Let's Go Tribe!: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Steve McNair Found Shot to Death


ALDS Roundup

A full recap is coming later today, but first a rundown of the media reaction to last night's series clincher:

Cleveland

Wedge never wavers, wins. Terry Pluto, PD.

Eric Wedge's managerial philosophy of stability (also known as complacency depending on the outcome) made the decision to pitch Paul Byrd in Game 4 a relatively easy one:

Wedge and pitching coach Carl Willis said they never gave any consideration to Sabathia starting Game 4 in New York on three days' rest rather than a starting pitcher's usual routine of four days between outings. Sabathia threw 114 pitches in five draining innings when the Tribe beat the Yankees in the opener last Thursday. Conventional thinking is to hold a pitcher under 110 pitches. Next, Sabathia has pitched only once in his career with three days' rest. That was on Oct. 7, 2001, when he threw five scoreless innings at Toronto. But in his previous start, he threw only 59 pitches -- also in five innings.

In baseball, the unknown is something to be explored only in dire circumstances. The Indians had a 2-1 advantage, and while there was no guarantee that a fully-rested CC Sabathia pitches the Indians to victory in Game 5, a fully-rested Paul Byrd gave the Indians the best chance to win Game 4. Sabathia might have matched Byrd's 5+ innings on short rest, but the history of pitchers on short rest isn't pretty:

Willis said the track record for pitchers on three days' rest is poor. In Game 4 of the Division Series, it has been done 18 times since 1995, the latest being the Yankees' Chien-Ming Wang's being belted for four runs in one inning Monday night. In these 18 games, the starters' records are 5-8 with a 6.52 ERA. In the postseason overall, it's 29-52 for teams using a starter on three days' rest since 1995.

Indians reach ALCS with Game 4 victory over New York. Paul Hoynes, PD.

And what of Paul Byrd? How did he feel about the starter controversy?

When Paul Byrd went to the interview room Sunday night after the Yankees beat the Indians in Game 3 of the American League Division Series, reporters asked him two questions.

"No. 1, they asked me if C.C. Sabathia should start Game 4 instead of me," Byrd said. "No. 2, they asked me if C.C. did start instead of me, how would I feel. That was it. I walked out of there feeling like a loser. I think I'm a pretty heavy underdog."

Perhaps the media controversy was motivation for Byrd, who was aggresive against a lineup that hammered him the last time he faced them. Or maybe it was the chants from the New York faithful while warming up:

In the bullpen, a chant that began with "Byrd" and ended with an expletive got Byrd going.

"I told them all to calm down," the right-hander said. "What an amazing place to play."

New York

Season Over: Yankees Out, and Torre... Tyler Kepner, New York Times.

The major story over the last two games of the series was George Steinbrenner's ultimatum to Torre: either beat the Indians, or you're out. While George has always been one to change his mind, Joe Torre was certainly taking the threat seriously:

In his postgame news conference, Torre choked up when talking about how badly his players wanted to win. He does not have a contract for next season, and he spoke with a sense of finality.

"This ball club, they have a great future," Torre said, adding later: "This has been a great 12 years. Whatever the hell happens from here on out, I'll look back on these 12 years with great, great pleasure."

Even with Torre's success with the Yankees, I couldn't imagine a more difficult managerial job. In most other organizations, Torre's job would be as safe as the gold in Fort Knox. If George follows through with his threat, and Torre wants to keep managing, there will be a job for him.

It's not just Torre that might not be back with Yankees. Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera are both free agents, and Alex Rodriguez can opt out of his contract. Given the support that Torre has from his players, a new manager might make it easier to leave the Big Apple:

Rivera said he did not know why Steinbrenner would even think of firing Torre, and he said he would have to think about whether he would want to play for another manager.

Of his contract status, Rivera said: "They had an opportunity and they did nothing with me, so we'll see what happens. This is a business, and I'm going to treat it like a business."

Derek's Flat Fall. Mike Puma, New York Post.

In an amusing twist, the Yankee captain was the one being called out in wake of the Yankees' defeat:

Jeter disappeared for the AL Division Series, just part of the reason the Yankees are headed toward a seventh straight offseason that will not include a tickertape parade.

The Yankees captain had two singles in last night's 6-4 loss to the Indians in Game 4 of the ALDS, but finished the series 3-for-17 (.176) with no homers and one RBI.

Jeter grounded into three double plays in the series, including a key twin killing in the sixth inning.

0 recs | Comment 169 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: ALDS Roundup
I have to say I absolutely love the Jeter article - I have already sent it to a few people.  Tribe wins, A-Rod (who I don't dislike and who the Yankee fans don't deserve)does OK and the almight Captain falls flat on his face.  Can't get much better.

by IndyDave on Oct 9, 2007 8:57 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
"Best fans? It was great to see empty seats in the ninth inning," Garko said. "It was great doing this here."

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/09/2007-10-09_indians_garko_blasts_yanke e_fans.html

by Cory Snyder on Oct 9, 2007 9:13 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Garko is quickly endearing himself to me (after the bug comments and this.)

by emd2k3 on Oct 9, 2007 10:00 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awwww...
"...the Yankees are headed toward a seventh straight offseason that will not include a tickertape parade."

(sobs)

by ManchildinBeantown on Oct 9, 2007 9:19 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Awwww...
By my calculations, we should begin feeling sorry for them in 2059.

by SuddenSam on Oct 9, 2007 10:02 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
My first comments: First, I was a moron, and Jay and Ryan were spot on, Byrd was good and Wang (on 3-days rest) was awful. Now I am looking forward to game 4 of the ALCS, when the tribe will send Byrd to the mound, and the redsox will send Beckett on short rest. Becketts short-rest record will end in a barrage of hard hit balls.

by oxforddave on Oct 9, 2007 9:22 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Some great stuff in Garko's blog today. . .

You can't buy into the name on the front of the uniform or the name on the back. You've got to go out and actually play the game. That's the way I looked at this series. The reason we struggled so much with the Yankees during the season was it was the first time we faced guys like Andy Pettitte and Mike Mussina. This time around, it was just like, "Who cares?" They're not any better than Johan Santana or Justin Verlander or Mark Buehrle and all those guys we played against all year.

For all the ragging on experience we do here, it does seem like playing lots of close games against good pitchers had some relevance to the Indians' success. Those were some darn good ABs.

by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 9:30 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Such an interesting comment, because it rests on the idea that we have outstanding players and teams right here in the AL Central, and we draw confidence from doing well against them.  That's something we never had in the 90's.

Of course, we drew confidence back then by just crushing other teams into the ground completely.

My confidence is simple:  There isn't anybody better than Carmona, and thank God we don't have to face him.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 10:00 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Word
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 10:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Or, as I told people who threw the 0-6 in my face:  We beat the teams we had to beat.  We won the series we had to win.

During the regular season, the Yankees were just another team.

by SuddenSam on Oct 9, 2007 10:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
That pretty much sums it up for me as well, I feel like with Carmona going in game 2, at worst we come back to Cleveland 1-1. And Matsuzaka/Wakefield/Lester don't scare me at all.

by mrich on Oct 9, 2007 10:33 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Wakefield scares me a little bit - especially if our guys aren't patient - but I'm on such a high right now, I wouldn't care if they threw Cy Young at us.  This series - and the postseason - is ours to take.

by jjfoosk on Oct 9, 2007 2:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Are you kidding?  With Wakefield hurting the way he is, and with his flutterball not quite as active on a cold night (knucklers do better with high heat and humidity) I'm salivating at the 3 2/3 IP of battig practice he'll throw in game 4.
When bunting is a crime, only criminals will bunt.

by BostonWahoo on Oct 9, 2007 3:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I was reacting more to the Tribe's inability to rough up soft-tossers this year (or the past couple for that matter).  I'd forgotten that he's been hurt.  

by jjfoosk on Oct 9, 2007 3:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I have to say, with the double Bud Light action he had going on in the postgame, I am sort of shocked he was in any condition to put together a blog entry.

by CBusSteve on Oct 9, 2007 10:33 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Something tells me not to get into any sort of competitive drinking arrangement with Ryan Garko.

by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 10:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Anyone else have the same initial thought as I did about Torre: Wherever he gets hired, if anywhere, the departed Yankees players will follow??

Maybe we hire Torre as a (vastly overpaid) bench coach and then we get Rivera at a discount?  

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I don't really buy it.

Most of them were there for the money and will follow the money.

It sure will be interesting to see what happens when Posada and Rivera hit the market for open bidding.  It's hard to imagine them as anything but Yankees, but of course, that's what we always say.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 9:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Rivera's comments sound as if he's not entirely happy with the organization no matter what happens to Torre.

by emd2k3 on Oct 9, 2007 10:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
It could also be him playing the free agent market. After all, if he portrays himself as indifferent to the Yankees, it makes other teams feel better about landing him. And it makes the Yankees pay top dollar to keep him.

by Ryan on Oct 9, 2007 10:08 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I don't know which other closers are due to be free agents (anyone?) but I'd say that the prospect of Rivera on a one or two year deal would have to be really tempting for the Tribe.  I can't imagine we'd be significantly outbid by anyone - it's a (seemingly) rare instance of a big name free agent leaving the Yankees, while the Red Sox, Angels, Mets, Dodgers and Mariners, the traditional big spending teams, are set at closer.  Yeah, there are others, Texas and SF come to mind, so you never know, but I'd imagine we'd have to take a real look there.  I don't really want to start thinking about this yet, but is there any other position on the roster for which we might sign someone?
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Funny you should mention the Red Sox. I've got to imagine they're hot on Mo. Papelbon's a good closer, but what a waste of innings.

by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 10:42 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Fella's, we already have next year's closer on the team and his name is Jensen Lewis.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 9, 2007 12:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
i would be surprised if it wasn't joebo.

by emil minty on Oct 9, 2007 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
He made a pretty strong argument for himself in Game Two, didn't he? That wasn't dominant, that was disdainful. I swear to God he sneered.

by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 2:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Babe Ruth didn't finish his career with the Yankees.

by JamesPowell on Oct 9, 2007 10:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I still can't figure out how this happened.  The Yankees swept us in the regular season.  They had Wang going last night and then Pettitte in game 5.  It's just not fair.   Not fair I tell you!
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Oct 9, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I thoroughly enjoyed TBS panning to the "Captain Clutch" banner a few pitches before Jeter's GIDP.

In fact, that's probably the only thing I enjoyed about TBS over the past 5 days.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Oct 9, 2007 9:59 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Who would've thought we could win so convincingly and in turn, (literally) destroy this Yankee team in the process.

I hope Joe Torre lands at another AL team and gets to stick it to his old team 7 times a year.

by Toxicadam on Oct 9, 2007 10:00 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
So is Joe Girardi the next fodder for the Yankee grist mill?

by emd2k3 on Oct 9, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I thought Don Mattingly was the heir apparent

by APV on Oct 9, 2007 10:14 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
one or the other, but i thought joe took the year off with the understanding this opportunity would likely arise.

by emil minty on Oct 9, 2007 10:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I'd heard that they're keeping Mattingly on the back burner until the roster is 100% Cashman -- i.e., they don't want Don to have to deal with "rebuilding" issues.

by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Kudos to Shapiro, Wedge and the coaching staff.  It was a real pleasure to beat up on the Yankees - especially taking the final game in Yankee Stadium.  (You don't know the depths of my lifelong hatred of the Yankees).

Kudos also go to lady luck for an amazingly healthy season.  Did any of our starters go on the DH this year?  Best of all, they are all healthy now for the playoffs.

My favorite memory of this series was the bugs in Cleveland, and how much they bothered Jeter. I felt a bit sorry for Chamberlin, but Jeter acted as if every bug were a personal insult.

Anyone else notice the difference between the Yankees and the Indians? The Yankees rely on personal heroics, hence the three solo homers after they were down 6-1.  Indian batters, on the other hand, concentrate on getting on base and trust the batters following them to do the same, and eventually runs get scored.

by LeftyCatcher on Oct 9, 2007 10:09 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Lee started the year on the DL & Westbrook went on not long afterwards, but aside from those guys we've really had pretty healthy starting pitching this year (knock on wood).

by zempf on Oct 9, 2007 10:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The only position player who went on the DL was David Dellucci. Westbrook and Lee had 6 week stints on the DL. But that was pretty much it. The Indians have been very fortunate on the injury front this season.

by Ryan on Oct 9, 2007 10:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
And since that's what got Fausto into the rotation, the SP injuries turned out to actually be a boon to us.

by Jackdaw on Oct 9, 2007 10:21 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
You are always fortunate when you can avoid serious injuries.  I suspect some of the credit goes to having a young team.  Perhaps the training staff deserves a hat tip as well.  This is two consecutive years of a rather light injury load.

by CBusSteve on Oct 9, 2007 10:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Yep, I'd love to see how many starters we've used in the past two seasons (past three seasons, really) compared to the rest of the league.

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 10:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I'm sure some people on this website can name them off the top of their heads..I'll try (I know it won't be complete, I'm at work after all, but someone can complete it for me):

Sabathia
Carmona
Westbrook
Byrd
Laffey
Sowers
Lee
Stanford
Millwood
Jason Davis (He started a couple times, right?)
Slocum
Jason Johnson
Elarton

Am I missing anyone? That's a tiny tiny list.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:53 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Now that I've posted that, I'll look it up...I missed Guthrie - and that's it.

I'm still amazed that, in 2005, we only had 4 starts that were not made by either Sabathia, Westbrook, Millwood, Lee or Elarton (all were made by Davis).

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
...or even compared to our history.  Certainly ineffectiveness of starters in the past inflates these numbers, but I have:

2007 - 8
2006 - 9
2005 - 6
2004 - 12
2003 - 12
2002 - 16
2001 - 10
2000 - 13

by CBusSteve on Oct 9, 2007 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
More significant would be to compare the number of starts made by our Top 4, compared to others, and our Top 6.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
With the PD's crew, the results write the story.  That's not always a bad thing, but Cleveland would be burning if JoBo had kicked away the lead.  And he certainly tried to do so.

I just would like people to make some judgements that are not results-oriented.  

Of course, I have to concede that we'll never know the effect of Wedge's stubborn decisions (sticking with Trot after Clemens came out; going with JoBo "because he's the closer").  The players have said they appreciate it -- Byrd said so in his postgame interview last night.

So I guess I have to hope that the risk of Wedge's decision to hand the ball to one of our worst pitchers -- while removing the single best bullpen option -- is outweighed by some hard-to-quantify morale and team spirit.

Either way, let's build massive leads on the Sox so it won't matter.  This is the most likeable group of guys I've ever seen in any sport, and it just feels like it's going to happen.

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 10:20 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
great decision by Wedge to give Byrd the start, i thought it was gonna be an awful decision but Byrd did a great job to get thru 5 innings, what a great night yesterday, now we have to go to Boston with out two aces, im feeling pretty good right now....LETS GO TRBE!!

by luifer5 on Oct 9, 2007 11:21 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Tribe had 6 guys who had OBPs of .400 or higher for the series:  

Martinez (.421)
Hafner (.429)
Lofton (.444)
Garko (.500)
Sizemore (.524)
Peralta (.579)!!!

Small sample size to be sure, but that's why we kept scoring all those runs with two outs.  We always had guys on.

by maledicta on Oct 9, 2007 11:28 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
No doubt.  TBS announcers never figured out that the number of opportunities was much more important than the batting average with RISP.  

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 11:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
As a team for the series, the Tribe hit .315/.417/.524 whereas the Yankees hit .228/.300/.404. I think that sums things up pretty well.

by zempf on Oct 9, 2007 11:37 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Aside from the sample size problem, which can't be solved, I think you would get more meaningful data if you removed any plate appearances against Ross Ohlendorf.  Those trials are simply not relevant, because Ohlendorf literally is not a major league pitcher.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 5:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jake v. Cobra
General question:  Do those of us who pushed for Westbrook over Byrd in game 3 feel silly today?  Obviously it all worked out in the end, but has hindsight shown it to be the wrong decision?

by maledicta on Oct 9, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Jake v. Cobra
Byrd was better.  We might have swept.

Just throwing it out there.

by maledicta on Oct 9, 2007 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Jake v. Cobra
Westbrook is better than Byrd. Just throwing that out there.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 8:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Jake v. Cobra
We clubbed that issue to death.

Westbrook had a much better second half.
Performed better against above .500 teams.
Keeps the ball down.
Better chance of inducing DP's.

etc etc

by Toxicadam on Oct 9, 2007 12:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Jake v. Cobra
I'd do it again in a second.

And I also take no particular pleasure in being "right" about Byrd.  Could've been a trainwreck just as easily, and we'll never know what C.C. does on short rest.

As fans, just like Wedge does, we make our best calls and go with it.  Nothing much gets proven by one game, ever.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 9:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
What a great beginning to our second winning season of the year.

by Voltaire on Oct 9, 2007 12:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
You know who I feel bad for in all of this?

Lebron James.

It must be difficult to suffer through such an agonizing defeat while living in the den of the enemy with so much time on his hands.

by Matt in LA on Oct 9, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I agree. It'll for sure take him minutes to put his money and energies into some kind of diversion.

by ploni on Oct 9, 2007 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Yeah, me too <sarc>

I'm all for organizing a LGT trip to the "Q" to sit in the stands during a Cavs game and wear Indians tee-shirts and Pistons hats - maybe we can get Bob Feller to sit with us.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 9, 2007 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Feller? It will cost you 12 dollars each to sit with him.

by emd2k3 on Oct 9, 2007 5:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
As classless as LeBron's actions were, I will never put anything with a Piston's logo (or the logo of any Detroit team, for that matter) on my body.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 5:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I'm not sure how different the scales are, but according to Mike and Mike, last night's ratings were

34 in Cleveland
18 in New York
7 overall

sorry if this was already mentioned.

by ASP on Oct 9, 2007 1:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Man, reading the comments on PA is awesome. They're completely freaking out.

A lot of people saying they must sign Santana and stuff like "we should move Posada to first and promote a catcher" but most of them have zero idea what their minor league system looks like.

Ha ha. Suck it, New York.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 1:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Schilling moved up to game 2 vs Fausto, DiceK moved back to game 3.

by ASP on Oct 9, 2007 2:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Interesting.  I still like Fausto to win in game 2, and Westbrook and Dice-K match up pretty evenly in game 3 (I would have given Schilling the slight edge had he started).  I almost think this move benefits the Tribe more than the BoSox.

by jjfoosk on Oct 9, 2007 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Read a Boston article saying that the reason they want "Bloody Sock" to pitch game 2 is that, given the off day schedule, it allows them to flop Dice-K and Schilling as needed at the back end, so Schilling could actually pitch games 2 and 7 on extended rest, while Dice-K could pitch 3 and 6 on regular rest.

Oct 12  Beckett
Oct 13  Schilling
Oct 15  Dice - K
Oct 16  Wakefield / Lester
Oct 18  Beckett (5 days off)
Oct 20  Dice - K (4 days off)
Oct 21  Schilling (7 days off)

TV scheduling is the only reason I see to push Oct 18th date, since no travel involved.  Then you get your primetime SAT / SUN for the last two games if necessary.

by steincat on Oct 9, 2007 6:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
That's funny, because wasn't this entire schedule set up this way so fewer series would end on a weeekend - when ratings are lower?
>> I reserve the right to extend and revise my remarks.

by paul sorrento to cooperstown on Oct 10, 2007 10:07 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
George Steinbrenner's ultimatum to Torre

I've got to comment on this . . .

There is nothing in professional sports that I detest more than the type of (for lack of a better word) ungentlemenliness this episode reveals.

To publicly threaten a devoted employee (and a very successful one at that) with the loss of his livelihood is so rank and callous and . . .

I simply have no more words for this type of conduct in any realm of professional or personal relations.

How professional and upright is the Cleveland Indians' organization in comparison! The realization of this is certainly one of the greatest pleasures of the Tribe's successful 2007 season.

by ploni on Oct 9, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Agreed.  Steinbrenner's ultimatum was crass and unprofessional. In other words, something you'd expect from Steinbrenner.

The TBS commentators seemed to think the ultimatum fired up his team, but who knows what kind of added pressure it put on them last night once they were down 6-1?

by LeftyCatcher on Oct 9, 2007 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Before we get all misty-eyed about Mr. Torre, remember he's one of the highest - if not the highest - paid managers in baseball, something in the multi-mega buck range for the last 12 years (!).  He's got plenty of dough.   And Steinbrenner humiliated himself - not Joe.

If the Tribe can't win it, I'd love Torre to take over the Royals and blow the Yankees outta the water someday.  Now that would be perfect!

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 9, 2007 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Mauichuck, it's a given that professional baseball is a high-revenue industry. More power to all of them.

What I'm talking about here has nothing to do with salary levels. It's about being a mensch, being decent and respectful of everyone--even if you sign his check.

by ploni on Oct 9, 2007 4:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Totally right.

Steinbrenner is a total jackass with no class.

That is no way to treat any person.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 5:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
As harsh as this sounds, George Steinbrenner is the only person on the face of the planet for whom I feel no remorse when saying I hope he dies.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 5:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Is Art Modell still alive?  He's close to worse.

by NickFantana on Oct 9, 2007 7:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Lol, c'mon now....
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
ploni - I'm in a state of rhapsodic joy right now so ignore me if I'm less than coherent.  Here's all I'm say - the fact that Joe Torre at age 65 will be out of work does not disturb me.  And of course you're right - no one who's performed as Torre has should be publicly embarrassed by his boss.  I'm in complete agreement.  But then Torre knew who and what Steinbrenner was when he took the job.  

Has any manager left the Yankees without public embarassment?  I can't think of any off hand.

With each one of these public spectacles Steinbrenner further cements his reputation as the biggest asshole in all of sports.  Torre's a great HoF manager - Steinbrenner's merely a HoF asshole.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 9, 2007 8:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Steinbrenner's merely a HoF asshole.

I agree, mauie. Appropriately, then, I would like to propose they put up a plaque honoring Mr. Steinbrenner as such . . . in the Cooperstown men's room, third stall on the left. Not only would it give credit where credit is due but it also would make a handy place to stick our used gum when we come to visit.

All told, I'm grateful to Dolan and Shapiro and Antonetti (and the players, too) for their professional manner throughout the season (How's the knee, Milton?). There is no way I could follow the Tribe if Yankee shenanigans were the norm in Cleveland.

by ploni on Oct 9, 2007 10:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
an asshle that has lost money to see his team win though.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
  1. Steinbrenner is cooking the books if he says the Yankees lost money.  Ever.

  2. If indeed, he is not cooking the books, then he is either more shrewd or luckier than Art Modell, who lost money through mismanagement, had a sold out stadium of 72,000 fans every week, and somehow still never won the big one.

by woodsmeister on Oct 10, 2007 9:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Great minds think alike and post at the same time.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 10, 2007 9:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Joe - now's not the time to start any internecine crap but - Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for ~$12M in 1973 they are now worth more than a giga-buck.  Tell me exactly how did Mr. Steinbrenner lose money.
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 10, 2007 9:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
More media reaction, though not of the mainstream variety:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=588

Just thought this was pretty cool.

by ManchildinBeantown on Oct 9, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Ryan, you have an absolute gift for winding up a complex narrative in a really succinct way.  There were so many story lines around this series that needed to be gathered together, the short rest/regular rest, CC vs Byrd theme, the Wedge managing style, the Torre story, the Yankees baseball model, the individual players stories...You captured it all in one place-- thanks!  

by MTF on Oct 9, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
In reading the various other baseball blogs, it's pretty obvious how fortunate we are.  Cheers to Ryan and Jay, big time.

Jay, regarding the Esquire pieces: I assume they continue throughout the postseason.  They've been so much fun to read (I particularly enjoyed Scott's line this morning: "And that's all the gloating I intend to do... In other words, fuck the motherfucking Yankees."  That is clean-off-the-monitor funny.

But we need more Jay on that blog!  You mentioned that it's not easy, but know that it's getting read.  My older brother and father are big fans already; my bro says that you write "like Bill Simmons would write if he ever knew what he was talking about."  

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
What MTF and Tabler said.

I mostly lurk now, but truly enjoy your summations Ryan.

At LGT even the trolls are better than most.

by LeftyCatcher on Oct 9, 2007 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
That is true.  Those asshole Yankees fans, they weren't so bad compared to other asshole Yankees fans.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Hey, I really appreciate the encouragement.

I think my entries have been running almost as long as Scott's and sometimes longer, but the last couple of days, his have been getting sent in first, so they get posted first.  Different sleep and work schedules.  If you check back later in the day, my stuff gets inserted then.

We're going to try to do it all month, if we can survive it!  I'm assuming (and praying) that each round has to get easier, with half as many games to cover.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
On that note, you really owe it to yourselves to check out the latest entry, now fully updated, which must set the new high-water mark for a national publication dumping on Jeter.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 11:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The Kansas City Star's Joe Posnanski blogs on Captain Clutch

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/09/jeters-never-prosper/

Joe is a Cleveland guy - check out some of his other work.  Love reading him.  If the PD would get him back with Pluto, we would be in newspaper heaven.

by IndyDave on Oct 10, 2007 7:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Haiku at the end of Rob Neyer's column (up at sonsofsamhorn.com)

Sizemore rounding third
Here's Damon's throw to the plate
Bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce

by cheech99 on Oct 9, 2007 2:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Another interesting headline today: Tigers to retain Pudge Rodriguez for $13 million.

The Indians can't pay a 36-year old catcher with a .294 OBP $13 million.  And you know what's awesome?  Our front office is smart enough not to do that even if we did have the money!

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 3:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I look forward to another season of Tom Hamilton pointing our Pudge's indifference to blocking balls in the dirt. And maybe mentioning that he walked 9 times (!!) all year this year.

Tigers bring back Pudge. White Sox bring back Dye and Pierzynski. Can the Twins jump into the fray and bring back Punto and Rondell White?

by JesseAK on Oct 9, 2007 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I was shocked to see this.  Good to see that one of our main division rivals has seen fit to lock up $13 million in a guy whose slugging percentage has precipitously declined every single year he's been in Detroit (.510 to .420), not to mention the atrocious OBP that has already been mentioned.

But he's an all-star!

by Pronktastic on Oct 9, 2007 4:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Not necessarily true.  First, the real cost is $10 million, since Pudge had a $3 million buyout.

Is he worth the $10 million?  Depends on their options.  But it's not easy to get any healthy player on a one-year contract.  I wouldn't be surprised if he had bounce-back year at the plate, either.

I'm not saying this move helps them, but it's not as stupid as it might first appear.

by Jay on Oct 10, 2007 2:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clutch
Wait...I'm confused.  An occassional hit in a key situation does not make a player "clutch."  Clutch is something you're born with.  A born leader.  A dragon slayer.  A person who comes up at the right time and relishes the moment and delivers his team and his fans into ecstasy.  A person who can do so in the biggest media market.  Derek Jeter does not get "clutch hits," Derek Jeter IS clutch.  But wait, he did not deliver this time, in fact, he failed miserably.  How can this be?  If he is not clutch, then who is?  Does this mean the death of clutch?  Do we want to live in such a world?  Will the sun rise in the West?  Will Santa stay home this year?  Impossible.  Yankee fans and the media are all better off blaming A-Rod, who is not clutch, and do it fast and do it loud.  Do it for the kids.            

by Fredward on Oct 9, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A-Rod
Yankee numbers for the series:

Damon     .278/.316/.611

Jeter        .176/.176/.176

Abreu       .267/.353/.533

A-Rod      .267/.353/.467

Posada     .133/.235/.200

Matsui      .182/.438/.182

Cano        .333/.375/.800

Cabrera    .188/.188/.375

Mient.       .000/.143/.000

While the Indians had 6 players with OBPs over .400, the Yankees had just one (Matsui), primarily because he had 5 BBs.  Jeter, Posada, Cabrera, and Mientkiewicz were terrible.  The most striking feature to me is that no one really hit Indians pitching well; Abreu and Damon did alright, but didn't have a big series by any stretch.  Alleged "choker" A-Rod outhit most everyone else in the lineup, save Cano.  

This was a team that not only led MLB in runs scored, but was 76 runs ahead of the next closest team (Philly).  Team offensive stats for the regular season were .290/.366/.463.  Don't wait up for the credit the Indians pitching staff deserves.

by maledicta on Oct 9, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Text of my email to ESPN Ombudsperson Lee Ann Schrieber:

Ms. Schreiber,

I wanted to thank ESPN for all of the great coverage of how the Cleveland Indians were able to dispatch of the New York Yankees in the ALDS ... oh wait, nevermind. There really isn't any. It's all woe-be-the-Yankees. Lovely wall-to-wall Joe Torre love fest.

I especially love the splash page picture of Grady Sizemore rounding- oh, I see, it's Joe Torre's lovely visage again. Gee, I wonder what the hell he's going to do? Let's all sit around and speculate about a manager charged with filling out a $200 million dollar lineup card.

I wish for once you East Coast Luddites would realize that baseball exists beyond the boundaries of the Acela route from South Station to Grand Central, and that talent cultivated from a smart-spending and dealing GM can beat a worn-down roster of fading millionaires in nearly every instance.

Yanks for the memories, assholes.

by emd2k3 on Oct 9, 2007 3:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Nice job.  I knew that the Yankees lost, but I wasn't sure who beat them or if baseball even gets played once the Yankees lose.  Who do the Red Sox play?

by Fredward on Oct 9, 2007 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Don't they just get a bye into the World Series to face the Cubs or the Dodgers?
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 4:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
In nearly every instance? Don't get cocky now.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
This series was (at least to me) never in doubt. That the general sports media treats as "The Indians shock the Yankees" is total BS.

I give you the wonderful Jerry Crasnick.

Do you even want to read the story after the headline and first 2 graphs? Ugh.

We were the better-equipped team.

Now, against the Red Sox, I'm not so sure.

by emd2k3 on Oct 10, 2007 9:30 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Question:

Do the replace Peralta at shortstop shouts continue, or is that done for at least a year? I know everyone here noticed Peralta's performance in this series, but unfortunately he will not get credit from the casual observer with Captain Clutch playing in the same series

by Roger Dorn on Oct 9, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I loved that stop of Abreu's one hopper late in the game. Staying down on that ball was a true MLB play.

I like JP, but I think Astrocab may be better at SS. That forces you to move JP, which is always a challenge. I don't won't to get into that, I'd rather enjoy the moment...

-Bo

by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 3:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I don't see how his great offensive performance in this series has any bearing on the decision as to whether or not he starts and 3rd or at SS.  He's still gonna be hitting.  

by maledicta on Oct 9, 2007 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
It should quiet anyone that wants to trade Peralta. That's just retarded talk.

As far as moving him to 3B. I was 100% against this mid-season (when Asdrubal came up and people started to throw it out there) .. but now I am kind of warming up to it.

Jhonny has really improved over the past few years on defense.. but he has certain moments where he gets lazy. Something that is just unacceptable for the SS position.

by Toxicadam on Oct 9, 2007 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I don't care what ya'll say, I like Jhonny Peralta.

by afh4 on Oct 9, 2007 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Moi aussi
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I'm wearing a shirt of his right now.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008.

by Gradyforpresident on Oct 9, 2007 4:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I have never understood the Peralta hate this year to be honest.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I love the high and mightiness now that Peralta is doing well. Not you in particular, Joe (or any of the above posters), but a lot of people who were part of the Peralta-bashing crowd are now firmly planted on his bandwagon. Hell, the guy did struggle, and the thing to remember is the context of his struggling. The whole offence was in a 2-month-long skid in mid-August, Jhonny was taking terrible atbats, and we had our eye to AAA for a slick-fielding shortstop who was tearing it up. He was a convenient lightning-rod for criticism and now it looks like everyone is seeing the error of their ways.

And there's no way I can picture him diving head-long for balls at 3B...I just can't see it.

by supermarioelia on Oct 10, 2007 10:14 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Absolutely.  And the "lack of intensity" some have complained about, the whole fat shortstop thing, if it exists at all, is synonymous with his cool under pressure.  Remember how he broke open that game against Detroit in September, winning it almost single-handedly?  Jhonny might be the most anti-choking player we've got.

by Jay on Oct 10, 2007 11:22 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Correcting myself ... he can't be ahead of Carmona, who was visibly giggling a little after giving up a home run to Melky.

by Jay on Oct 10, 2007 11:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I finally got around to reading Game One's gamethread last night (is it friday yet?).

You've got a post burried in there, when people were freaking about using the COT in a blowout, something to the effect of:

'It doesn't matter, Carmona's going 9 tomorrow anyway.'

I had a nice hindsight chuckle.

by Brick. on Oct 10, 2007 11:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Very prescient.

Mine was not as daring, but still, during the 6th inning in game four I posted regarding Borowski:

"He is going to make you puke, and we will still win."

Meh, guess that's just about every time out.

by tabler84 on Oct 10, 2007 11:52 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
That was one of my favorite moments of the series.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008.

by Gradyforpresident on Oct 10, 2007 12:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Those people annoy me as well. These are people who think offense and defense are equal. They are obviously wrong. It's much closer to 75% and 25% and I still might be being a little generous to defense. In addition, they just have no concept or comprehension of positional value. A .770 OPS SS is above average. A .770 OPS 3b is not. And a .590 OPS 2b should never swing a bat again in his life.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Hopefully in two years we won't though. Blake is there out of need. He's not the ideal 3b, or even close. He's average and that's fine for now.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
he's there out of man-love, not need.  dollars to donuts healthy marte posts at least 770 ops this year.  and as you mentioned above, it's only "average" for a SS, not a 3B.  

by emil minty on Oct 10, 2007 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I said it was above average for a SS. It's average for a 3b. Read more carefully please.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
My favorite memories of last night-besides Garko shotgunning two bud lights-was Raffy B blowing away Giambi and Damon. It wasn't even close with Giambi.

Before we suggest anointing Jensen Lewis or chase Mariano Rivera or anyone else, why wouldn't we use Bettancourt?

-Bo

by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Fine, but who replaces Betancourt?  We need an ace to pitch in high-leverage spots, and we have that now.  Our non-closers are far more important than our closer.

by tabler84 on Oct 9, 2007 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The first true Bill James relief ace....Rafael Betancourt!

by Roger Dorn on Oct 9, 2007 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
How cool would that be? Break free from these silly conventions of one guy always pitching the 9th inning. It would be incredible.

by supermarioelia on Oct 10, 2007 10:21 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
What about Raffy P? Was he not in "high leverage situations" last night?
-Bo

by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 5:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
With a 3 run lead the 8th inning is a higher leverage situation than the 9th, as Betancourt received more WPA than Borowski last night.

I give credit to Wedge for changing things up and using Perez in game 2 instead of Borowski as he did often in the regular season. Maybe it had to do with the left handed hitters up in the 10th and 11th, but still it was the correct decision. Does anyone know who was warming to pitch in the 12th if necessary? Betancourt or Borowski?

by oxforddave on Oct 9, 2007 5:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I see what you mean, but the lineup for the ninth began Jeter, Abreu, Rodriguez, & ended with Posada.  The 8th featured less potent hitters.  I think that WPA gets it wrong in this instance.

Damn good thing Betancourt went out there in the 8th against in threw strikes, huh?

by homelytourist on Oct 9, 2007 6:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Great game.  I have to knock the analysts on one thing.  All the kudos for Wedge staying the course and sticking to his plan & not changing from the way we got there are wrong in one regard -- that's not what he did during the regular season.  Through the year, remember this?, management was quick to dump people who were not living up to expectations -- Lee, Barf, Trot -- and readily brought in or moved up people who were performing -- Fausto, Asdrubal, Lofton, Gutz, really the whole Circle of Trust.  These changes were the case until the team found that place, in mid-August, when the pieces clicked together and it started scoring runs at will.  Last night Wedge saw what to do, and he made the right call, and that took guts with everybody second-guessing him.  But these stories create some impression of Wedge as a guy on automatic pilot who wouldn't change anything, and I think that's a major misconception of him.  When something needs changing, he tinkers.

by sullidav on Oct 9, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
When something needs changing, he tinkers.

He does tinker, but from what I've seen, Wedge can move at the pace of an ocean liner when it comes to making a personnell decision.

Memories can decieve, but I seem to recall lots of screaming in this forum and others for weeks before Wedge finally started replacing Nixon with Guti full time. I think the Cabrera for Barfield switch went permanent a little faster, though we were also in the very bottom of that midsummer slump.

I also remember we also had at least a month of dreading pretty much every Cliff Lee start until that move was made as well.

--
"Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."

by vbc3 on Oct 9, 2007 10:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
You can't be too quick in benching players.  You have to balance the virtues of stability - including decreased anxiety and internecine conflict - against the possibility of a major upgrade.  I give Wedge/Shaprio hight grades in figuring this one out.
     I only wish Shapiro did better with his trades.  I'm afraid Barfield for Kouzmanoff will prove to be another poor decision.
spinske

by spinske on Oct 9, 2007 11:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Give Barfield/Kouzmanoff some time here. Barfield is still a plus defender, young and with some track record of being able to hit. One bad year does not a career make.
Dealing with it.

by fwembt on Oct 9, 2007 11:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Are you serious? I can't think of a bigger trade magician than Shaprio.

However, I do think that Barfield for Kouzmanoff was a bad trade. Barfield is an absolutely useless baseball player. It's ok though. Shapiro gets like 9 more stupid trade passes.

The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Pretty sure this is what I just heard on SportsCenter:

"The Indians, again, contrary to subsequent coverage, did win that series."

A little joking self-criticism from the world leader ... my oh my.

by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 11:55 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I also heard last night on Sportscenter Steve Levy talking to Buster Olney during the six pack of questions all on the Yankees or something like that. At the end Levy says, "Okay, Buster we will have you back later this week as long as we can talk about the team that actually won this series a little."

Buster's response, "A little."

by Roger Dorn on Oct 10, 2007 9:22 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
there really wasn't anything self-deprecating about their tone, though.  

by emil minty on Oct 10, 2007 10:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
YAY, TRIBE! SWEEEEET!!!

I was stuck in Dallas the past few days and it turns out Texans enjoy their football a lot more than baseball.

by DixonCayne on Oct 10, 2007 12:03 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The Yankees whould co-opt the Vatican route to picking a new manager. Build a small brick building just outside Yankee Stadium, go in there and deliberate for a few days and then light a fire and watch all the fans and media cheer as they see smoke come from the chimney.

by Toxicadam on Oct 10, 2007 12:39 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071003&sportCat=mlb

Check this link out...

Predictions from Page 2 of Eastcoast Sports Network (ESPN).

"2. Joe Borowski
Some key stats to consider: 65.2 innings, 94 baserunners, 8 blown saves and a 5.07 ERA. Yikes. This is going to end badly. Can't you see Borowski slumping toward the Indians' dugout as one of the Yankees is rounding the bases with his right arm raised up, the Yankees are charging out of the dugout and all the Yankee fans are going bonkers? We're headed for a Red Sox-Yankees Armageddon in 10 days. It's going to happen. Start stockpiling canned goods and beef jerky now."

Is that how it went down?  Not sure... LOL Losers!!

by lesterjl on Oct 10, 2007 6:12 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Look, if we are going to nitpick every prediction we should probably all call ourselves out on last year. The fact of the matter is that the scenario described above is far from out of the realm of possibility.
Dealing with it.

by fwembt on Oct 10, 2007 8:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The point is, we are not living in last year and we beat the Yankees outright this year.  It feels good knowing that we can prove these "experts" wrong.  The Yankees have been living in the past, as well as the rest of the media and this team is plowing through predictions and media driven adversity with the poise and confidence of seasoned veterans.  Live in last year if you wish, and we will live for this post-season.

by lesterjl on Oct 10, 2007 9:26 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Wow, Suzyn Waldman crying -- literally crying -- about Joe Torre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m6CRBsWb3U

Fwiw, I like Joe Torre.  But wow.

by tabler84 on Oct 10, 2007 11:24 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
I just love me some Suzyn Waldman!  Ya think we can get her to do the Sawx/Indians series?
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Oct 10, 2007 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
This thread is wandering around aimlessly, so I'll contribute this:

Gammons Gets It.

 The saddest part of the Indians-Yankees series is that the story became Torre and Steinbrenner and A-Rod, not a Cleveland team that won more games than the Yankees during the season. With a payroll half the size of the Red Sox's, the Indians matched Boston in wins. They moved two kids named Asdrubal Cabrera and Franklin Gutierrez into key positions in mid-August (after which they had the best record in the league), and they took Carmona out of Buffalo and watched him develop into one of the three or four best pitchers in the league. It's a shame that the swarm of bugs became the story of Game 2, the reason Chamberlain lost. When Carmona got to the Indians' bench after pitching during The Plague, they scraped more than 50 bugs off his neck and face, but Carmona didn't get distracted.

by emd2k3 on Oct 10, 2007 2:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Must have been all the pitching Carmona has done in the jungle. He's used to it.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
There is nothing racial about being from a tropical/jungle island. Santo Domingo, DR is next to a giant jungle. Check google earth.

by KevinV on Oct 10, 2007 5:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
a joke only, referring to a regular here who was accused of racism for something similarly innocuous.  which is i think what jram was referring to originally.

by emil minty on Oct 10, 2007 6:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
and if it wasn't what he was referring to, he probably thinks i'm a total dick.

by emil minty on Oct 10, 2007 6:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
That wasn't what I was rerring to specifically. I dealth with something similar somewhere else. But I could tell you thought I was obviously being ironic
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 6:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
It's stereotyping of the highest degree. The Yankee fans who had the audacity to suggest that Rivera, Perez, and Carmona had an advantage in that situation drove me insane.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 6:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Um ... still ironic, right?

by Jay on Oct 10, 2007 7:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
i think it's different to (1) wonder, knowing fausto's background, whether an agrarian upbringing near a jungle desensitized him somewhat to mosquitoes and the like, and (2) notice that the bugs aren't affecting several relievers and assume, generically, that it's because they're hispanic.  

i feel like you're probably talking about the former, and joe the latter.  

did your comments on pinstripe get deleted?

by emil minty on Oct 10, 2007 9:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
Huh?
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 10:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: ALDS Roundup
The last time I checked, neither Akron nor Buffalo are really 'jungle-esque', Joe.

Are you aiming to get banned?

However, Garko did make light of playing in the Carribean and being afraid of some of the giant bugs there , so maybe that's where the resolve comes from.

by emd2k3 on Oct 10, 2007 2:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Back to George
Is anyone else around here old enough to remember the Cleveland Pipers basketball team?

George owned that franchise and I can't recall if it was in the ABA or what.  

The team went belly up and George notified the players by putting a notice on the door to the locker room.  What a guy.

One of the players worked for our company and he was devastated.   That's George.

by Cactus Jack on Oct 10, 2007 6:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Back to George
Oh! That reminds me. I have a great Steinbrenner story. 1997 ALDS game 4, you know the Sandy Alomar homer off Rivera game. I was fortunate enough to be sitting in the luxury box behind home plate in the box directly next to George himself. Anyway, he was sitting inside of course so that no one could see him, but we were able to veer in and catch his reactions. As soon as Alomar's homer went over the right field wall, George slamnmed his fists and the counter and took his people and left immediately. I have to say that it was one of the more satisfying moments in my life.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 10, 2007 9:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Back to George
My apologies for the grammar and spelling mistakes, didn't proofread.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 10, 2007 9:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Back to George
Well of course, I, the Methusala of LGT, remember. Here's a good little blurb on them.  Notice that Steinbrenner signed Jerry Lucas to the team and was a complete dick with his coach - BTW the first black head coach of the era.

For some reason I remember them playing in something called the "Industrial League" but couldn't find any references.  Any way this is where our boy George started his career as a HoF asshole.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 11, 2007 4:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Constantly updated CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Start posting about the Indians »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Junkballer_small
Anatomy of a Wasted Season

Recent FanPosts

Dv-pabst_small
Your 2009 American League All-Stars
Hansonnnnn_small
In regards to Victor Martinez and Ryan Garko
Junkballer_small
The Struggles of Uncle Jhonny
Burgandy_1__small
Is Our Fans Learning?
Indiansfan-possibleavatarforlgt_minorleagueball__small
It's Time to Begin Working Toward 2010!
Hand_small
Shapiro's Latin American Endeavors
Small
Seeking Jamie Moyer
Jaketaylor_small
Start it with Shapiro
Jaret_small
Kerry Wood - 3 and out?

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

Featured Poll

Poll
Biggest 2009 Breakout
Asdrubal Cabrera
84 votes
Jhonny Peralta
63 votes
Anthony Reyes
51 votes
Jensen Lewis
4 votes
Matt LaPorta
70 votes
David Huff
25 votes
Scott Lewis
14 votes
Aaron Laffey
12 votes
Tony Sipp
13 votes
Ben Francisco
28 votes
Travis Hafner
96 votes

460 votes | Poll has closed

BUY THE BOOK

Indians Annual 2009 from Maple Street Press

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Wedge Won't be Fired Midseason
Martin Shines at AAA Syracuse
Gotta love the media
Herges DFA, Abreu Up
Independence Day Rumor Rundown
View From the Booth: Carmona to the Clippers
Meloan dealt to Rays
Newsflash: Zombie Marte Sighted by Fangraphs
Nyjer Morgan is a Valuable Asset...
Indians international prospect ages three years overnight

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini

SweetBabooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Sweet Baboo, now with glitter


Managers

Seagull_on_sale_pier_small Ryan

Walter_small Jay

Authors

3444ant_black_small APV

47b8dd28b3127cceb64839d9746800000026102bauwjrq3za_small afh4

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports