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Around SBN: NFL Week One: Previews and Predictions for all 15 games

The Clash of the Utility Infielders

by Ryan on Mar 7, 2007 9:54 PM EST in News Comment 34 comments

Thetis: What if courage and imagination became everyday mortal qualities? What will become of us?

Zeus: We would no longer be needed. But, for the moment, there is sufficient cowardice, sloth and mendacity down there on Earth to last forever.

It's not exactly Homeric material, but we have to overhype something based in reality, right?

Joe Inglett lost some ground in the battle because of not one, but two muscle strains:

Bad wheels: Joe Inglett says he'll rest for a "couple of days" to try and let his legs recover. Inglett, competing for the utility job, strained his right quadriceps muscle early in camp. Now he's strained his left quadriceps and hamstring.

Also fading fast is Hector Luna, though he's been fading entirely on his own:

Shortstop Hector Luna misplayed a popup for an error that made one of the runs unearned.

Luna later missed an easy grounder hit by Gary Sheffield for another error, while Cleveland third baseman Andy Marte made one error and turned a couple of tough chances into tougher ones by backing up on balls instead of playing the short hops.

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if Luna is in another organization by the time the team breaks camp.

Mike Rouse, who was claimed on waivers late last season, is actually in the running to make the team. Rouse has been a shortstop his entire professional career, which is something none of the other combatants can say. And while his AAA OPS has gone down each of the past three seasons, he might just be the best of what's available.

Luis Rivas, whose career cratered after a promising start, also has a good shot of making the team. He was a shortstop in the Twins' organization before moving to second to make room for Cristian Guzman. His offense is not going to be an asset, but he again doesn't have too much competition.

Of course, the Indians are still going to look outside the organization for help, and the end of March means plenty of waiver and trade opportunities as teams finalize their rosters. The Indians do have a spare roster spot (thanks to Keith Foulke's retirement), and the three infielders on the roster all have options remaining.

And here's the obvious question - does this really matter? It could if Barfield or Peralta go down with a serious injury, in which case we could be seeing one of these guys on an everyday basis. And I don't really want to think about that.

0 recs | Comment 34 comments |

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Comments

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Nice Clash of the Titans reference. Maybe Harry Hamlin could be our utility infielder.

by APV on Mar 7, 2007 10:04 PM EST reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

In addition to "if Barfield or Peralta go down with a serious injury," what about Marte? Is Blake still our backup at 3B in case of a serious injury to Marte, or does one of these utility guys qualify for the job?

by kov on Mar 8, 2007 8:14 AM EST reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

what would you think of bring up Cabrera to play SS and move Peralta to 3rd if Marte went down to a serious injury?

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Mar 8, 2007 9:50 AM EST reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I've heard worse ideas, but I think the likelihood is that we put Blake at 3B, Garko finally gets 1B to himself and Gutierrez/Francisco get called up.

by Jay on Mar 8, 2007 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Has Peralta ever played 3rd? Don't assume because a guy can play SS that he can play 3rd as effectively. You can't just slide a guy over to a new position in the middle of the year unless he's an all around utility guy.

by BoDiaz1974 on Mar 8, 2007 10:44 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Peralta played some 3B in 2004. (For some reason Baseball Cube doesn't have his fielding stats in Buf in 2004)

When Peralta played 3B, Phillips played SS that year.

Peralta also has started 4 games at 3B in the ML.

by ronh on Mar 8, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I know not many agree, but IF Peralta or Barfield go down, I say they call up Cabrera. While he may hit like Peralta did in 2003, there is no doubt that defensively he will be a superior upgrade to Luna, Rivas or Rouse...Even offensively, I don't think they would lose a lot.

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Mar 8, 2007 9:51 AM EST reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I actually agree, but if it's a season-ending injury, you simultaneously work a trade for a veteran replacement.

by Jay on Mar 8, 2007 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I'd agree if it is true that Cabrera's defense is much better than Rivas or Rouse. The scouting reports at Baseballanalysits.com have gushed about his defense, but their metrics and baseballprospectus's metrics show below average defense.

Right now I see the similarities between Rivas (5 years ago) and Cabrera (now) to be pretty apt. If Peralta goes down, the best defender slots into short. If Marte goes down (or sucks), I'd be reluctant to move Peralta if his defense at short was adequate. If Barfield goes down, Inglett is a reasonable replacement (slight loss on offense and defense, but not ridicuosly bad in either case).

by oxforddave on Mar 8, 2007 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Just me, but I know AC can't hit. I know he's supposed to be a good fielder, but we don't know how good. Anyway, what we do know is that he can't hit. We're talking Adam Everett batting lines but without his defense - that's just not smart, people.

Maybe we concentrate so much on his defense becasue he can't hit. Am I being ambigious?

He should be left in the minors, probably even in the event of a Peralta injury. The sum of his parts very, very likely won't be better than Rouse/Inglett/Luna, and promoting him too soon to the majors would only excaserbate the accelerated advancement issues he already has. Let the boy grow on his own timeline, not ours.

by Thommy on Mar 8, 2007 10:43 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

He can't hit yet.

by Jay on Mar 8, 2007 1:32 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

by Thommy on Mar 8, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

The early call up seemed to work out alright for Peralta, who went from a nice, but not great prospect to winning the IL MVP and having an outstanding 2005 season. I like Cabrera as the back-up, although almost everyone disagrees. But as an injury fill-in, if a few weeks of seeing major league pitching ruins his career, I think it is safe to say he probably didn't have much of a career to begin with.

That said, the defensive upgrade may be worth the marginal downgrade offensively. None of Luna, Inglett, Rivas and Rouse have displayed a bat that would blow away anyone. 100-200 at bats wouldn't KILL the kid!

As for concentrating on his defence because he can't hit, you are partially correct. But that is "us", scouts typically have a better thought process. However, could this theory not also work in reverse? Could we not be downgrading his bat because his defensive play is so great?
Again, if the worst thing that can happen is calling him up "too soon" ruins his confidence and he never becomes a quality hitter, then I think it is safe to say he wasn't going to become much in the first place - atleast for the Tribe.

I do agree with Jay that if it is a season-ending injury, that they should look for a trade possibility. But I think this season we will see that Cabrera isn't much of a hitter and his ceiling as such is going to be very low, giving him 1000 at bats in triple A presumably would not fix that.

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Mar 8, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

"That said, the defensive upgrade may be worth the marginal downgrade offensively"
(add on)
...for this team

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Mar 8, 2007 1:53 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I didn't mean to imply that it would hurt his career to call him up, rather that it would hurt our team.

Peralta hit 281/343/457 as a 20 yr old in AA for a season before being called up. AC hasn't been anywhere close to that level of production.

And no, we can't be downgrading his bat because his defense may be great. A .295 OBP/337 SLG player doesn't leave a lot of room for a liberal interpretation.

by Thommy on Mar 8, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Cabrera's bat would have to be down right pathetic and he would have to boot a lot of balls in order to "hurt" this team offensively. By all accounts they are improved over last season, when they finished in the top 5 in runs.

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Mar 8, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I'm not sure how to respond to that.

by Thommy on Mar 8, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

For comparison sake I took a look at Cabrera's stats for his half year at Buffalo (at age 20) and then Peralta's half year in 2003 (at age 21). Now granted I only looked at batting average and OPS. Both were similar. In fact both of their minor league career stats are similar for both of those stats. Would his career be considered a failure if he had a bat like Jhonny's and a glove like Omar's?

Sorry, I just remember one of the very few Pluto articles where he missed it with Vizquel. He had the same take on Vizquel as you do with Cabrera, weak bat good glove. I would not say Omar was a below average hitter.

Personally, I'd like to see him get a full year at Buffalo and hopefully he does what Jhonny did. If he does do well but still doesn't figure in to the plans at the end of the year, then trade him, his value will be high. If one of the three (Peralta, Marte or Barfield) don't do well, then give him a chance. And if its Marte, move Peralta to 3rd. If he doesn't hit, then he gets to be our latest version of Johnny Mac. I think every scenario works out well. And I really don't think he'll out-perform significantly any of the other options as utility infielder this year. I just don't understand not letting him have a chance to let that bat improve at AAA first.

I do agree though on the big league preview in the case of an injury. Having it said 'go out and play rookie, we're not judging' has to be good on an interim basis. If only for him to understand what it takes.

I just envision an infield from first to third with Marte, Barfield, Cabrera & Peralta as being pretty solid defensively and if all continue developing offensively, not bad in that respect either. Just my opinion. Sorry for the length.

by JK in CBus on Mar 8, 2007 10:28 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Marte as first baseman of the future? I'm not sure, so much of his value is wrapped up in his defense at third. If Cabrera shows a Peralta-like development line (albeit with less power), the more likely scenario might be trading Jhonny. I mean, you're telling me we'd have a guy who hits for about as good an average as Jhonny, but plays superior defense?

This does raise an interesting question: If, in 2008, Cabrera has hit his way out of AAA, and Jhonny has made a so-so recovery of his stats, what's next?

by fleerdon on Mar 9, 2007 10:02 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Well, you trade one of course.

by Jay on Mar 9, 2007 10:28 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Of Course? Does that mean you've trashed the idea of Marte to 1B and Peralta to 3b if all three hit well(Marte, Peralta and AC)?

by kov on Mar 9, 2007 2:12 PM EST up reply actions

What about Peralta at 1B?

Hello everyone,

Peralta isn't the defender Marte is, but I think there was a comment once made here by someone (Jay? - not sure) suggesting that Peralta might be better than Garko if Peralta were to play 1B.

I doubt Peralta would be above-average over at 1B, but might be passable to average over there, and if his bat recovers closer to his 2005 level, his offense might be enough to be passable over there as well, presuming of course, we don't trade him.

Just a thought. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 9, 2007 10:12 PM EST up reply actions

Re: What about Peralta at 1B?

Why is it that everyone (well, almost everyone) keeps posting as if Peralta's defense is so bad that he must be moved somewhere? (OK, I'm exaggerating a bit, but in general it's perceived that his defense is unacceptable.) In 2005 his defense was supposedly top 3 in the entire AL, and even last year it was above the middle, according to several different sites that do defensive stats. I think we need to see how his defense is this year, and if it's bad this year, fine, look into a position switch. But right now his real value is in the fact that he can adequately man the SS position. Yes, I do believe his defense will be at least adequate, and maybe a lot better than adequate. Bottom line - we need to wait at least until a significant part of the season before we proclaim he needs to be moved somewhere.

(rant off - and no, that wasn't directed at any one person)

by mickeyf on Mar 9, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions

Two main reasons!

Hello mickeyf,

Two main reasons:

The stats are all over the board on many different sites; some say he's above-average, some say he's below-average. In addition, his range wasn't that good last year, though if his eyesight contributed to that last year, his range might improve slightly this year (because he'll get a quicker first step on the ball, as well as be able to see what Martinez is calling for behind the plate.)
The idea of moving Peralta has more to do with keeping Asdrubal Cabrera IF both Cabrera handles AAA and Peralta rebounds from his disappointing 2006. Cabrera, even now, is considered the superior defender to Peralta; if both factors above occur, and the Indians don't want to trade either one of them, the only way to accommodate both of them on the Indians is to shift Peralta off SS (to either 3B if Marte falters or to 1B, since that is the biggest IF question mark long-term for the Indians at this point) and shift Cabrera to SS.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 10, 2007 12:04 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Yes, I am trashing that idea. Marte is above-average at 3B and Peralta may not be. 3B is funny that way. I'd rather move Peralta to 1B than Marte, but hopefully we'll have a better option.

As a direct parallel, rather than move Kouzmanoff to 1B, we traded him for a 2B. That was an unusually good opportunity, but you seek those out aggressively. Mostly, though, you wait until you actually have this "problem" before sweating it too much.

by Jay on Mar 10, 2007 1:20 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Let me also note, trading Barfield is probably going to be on the table, too. Boras clients like to go to free agency and the highest bidder.

by Jay on Mar 10, 2007 1:21 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

"On the table" when - 5 years? Or do you mean sooner to make room for AC to play 2B?

by kov on Mar 10, 2007 3:35 AM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

First, everyone is on the table, all the time -- with extremely few exceptions, and Barfield wouldn't be one of them.

Second, in less than five years. As long as Boras is his agent, the smart money says that Barfield will not be with the Indians after 2011, will not sign a team-friendly extension -- will not in fact even be willing to seal in his arbitration years at reasonable money as everyone else has done.

So after 2009, he'll probably still be a very good value, but not an untouchably good value. So for the right price, trading him to a team that's more reckless with cash would certainly be an option. This is not like the Crisp situation, which had the added element of a player not ideally cast for his role on the team.

But it does mean that if we have a glut of capable infielders -- I'll believe it when I see it by the way -- Barfield likely would be a target purely because he'll have the least favorable contract for the team, and the least chance of being with the team long-term.

So yes, if Barfield, Peralta and AstroCab all do well over the next two seasons, I would expect Barfield to be traded -- and for a huge bounty, too.

by Jay on Mar 10, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I'm not sure of the source, and its been a while, but I heard once that Marte may have weight issues and could be better suited for 1st. That could have been the Atlanta or Boston FO speaking though. That's where that idea came from. Also the idea of using Peralta at 3rd from somewhere around '03/'04 before Jhonny had his MVP year at Buffalo. It'd be nice to see both Aubery and Cabrera have good years and push the issue in the bigs.

by JK in CBus on Mar 12, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

To say that Inglett's bat would not blow anyone away understates his minor-league career numbers of .309/.386/.428. His major-league numbers with only 201 ABs last year were not bad either at .284/.332/.383.

I wish we had a composite of Inglett's bat and AC's glove.

by kov on Mar 8, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Inglett's minor league numbers are heavily padded as he beat up on younger kids. He was 24 in Kinston and 25-26 in Akron, 27 in Buffalo and briefly went back to Akron just before his 28th birthday. And he doesn't hit like Ernie Young, either.

by Jay on Mar 8, 2007 8:48 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

I hear Kevin Witt is available!

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Mar 8, 2007 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Agreed. If there is indeed a "window" as I have heard Wedge and Shap talk about, the last thing we'd want is to bring in an inexperienced guy when we could make a trade for a veteran who could help us into the postseason.

by BoDiaz1974 on Mar 8, 2007 10:46 AM EST reply actions

Re: The Clash of the Utility Infielders

Not that it matters too much, but Rouse was added to the A's 40-man after the 03 season, so his options were used in 04, 05, and 06. Link: here

by IndianInIndiana on Mar 8, 2007 2:13 PM EST reply actions

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