sox, after 2004 EVERYONE is a Red Sox fan. There has never been a bigger bandwagon team. As for teams like KC, the Pirates, the Rockies. No one in these cities cares about their teams until they are in the playoffs. How many Rockies jerseys are there in the stands? None.

All you guys can do is bitch about a large payroll (which helps you guys out by giving you luxury tax money.) I'm glad to see that all of you Indians fans come out and start talking big when you get a two game lead in the ALDS. Yankees fans are always out and showing their pride. No fairweather fans here.

As for Pinstripe Alley, there are an unusual ammount of vocal negative fans who bitch about stupid shit (mostly Cashman and Torre) which is to be expected from an intelligent and passionate fanbase hoping their team makes the best move.

We'll see how you guys handle the Bronx.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Sorry, this is Exhibit#1
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
DJ f'don hits the remix...

CHUCK: Bitter, condescending, ignorant without regard for any other baseball team or fanbase.

SM: How many Rockies jerseys are there in the stands? None.

CHUCK: Bitchy, whiney, crybabies without any respect for themselves or one another.

SM: there are an unusual ammount of vocal negative fans who bitch about stupid shit...Yankees fans are always out and showing their pride.

CHUCK: After almost half a century of listening to those strutting, obnoxious wit-nits belittle my team it's just great listening to them immolate theirs

SM: As for teams like KC, the Pirates, the Rockies. No one in these cities cares about their teams until they are in the playoffs.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
see, its funny, because none of you guys have ANY perspective on this.

No fanbase gets bitched to more than the Yankees. Every single fanbase hates us and bitches to us. So don't talk to me about bitchy. I went through the individual teams because the person I was responding to seemed to think they have better fan bases than the Yankees.

Is anyone here really prepared to say teams like KC, Colorado, or the Pirates have a better fan base than the Yankees? And if any of you have ever met a Cubs fan, I shouldn't have to justify my statement to you about them.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
If you're going to come to an Indians board to lecture me about what a bad baseball fan I am, you can at least have a sense of humor about it.

Chuck doesn't "seem to think" KC has a better fan base than NYY -- he said it pretty explicitly.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Maybe the reason "every single fanbase hates" you is because collectively you display obnoxious, hateful behavior.  Go take your justifications somewhere that people might give a rip.

by woodsmeister on Oct 6, 2007 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
or because we have an absurd amount of championships.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I hope that made you feel about yourself, that you had to gloat about your championships among us poor unfortunates.  Obviously, you needed a boost for your tiny self-esteem.

by woodsmeister on Oct 6, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You are behaving as though you are a fake account created by mauichuck to prove his point. Do yourself a favor and stop.

by Voltaire on Oct 6, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
i'm not even trying to be an asshole. don't you think the reason most people hate the yankees so much is because they have won so much?
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
It just struck me that your comment was constructive. My apologies.

by Voltaire on Oct 6, 2007 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
"i'm not even trying to be an asshole"

I don't know what's come over me, but I'm gonna be charitable and let that one pass.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Actually I have a lot of perspective on this. The reason that most fanbases hate you is because, with some exceptions, though not you, most of you are fair weather, front running, know nothing douchebags. Add in an owner that buys his way out of any trouble and you have the mix for utter distaste from the rest of the sporting world. Until you come down from your ivory tower to live like the rest of us, stop crying. (By that I mean, your payroll is more than 3x ours).

And yes, those teams have a better fan base. Maybe not as big but not nearly as insolent, sports ignorant and self glorifying as the majority of you sycophantic morons. So please, return to your excuses and bitterness and leave those of us over here cheering for our little midwest team alone.

And if anyone hates the Yankees more than Chuck, it is me.

Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 6, 2007 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I can understand some of your complaints, but how can you guys say we are ignorant at all? There is no bigger baseball town than NY. People here know and understand the history of the game better than almost any city. I'm not sure what we're ignorant about.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
That is the typical NY response. How on earth can you make the claim there is no bigger baseball town? That's just an irresponsible boast that cannot possibly be proven. You know, I think that Harveysburg, OH is bigger baseball town. That whole paragraph you wrote is nothing more than one long back patting.

I take Pinstripe Alley as a representative sample of Yankee fans. Go there and tell me that nothing ignorant is written. The site moderator actually said that Game Two should have been called for bugs and had the further temerity to suggest that they effected the Yankee players more than the Indians. That's ignorant. So is the idea of trading Matsui for Santana or the suggestion that Bruce Froemming wanted the Indians to win or this quote "No bugs, Indians lose." That is ignorant and that is why I said that. Furthermore, I have yet to meet a Yankee fan who didn't have some of that entitled arrogance about him.

Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 7, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Seriously?

You're gonna make some diehard Yankee fan scroll through all of LGT posts to find the dumb comments? Do you want to throw down that gauntlet? Because I'm just bored enough, I'll do it.

No bugs, Indian lose is not an ignorant comment. It is an opinion with some basis.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 7, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
No basis at all?

Look, we lost the game, fair and square, and I'm not complaining about it, but you'll serve yourself much better admitting the obvious.

From SI's Tom Verducci, which was quoted by your own Ryan:

Plenty of major league games with far less on the line have been stopped due to bug infestations. I can't believe both the Yankees and Indians didn't argue for a stoppage of play Friday night, but especially New York, when it was obvious that reliever Joba Chamberlain was severely compromised by those conditions. It was no different than playing a game in a deluge. Cleveland's pitching was fabulous, but the Yankees must live with knowing that insects helped cause their defeat. No way that should happen in postseason baseball.

Great. Fausto did better with it than Joba. It's still not baseball.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 7, 2007 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Well you know if it was such a distraction, Torre coulda went out and asked the umps to delay the game.  I believe that's what Mr. Hargrove did during the famous snow storm game between the Tribe and the Mariners.

I don't know of any other team that takes on the responsibility of assisting the opposing teams players.  The villian in the piece doesn't wear a Cleveland uniform - he manages the Yankees

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 8, 2007 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
If we're going to paint Yankee fans with a broad brush, we at least have to be fair-minded about specific posts on a blog.

I have my disagreements with the site mods, but I don't think anything that was written about the bug situation was out of line.  Not at all.  I'm pretty sure we would have said similar things had our positions been reversed.

And the comment about the bugs affecting the Yankees more ... well, didn't they?  That's not necessarily a claim of unfairness, but the bugs did seem to be bothering a few Yankee players more than any of the Indians.

Finally, for the love of God, please do not fall into the trap of inviting people to find stupid comments.  We have stupid comments here, they have stupid comments there.  You can make your own conclusions as to the overall quality of the fans on either site, but pulling out random samples is surely not the way to decide anything.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Fair enough, my point was that those comments were representative of the way an entire group reacted, not just a few isolated dickheads. Most of that came from the moderator. I dare say that no one could come here and levy such charges against you or Ryan.

I know, most of what I said was aimless rhetoric. I confess that when it comes to the Yankees and their fans I tend to lose my cool and say things that may not make sense.

Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 7, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I confess that when it comes to the Yankees and their fans I tend to lose my cool and say things that may not make sense.

Which makes you precisely the sort of "dumb fan" you say Yankee partisans are.

The bug thing, which is what Amato, our admin, was calling out, was not a 'dumb' issue, or a question of whining. It was a legitimate beef. Whether or not Fausto pitches better in a blizzard than Joba does not mean the game should not have been stopped.

Calling Joba a choker speaks more to poor baseball analyis than an objective view of the game.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 7, 2007 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'll politely disagree with you on that, bugs are a part of life. A bit of whining by a few people unable to deal with it does not make it a major issue. Bugs happen on occasion.

That was poorly phrased earlier, it is the way you act that annoys me. If someone was incessantly arrogant and illogical around you, you would find it taxing as well. Someone coming here and complaining is not conducive to the intelligent discussion in which we pride ourselves.

Again, I apologize for getting overly frustrated by the stupidity. I should expect it. If you want to have a discussion about baseball I'd be happy to. I think that you will find that there are knowledgeable fans here that enjoy the game.

Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 7, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm happy to have a discussion on baseball. I don't have a whole lot of choices from the diary topics on the left, though, so perhaps you can post something "intelligent" we can discuss? I realize you weren't the fella who posted this bleacher bum diary, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and respond fair mindedly to anything intelligent.
Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 7, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I guess I'm the "bleacher bum" you refer to.  If I offended you, well what can I say?  The best arguments for my contentions have been supplied by self-described Yankee fans, not me or any of the other LGT posters.  

However, I should clarify.  I do not contend that I have come in contact with a representative sample of Yankee fans, but the vast majority of the ones I've met meet my description of "strutting, obnoxious" and "bitchy, whiney"- with Mr. Steinbrenner leading the parade.  Further up thread you'll note that a number of other LGT posters have chided me for being too hard on Yankee fans in the specific, although not in the general.  For this mischaracterization, I apologize.  

I believe that you can learn from anyone - anyone, even bad examples.  And this I've learned from many Yankee fans: how not to be a good baseball fan.  Thanks

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 8, 2007 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Here's a snippet of one of your informed game threads. Sounds a bit bitchy and whiny to me.

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK ON THAT 0-1 PITCH

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008.
by Gradyforpresident on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:07:20 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

What ever!

Playoffs! LGT resident kineisologist
by E5 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:07:27 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

They're pressing - Wedge needs to calm the troops down.

by District Hooligan on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:07:29 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

Oh Jesus.

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008.
by Gradyforpresident on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:07:52 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

I am going to puke.

Fuck you, Andy.

by afh4 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:07:59 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

I hate this.

by gte619n on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:08:00 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

fuck that shit in the ass.

by emil minty on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:08:06 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

That totally sucks

by new zealand tribe fan on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:08:14 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Game Thread: October 5, 2007

And fuck Clemens. Seriously, fuck fuck fuck Clemens.

by afh4 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:08:19 PM EDT
[ Reply to This ]

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Most of the comments have been made for me already, but I take issue with this:

People here know and understand the history of the game better than almost any city.

False.  People in New York know and understand the history of the Yankees, and only the Yankees.  Generally they know squat about anything else, because nothing else matters.

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
so are you suggesting fans from other teams (particularly teams who don't see their fans until they are winning) study the game of baseball and know its history better than NY? I'm not saying NY is far and away the most knowledgable baseball town, but I certainly don't see how you can claim Yankees fans are stupid. Yankees fans probably have had the most sustained interest in baseball over the last CENTURY. That sustained interest certainly puts us somewhere near the top of cities interested/knowledgable about baseball.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
The only history that matters to a Yankees fan is history that happened in pinstripes.  

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
you keep saying that, but what do you have to support that?
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
What do you have to support otherwise?  We're both generalizing, so I don't see how you can prove all Yankee fans have a deep grasp of non-Yankee history.

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
ah, yes, of course. Since I won't catalog all the knoweldge the Yankees fan has, you must be right. You were the one who made the ludicrous remark, and are the one that needs to back it up. Give me ONE piece of evidence suggesting the yankees' fan has less of a sense of history than the Indians fan.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Ludicrous?  Really, is it ludicrous?  My point is when we're both generalizing (as we are, as I said), it's awfully hard to prove.  

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
ah, but you began the generalizations by saying Yankees have no sense of history. Until you prove it to me, it is nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim.

Now, if you want, I can offer this as a general example towards our sense of history. As a product of the teams continued success throughout this century, Yankees fans have been "plugged in" to baseball at a higher and more consistent level than any other fan base. This is just a fact, I'm not trying to gloat about winning. Yankees fans have had more reason to care than any other team. As a product of this, it is very reasonable to assume that their knowledge is quite extensive throughout these time periods.

Now, since I now know how you guys opperate, I'll further say this doesn't mean that all Yankees fans can go work for the Elias Sports Bureau. But this does imply that the Yankees fans know and understand the history of the game.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
and I'm not saying we have a deep grasp. I'm not saying at all that Yankees fans are superior to any other fans. All I'm saying is that we are atleast on the same playing field as you guys seem to think you are.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I know lots of folks who are fans of the whole games and have significant knowledge outside their own teams.  Other than a couple of experts I know through the blogosphere, none of those people are Yankees fans.  Lots of Indians, Twins and Royals fans -- hell, half of the best statistical research is done by Royals fans, starting with Bill James.

Yankees fans have a sense of history, but they know nothing of the Big Red Machine, the many great St. Louis teams, the Reggie Jackson A's, even the modern Braves, just to name a few.

We know all about Joba, but until a few days ago, what did you know about Rafael Perez?  Surprise!

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
well, actually. Rafael Perez was on my fantasy team this year and helped me a lot in K/9 and lowering my WHIP and ERA. But do you think the Padres fan knows who he is? or even someone like the Mariners fan?

I will grant you this, however. There are probably MANY more unknowledgable Yankees fans than there are Indians fans. This is a product of the Yankees "bandwagon" status. But I'm not talking about the new 20 year old Yankees fan from Southern California. I'm talking about people who have been paying attention to baseball and watching the yankees forever. This is the dominant portion of our base, and I dare say it is larger than most (mostly as a product of the size of our city.) To recap, we have more stupid fans than any other team due to bandwagon fans (except maybe the Sox), but we also have as many if not more die-hard fans as any other city.

And yes, ask any yankees fan who was alive during the Big Red Machine or Reggie's A's (I was not), and I'll be you all of them who really care about the Yankees know all about those teams.

"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Serious fantasy players are in a whole other category, of course.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Kuddos, stillmonster. In four short, sweet paragraphs you've managed to both make your argument and validate every charge levied against Yankees fans (and even some we hadn't considered yet!). Some dexterity, that.

by osoc13 on Oct 6, 2007 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I don't know if any of you guys went over to Pinstripe Alley, but there is an unusual amount of activity from other teams fans, mostly Indians fans but some Angels and Red Sox fans too. They came to talk shit about the Yankees because we are down 2-0.

If the Yankees come back to win, you won't see any Yankees fans go to their boards and talk shit to them. However, if Yankees do lose, we can expect much trash talking on Pinstripe Alley. How do you explain this? A lack of class from you folks.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
We've already been trolled by a Yankee fan (and no, I don't mean you), so this comment won't wash.

by Fiddlesticks on Oct 6, 2007 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
isn't this thread right here evidence enough? You won't find this shit on yankees blogs.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You realize that this is a thread on an Indians blog, right? You are talking about other teams' fans going to a team's blog to talk trash. So far the only person fitting that description here is you.

by osoc13 on Oct 6, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'll give you that one about rival fans popping up on Pinstripe Alley after the Yanks lose. I looked at some of the threads yesterday and you guys had contend with some real fucks. It was classless and I hope those clowns didn't jinx us. I doubt it was any LGTers who did the trash talking. I know I personally don't. I'm afraid of karma. And I have a little self respect. Only a litte ... ;)
tool noun 1. LeBron James 2. an implement used in the practice of a vocation

by crazymoloh on Oct 6, 2007 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm partly torn on whether to give this guy props for pointing out how obnoxious/annoying Sox, Mets and Philadelphia fans (any Philly sports team) can be, or flaming him for being an ignorant dickwad. Well, its obvious why he's a dickwad, but here's why he's ignorant....

Yankees fans are always out and showing their pride. No fairweather fans here.

Its easy to show pride when your team has made the postseason the last 13 years and the World Series in 6 of those 13 seasons. So how prideful were these Yankee fans when their team, how do you say, sucked donkey balls?

The last four losing seasons for the Yankees were - 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992. How did they fare in attendance?

89 - 5th place AL east, 2.1M attendance, 8th in AL
90 - 7th place AL east, 2.0M attendance, 8th in AL
91 - 5th place AL east, 1.8M attendance, 11th in AL
92 - 4th place AL east, 1.7M attendance, 11th in AL

To believe that the Yankees have the largest or second largest cadre of fairweather fans is nuts. Personally, that ok with me. The more people that love and watch baseball the better.

p.s: I don't hate Yankees fans by any stretch of the imagination. I play baseball with some New York transplants down in SoCal. They are what I believe 'true' Yankee fans to be. They value the blue collar player. The value the never-say-die attitude. They admire players like Granderson and Sizemore. Above all, they are true baseball fans.

The people who bother me are the little shits who crawl out of the woodwork in Buttfuck, IN and show up at a bar cheering on the Yankees with no earthly clue about the game, its traditions, etc....

 

tool noun 1. LeBron James 2. an implement used in the practice of a vocation

by crazymoloh on Oct 6, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
To believe that the Yankees have the largest or second largest cadre of fairweather fans is nuts.

Ok. Clearly I meant to say - To believe that the Yankees don't have....

tool noun 1. LeBron James 2. an implement used in the practice of a vocation

by crazymoloh on Oct 6, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
moloh, you're right.  I hate to tarnish my image,  but I've got some friends who grew up in NYC that are Yankees fans the way you and I are Indians fans.  And these guys are good friends of mine and I respect them.

It's the Yankee fan I see outside of NYC that irritates me - but then you've said it much better than I could.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I am watching a high school football game last night in Indiana - thankful that WTAM is booming in loud and clear.

And of course when the game is in the 11th, a guy about 4 rows in front of me wants to know "what's the score of the Yankee game?"  He sees me and my son with Indians shirts on, but he wants to know the score of the "Yankee" game, not the "baseball game".

I took great pleasure five minutes later in reporting the final score of the Yankee game to him.

by IndyDave on Oct 6, 2007 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
i hate people that show up out of Buttfuck, IN and support the yankees too. But to be honest, I see more and more people from Buttfuck supporting the Red Sox. I'm from NY, so I can only talk about fans of the Yankees whose entire family is in love with the team and has been for generations. Few towns can have extended families who have histories with their team. New York is one of them, as is Cleveland.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Excellent! We've narrowed it down: Real fans buy jerseys and don't cheer for expansion teams.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
well then why don't you tell me what it takes to be a real fan and why yankees fans aren't? and yes, i do feel it's harder for fans of expansion teams to be "true" fans. I would think that you would agree coming from a team with such a long history.
"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 6, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm not arguing there's some ethereal quality that makes a baseball fan into a "true fan." I'm arguing there's no such thing, any more than there are "true Yankees." The entire concept of true fan-dom is fabricated post hoc.

Look at how you've tried to differentiate Yankees fans from their peers: They don't bitch -- at least, not like Phillies and Cubs fans bitch. (Having lived four years with Chicago residents, I'm inclined to agree, but that's not the point.) They buy lots of Yankees merch. They have a history -- look at all the championships!

I think you're just making this up. You're choosing characteristics that you think Yankees fans have, and THEN calling those characteristics "true." And it just so happens that the characteristics you choose to define true fandom -- visible merchandise, number of championships, age of franchise -- will have the effect of making Yankees fans truer than fans of any other team.

There's no such thing as a true fan, not the way you mean it. There are, of course, people who really enjoy watching the game. Look again at Chuck's post. Edit out the gloating, and what's he really saying? Yankees fans aren't fun. They blatantly dismiss competition -- read the Post playoff previews to get an idea of what I mean. They do insane things like demonize the league's best hitter because opposing teams pitch around him. They try to win arguments about baseball by saying, "Count the rings." In short, by demanding championships, rather than by enjoying the road to them, Yankees fans make the game less fun.

And we're here for fun, right? If not, what did you come here to say?

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
There, I've edited out most of the gloating.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Oh, please don't. I was just employing rhetoric.

by fleerdon on Oct 7, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm not trying to gloat about the number of rings (although they are certainly an indispensible fact when talking about yankees or their fans.) And again, I wasn't the one who insinuated that ANY fans weren't good fans until yankees fans were being attacked by you guys. Just look at the name of this entire thread and you tell me who is really being attacked.

If you don't think my characteristics (although broad and incomplete) are a good measure of a teams fandom, then what is? Are there any true measures? Maybe not. But if there aren't, then how the hell can you guys keep ripping on Yankees fans?

And also, dont ever think what the Post says is anything close to the sentiments of yankees fans.

"It is great to be young and an imbecile"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
How can we keep ripping on Yankees fans if there's no such thing as true fandom? Because we're not criticizing them for being "untrue fans." We're criticizing them for being ignorant and obnoxious. You're already defending that point further up in the thread, so I won't belabor it, but the argument is kind of like...

US: Yankees fans are jerks!
YOU: But we're true fans!
US: Who cares? You're jerks!

Being a baseball fan is a completely irrational thing to do, stillmonster. If you yourself never watched another inning of Yankee baseball, never went to another game, never bought another jersey, the Yankees would lose maybe a few C-notes of profit over your lifetime. Your personal support is totally irrelevant to the success of the team.

You want me to pick something that makes a good baseball fan? It's realizing just that -- they don't actually matter to the team, and that nobody else really matters to their teams. (I will make an exception for any season ticket holder of the Florida Marlins.) And once you get that, what's left? Well, enjoying the games as they come, for one thing -- appreciating the talent of the players, realizing that the very best team in the game, no matter what jersey it wears, will only win 60% of the time. In short, good baseball fans get that they're not special, but they don't enjoy the game in spite of how un-special they are: they enjoy the game because of how un-special they are. It provides that perspective you've been talking about.

That never seems to be enough for Yankees fans. It's NOT ENOUGH that Alex Rodriguez is the best hitter alive and is the reason the Yankees made the post-season in the first place; he needs to CARRY THE TEAM TO CONSECUTIVE CHAMPIONSHIPS! It's NOT ENOUGH that Derek Jeter's an okay-ish shortstop who hits like crazy; he needs MULTIPLE GOLD GLOVES to show how great he is! It's NOT ENOUGH that the team went out and bought a bunch of great pitching prospects; we need ROGER CLEMENS TOO! It's NOT ENOUGH that Joba Chamberlain's a good pitching prospect who advanced quickly; he needs to be FUTURE HALL OF FAMER! And if we lose to the Indians because we don't have enough pitching, it's NOT ENOUGH to go overpay a bunch of relievers this off-season; we need JOE TORRE FIRED!

See what I mean? There's this constant insistence among Yankees fans that they're qualitatively different since their team is the Yankees, and they have a right to DEMAND superiority. It's infuriating because the only thing that makes the Yankees special is George's shipping money. Hack $80 million off that payroll, and the Yankees are the Giants of the East Coast.

by fleerdon on Oct 7, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Very intriguing post. However I would say that my arguement about being "true" fans was countering those who say we lack a sense of history and are not knowledgable about the games.

It's funny, because if you guys understood the dynamic between Sox fans and Yankees fans (and Yankees/Mets for that matter) you might feel slighty differently about us being obnoxious. In these instances, Red Sox (and Mets) talk MUCH more shit to Yankees fans (and where shirts like A-Rod Swallows, Jeter has AIDS, etc.) whereas Yankees fans refrain from this shit. Sure, we defend our team when we have to, but we rarely engage opposing fan bases in arguments. We wait until we are being attacked (which happens quite often) and then defend our team.

I would say, however, that your second to last paragraph is, to a large extent, the unfortunate truth. There is no doubt Yankees fans are spoiled, and show some of the effects of this. But to some extent, what are we to do about this? If we have 20 million to burn, and need a SP, why not go out and get Clemens? I wished he did better, but those 20 million aren't mine, and he certainly helped the team out.

Those 20 million, however, isn't shipping money anymore. The Yankees have the most money because of being in the biggest market, drawing the most fans, and having a huge television network. There are owners richer than George, but they choose not to spend their money. The yankees have built an enormous empire, and thus have lots of money to spend.

(and also, I dont think any yankees fans think jeter is actually a good defensive shortstop. The worst range ever, but thats a different story.)

I like your post a lot though, it's the most reasonable one I've read so far and fairly presents some of the problems with the yankees.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
sorry for some shitty grammar and spelling
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
There are owners richer than George, but they choose not to spend their money. The yankees have built an enormous empire, and thus have lots of money to spend.

Frankly, you're out of your depth on this.

I think you'll find that almost all extraordinarily successful businesspeople, including possibly every major league owner, is successful in part because they don't spend money recklessly -- that is, they don't make a financial commitment without an understanding of how the money is going to come back to them.  Even Tom Hicks had an elaborate sports complex development scheme in which he rationalized that A-Rod's contract was a major part.  He was wrong, but that was his plan.

The point being, no owner spends significant money out of his pocket "generously" to pay players, and that certainly includes Steinbrenner.  The Yankees' revenues, and the year-over-year increase in the value of the team as an asset, provides all the money to pay those players.  It isn't Steinbrenner's personal money, it's the Yankees' wealth.

The "enormous empire" is something that happened to the Yankees, not something anyone built.  Turner started the first regional sports network more than 25 years ago, and MSG was the original standard-bearer in New York City.  The value of broadcast contracts went through the roof over the last fifteen years, and it was at that point that the Yankees payroll truly exploded.

Deciding to start their own network rather than receiving licensing fees from MSG was hardly an original idea; it was just a license to print money.  So you can rationalize it all you like, but the fact is that Yankees management has had to do almost nothing to acquire their financial might -- and certainly nothing particularly clever.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
That's what I was saying before, but someone was basically saying that the Yankees could spend lots of money because of Steinbrenner's personal fortune before acquiring the Yankees. So yes, I agree with you about that. And how can you blame any Yankees fan for this? If anything, isn't it a sign of a flourishing team?
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
A sign of a flourishing team?  Yes, but only because the financial imbalance begets automatic playoff berths, which begets more financial advantage, which begets more winning.  The Indians' attempt to rebuild while contending yielded 80 wins, and the year when nothing seemed to work right yielded 78 wins.

The Yankees had a similar season this year, but they won 94 games.  The difference is certainly not achievement or intelligence or heart or tradition or anything uniquely Yankee; the difference is simply money, the depth that giant piles of money can buy, like squandering $19 million on Roger Clemens.

In this way, the Yankees purchase a playoff slot every year, while the other teams have to compete for the other seven spots.  What the Yankees do isn't building a sports team, it's playing with a trust fund.

I don't blame Yankees fans for it, I blame them for being smug and ignorant, which begets your false pride in a team that merely purchases near-greatness rather than competing for it, on or off the field.

There's nothing for you to be proud of.  I would be embarrassed to be a Yankees fan, embarrassed to be playing the underdog to a team like the Indians.  I'd be saying, "Even if we win, there's nothing to be proud of here."

Hell, I felt that way even when we were mugging the Twins back in 2001.  But you have no shame.  If you understood how this game really works, you'd be ashamed of the Yankees.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I have to say, Jay, you displace a shocking amount of douchebagary to be a site admin.

This is almost as sanctimonious as the dumb diary you left on Pinstripe Alley. Your last 3 paragraphs are beneath somebody purporting to be a reporter, let alone a moderator.

We understand how this game works just fine. The Yankees have been playing long into October for much of the last century, so NY fans have had a little extra study hall.

Here's how our vaunted $19M man performed this year: 6 wins, one more than our rookie, Phil Hughes, who missed 2/3 of the season in the minors and w/ injuries.

Here's how our 2008 rotation looks: Wang, Pettitte, Kennedy, Chamberlain and Hughes--all of them home-grown.

Here's the core that won our most recent batch of rings: Pettitte, Jeter, Rivera & Williams--all homegrown.

Deal with it, dude. You want to be a baseball guy? Oversee a blog and get to talk on the radio? Try losing the sanctimony, giving props to the other team when they deserve it and leaving the flaming to the bleacher bums on your board.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
* edit: display, not displace
Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm not sure "douchebagary"[sic] is a word. Beyond that, quoting the failure of a $19 million signing and acting as if it is no big deal is about the worst thing you can do in support of your case. You basically admit that you enjoy wasting piles of money simply because you can and Jay has rather coherently explained why you can.
Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 8, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Jay has rather coherently explained why we should be embarrassed to be Yankee fans, in the service of a dumb post about how Yankee fans are bitchy, whiny, complainers, arrogant and on and on.

As a site admin, that is a clear case of douchebagary, as defined by the Jon Stewart Dictionary. It's a bleacher bum act.

The point w/ respect to the Clemens' signing is that you guys were using that as evidence of how we buy our way into the playoffs when, in fact, Clemens has been a bit of a bust. In fact, the turnaround, which was rather inspiring, came in large part due to key contributions from our new guard: Joba, Hughes, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy & Shelley Duncan.

I'll give you that A-Rod has been huge for us, but Texas is actually picking up 1/3 of his salary. We cut salary this year, and as Cashman takes more and more control from Steinbrenner, we're going to continue to focus on homegrown talent.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Truth hurts, eh?

You're being obtuse about the Clemens signing -- which was only an example, not the whole argument.

The point is not that the $19 million -- actually $26 million including marginal luxury tax -- allowed you to contend, which it (probably) didn't.  The point is that that deal was totally do-able by the Yankees and unthinkable by at least 26 other teams.

The point is that that $26 million is just one part of a massive financial advantage that is far greater than you have allowed yourself fully to grasp.  I understand why you're blocking it out, because the truth is awful, and here it is:

The Yankees spent $280 million on player compensation this year.

The median for all other teams was $82 million.

That is the real difference.

That is your team.

That is how they win.

That is the only way they win.

Deal with it.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm not blocking anything out, fella. The Yankees spend a lot of money on talent (although the actual 2007 figure is $195M).

That's not the issue. The issue here is how somehow that paints Yankee fans as 'Bitchy, whiney, crybabies without any respect for themselves or one another.'

This comment was the work of a good admin:

If we're going to paint Yankee fans with a broad brush, we at least have to be fair-minded about specific posts on a blog.

I have my disagreements with the site mods, but I don't think anything that was written about the bug situation was out of line.  Not at all.  I'm pretty sure we would have said similar things had our positions been reversed.

And the comment about the bugs affecting the Yankees more ... well, didn't they?  That's not necessarily a claim of unfairness, but the bugs did seem to be bothering a few Yankee players more than any of the Indians.

Finally, for the love of God, please do not fall into the trap of inviting people to find stupid comments.  We have stupid comments here, they have stupid comments there.  You can make your own conclusions as to the overall quality of the fans on either site, but pulling out random samples is surely not the way to decide anything.

This comment was the work of somebody displaying symptoms of serious douchebagary:

I don't blame Yankees fans for it, I blame them for being smug and ignorant, which begets your false pride in a team that merely purchases near-greatness rather than competing for it, on or off the field.

There's nothing for you to be proud of.  I would be embarrassed to be a Yankees fan, embarrassed to be playing the underdog to a team like the Indians.  I'd be saying, "Even if we win, there's nothing to be proud of here."

Hell, I felt that way even when we were mugging the Twins back in 2001.  But you have no shame.  If you understood how this game really works, you'd be ashamed of the Yankees.


Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I stand by both remarks, completely.  Can't find a single word I regret in either one.

It's for your brain to reconcile how the same person could make both of them.  Maybe the second one isn't as off-base as you'd like to think.

I really did feel that way about the Twins in 2001.  The Indians were flush with revenue, it seemed like we were just beating up on them.  I didn't like winning with unfair advantage, and that's one difference between you and me.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Can't find a single word you regret?

Okay, but don't say I didn't give you an opening. I can now rest my case.

You're not an idiot, so you wouldn't fall into the Urban Dictionary definition of douche

But you seem to exhibit all the traits of douchebaggery

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Interesting definition.  I think I treat people pretty well, but you'd have to ask someone else, I guess.

I assume I don't have to answer your question now about the personal insults, right?

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
And by the way, the $195M figure excludes the Clemens contract, Igawa's posting fee and the luxury tax.  The Yankees will spend $198 million more this year than the median team.  (The Red Sox will spend about $118 million more, by the way.)

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You still haven't explained why you don't hate all of the other teams above you in the payroll, specifically the Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers. Further, the Red Sox hoped to acquire the services of Roger Clemens for a similar figure, so how can you only hate on the Yankees?
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I actually have explained it about a half-dozen times at this point.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm sure a lot of folks here know the classic advice given to lawyers in court:

  • When the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
  • When the law is on your side, pound the law.
  • When neither the law nor the facts are on your side, pound the table.

Well, the table has been pounded, a sure sign that you've been buried in the solid-arguments column.

It's a shame, because I actually was totally digging the "Yankee Ombudsman" thing, the opportunity to have a dissenting view from someone who seemed not to be a douchebag at all.

But ... you just couldn't handle it.

Oh, well.  The search for a non-jackass Yankees fan in this forum fan lives on.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Listen, I know better than to come in and try to win an argument in hostile territory. I'm not making any argument on this asinine diary other than that you shouldn't be engaged in it as an admin. I'm not arguing balls and strikes.

Here's the deal:

My parents were born and raised in Cleveland. Since I grew up in Louisville, with no professional sports teams, I was brought up a Browns fan. (And still, despite my best intentions, I continue to root for them.) However, in my youth (in the 80s), the Indians were so bad, my father didn't even try to indoctrinate me into  Indians fandom. As a free agent, I picked the Yankees, which was reinforced when I moved to the Big Apple.

I have a friendly rivalry with my parents now that the Tribe is going head to head with the Yanks. And if the Tribe wins, I'll congratulate them for their good luck. By the same token, I have plenty of friendly exchanges with Allen Chace, B Cap, tommy and others over at OverTheMonster.

In my humble view, you are taking the level of discourse here down a notch or two, starting with the item you came over and posted on our site, which, in a true measure of the quality of our posters, got a free pass, even after you continued to pound the table on it.  

I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em, Jay. This type of diary entry is the purview of bleacher bums. Taking part in it and, in many ways, leading the conversation about how Yankee fans are smug and arrogant is simply a bit louche.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I won't be taking any lectures on level of discourse from you -- you forfeited all ground on that topic earlier today.  The level of discourse here speaks for itself, as it does on other forums.

You don't know what "pound the table" means.  Both in this discussion and in my post at Pinstripe Alley, I stuck to the facts and never launched any personal attacks, which is more than you can say.  You didn't like what I had to say?  Fine.  But that's all you get.

You grew up in Louisville, your parents were from Cleveland, and you root for the Yankees.  That tells me everything I really need to know about you as a sports fan.

You don't have to like it, and I could not care less if you do or you don't.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
What personal attacks have I made? Sorry, man, you're the moderator. You need to moderate. I'm calling you on it.

I have lived in NYC for 15 years. I think I'm allowed to root for my hometown team.

Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Look at your pos. You are the ones throwing all the insults around, and attacking the merits of our fandom. NOWHERE did either LateInningRelief or I say that Indians fans weren't good or their team garbage. Yet, in your posts, you continually ignore any meritorious argument we make and simply dismiss them by choosing to attack us some other way (in this instance by saying "You grew up in Louisville, your parents were from Cleveland, and you root for the Yankees. That tells me everything I really need to know about you as a sports fan."

What exactly does that tell you? Do you believe that you have to be from the city to root for the team? Does it matter that his parents didn't care about the Indians? Does that make him not a "true" fan.

Earlier, I tried (generally) to give some qualifications for being a "true" fan because you guys accused Yankees fans of being ignorant, unintelligent, etc, and was met with an aggressive backlash. But now you go around qualifying what it means to be a good fan. You know nothing about this guy, and YOU are the one who is ignorant, and jumps to conclusions. You, along with many others on this thread, cannot get past your innate hatred towards the Yankees. You immediately dismiss anything that we say, and blame it on arrogance, a feeling of self-entitlement, or ignorance.

And I think the class of (atleast some of) the moderators on this blog has already been determined. I came here to defend my Yankees with opinions and views quite contrary to this blogs views, and had my signature changed to something stupid. Now, I'm a big boy, and certainly don't care on a personal level if my signature gets changed. But don't you think a good principle for accepting diverse discourse as a moderator is to not censor, discriminate, or belittle those who wish to engage themselves in the conversation? Belittling those who come to engage their opinions tells me all I need to know about YOU (or whoever the moderator was that did it.)

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Hey, I could have banished you a long time ago.  I'm letting both of you have your say in this discussion.  But I won't lie about what I think.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Very magnanimous of you, letting Yankee fans weigh in on the topic of whether we're all bitchy, whiny crybabies with no respect for ourselves or others.
Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You joke, but you would be amazed how many comments I get, privately, saying that I should just ban you guys immediately, delete all the comments, etc.  And you've certainly violated the ground rules enough that I don't even have to think about it.

But I'm interested in the discussion.  And I'm cutting you some slack (and that other guy even more) because I know that even valid criticisms -- of both the team and its fans -- are going to seem hurtful to you.

I don't feel great about that, but I do think it's the product of an honest conversation, and nobody's making you stick around for it.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You may be cutting us some slack, but don't act like we came in here flinging curses and insults all around. Quite the opposite, in fact. I came in here to defend my team, and only escalated arguments when I was being attacked. I never attacked the integrity of the Indians fan base, while being constantly be bombarded with insult after insult. Sure, throughout this entire thread I may have personally insulted a few individuals, but this was only as retaliation for continuously being called ignorant, arrogant, stupid, etc. So maybe look at your own posters as to people who should be removed from this blog. Just because they agree with you doesn't mean the way they do is proper (if me and my fellow Yankees ombudsman are indeed violated your rules.)
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Perhaps unconsciously, your post here is so typical of Yankee fan arrogance.  "If the Tribe wins, I will congratulate them for their good luck."

Not their superior ballplaying on the field. Their luck in beating the Yankees. Becuase only a lucky team could beat the Yankees, not a superior one.

Please, continue to tell us how not smug and not arrogany you and other Yankees fans are.  Apparently, you have not learned what Molly Ivins calls "the first rule of holes - when you are in one, stop digging."

by woodsmeister on Oct 8, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I will congratulate my parents for their good luck.
Yankee Ombudsman

by LateInningRelief on Oct 8, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
and what "facts" are these. Continually stating what our payroll is a simple fact that brings with it no subjective meanings. It simply is a number. I don't believe being arrogant, ignorant, and self-righteous is an empirical fact associated with a large number.
So what facts are these you speak of?
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
then shouldn't atleast mets fans and red sox fans feel the same way? Both teams purchased half of their team and the Red Sox were also willing to pay Roger Clemens 20 million to pitch for their team this year. The Yankees actually cut payroll this year, while the Red Sox increased theirs by 25 Million.

So don't give me this bullshit that the Yankees work within a completely different framework than everyone else. Sure, we are still the richest, but it aint like other teams aren't spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

Also, look at the Knicks or NY Rangers (of 3 years ago) if you want examples of how the highest payroll in the league DOESN'T buy you a playoff spot, even when the playoffs are twice as big in those leagues.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
As I have already explained to you, more than once, the Mets and Red Sox are among a class of teams operating at a higher revenue level than the average team.  That too is unfair and unsporting.

But the Yankees' financial advantage is yet another level above them.  The Yankees spent almost $280 million this year on payroll, negotiating rights and luxury taxes.  That is far beyond any other team.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Still, you ignored my point that money doesn't by itself by victories, as these other two NY teams show so well. Further, are you trying to tell me the Devil Rays fans should only be mad at the Yankees for having a high payroll? Truth is, the luxury tax of the Yankees helps out the small teams far more than the Red Sox payroll, who still spend an amazing disproportionate amount of money but don't pay as much luxury tax. If I were a fan of a team who wasn't emminently going to compete for the WS, I would be rooting for the Yankees to spend as much money as possible so that my team could benefit.

Sure, dismiss this comment as arrogant, stupid, and an example of our self-righteousness. But the truth is, the Yankees actually help the smaller teams more than the other teams with the high payrolls. As long as the Yankees don't win the WS, why should you care how much their payroll is? Shouldn't you be more worried about the collective increase of payrolls across the board? If you look at the numbers in a relative manner, other teams have increased their payroll significantly more than the Yankees have in recent years and it is likely they will again decrease their payroll going into next year, much like they did this year.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Stillmonster,

I'm sorry to have made any references earlier to Yankee fans, in general, as smug, arrogant, ignorant or any of the above. It has obscured my point on the Yankee's spending, which might have been an interesting topic for discussion.

(Psst: I'm not really Jay.)

by DoppelgangerJay on Oct 8, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
It's not arrogant, stupid or self-righteous.  It's just ignorant.

If current luxury taxes and revenue sharing were enough to offset the Yankee advantage, then all player payrolls would be about the same.  As you can see, the effect so far is that the Yankees' $198 million advantage is cut down to "only" a $130 million advantage.  I guess you could call that progress.

Furthermore, the Yankees' spending has an inflationary effect on all player salaries -- this is not only common sense and basic economics, it's actually true!  For all but a handful of teams (the ones that aren't even trying to spend money), that inflationary effect totally eliminates any possible benefit that revenue sharing and luxury tax provides.

So basically, any fan of another team who is rooting for the Yankees to spend more would have to be insane.

by Jay on Oct 8, 2007 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
To my way of thinking, the Yankees are an expansion team.  Well, maybe not "expansion" so much as a team that got run out of Baltimore and had to find a new home.  

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/

The Indians (and Red Sox) are the playoff teams with history, being original members of the American League.

[By the way, I like your new footer better than the old one.]

by Fiddlesticks on Oct 7, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
i hadn't thought about this unti raab wrote about it on the GQ blog, but it isn't the yanks, it's their fans that i hate so much:  
this odd mix of superior swagger and ignorance.  obsession and nonchalance.

though, think about it, it isn't that suprising:

half of them aren't from the new york area, so they are purely front-runners.  there's truly no other explanation or justification for somebody anywhere north of westchester, south of mid-jersey or west of the delaware water gap to give a shit about that team.

the other half of them are from the new york metropolitan region, which means they get to choose between two big payroll clubs.  remember the mid-80s to the mid-90s?  mets fans were everywhere, and the new york-area yankee fans were almost invisible.

in either case, their affections are more often than not fickle, and their knowledge weak.  they're around to win but not to suffer, and their sense of history is non-existent.

(just like the cubs) i know so old-time yankees fans, and i love them to death.  but it is an awful small segment of the fanbase in general.  i'd listen to old-school fans heckle me and the tribe all day long, with pleasure.  but the rest of them?  they're the reason i find that team so damn odious.

i don't want to alarm y'all, but i think it's time to pump out some glitter.

by jonnykilbane on Oct 6, 2007 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
The Esquire blog. Esquire. Not GQ. Esquire.

by judahda on Oct 7, 2007 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Admit it - this was fun.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 7, 2007 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I always thought this about Yankees fans, and I know it's still true.

But the strangest thing happened while I was watching Game 1.

I met a true Yankee fan.

I mean a guy who knew all about the team, was wearing not just a hat, but a jersey, too, and hadn't come to harass me and be anti-Tribe, but to share a view of the TV to cheer for the Yankees.

It was both an overwhelmingly positive and negative experience.

I was gladdened to learn that it is possible to be  both nice and a Yankee.

I was terrified that I sort of liked a Yankee fan.

by Voltaire on Oct 6, 2007 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
The reason people hate stereotypes is that they're true. Don't get too worked up.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Of course, I also had this conversation with another guy:

Guy: Who's pitching for us?
Me: Chein-Ming Wang
Guy: Who?
Me: Wang. Chein-Ming Wang.
Guy: Oh. [pause] Go Yanks! We're gonna ** you! You guys ****.

by Voltaire on Oct 6, 2007 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Yeah, no shit. I play ball with guys from the Bronx. Good guys. Better fans. The bandwagoners are why everyone hates Yankees fans.

While I do begrudge the fact that they have more money than God, I always love a good baseball story and Joba is certainly one of them. Read about him in this week's SI. Hate the Joba-is-God anointers. Don't hate the Joba.

tool noun 1. LeBron James 2. an implement used in the practice of a vocation

by crazymoloh on Oct 6, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Joba definitely showed a lot of class in his comments after the game last night.

by Jay on Oct 6, 2007 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
you could see the class dripping from his muscular neck

by Brick. on Oct 6, 2007 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
if it wasn't for the midges.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 6, 2007 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
SO. TRUE. Way to keep perspective.

I think that's my word of the series.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I think all the other pitchers had midges camping on their sweaty, apparently less muscular necks. They also had darker skin, so the bugs didn't show up on TV.

I'll be careful, wouldn't want to perpetuate our racist image.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You know, these Busted Tees models are growing on me.

by fleerdon on Oct 6, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Also, it has occured to me the unclassiness of this blog. First, my signature gets changed to something negative (which I certainly don't care about, but wouldn't happen at PS Alley. We atleast encourage discourse, no matter how inflammatory it might be.) Also, this blog has 2 direct, anti-Yankee Diaries. This one, and then the one expressing delight in the chances of removing some key parts of the Yankee franchise. You would never find such direct and negative stories at a Yankees fansight (except about the Sox, with whom we an actual rivalry.) So I thank you guys, for proving how little class you all have.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I'm sure if you swept the Red Sox there would be no chest-thumping whatsoever.  You have humbled us, sir.

If there's one thing LGT is known for, it's that discourse is not allowed.  

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
that's exactly my point, if the Sox won there would be lots of chest bumping because there is an illustrative history there between the two teams.

However, if we beat you (or the angels, or anyone else) there is  almost no chest bumping. Whereas ANY team that plays the Yankees bumps its chest considerably if they win. Explain that.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Well that's kind of the point of this thread, isn't it?  It's nice to see an arrogant fan base sit down.

by nickjs21 on Oct 7, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
to be honest, we are sitting down most of the time when it concerns other teams. We generally don't gloat to other teams fanbases (except the Sox.) We only get worked up when it has to do with our own team.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Everyone hates the Yankees.

The Yankees wield an economic club over the rest of the AL.  It is offensive to anyone with a genuine interest in sport, because the basis of any real sport is a level playing field.

And let's be real clear here, that economic advantage is not one that has been earned, which in some sense would just be the American way -- though even that pure-capitalist mentality has no real place within the sporting ethic.  It's just that the industry evolved in such a way that the natural advantages of larger markets have become exaggerated beyond all reason.

So when the Yankees lose, everyone celebrates.  The Indians two victories are not just being celebrated here, they're being celebrated on Orioles forums, Red Sox forums, Tigers forums, Twins forums, Athletics forums, everywhere.

And also because of how Yankees fans are.  And it may be that Yankees fans aren't really any different than other fans; they may be only equally as boastful (and obnoxious and ignorant) as any other fans.  But since the Yankees' success has been earned on a profoundly un-level playing field, the resentment is greater, and the pride of Yankee fans is less appropriate.

I mean, what is it, exactly, that you're really proud of, anyway?  We all root for laundry, but Yankee fans actually root purely for accumulated money.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
so basically, you are saying you hate the yankees because they enjoy the advantages of being in New York. Hmmm... So then why don't you hate the Mets? They have an absurdly high payroll. They go out and sign Delgado, Beltran, Wagner, Lo Duca, Pedro. Yet you don't hate them? The Red Sox go out and get Manny Ramirez, Curt Schilling, Edgar Renteria, bid 51 Million just to talk to a player, then sign him for 100 Mil and pay a shitty J.D. Drew 15 Mil a year.

For the first time, I consistently hear Red Sox fans complaining about their big signings. They recognize they operate within the same system as the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs, (and maybe Giants, even.) You don't seem to hate these teams. There must be something else.

No longer does this "un-equal playing field" argument work, because there are other teams out there than enjoy the same benefits as the yankees but aren't hated for it.

"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
First thing is, we hate those other teams, too, just not as much.

Actually, some folks now hate Red Sox fans more than Yankee fans.

Second thing is, most of those other teams aren't good enough to even deserve our hate.  They just get our scorn.  And their fans don't have the same dopey-rich-kid sense of entitlement, of course, because they haven't done very well.

Third thing is, the Yankees' financial advantage is in a whole other category even from those other teams.  Those teams have a huge, huge advantage over the average major league team, and the Yankees have an additional huge, huge advantage over even those teams.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Are you serious?  You really don't get why everyone hates the Yankees?  This is America; we root for the underdog and we hate the big guy with more money and resources than everyone else and beats up on the little guys.  That's the Yankees.  It's not just that they have won more championships than everyone else, it's also the financial advantage that they have over everybody else (yes, even the Sox, Mets, etc.).  Add in the fact that they have so many bandwagon-jumping, unknowledgable fans that have no logical reason to root for them, and you have the reasons for the hatred by the rest of America.

But every sport has a team like this - Dallas Cowboys, LA Lakers, Duke basketball, Notre Dame football.  Each one of these teams has thousands of bandwagon-jumping fans all over the country that have no connection to those teams.  And fans of the local teams get annoyed by these people who know next to nothing about "their" team yet brag about their accomplishments and rub it in the face of others just to make themselves feel good.

Notre Dame is the best example.  I'm a OSU fan, of course, but I hold nothing against other traditional powerhouse programs such as Alabama, Oklahoma, and USC.  Now, I obviously want those teams to lose if they're ranked ahead of (or close to) Ohio State but that's just so my team can move up in the polls, not that I have anything against them.  If Alabama is ranked 20th and playing another team, I'm not really rooting against them.  But Notre Dame is a different story - no matter what their ranking, if you don't love them than you hate them and want them to lose every week.  Notre Dame, like the Yankees, has fans across the country with no connection to the team.  Their fans think that they're entitled to win in the same manner than Yankee fans do.  And the rest of the country hates them because of it.

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 7, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Charlie Weiss is also an ass.
Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32.....Oregon-39 Michigan-7

by gahnki on Oct 7, 2007 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
You're welcome?
Dealing with it.

by Brad D on Oct 7, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
The arrogance many of us see in the generic "Yankee fan" is perhaps best exemplified by the comments of Yankee Fan No. 1:

George Steinbrenner says Joe Torre most likely won't return to the New York Yankees unless they overcome their deficit against the Cleveland Indians and reach the AL championship series.

"His job is on the line," the owner was quoted in Sunday's editions of The Record. "I think we're paying him a lot of money. He's the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don't think we'd take him back if we don't win this series."

Torre was hired before the 1996 season and led the Yankees to four World Series in his first five seasons but none since.

[...]

Steinbrenner also criticized umpire Bruce Froemming for not stopping play when insects invaded the field during Game 2 in Cleveland on Friday. [...] Froemming called it "just a little irritation." Steinbrenner profanely dismissed Froemming's explanation.

"He won't umpire our games anymore," Steinbrenner said.

Team owners do not direct umpiring assignments, and the 68-year-old Froemming -- the longest-tenured umpire in history -- is retiring after this season.

The Yankees complained to baseball commissioner Bud Selig.

"(Selig) just said, 'That's in the umpires' hands.' ... It was terrible. It messed up the whole team, (Derek) Jeter, all of them," Steinbrenner told the paper.

Steinbrenner: Torre's Job is On the Line

It's just impossible to not hate the Yankees as long as this guy is in charge.

by Fiddlesticks on Oct 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
so you hate the fans because of the owner?
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I hate Yankee fans because they believe that their owner having deep pockets makes them better fans.
Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32.....Oregon-39 Michigan-7

by gahnki on Oct 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
There are many, many good reasons to hate the Yankees and their fans.  Steinbrenner is only one of them.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
I think it's sad that a Yankee fan has to come on our poor, old, know nothing blog and defend his team. I may be wrong, but I doubt if any of our fans go over to PA and talk shit. You say that it is funny that we only talk when we're ahead in the series. Isn't it typical of a Yankee fan to talk shit when his team is down? Let your team do the talking on the field, because that's what we are doing.
Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32.....Oregon-39 Michigan-7

by gahnki on Oct 7, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
i think your signature says all I need to know. you care more about the other teams doing shitty than your own team doing well. Much like a red sox fan.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Haha...right.  I'm sure a Yankee fan would never make fun of the Red Sox for a humiliating loss.

You know, your continued insistance of the "superiority" of Yankee fans just solidifies everyone's opinion of you guys.

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 7, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
again, no where am I saying yankees fans are the best. Look at the name of this thread and what the guy is saying. I am just defending the Yankees and trying to say their fans are as knowledgable and passionate as any other fans. You guys are the ones consistently calling Yankees fans, illogical, unintelligent, fair-weather, etc. I am simply saying we are as good fans as you are, and none of you will even grant me that.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
and to be sure, i didn't actually talk shit. I never put down Indians fans. I was just trying to DEFEND yankees fans from your insults.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 7, 2007 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
Hello?  You just insulted this guy two posts up.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2007 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Yankee Fans
just to that one individual who attacked me. I didn't make a gross generalization about every indians fan, like you guys seem to be consistently making about yankees fans.
"It is great to be young and a Yankee"

by stillmonster on Oct 8, 2007 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

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