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Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi

The Indians today made their first-ever big league signing out of the Japan League, inking renowned closer Masahide Kobayashi to a two-year deal for $6.25 million, with a club option for 2010.  The righthander will collect $3 million in both 2008 and 2009, with a $3.5 million club option or $250K buyout in 2010.  In a market that has guaranteed two to three times as much to middling relievers, the Indians seem to have scored yet another value signing, although not one entirely without risk.

Full story per Indians.com and ESPN.com.

Kobayashi, 33, was Chiba Lotte's number-one draft pick in 1999, and has amassed a 2.79 career ERA over 445 games and 580 innings.  His 229 career saves put him third on the all-time list of the Japan League, behind Shingo Takatusi (289), who pitched briefly for the White Sox before returning in 2006, and Kaz Sasaki (252), who is also the career saves leader for the Seattle Mariners.  Similar to Kobayashi, Sasaki came over at age 32, signing a five-year, $30 million deal in 2000.  Despite great success in Seattle, he asked to be released from the final year of his deal (worth $9 million) to return to Japan with his family, who were unhappy in the U.S.

While not apparently a big strikeout guy, Kobayashi's fastball reportedly sits in the mid-90's, and he has a deceptive delivery that has been compared (perhaps lazily) to Hideki Okajima's.  Truth is, probably none of us has seen this guy, and he wasn't exactly on our radar.  As an unrestricted free agent, Kobayashi was free to negotiate with all teams and not required to go through the well-publicized posting system, in which teams bid for exclusive negotiating rights.  He reportedly would like to be a closer but wasn't going to insist on it, a sentiment that echoes comments from Joe Borowski a year ago.

UPDATE:  Keith Law weighs in here ...

Kobayashi has good stuff, although his strikeout rates in Japan were so-so due to his lack of a real out pitch. He works with a plus fastball in the 93-96 mph range that he gets on top of, getting good downhill plane, and he has a solid-average slider in the mid-80s with a hard downward break but little tilt; he'll also flash a forkball on occasion, which is a good fit given his release point and could be a good weapon for him against lefties. He's shown excellent control, with just 24 unintentional walks in his last 146 1/3 innings in Japan.
This move represents a continued focus on building quality depth in the bullpen, with every reliever from the Indians' late-season roster also under contract for 2008 and a number of prospects available in the minors on an as-needed basis -- "as needed" being synonymous with "as others are jettisoned."  While this move makes a trade for more bullpen help rather unlikely, it doesn't preclude another free agent signing.  There is nothing to stop the Indians from trading any of their current relievers if they find themselves with more relievers than they can use in the big-leagues or stash in Buffalo.

Okay, now ... you might as well start getting those Usual Suspects and hot-dog-eating jokes out of your systems right now.  Let's just hope this guy can eat some pie this season.

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Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
So pen at this stage looks like Borowski, the Raffies, Jensen, Fultz, Mastny, and Takehiro Kobayashi.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2007 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
<3 Shapiro.

I'm sure he wasn't crazy about the load we put on the Raffies this past year. Another arm is just what we need.

I'll be curious to see what happens to guys like Sowers/Lee/Laffey if they don't make the starting rotation. You think one would be kept on as long relief .. but I'm not sure if there is room now.

by Toxicadam on Nov 20, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I've been clicking the link of Indians.com for the press conference, nothing is happening.  Anyone have a live link?

by NickFantana on Nov 20, 2007 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Reporter:  What do you like about Cleveland?

Masa (through translator):  A beautiful lake......, the Indians.......

by bewwolv on Nov 20, 2007 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
The audio on that link is weak. Any other links available?

by ploni on Nov 20, 2007 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Glancing over the statistics briefly, I am impressed by his K/BB rate.  Obviously you take Japanese League stats with a grain of salt but it certainly can't hurt, especially if he throws as fast as some here have indicated.

by NickFantana on Nov 20, 2007 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I liked him in the press conference, has a sense of humor and seemed pretty comfortable, despite the sort of awkward situation.

#30 it is!!!

by JPFrost on Nov 20, 2007 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
One of my ideas to begin with here
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 4:21 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
C-
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
What would you grade it had we declined the option on Byrd?

by Jay on Nov 20, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
C
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
So I guess you were actually almost neutral on the Byrd thing, since he's a key player, and keeping him had almost no effect on your overall grade.

by Jay on Nov 20, 2007 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I wasn't a horrible (WTH) move but its wasn't a (WICBTS) move that puts us over the top.  I would rather seen us use his money on a Left Fielder but it isn't the worst money spent either.  It did have an impact on my grade so, over all I think his resigning is a negative but not a strong negative.
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
A blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.
"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" -- New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 20, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I've been tough on E5, but I'll give him credit for that. I've never even heard of Masa before now, so E5 deserves credit for even knowing who he is.

Masa is a sweet name, btw.

Tressel Owned Carr

by gahnki on Nov 20, 2007 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
There is very little I don't like about this deal.  $6.25M and a 2-year commitment represents a very small amount of risk associated with most free agent signings these days.

by APV on Nov 20, 2007 4:46 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Agreed.  One might not love it, but I can't see why somebody would be against it.  I happen to think this is a fantastic risk/reward signing.

by Thommy on Nov 20, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I can see the highlight DVD release next year:

"Jacobs Field Era Indians Closers: Bringing the Hea(r)t (attacks) from Mesa to Masa"

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 20, 2007 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Or the ESPN Home page "YES MASA!!" Kobayashi closes out Game 5 for the World Champion Indians.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 20, 2007 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
LOL

I like yours better, for both comedy and predicted outcome.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 20, 2007 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Frankly, even if he sucks I think Shapiro thought to himself "Let's Go Tribe! is going to have a great time with this."
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
You didn't hear?  Mark Shapiro posts here under the moniker "E5."

Frankly, Mark is very hard on himself.  

by nickjs21 on Nov 20, 2007 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Now that would be absolutely brilliant.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 20, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
He's been very bitter since we removed the comma between Go and Tribe!  You know Mark.  That Ivy League education never rests.

by nickjs21 on Nov 20, 2007 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Come to think of it, I sincerely wonder whether anyone from the front office makes its way 'round these parts.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 20, 2007 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
It'd be cool if they did.
Tressel Owned Carr

by gahnki on Nov 20, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
They do but that doesn't mean the post here or even give any thought to what everyone says.
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
How do you know that?
I swear, next year is it.

by Brad D on Nov 20, 2007 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Isn't it obvious, E5 IS from the front office ....
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 21, 2007 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
it doesn't matter...none of this matters E5.

by hans on Nov 20, 2007 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
There's a Bob Wickman/closer/hotdog joke in there somwhere....

by mikebrowns26 on Nov 20, 2007 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
didn't have to give up anything but money, how can it hurt.  
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 20, 2007 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Especially when it's not your money.
Apparently headed towards a solid 2nd and 3rd in the LGT Fantasy Leagues. Eh...

by mjmarble on Nov 20, 2007 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Shingo Takatsu. Sorry I'm taking Japanese so it stood out.

by Joe on Nov 20, 2007 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
If you are taking Japanese, you'll know that the interpreter was having real problems.  Not that Kobayashi really had much to say anyway, but the interpreter was mangling what he actually did get out of his mouth.  The Indians really ought to spring for a bi-cultural, bi-lingual person for these press conferences, if only to put their new hires in a better light.  Maybe it was just timing.  I hope it wasn't the cost. $1,000 a day will probably get you an honest to goodness real professional interpreter.  No need to speak Japanese to realize how uncomfortable that press conference looked. Poor Kobayashi looked like he was getting about 15% of what was going on.

by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 21, 2007 4:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I don't know how many watched the 25 minute press conference on indians.com but the one thing I took from it was that Kobayashi speaks more than a bit of English.  I'm not saying he's close to fluent or anything, but Shapiro made a few comments directly to him (bypassing the interpreter) which he responded back to.

I've done a bit of ESL teaching and judging by the sss of responses, I get the feeling he'll be able to communicated a bit right from the start with those in the clubhouse.  Plus he's going to be going through a pretty hardcore immersion program given the plethora of Japanese in Cleveland.   I don't know his travel or scholastic background, but for someone who's never worked in the US I was fairly impressed.

Apparently headed towards a solid 2nd and 3rd in the LGT Fantasy Leagues. Eh...

by mjmarble on Nov 21, 2007 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I agree completely.  I got the impression he understood a lot of what was going on.  In some cases, he laughed at questions before waiting for the translation, and it seemed in some cases he brushed his interpreter off.

by bewwolv on Nov 21, 2007 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Impressions are misleading. For years I've sat in meetings with Japanese colleagues with the same knowing looking look on their faces, yet understand only haphazardly.  "Yes, yes.  I understand." Three months later the price and goals are different and you wonder where the revenue went.  Shapiro appeared to enunciate more clearly for Kobayashi, which may have helped, but he looked pretty tentative.  But this is a great opportunity for him.  

by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 21, 2007 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Kobayashi can become the Indians Kazuhiro Sasaki for a few years and at the prices that Closers are going for Shapiro should be arrested because he is now a felon.
Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 7:11 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Pretty sure we have an Unqualified Rave here from E5.

Also, see above:  A nuanced judgment.

Big day here on the blog.

by Jay on Nov 20, 2007 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Mario, what are you studying for? I'm studying for the GRE, and man it sucks. Algebra and geometry and sentence constructions don't have anything to do with the IR programs I'm applying to - but that's American higher education for you. Hooray, irrelevant tests!
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 20, 2007 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Oh just general exam studying. I'm leaning away from trying my hand at the USMLE Step 1, only because I would rather spend my summer reviewing clinical info rather than pointless embryology and histology. That's right, I said pointless.

by supermarioelia on Nov 21, 2007 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Ooooooh you're gonna get crushed!

Embryology helps you understand many congenital diseases - many.  It helps you link one clinical finding with another.  For example, many congenital pediatric neurologic diseases are linked to dermatologic findings.  Any idea why?  If you're familiar with the embryo derm plate you'll see.

Focusing too much on current clinical theory is a mistake.  Medicine is a dynamic science - clinical stuff that is considered absolutely infallible will be disregard two of three decades from now.  For example - every gastroenterologist I knew in school was totally convinced that peptic ulcers were linked to a bio-chemical imperfection in the stomach lining.  They would laugh if you suggested a bacteriological origin.  

It's just like baseball bro.  Get the fundamentals down pat and the rest is easy.  Know the origin of the various anatomical components and you'll be a star on rounds!

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 21, 2007 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Can't argue with the anatomy point of course. I'd be a fool to.

As for the embryology, of course they help to explain congenital abnormalities, and the principles that are used to explain those I am very familiar with. It's the nitty gritty details I'll pass on for now.

Alright stop responding to my posts because I'm wasting precious time.

by supermarioelia on Nov 21, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
...no word on Kaiser Soze's status, though some teams are concerned about his habit of murdering people.

Try the veal, and be sure to tip the waitress.

by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 20, 2007 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Interesting note in his bio ... he was in once in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 21, 2007 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Was that before or after he was picking beans in Guatemala?

by Pronktastic on Nov 21, 2007 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Not sure, ... but there's no truth to the rumor that  he called Bob Wickman "a big fat guy, I mean, like, orca fat."
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 21, 2007 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
on board for loving this signing.

can't wait to read more about it after i get caught up on the latest in futbol vs. football and the difference between a carmona inning and a miller inning.

by Brick. on Nov 20, 2007 9:02 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Look, you can all keep kissing Shapiro's butt, but commenter GfromArizona on the PD blog knows the score:
Here we go again with another cruel Shapiro hoax. In 2005, it was Jiminez, 2006,Mota, 2007,Hernandez, and for 2008 we have the latest Japanese flash-in-the-pan as our new relief savior. When is el-stupido Shapiro going to wake up and realize that he should be pursueing a BIG bat for LF, and forget the ill-fated "platoon" system comprised of mediocre spare parts.?????? The Tribe has an abundance of pitching in Buffalo and Akron to fill any BP need. Shapiro's priorities should be (1) LF ....can you spell H-u-n-t-e-r ??(2) getting Hafner's head squared away ( 40 HR's or he's gone ) (3) improving 3B production, (4) removing all question marks from the rotation (sign/trade/play out 2008 w/ CCS, Byrd's age, fit Miller and Lofgren into the rotation, dump Lee, anoint Laffey as a starter, etc). (5) Brilliantly realize that we have many minor leaguers who are blocked by young guys already starring for the Tribe. They should be packaged in trade, along with Michaels, Dellucci, Blake if necessary, et al, to improve the team. NONE of those will ever have an impact on the Tribe, now or 3 years from now. I can only hope that the Cleveland fans will demand more, and not be content with a 2007 lineup that won the division, but failed miserably vs BRS. It's not the regular season Shapiro, it's the playoffs that counts, and you failed all Tribe fans miserably. He should be fired, winning Exec of the Year or not. What a joke Shapiro is !!!!!

(Pretty sure fair use applies to let me post this entire comment under a "total idiocy" provision.)

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 20, 2007 9:58 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Can we ban that guy in advance of him finding LGT?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 20, 2007 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Actually this guy would be great to have around.  Talk about your devil's advocate.  This guy is Lucifer personified.

Ya think it would help is somebody told this douche nozzle that the Tribe was the second - and only by a whisker - best team in all of baseball last year?  Probably not.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 20, 2007 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Thankyou for saying douche nozzle. Spit chocolate milk all over the World Development report i'm reading. Thankyou.

by TheVanillaGorilla on Nov 20, 2007 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I think we should bring him here as a reminder of what "out there" can be like.
I swear, next year is it.

by Brad D on Nov 20, 2007 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Fair points are made there but Shapiro doesn't deserve to be fired.  I believe most of the issues this team has can be traced back to ownership.  You pay good money for a team, why not invest in not only future prospects but the current team.  One Dolan owner has proven that he runs a total joke of an organization and if Shapiro was not in place we could also be a joke right now.

A real Left Fielder is a must for this team.  These platoons just do not work out of the long haul and does nothing but block your young prospects.  Its also true we can not rest on what we accomplished last year as that will mean nothing come March.  Detroit has already upgraded their team and they were not bad last year.  We can not simply think we will be as good this year as we were last year.  Hafner had a very down year last year but you don't know if he is going to bounce back.  Victor Martinez had a bounce back year as a catcher but you simply can't count those chickens before they hatch.  We are in great position to do something for this organization that can benefit us not only this year but long term if we proceed with caution but also fortitude.  This signing is a good one and hopefully will be as great of an asset as Dice K and Okie were for the Red Sox.  Patience is a virtue but Champions don't need it.

Jason Bay, Kelly Shoppach and Dustin Pedroia (ROY) these are some of my favorite players. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 20, 2007 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Well you had to figure that at least one LGT poster would support the majority of the above post.

by supermarioelia on Nov 20, 2007 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
lmao..i cant even type more
Tressel Owned Carr

by gahnki on Nov 20, 2007 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Every village has one.
I swear, next year is it.

by Brad D on Nov 20, 2007 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
well, we've got a couple of those...
Apparently headed towards a solid 2nd and 3rd in the LGT Fantasy Leagues. Eh...

by mjmarble on Nov 21, 2007 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Only a couple?
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 21, 2007 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
So what you're saying is:

Step 1:  We don't know what to expect from every player next year.

Step 2:  We should look to improve our team if that opportunity presents itself.

Pretty basic.

by nickjs21 on Nov 21, 2007 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I almost forgot.

Step 3:  Make her open the box.

by nickjs21 on Nov 21, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I mean you can't discount the guy's good points on the basis of the fact that he also says some dumb stuff. I mean you could, but it just holds no water.

The Hernandez and Fultz signings were not needed last year in my opinion. I honestly can't tell whether Shapiro made the moves to appease those who demanded bullpen changes or actually thought Hernanez's massively declining statistics would enjoy a turnaround in Cleveland. Similarly, Fultz had been decent at best and probably worse throughout most of his career. So those two guys really were signed to be our bullpen saviors? I have to think there was more to it than that. I mean our bullpen depth then and still now was so damn good. They had to have been aware of the possibility that our bullpen would improve if we just gave the guys internally a chance. So why even sign those guys? Why sign this guy? To take another spot from Mujica or Stevens. We all recognize the volatility of bullpen's in general. So why not gamble on guys in our system, who are younger and cheaper. Is it simply because at least if you get these guys it looks like you did something? I really hope Shapiro isn't subscribing to this logic. I mean it's not like he's giving the Linebrinks of the world massive deals (which would be so much worse), but I still ultimately don't see the point in signings like this. Kobayashi's statistics are good, not great. I don't see the point in giving a guy with only good statistics a chance in a bullpen with so much depth, no matter how high or low risk the signing was.

by Joe on Nov 20, 2007 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Whatever his faults, I don't see Shapiro as the kind of guy who makes moves to appease anyone.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 20, 2007 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I have to think you are looking back on our bullpen that ended the '05 through rose tinted glasses. I don't know anyone who saw anything of promise in that bullpen (other than Mastny for a while there). I agree that Hernandez was pretty much what his prior statistical performances were trending towards. Fultz on the other hand, wasn't spectacular, but got the job done, meaning he was an avg. arm out of the pen. We expected that.

Look at F-Cab or Jason Davis, we continued to think that they would perform well given the chance. I also don't think we should count on the bullpen being deep again next year. J.Lew and Perez could regress easily. An injury here or an injury there (remember early 2006 when Miller and Raffy B went down) If we simply go with minor leaguers in these roles, then we significantly weaken our overall depth.

by hans on Nov 20, 2007 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
tell me joe, next, the tale of danny graves.

yawn.

the point of signings like this and of fultz is depth utilizing calculated risk.

i'm sure that guy we got for jason davis could get some guys out at the majors right now too, and super cheap.

but you have to balance proven/established talent, youth with upside, and some monkey poop flung against the wall to see if it sticks.  how much of each, and how much to pay for it is ultimately one aspect of what a gm's job is.

by Brick. on Nov 20, 2007 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably so that we increase our chances
of making sure we have a strong bullpen in the future.

Hello Joe,

Realize that in 2009, Borowski and Fultz likely won't be here - that's at least two spots that open up.  Plus, I'm not sure the Indians know if Mastny is a guarantee to fit this bullpen long-term, so that could be 3 spots (presuming he's DFAed or traded.)

Essentially, for 2009, without counting Kobayashi, you have:

Betancourt
Perez
Lewis

If you add Kobayashi, that's four, leaving 2-3 more spots from among the following group (projected):

Sipp
Stevens
Mujica
Santos

There are other possibilities, like Slocum, S. Lewis, Lara, Buzachero, etc., that could be in that mix, but we know pretty much for sure that those four above will likely be options to choose from.  And, of course, this is presuming we don't sign any more FAs.

Now, right now, outside of Mujica, the other three have only had AA experience, so they'd be better off spending most of 2008 at AAA Buffalo, so signing Kobayashi for 2008 certainly doesn't seem like a bad move.  Add in the fact that Sipp is coming back from TJ surgery and hasn't had AAA experience, plus the fact that Mujica ended last season with an injury (something with his leg or ankle, I believe, while doing pre-game drills,) and hasn't fully adapted to the MLs yet, and I think the signing makes even more sense.

Plus, we know that not every prospect turns out (see Jason Davis and Fernando Cabrera for recent examples,) so adding an experienced, quality arm at reasonable dollars doesn't seem like a bad move to me.  Who knows - the Indians could get lucky like the Red Sox did with Okajima; I'm not sure many were raving about that signing when it occurred either, yet it turned out pretty well for the most part, arguably better than the signing of Matsuzaka did for their 2007 season when you factor in the cost and the overall production.

In addition, this gives you another closing option to go to in case Borowski falters or becomes injured.  Also, by adding him as a set-up man to go along with Betancourt, this effectively pushes Perez and J. Lewis back to earlier roles, making the bullpen that much stronger, provided of course they can duplicate or come close to their 2007 performances, a decent IF.  

Plus, Kobayashi and his agent were probably looking for a multi-year deal; if the Indians don't give him at least 2 years, chances are, we don't get him, and supposedly, there were many teams interested in signing him, not just us.  That we were able to add a 3rd year as a team option seems like a bonus to me, since we could keep him for 3 years, and if he doesn't work out in the first two years, you can buy out the option for a relatively small amount.  

So, overall, I like the move - it remains to be seen whether it will turn out or not, but compared to what other FA relievers were out there, I think the Indians could have done much worse than Kobayashi.

Just my 2 cents - no offense.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 20, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Probably so that we increase our chances
Mario - you're gonna get absolutely destroyed in the clinics unless you get back to your Goodman&Gilman tout de suite.  You've got no time for this frivolity.

Those other second year guys are up all night memorizing the last three years of the NEJM so they can pull out that obscure amygdala/lymbic system link between schizophenia and uterine Ca during Neurology rounds.

Dig deep boy, or you're gonna be doin' a General Medicine internship at Saskatoon General for the next five years!

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 21, 2007 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Probably so that we increase our chances
Haha it's funny, whenever I feel unmotivated to study, I just post on LGT and within hours Chuck will have motivated me to be a better doctor again. Thank you, LGT. You save lives.

by supermarioelia on Nov 21, 2007 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Probably so that we increase our chances
I need a Chuck for my studies.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 21, 2007 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you! :-)
Good luck on your exam(s)!
May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 21, 2007 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
What, no mention of Joe Borowski?  I'm astounded!

What Shapiro did last year is what he'll probably do for as long as he runs the Indians.  That is pick-up 4 or 5 seasoned relief guys who've had mediocre to disappointing years and see if one or two of 'em can bounce back.

Borowski, along with Fultz, Hernandez and Foulke, fit the profile.  Throw in Betancourt and you can see that none of these guys were seen as saviors, merely risk/reward signings.

Shapiro's playing the hand he's been dealt brilliantly - but not flawlessly.  Nobody plays it flawlessly.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 20, 2007 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Have any of you read Pluto's book "Dealing."  It would help you realize Dolan isn't a cheap skate.  If anything, Jacobs screwed the Tribe by putting profit before anything else. The only huge mistake the Dolan made was offering too much money for the Tribe, when there was no need to.  No one else would offer so much.
      The problem is that Dolan is a fan who paid too much.  Shapiro has made the best of a bad situation (at least from 2004 on).
spinske

by spinske on Nov 20, 2007 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
not sure where else to put this... but for the Chicago LGT guys (brick, thommy, andrew, one other guy whose name escapes me... i briefly met you at Avenue tavern)...

anyway, i saw Kenny Lofton at the baggage claim at Midway today.  i didn't quite know what to do, so i just kind of walked up to him (and his friend) and said, scatterbrained, "you're awesome, i'm from cleveland, and i can't believe Skinner didn't send you."  he threw his head back and laughed and just said, "thank you, thank you" and i walked away.  pretty sweet.

by kwoog on Nov 21, 2007 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
That's pretty cool. Maybe you could have sold him one of the new Skinner customized "STOP" jerseys that indians.com will be selling Jan 08

by cclemens31 on Nov 21, 2007 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
damn, any other thanksgiving i'd have probably been pissed off by the delays somewhere at midway today.  obviously he was probably heading back home to east chicago for some eats.  thanks for sharing.

by Brick. on Nov 21, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Kobayashi's Profile (Translated) The translation isn't exact, for instance ERA is now "Traffic Vibration Rate" and also notice he had two "Death Balls" in 06. How many of our pitchers have had death balls? That's right, none.

by cclemens31 on Nov 21, 2007 2:21 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
well, his Traffic Vibration Rate looks okay, and it's nice for the Indians to finally add a shut-down reliever capable of throwing the Death Ball... but i've got to say i'm a little worried about the 161 career Self-fault Points, and he hasn't recorded a single Holocene Slaughter since 1999.

i mean, what's keeping a guy with Death Ball stuff from pulling off a Holocene Slaughter? that's got to be a mental issue.

by jeremy @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 21, 2007 3:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Please stop!!  I haven't even been able to see this because of the work filters and I'm still face down in the keyboard.

by painaxl on Nov 21, 2007 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Holocene Slaughters are overrated! It's all about the Ahn Strokes, which he's very good at. On top of that he has a positive Wins Interest/Losses North ratio. Hopefully that will translate to the majors.

by JPFrost on Nov 21, 2007 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I still don't understand what a Holocene Slaughter is.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 21, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
What on earth is a "self fault point?" Is that better or worse than a Death Ball?
I swear, next year is it.

by Brad D on Nov 21, 2007 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Pretty common occurrence.  Take a perfectly understandable English word "Dead".  Apply it to a different situation and modify it's meaning "Dead Ball".  Then translate back to English.

BTW, dead ball just means batters he hit, which isn't many.  

by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 21, 2007 4:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
OH MY GOD

I just spit out my juice. We have to latch onto this somehow. I love love love the possibility of overusing "death ball" in Kobayashi jokes all season.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 21, 2007 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi

Forget the curve ball, Kobi, throw `em the Death Ball!

by nickjs21 on Nov 21, 2007 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I know, right? It's like a player profile from the advance version of Final Fantasy XVI.

Kobayashi drinks THREE JIN POTION (-2 self-fault points)
Kobyashi fires DEATH BALL, misses. (T.F.R.=2.05)
Kobayashi: 'this is the best team, please'
Kobayashi casts HOLOCENE SLAUGHTER, hits! (85 ahn strokes)
Kobayashi: 'ha! first strikeout abduction!'
Iguchi: 'ns'

by fleerdon on Nov 22, 2007 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
2008 is going to be so much fun.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 21, 2007 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Death Balls, Traffic Vibration Rates and Holocene Slaughters aside, I'm wondering why Japanese fans are interested in a player's blood type.  

Masa's is B+ in case any of you are interested.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 21, 2007 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
with all those Death Balls flying around, every once in a while someone needs a transfusion.

by jeremy @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 21, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Many Japanese believe that blood type is an indication of personality, like astrology in the West.  

But often things are lost in translation:

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 21, 2007 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
This is the first NewsRadio reference in my memory.  We need more of these.  

by Fundamentals on Nov 23, 2007 7:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
The Santa Claus in the lobby is trying to kill me.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 24, 2007 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Oops, I looked it up...

The Santa Claus in the lobby wants to kill me.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Nov 24, 2007 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Well..it ended up being a coincidence that they signed Masa. This is for a few reasons a) I work with a guy named Masa, and b) I was planning to go to Chiba on a layover in Tokyo in a few weeks. I will have to see if I can spot Kobayashi in his natural element. If you don't hear from me assume a death ball did me in.

by cclemens31 on Nov 23, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Evan's Bold Predictions:

Year 1: 47IP, 39K, 3.25ERA, 7th/8th inning-ish
Year 2: 40IP, 26K, 3.80ERA
Year 3: decline

~50IP at 3.25ERA out of the pen is worth the price of the entire contract in this FA market.

I like the signing.

by gte619n on Nov 21, 2007 8:57 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Not worth its own diary, but the Tribe signed another far east guy this month, a young catcher from Taiwan. They paid $300k, which is in line with Tseng and Smit:

http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/2007/09/indians-sign-chun-hsiu-chen.html

by mcrose on Nov 21, 2007 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Hey, I like what I hear.  I hope he develops into something special.  You can never be unhappy with a power hitting catcher with soft hands.

I'm worried how he handles the Death Ball, though.

by nickjs21 on Nov 21, 2007 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi

With a special Mitt of Unrelenting Vitality, of course.

by mcrose on Nov 21, 2007 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I like the Kobayashi signing; a reasonable gamble without too much cost.  What I hope is that the Indians finally learned something this year; that in-house relievers also can be developed.  Perez and Lewis really contributed (and, to an extent, so did Mastny).  That's the first time in a long time we had relievers from our own system in key roles (last one I can think of was Riske, and, before that, Betancourt).  If they start signing guys like Kobayashi to SUPPLEMENT their own guys, instead of trying to build an entire bullpen that way, we'll be okay.

by peter m on Nov 21, 2007 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Great thread.  Not much more can be said about the signing.

It's nice to have actual Hot Stove activity to discuss, rather than idle speculation.

by Spidey on Nov 21, 2007 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
idle speculation is what gets me through.

April 1. April 1. April 1.

by gte619n on Nov 21, 2007 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, March 31!
Hello gte619n,

I was just reminded of this yesterday morning, but keep in mind that March 31 is the Indians' Home Opener - I know, a bit unbelievable we're going to play our 1st home game on March 31 (we did play in Anaheim a few years back on March 31, but that was the Sunday Night Season Opener - this is going to be on a regular Monday!)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 21, 2007 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Added comments from (and link to) Keith Law to the main story ...

by Jay on Nov 21, 2007 6:46 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Added comments from (and link to) Keith Law to the main story ...

by Jay on Nov 21, 2007 6:47 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
See boyz, even the pros screw up.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 21, 2007 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

+1! :-)
May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 23, 2007 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
A word to MARINZUFAN:     This is the best team, please.

by stoicpaisano on Nov 25, 2007 10:29 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
The ERA for the Pacific league that Kobayashi pitched in was 3.57. His ERA was 3.61.

His home park was a pitcher's park.

Playing in Chiba Marine Stadium, thirty minutes south-east of Tokyo along the waterfront, Lotte games seldom draw a crowd. Because of the cold wind blowing in from the bay, it can be an uncomfortable place in April and May.  Because of its deep outfield walls and a large foul territory, Marine Stadium is one of the toughest places in Japan to hit a home run.

http://www.japanball.com/marines.htm

OT Alex Ramirez (ex-Indian) hit .343 BA 29 HR 122 RBI in Japan in 2007.

by ronh on Nov 26, 2007 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
holy crap.  i remember thinking he was going to be a superstar (in the U.S.).

by Brick. on Nov 26, 2007 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
All good points -- and you forgot to note his five unearned runs.  But it's a given that he had a down year last season, apparently injury-related, and the Indians are betting on a rebound.  His ERA for the prior two seasons was 2.63, 29 earned runs (and 1 unearned) over 99 innings.

by Jay on Nov 26, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
The neck injury was bogus.

He spent some time on the injured list toward the end of the year with what was labeled "neck irritation," but both Kobayashi and Mirabelli said that was a phantom injury used to send the pitcher down on the farm for a short time after his club had clinched a playoff berth and other pitchers needed innings.

http://indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071120&content_id=2304673&vkey=news_cle&fe xt=.jsp&c_id=cle

by ronh on Nov 26, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
You forgot to mention that all the other points were not bogus.

by Jay on Nov 26, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I think the real issue here is that for the price, how could he possibly be worse than Roberto Hernandez. Even at worst, this guy can eat some bullpen innings and not cost a ton.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 27, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
True, except that the second year of Hernandez's deal was a club option, not a guarantee.  (A small mitigation is that we surrendered a third-round draft pick to get Hernandez, but no picks for Kobayashi.)  Even given a year of potentially insane salary inflation for relievers, there should be higher expectations on Kobayashi.

The main thing we should appreciate is that the Indians got this done two days before the terms of the Linebrink deal leaked out.  Who knows how that might have impacted the negotiations?

by Jay on Nov 27, 2007 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
True, and it's an interesting comparison.  Linebrink with the better track record but looking a bit washed up, Romero with a totally dominating three months in Philly -- 1.24 ERA is a ridiculous pitcher's park.

But there's a big difference between $12 million and $19 million guaranteed.

by Jay on Nov 27, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
lefties do have a different market, usually too.

won't koby come with Options too, so while expensive he'd be to have in the minors, he does give you some flexibility even if he totally tanks.

by Brick. on Nov 27, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
Interesting point.  The standard major league contract would have Kobayashi not yet eligible for arbitration after 2009 -- meaning that they could decline the 2010 option, tender him a contract and then set his salary at the max-cut rate of $2.6 million.  Then they could keep him year-by-year as an arbitration guy (like Betancourt now) through 2013.

My guess is that the Indians agreed in the contract to non-tender him if they don't pick up the 2010 option, but that he doesn't become a free agent after 2010 if they do pick up the option.  Keep in mind, though, that arbitrated salaries are in part based on the player's prior salaries, so having him as an arbitration guy wouldn't be a huge bargain.

Hideki Matsui's original three-year contract with the Yankees required them to release him if they hadn't re-signed him by Nov 15 of the third year, essentially making him a free agent after just three years.  My understanding of the CBA is that this clause isn't allowable under it, but no other team was going to protest a clause that essentially hurt the Yankees.  I think it sets a terrible precedent, however, because what's to stop an agent from asking for this privilege for a draft pick?

by Jay on Nov 27, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Indians sign Japanese closer Kobayashi
I can't buy the argument that this is a good signing because "he couldn't possibly be worse than Roberto Hernandez". We were never told that Hernandez was anything beyond a middle inning type pitcher. Shapiro stated that Koby was the best reliever available from Japan, there's higher expectations (as there should be!) for Koby.

by hans on Nov 27, 2007 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

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