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Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Cleveland ...

Marte_tiny by nickjs21 on Comment 548 comments

Tony Rizzo on ESPN Radio just reported that the Indians made a "pretty significant" deal, probably for a relief pitcher, and that Mark Shapiro will be talking later.

I'm basically live-blogging this, waiting for Rizzo to say more.

Waiting for more...
Waiting for more...
Waiting for more....

He's calling into the show cuz he's on vacation, and right now we're on hold on live air.  Come on, more info!

UPDATE:  Manaloff is saying it's Lofton ... multiple sources reporting it's Lofton for Kinston catcher Max Ramirez, who was acquired for Bob Wickman a year ago. It's not clear whether there's more to it.  Press conference at 4:00.

UPDATE:  Indians.com is reporting that Kenny Lofton has been acquired for Max Ramirez.

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Re: Rizzo reporting...
My guess - Dotel or Izzy. Probably Dotel.

by Ryan on Jul 27, 2007 11:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I don't know why but I'm a big supporter of any Izzy/Duncan deal.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Elite RP, and what would be our best hitting OFer.

Easy to see why

by mikebrowns26 on Jul 27, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
It's not a deal I would do, but I just mentioned that to a St. Louis friend, and she did not take it lightly.

I guess consensus around St. Louis is they should trade Izzy before he gets hurt again.  Duncan, on the other hand, is their Garko:  No one was really sure what he would do this year, and he kind of just exploded.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I guess we wait now ... they went to commercial, but everyone on the show is now on the phones.  

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
So any hints? Outfielder?

by Ryan on Jul 27, 2007 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
...unless there are TWO deals...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Can you please explain this a little bit? Who said it's not a pitcher?

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Yeah; I want to know too.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Dotel for Francisco has been the hot rumor this morning (as I think we all expected). Hard to believe that is considered a "pretty significant" deal, though.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I don't know if those were Rizzo's words or a quote.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Good Lord, i have to turn Rizzo back on?

That show's worn out its welcome pretty quick for my tastes.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Nothing else on to get through the workday.  Lucky I had it on today.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
What a great time for my Sirius to start cutting out. Keep me updated.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
4?! I can't wait that long.

refresh
refresh
refresh

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Hey, zempf, are you and your people up for a little Kinston-Wilmington action, tonight or tomorrow?

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Ooh, I could be convinced to do that probably. Not sure what's up tomorrow, though I'm supposed to go to the Phillies game tonight with a bunch of people. Drop me an email if you want, mike at frantic dot org, so I remember to see what Katie thinks about it.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
If you're thinking of heading down tonight, drop me a line as well (jonesca17@yahoo.com) - I'm supposed to go to the Phils game, but might bail for the K-Tribe.

by cajones on Jul 27, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Got it.  Not sure yet.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I was planning on going to Browns training camp this afternoon, I might have to postpone if we don't know who the trade is for soon.

by mikebrowns26 on Jul 27, 2007 11:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
BORING! but if its for a reliever, I bet its gonna be Dotel...and if Gutz got traded for him, im waiting outside of the Indians front office with a sniper rifle till Shapiro comes out...
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
First of all, a little over the line with that comment.

Second of all, what's wrong with bullpen help?  I'm sorry if that isn't flashy for you.  But I'll go for winning games.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I dream of a corner outfielder. I'm pretty fine with the pen as it is. They need a #4 guy in the pen (someone to stop the bleeding that Lee causes), but one of the guys they have now may be able to step up (Lewis, Fultz, etc.)

by oxforddave on Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
The problem with the pen isn't the 7/8/9 guys, but the thought that we may overuse them.  One more good arm really solidifies that whole operation and protects from injury.  The bullpen would be virtually worry-proof.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Agreeing with Nick ... this is not a forum where talk like that is welcome.  If you're wondering why there's a lot of good quality discussion here, that's why.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
srry for ver reacting, had a long flight, to much mountain dew, and im a lil hung over....i promise no more such comments!!!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I love this...honestly, has Shapiro not earned your trust by now? Worrying about him making a Bavasi-ish deal is just silly.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
the only good trade shapiro made was the colon deal, noticed how I said good? he made some OK deals (like the finley trade), but please dont get me started on his free agent signings...i think shapiro did a good job so far with rebuilding, but he did make some boneheaded moves in my opinion!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I don't know where to start with this; so perhaps I'll just remind you that Travis Hafner came over in a trade for Einar Diaz.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Oh, and the very same Gutz. that you are willing to commit homicide over for being traded?  Yeah, he came over for Milton Bradley.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
like i said im hung over and only slept a few hours and woke up on a diffrent continent with 6 hours time difference
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
If you're hungover and tired, why are you on the Intertubes? In my experiences of said condition, probably not a good idea to be commenting on blogs.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Trivisonno also reporting into WTAM that something's going down today.

by Otto on Jul 27, 2007 11:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Is this the thread we should keep refreshing?

by Otto on Jul 27, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
J-Mike knows nothing. Worthless.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
It would strike me as funny if Michaels was the trading piece.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
he does sound kinda nervous. :)

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Thought about it.  He's useful and on a cheap contract, but it just doesn't make sense for a team like the Royals that's looking probably toward 2009 or 2010.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
so it is or isn't a reliever?  
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I don't want to believe that Gutz. has been traded for Dotel.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 11:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
If an outfielder goes for Dotel, it's gonna be Francisco. Shaps ain't dumb.

Pretty good time to sell on Ben actually. He's never going to crack this lineup, and he's really just a 4th OF anyway. Might as well trade him while his value is high(er).

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Right.  Unless we can't get a team off Gutierrez, it has to be Francisco.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Have made a trade...it's a "significant" move...no other info.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
What I meant to post here was...it makes even more sense to deal Ben because we locked up J-Mike this offseason. Dealing Francisco has pretty much been the plan since that extension was signed.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
That's my hope too - Gutz. seems to be turning into the player that the Indians thought they were getting originally; I can't see Shap. moving him now.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Oh, I think Gutierrez remains tradeable ... he's solidly ahead of Francisco but not vastly ahead.  And I think he's not yet a lock to be an everyday player, and not likely to be an impact guy.  But he strikes me as a guy more likely to be involved in an offseason Kouzamnoff-Barfield type of trade than in a reliever rental.

I'm feeling Texas.  Just a hunch.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I agree; I'm not sold on Gutz., but it seems to me that he's worth much more than a reliever.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
i dont think it would be labled a "significant trade" if its for kenny....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
It would certainly seem significant to all the average fans who remember the 90's.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Of course it would.  Kenny will start in LF for 80% of the games or more if he's acquired.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
And given this Market Lofton would be a "signficant" trade.

It's always interesting because Shap pulls trades out of nowhere.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
And you have Perez on baseball tonight saying "Cleveland is really high on this guy" every time Francisco makes a highlight. You think they paid him off?

by oxforddave on Jul 27, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I think they've been talking up Francisco for a reason, whether Perez is aware of the actual reason or not.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
im with ya, who wants to go to church real quick with me and pray?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
That's the fourth time they've said "significant."  I really wish I knew what they mean by that.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
by significant, they probably mean a make or brake trade, high risk/high reward. Time for shapiro to show if hes got the cojones, and if he shows the nerves to pull off a high risk/high reward trade at this point, the man then clearly deserves respect
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I think it means setup man or lefty bat.  It isn't necessarily huge.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Significant ... I'm saying Ben Francisco and Jeremy Sowers for Bobby Abreu and Phil Hughes.  

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Ha!
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
and A-rod as a throw-in?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Aw man I am not listening to Jim Rome just to find out.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I think that there is a disconnect between there definition of "significant" and our fantasy of same...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 12:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Yes, see above ...

I do think Garko's big July has taken us out of the running for a first baseman.  His BABIP had a ridiculous turnaround from June to July, but the bigger story is that his walk rate has improved every month.  With his OPS up to 915, I can't see how you trade him (and his contract) for someone like Dunn or Teixeira (and his contract).

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
i can, but if we get another powerhitter with a high K-rate im gonna go insane
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
This is killing me.  Instead of working, I'm banging my refresh key...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 12:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
that sounds wrong....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Ditto. I'm hoping to find something better to put on my timesheet this week than "refreshed baseball sites frantically waiting for trade news: 5 hours."

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I think it's got to be something bigger than Gutierrez for Dotel.  You don't hold a press conference for that kind of deal, do you?

I remember press conferences for the Alomar trade, the Baerga trade, those kinds of deals.

I don't even think there was a press conference for the Mesa-Steve Reed deal in '98, was there?

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 12:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Any trade that sends Alvin Morman out of town is worth a press conference...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Is there a press conference? I thought shapiro was just going to come on the show.

by bigbrabbs on Jul 27, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Dorn didnt even hold a press conference when he reactivated himself.

by bigbrabbs on Jul 27, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Late contender for post of the month.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
My HBP got us the winning run though

by Roger Dorn on Jul 27, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Way to step in there and take one for the team.

by CU Adam on Jul 27, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
In this market, Dotel for Francisco would be "significant," especially because it takes a bullpen arm away from the Tigers.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I wonder if it would include Lofton AND Gagne. I'm just saying...shap typically doesnt pull off the obvious trade theres always a twist.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
now with i could live...i think somebody like gagne would make that trade "significant"
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I honestly think it won't be Gagne.  Maybe Benoit and/or Wilson.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
There are many possibilities that wouldn't surprise me.  Ben or Franklin.  Cliff.  Literally any OF/1B guy in Buffalo or Akron.  Cabrera, certainly -- would make a lot of sense if it's the Royals.

I don't know that it's the Royals.  It could be the Rangers, or someone else.  For Texas or Kansas City, we could be moving multiple players for two relievers, or for Lofton and a reliever.

Could be someone else entirely.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Don't forget Sowers; he certainly isn't untouchable anymore. We won't trade him for a rental, obviously, but for the right quality of player (and contract) I could see him being used as a chip.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Is the press conference real or suspected/rumored?

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
They stated it as fact.  Take that for what it is.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
... and it's spectacular!
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
At the top of the hour, WKNR reported that there will be a presser with Shapiro at 4:00.

by Otto on Jul 27, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Man, I leave for lunch, and the board goes nuts! I just hope the news doesn't go down before 5:00-7:30 when I'm driving from PGH to CLE... or it'll be a very long and speed-filled drive to get into WTAM zone.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
don't know about you guys, but i've been scouring message boards and newspaper websites for KC, STL, and TEX (most popular rumors), and not seeing anything about press conferences or current rumors.  

if any of those sites break news, we can narrow down the rumors.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Check Cinci, too...I don't think Dunn is completely out of the question.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
look on facebook....maybe some of the prospects got traded, J-Lewis posted them a goodbye note....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I was at the game last night just begging to run into Lewis so I could ask him WTF is up with Laffey.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I'm doing the same thing - I'm surprised that nothing has popped up anywhere else.  Then again, trades involving Shapiro always seem to manage to stay under the radar until Shapiro is ready to announce them.  It's one of the things he does well (yet is really frustrating as a fan).
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Everyone else is checking your message board to see whats going on.   Nobody knows, this one's under wraps pretty well

by JQH on Jul 27, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Now there's a place even more crazier and ridiculous-trade-speculation-filled place than LGT.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
It's the first credible speculation we've gotten.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
The infamous D-Wags on cleveland.com said Lofton for Max Ramirez is a done deal. Perhaps we got Benoit as well for either Sowers or Laffey??

by mikebrowns26 on Jul 27, 2007 12:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Lofton for Max Ramirez?

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
dont like that trade....dont like it even though its fair...
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
We should expect to overpay in any deal.

And who's loving that Wickman deal now?

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
i liked it, loved ramirez's bat....remember, bats will eventually find their ways into lineups....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Just goes to show how important it is to cut your losses and reload when the playoffs look bleak.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
word.
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
"Word?" You just said you hated this "trade"...
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Maximiliano Ramirez? So, essentially, it's Wickman for Lofton? Interesting, if said rumor pans out. I trust Cleveland.com as much as I trust a blind man to walk my dog.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I definitely don't love it, in a lot of ways don't even like it, but I certainly understand it.

If this is true, somebody's got to come off the 25-man...does Trot get DFA'd?

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
ewwww. Lofton for Max Ram? Ripped off

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
I like Ramirez & all, but he's young & he's still in A-ball. If you're going to move someone, that's the type of guy I'd want to move as opposed to a guy who's tearing up AAA & might help you next year.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
ditto, apperently the second coming of victor martinez...
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Don't know about that. But from what I heard he had tremendous upside potential.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
But the first coming of Victor Martinez is still on the team, and Garko is tattooing the ball lately.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
did anyone say ramirez would play now??? he's still got at least 2 more years in the minors...possibly longer due to his defensive weaknesses
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
Serious question: has Dwags ever been wrong before?

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting...
i have yet to see dwags be wrong, but maybe someone else knows better

by Roger Dorn on Jul 27, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Apparently, Max wasn't in the Kinston lineup yesterday...

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
dun dun dun
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
The real question here is...goodbye, Trot?

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Stats would point to seeing him get dropped, but I think it'd be super useless to send him to Buffalo. I think he's staying on the 25 man too.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
hell of a defensive outfield....lofton, grady and gutz
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Trot as to go doesn't he?  Otherwise we lose someone else with a pulse...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
So wait, some of you were prepared to deal Francisco for Lofton, but are unhappy dealing Ramirez? Haha talk about over-projecting.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Exactly, see above. How many guys tear it up in A-ball & never go anywhere? Might as well get something out of him now instead of hoping that he'll be able to help us out in 2009 or 2010.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
what the heck are we supposed to do with 6 OF's on the team???
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
You're giving me a headache. Of course we're not going to have 6 OF on the team. Francisco is either going to be traded or sent down.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
me wasnt talking bout francisco, but dellucci....someones bound to get DFA'd
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Dellucci's on the 60 day DL (and thus not on the 25 or 40 man rosters), not to mention under contract for 2 more years. Try again.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
HIRE TROT AS HITTING COACH
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
If we trade Lofton, I'd guess we'd also trade Francisco to make room for him. If we trade Ramirez for Lofton and Francisco for Dotel, then IMO we brought in a pretty nice haul for a playoff run.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Seriously.  I love Max's bat, but the reports on him staying at a skill position have not been great.  If he's going to turn into a pure bat with little defensive value, what's he worth?  He's doing very well at Kinston, but he's not dominating (like Kouzmanoff), not young for his league (like Drennen) and not close to the majors (like Van Every).  So you have to be realistic about it.  He's not an elite prospect by any stretch.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
martinez wasnt an elite prospect until he broke out at AA, he was good prospect, but not an elite...
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Well, Ramirez has yet to even taste AA, so I suppose you can't really compare him to Martinez yet, can you?

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
So based on that, we should never ever trade a prospect, because he could be great. Please.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
No, Victor was already an elite prospect, or close to it.  Victor had an excellent defensive reputation.  He'd been a catcher full-time for four years by that point, and nobody doubted that he'd stick there.  That puts his offensive numbers in a whole different context.

If and when Max Ramirez goes on to lead the Texas League in OPS by over 100 points next season, as a full-time catcher, then I promise to denounce this trade.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Jay: the ever-present voice of reason.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
If it is Lofton, does Francisco go for Dotel? What other catching prospects are there that appear to have a future?

by LAIndianfan on Jul 27, 2007 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Fransisco if fairly old and not going to start for us

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
26 is fairly old these days? Yikes. I'm getting over the hill here at 20.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
for a player that just broke into the majors and is playing part time yes.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Right.  Although he's actually 25.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
It's so easy for some of you to be disappointed in every move Shap makes. Because then when it backfires, you can always say "I told ya so way back when."

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Makes me wonder if there's a second trade looming.  That's a full outfield.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I wonder if Fernando Cabrera could be headed somewhere since he's out of options.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jul 27, 2007 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Will Carroll: "The Indians emerged as the leader for Dotel after the Dodgers pulled back..."

I wonder if Max-for-Lofton could be followed by 'Cisco-for-Dotel.

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Makes perfect sense to me, and would be a pretty good set of moves.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
And also:  "Kansas City's Dayton Moore has been rebuffed so far in his efforts to acquire a young major league hitter for Dotel; the Dodgers would not part with infielder Tony Abreu, and the Indians wouldn't give up outfielder Franklin Gutierrez."

With the Dodgers out, maybe they've been persuaded to settle for Francisco ... and maybe Cabrera?

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
BF and Cabrera was the exact trade that came to mind.  Makes too much sense.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Yes, though you have to wonder if Shapiro really wants the possibility of seeing Cabrera for the next four years, 19 times a year.  Also, Francisco should be enough.  He's a quality young player, even if not a blue-chipper.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
In times of need teams make these types of moves.  Cabrera certainly has a live arm and is still young, although he has been struggling.

That said, it was probably less than a year ago that many were assuming he was one of the top candidates for closer.  It's amazing how far he has fallen in that time.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jul 27, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
That would make sense. 'Cisco for Dotel seems fair to me (fair in terms of Ben's perceived value and not his actual value), but if they want FGutz for Dotel, 'Cisco probably isn't enough by himself.

Plus, that would make it a "perfect" roster move (dealing an OF and a RP for an OF and a RP).

by Kos on Jul 27, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Probably depends on what other offers they were getting -- Dotel's basically useless for them, but they want to get something out of him if they can. Think about the situation we were in with Wickman last year, it's essentially the same thing minus a few dozen pounds.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Man, sitting here thinking about this more. I am really pumped about getting Lofton back (if that is indeed the trade)

by Roger Dorn on Jul 27, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
would kenny then be able to start for us today?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 12:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Finally a good point. I wonder how long it takes to get from KC to C-town.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I've decided I am perfectly OK with this trade.

I would, however, like it to be followed up with another.  We had an excess of OFers before today.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Two trades by 4:00 would indeed be "significant."

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Max Ramirez has no team listed under his name here, though he does when you click his player profile

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?clubs=&leagues=&t=s_pla&q=ramire z&x=0&y=0

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 12:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
If intangibles count for anything, you have to think that Lofton would be pumped to be back at the Jake, in a pennant race ... and that the crowd will go nuts for him ... which will energize the team.  And then we'll get a quote from C.C., realizing that Kenny's absence has been the problem all along.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 12:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Just sent you a couple of emails re: minor league baseball & other things, FYI.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
The team had to make this move beyond what Kenny gives us on the field. The fairweather fans needed this move to take away any excuse from abandoning this team after this past series. As much as I hate catering to them...

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Yup, this gives the fairweather guys from the 90s a reason to come back.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
ESPNCleveland.com just got updated with this headline news post...

"Kenny Lofton is returning to Cleveland! ESPN 850 WKNR is reporting that the Indians have aquired outfielder Kenny Lofton from the Texas Rangers in exchange for minor league catcher Max Ramirez. For the latest Indians news, keep your radio turned to ESPN 850 WKNR."

"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
WTAM.com also has it, but they had this disturbing line in their article:

"Lofton is likely to return to his old post in center field even though he is now in his 40's."

"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Haha that intern better be fired due to being an idiot.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Ken Robinson thinks Grady Sizemore ain't worth his weight in gloves.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Lofton has already acknowledged that if he returns to Cleveland it wont be in CF because of Sizemore. He also said he was fine with that.

I read this yesterday. I'll see if i can find it

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I recall it too, and that's most certainly the logical thing. I remember Hamilton said it during one of the Texas games.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Dotel for Sisco and Lofton for Max would be acceptible given the market.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 12:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
who needs Max Ramirez, Armando Camacaro hit 3 home runs last night.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Do we bat Lofton second and move Blake into the five-hole?

by Roger Dorn on Jul 27, 2007 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I still like Lofton in the 8 hole. Keep the righty-lefty mix going.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Any source that says he will be CF just isnt too credible.

But, thanks for the link.

Someone please send a link when we have something real!

by Tribe Alive on Jul 27, 2007 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
GRADY GETS TRADED!!! NO!!!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
That guy is an idiot.

This is a direct Lofton quote from one week ago, on whether he'd be willing to play LF or RF if traded:

"It would depend on the situation. In Cleveland, for instance, Grady plays center, so I'd have to play somewhere else."

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
doubt he plays today and I'm sure they won't, or shouldn't, play him Saturday against Santana. His #'s against lefties aren't very good.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
They don't really need it (I hear the Twins series is only upper deck availability), but Lofton playing this weekend would be near-sellout numbers, for sure.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Just announced that Cliff was sent down???

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 1:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
who what where? source?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I've got it streaming on my computer.  I didn't hear it, but to be honest I was barely listening.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Is Jim Rome on? Or do we have some special Tribe talk show? Deciding whether or not to bother to stream at work...
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Unfortunately, it's Jim Rome.  I have the volume low until I hear them go to commercial.  They usually do local sports updates during every break.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Bah... I take it Rush Limbaugh is on WTAM too?
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I think if we see Dotel come over today too, Shapiro's a shoo-in to get pied tonight.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I'm not crazy on Dotel, but yes, Shapiro deserves a good cigar if fills two needs in one day.  

Antonetti, too.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
haha imagine lofton and dotel on the same plane....like "wth are you doing here?"
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Pretty sure they can get direct flights.

And anyway, they'll know full well what they're doing here.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
i meant on the plane, not in CLE (seeing as both would be on the same flight, if aquired together, cause both are in KC)
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
so tomorrow we could have the debut of Lofton, a relief pitcher, and a Tom Hamilton talking bobblehead. The overwhelming amount of joy nearly brings a tear to my eye.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
what are we going to do with 6 OF's????
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Chillax... I'm sure Shapiro is aware of this situation too.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
so who get DFA'd? my guess is trot....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
well are you gonna send Gutz back to AAA?!?!?!?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
c'mon now dawg
grady still has options left.

by emil minty on Jul 27, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
pfeww....thank god!!!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Francisco will either be on another teams roster or in Buffalo.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
To be fair, i think we have to evaluate Trot's value come playoff time to see what presense he brings

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
well then hire him as an assistant assistant's coach...but keep him off the field!!!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
As much as I sort of hate to believe that intangible things like leadership and character is going to be a huge factor, I gotta say, designating Trot for assignment is dumb. He does not need to go down to Buffalo for anything, as it won't do any good. He's clearly not the "future" of the outfield. He might need work on his swing, but it's not going to be for the Bisons.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
great, so we are gonna carry 6 OF's ?!?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Holy hell, it's 1:21 PM. There's like five some hours before tonight's game. There's a news conference at 4. Something tells me more will happen before then. Frankie says relax.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Dude.

You've said it about eight times, with as many question marks.

Just wait and see.  DFA'ing Trot is not the only option this team has.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
well seeing that you guys always have point to make and seem to have ansewers to my statements, i was wondering what your take would be?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
No.  Francisco still has an option left, and if he's not traded, he'll go back to Buffalo and wait out an injury.  We are not going to carry 6 outfielders.  
Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
what about dellucci? that makes 6....
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Dellucci won't be back until the roster expands to 40 anyway. No problems.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
i though he was supposed to be back at the beginning of august?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
grady, gutz, lofton, michaels, nixon.

5, no less or more than opening day.  (grady, michaels, delucci, nixon, blake)

francisco goes down or is traded.

by kwoog on Jul 27, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
cleveland.com user said that Isringhausen was put on the DL today? Any truth to it?

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Man, I was lamenting Max up earlier in this thread, but now I'm getting super duper excited (plus, I thought he was 21, not 22, and his BABIP is high), because my first favorite baseball player is back!

Oh Geez, I'm turning into one of them. But seriously, folks, I'm excited.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 27, 2007 1:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Glad to see you didn't drown in the negativity wave.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
so, if it's really dotel, does he setup or close?  i would say setup.  you may all jump down my throat now.

by emil minty on Jul 27, 2007 1:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
they won't give Dotel the job, because Borowski for the most part has been doing his. But its a hell of a backup plan.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
He won't close... JoeBo's done a fantastic job thus far. Will he pitch the 8th though? I love what Betancourt's done so far, and I really like him in the game in the 8th. Don't mind Dotel being a 7th inning guy.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Good problem to have. I'm sure it'll be situational.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
JoeBo will close.....isnt his ERA over 10.00 when he doesnt close?
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I've said it before, and the stats show it still:
JoeBo when he gets the save:
29 SV, 27.1 IP, 1.65 ERA, 23 H, 5 ER, 6 BB, 27 K, 516 OPS against
JoeBo in his 3 blowups:
3 L, 2.1 IP, 42.43 ERA, 12 H, 11 ER (3 HR), 1 BB, 0 K, 1906 OPS against
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I did nitpick there, admittedly. But overall, Borowski's been solid for the season.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Again, we're putting the cart before the horse, but I just can't picture Borowski being a dominant/reliable setup man in a high-leverage situation.  If we pick up a good reliever, we've got three setup-capable men who can come in whenever they're needed and strand runners.  Borowski then pitches in the 9th with a three-run lead and the bases empty.  It's a perfect situation.  Especially if racking up saves makes Borowski more valuable in the offseason (would we get draft picks if we don't pick up the option?).

Of course, the beauty with Borowski is that he's OK with not closing if that's what the team decides.  That kind of flexibility is very nice, and I for one appreciate it.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
So when he does really poorly he does really poorly.

by osoc13 on Jul 27, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Let's wait until the egg hatches before we count the chicken, yes?

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
If what is Dotel? So far there's zero indication there is anything beyond the Lofton pickup. Unless I missed something?

by mrich on Jul 27, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Touché. We don't have Dotel yet. That I know of.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
Lofton's back?!  Now we've jumped the shark.

I kid; I'm fist pumping in a major way.

by homelytourist on Jul 27, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I hope we made two moves today, but even just getting Lofton is fine. Besides the "intangibles," playoff experience and link to the glory days (attendence boost), he is an upgrade offensively and defensively over Francisco.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
GTF ... if you ask about the six outfielders one more time, I'm going to ban you just for that.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Will Carroll on BP said, "One interesting tidbit is that this discussion between the Indians and Rangers didn't start with Lofton--the Tribe was quietly in on Mark Teixeira."

by rog on Jul 27, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I think the Rangers were after Saltalamachia [probable sic] as part of a rumored Teixeira deal to the Braves; adding Max Ramirez seems to indicate that isn't happening.

by homelytourist on Jul 27, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
ESPN SportsCenter 850 update: Cliff Lee appears to be headed back to Buffalo, Lofton-for-Ramirez is a done deal
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Yep... just heard that, too.  About time Cliff got dumped.

by bensbud on Jul 27, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
So I imagine Shapiro will tell us today whether Laffey or Stanford is taking his spot?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 27, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
we add an outfielder to the 25-man and drop a SP?  does this indicate another move?

by emil minty on Jul 27, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
We need another starter by Tuesday.  Could be Stanford, Sowers or Laffey.

In any event, one of our OF will be leaving before then.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
So who takes Cliff's spot in the rotation, and then who gets demoted to make room for the replacement? Unless Shapiro plans on throwing Stanford back into the rotation.

The way I see it now, we're adding 2 guys (Lofton and Cliff's replacement) and getting rid of one.

by obobcatu on Jul 27, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Francisco is getting sent down no matter what, whether or not he gets traded.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Indians.com making it official, I suppose.

An interesting quote from the story:

"It is also conceivable that Lofton could take over Sizemore's leadoff duties, allowing Sizemore to move down a couple notches in the order. That, however, is mere speculation, at this point."

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
A bad idea, but conceivable, and not the worst thing in the world.

Keeping the lefties separate, you end up moving Pronk down to 5th.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
hed be more effective in the 6 spot...
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Ridiculous and unsupportable.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Lofton
Blake
Sizemore
Martinez
Garko
Hafner
JP
Gutz
Barfield

How is that not more effective than what were doing now? hafner is slipping into a slump again
and with us having problems scoring runners who are on base, hafner seems like an automatic out (when he doesnt walk), and like that he can work on his hitting, whilest simultaniously relieving him of the prssure to produce big numbers.

c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
even Bizarro Pronk is a long way from an automatic out. you're poisoning your own position with that claim.

second, he's going to feel pressure to produce no matter what, based on the giant contract he just signed and the fact that he does seem to genuinely take pride in his work. pressure is a constant for a major league baseball player, whether batting third or ninth.

by nctribefan on Jul 27, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
i could tolerate pronks performance, but not the way things are going now, if we wait to long, this could take a very ugly turn very quickly, especially with us competeing against teams with double our payroll, and with more talent (ie Tigers or Yankees or BoSox)
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
I fail to see a correlation between how Pronk's struggles could get worse based on the payroll of the team we're playing.  Please, elaborate.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Wait you mean competeing for playoff spots, don't you?  Makes slightly more sense.  I thought you meant actually playing against them.  

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
more money = more resources to aquire better players

if the playoffs started today we'd get stomped....im beginning to think the indians overachieved this year, thanks to CC dominance and Faustos breakout season...if CC and Fausto hadn't of broken out the way they did this year, we'd be right there with the ChiSox

c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Wow with the hypotheticals.  And what if Lee and Westbrook had instead played up to their capabilities thus far?

Like no other sport, the MLB playoffs are a crapshoot.  I'm sure you hadn't circled the Cardinals for a WS championship last year.

by CBusSteve on Jul 27, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
If you believe in the Pythagorean win stat, you'd be right that they are overachieving... we should have lost about 3-4 more games so far. But, we're not the only AL team to be overacheiving, as SEA, CHW, LAA, and TB are also + in the Pyth W-L column.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
This is the kind of move I would support maybe next year or later, but for now I like Sizemore where he is.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
if aint aint broke, dont fix it!
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
To add to the Dotel rumor mill, don't know if this article's been linked before, but out of yesterday's KC Star, Dotel might want to stay a Royal.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... someone ... Lofton?
I must say that I'm startled with how excited I am for Lofton to come back.  I sure do wish that this would spell the end of the Trot Nixon Experience, but that is, I guess, too much to ask for.  Oh, and I distinctly remember Hammy saying last week that Lofton was more than willing to let "the young buck" (Sizemore) track down balls in CF.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 1:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I love it. No surprise there, I suppose.

Lofton fits our needs very, very well. Props to Chuck for bringing him up weeks ago. I believe he was the first person I saw mention him.

If it's BFran for Dotel, I'll scream with joy. That's a great set of deals in one day. It would just be classic Shapiro as I build him up in my mind: bides time, bides time, strikes like a cobra.

No one keeps things underwraps like the Indians' FO.

Max Ramirez is a nice prospect but that's about it. He's in A people. Even if he becomes a major league regular, we won't have to bitch about it for 2-4 years.  

by afh4 on Jul 27, 2007 1:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
We'd have to change Paul Byrd's nickname to the Asp or something.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Shap just comes off like such a hardass when he trades, as opposed to guys like Bowden and Bavasi who come off like drunk uncles. Everything gets leaked, they make pleas through the media, etc. It's pathetic.

by afh4 on Jul 27, 2007 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I think Shapiro and Antonetti should come to the press conference in pimp hats with big feathers sticking out of them.  DiBiasio should remove the mink coats draped over their shoulders before they sit down.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
So then Cliff Lee's nickname can be the Ass?

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I'm lovin' this trade.  I'm thinking the 4pm press conference is partly to allow other trade possibilites.  I won't be a bit surprised if there were two announcements.  I also think we might end up making a 3rd deal somehow.  Of course, that's idle speculation.

The more I think about Lofton returning, the more excited I am about it.

Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

to Cleveland ...
This is a good deal but let's stop acting like it's a heist. We traded for a 40 year old platoon left fielder.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
But i think much of the excitement, aside from nostalgic purposes, is they improved the major league roster today without giving up anything, whereas the Dotel rumors included giving up Ben Franklin.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Ben Franklin's VORP has been on a steady decline ever since discovering electricity.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Post of the year contender.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Value Over Replacement Politician?

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Whose VORP is higher then, Tom Brady or George Washington?

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Thomas Paine, ironically.  

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
He played in a bandbox, though.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Max Ramirez is much more of a loss than Ben Francisco.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
But neither is a substantial loss at this point.

by afh4 on Jul 27, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
I'm just a little skeptical is all. What if Ramirez moves to third base? Sure it'll only bite us in the ass in 3 years but we gave that up for a platoon left fielder? Who accrued most of his stats in a sandbox?

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
What if Lofton helps them win a World Series this year?

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Has there been real talk of moving Ramirez to third? I mean, you can play the "what if" game forever on prospects, but on average most prospects don't pan out. He could turn out to be the best hitter this side of Bonds, or he could turn out to be just another dude who does nothing. If this trade helps us win today, you go for it because we are in the playoff race now and three years is a LONG TIME away.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
I like Max, a lot. I love bats.

I also don't like deadline deals.

But, I can't argue with this. I like this. Max is not a great prospect, he's a good one. Lofton is a very good fit for this team.

I don't mean to act like it's robbery; it's just a fun, exciting move that might help out this year. Both sides got something they value.

I liked the Wickman deal last year and I think I would've liked it just as well had I been a Braves fan. This is just the reverse, and I still like this kind of deal.

My admiration for Shapiro is more how he drops the hammer out of nowhere and never gets fleeced.

by afh4 on Jul 27, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't heard anything recently about Ramirez
moving back to 3rd base; also, don't forget about Wes Hodges at Kinston.  And, for the record, Beau Mills is still playing at 3B at Lake County - perhaps they now think he can play 3B, as he was supposed to play at 1B by now, and the Captains don't have a legitimate 1B prospect playing there right now, so in essence, we have other 3B options besides Marte, so I really doubt Ramirez would have moved to 3B.

Overall, I like Ramirez and would have liked to have seen him stay, but I really wanted the Indians to acquire Lofton as I'd think he'll really help the offense, and I don't think the price was that high.  As mentioned, Ramirez is a good prospect, but not a great prospect, and he's still a distance away.  This also will probably lead to C Matthew McBride, who's highly thought of in his own right with his total package (not just offensively, but defensively, as he's stronger defensively than Ramirez,) up to Kinston - that will also allow newly drafted C Brian Juhl out of Stanford to start regularly at Lake County.

So, all in all, I think this was a smart move and a calculated move that will help us now, yet not really weaken us for the future.  Yes, Ramirez may turn out to be a solid player one day, but we have decent to solid catching depth, and there weren't many players out there on the trade market that can provide the return Lofton can for the price we paid.  Overall, I think it was a solid, good trade.

May Lofton help lead us back to the WS (and win it this time!  :-)

Just my 2 cents.  

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
word.
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Who's acting like it's a heist?  People are saying that they are really excited about having Kenny Lofton back in Cleveland.  And, if he takes away a bunch of at-bats from Nixon, we should be excited - he might be 40 but he's better than Nixon at everything.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Everything?  Including pies?  I think nobody, I mean nobody, beats the Trotster at making pies.
Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
I don't know.  Mike Rouse had a pretty mean pie on Gutz the other night...  I'm just saying, Trot needs to be looking over his shoulder.

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: to Cleveland ...
Fair enough; I'll grant you Trot's superiority in making pies.  Of course, the Indians could just make him a special assistant to the manager and get the same thing out of him.  Sort of like a poor man's Tom Berenger in ML2.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Not funny having the LGT top banner reading "Sabathia Traded to Expos"

All I saw before the page loaded was Sabathia traded and my heart stopped!

Still an Ohio boy through and through!

by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 27, 2007 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Agreed.  That was a bit unexpected.

It's taking forever to load LGT pages.

by SpringTrainingFun on Jul 27, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
In fairness to me, that has been up there for almost a week.  I'm amazed nobody has commented on it before.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Thank you for noticing!  It's hard work I'm doing here.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
You changed it to a South Park quote.  There, someone noticed.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Is now the time to start listing our favorite Lofton moments?  I know climbing the center field wall and snagging a home run is going to be popular, but for me it's when he scored the game winner (or the one that tied it, not sure) in the famous Seattle comeback and Eddie Taubensee lifted him up and carried him on his shoulder as he pumped his fists.  Classic.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
When he scored from 2nd on a Randy Johnson wild pitch.  I believe it was in the playoffs against Seattle.

by rog on Jul 27, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Ding!  Winner!

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
absolutely.  kenny had his head on a swivel.

by emil minty on Jul 27, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Quick question - does Lofton have an option for next year on his contract?  I assume no, but figured I'd check.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
nope.

Cot's Baseball Contracts is a great source for this sort of info.

by nctribefan on Jul 27, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
ESPN Radio again saying Cliff is being sent down.  They are so far the only outlet reporting this.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
One thing to put a lid on?  The talk about "bringing Kenny back."

First, unless you're Greg Brady in Hawaii, magic totems don't work.

Second, any temporary attendance boost pales in comparison to the revenue boost from bringing playoff baseball to town.  I think Kenny is a piece of the playoff puzzle, but given the option of acquiring Kenny and a shot at the playoffs or acquiring a hated rival and making the playoffs, every GM would choose the latter.

Finally, any casual fan excited about Kenny's return is also likely to be the fan who bitches when Kenny isn't in the lineup every day.

Love the deal as a baseball deal, but it isn't a lot more than that.

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Aren't the fans who would bitch about Lofton not being in the lineup bitching now?

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
My mother, whom I use as the definition of a fan who jumped on the bandwagon in the 90s, will be thrilled that Kenny is back as she watches on Extra Innings on the satellite dish in Port Charlotte, Florida.
Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
With Boof Bonser going tonight, Kenny will start if he makes it here.  And to think I had to turn down an invite 'cuz of dinner with the outlaws at Lola...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Something seems to be going on in Cleveland; GM Mark Shapiro has been in Buffalo watching Jeremy Sowers and Aaron Laffey.  Laffey was nearly called up recently.  Not much talk about trading Sowers previously, but he might be an interesting chip.  He's similar to Kevin Slowey. They might find success in the NL.

 http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/molonys-latest-.html

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 2:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
That was from yesterday. And with Lee going down Laffey or Sowers is coming up. But I thought I might mention it because of a remote possibility.

by world dictator on Jul 27, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
I think Shapiro wishes Sowers was like Slowey.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
He's similar to Kevin Slowey.

Except, y'know, Slowey is right handed, gets his fastball into the 90s, and strikes people out.

But apart from that, yeah, they're similar.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
ESPN saying that Lofton will be in the lineup tonight

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Maybe they're holding out until 4 pm on the press conference so Kenny can be there in person.
Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
You beat me to it.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
The AP is reporting that Lofton will be in tonight's line-up, and that Wedge is saying that he will play either right or left field.  He doesn't have the arm to play in right, so he's got to play left.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Funny stat of the day:

K-Love is 1-3 with a BB in his career against Carl Willis.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 2:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Clubhouse chemistry trouble ALERT!  Pie man?  Closed door players and one coach meeting?

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
that's hilarious.

he's also a year older than Eric Wedge.

by nctribefan on Jul 27, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Worthwhile reading for those of you who have a sudden love for Max Ramirez.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 2:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
This is the point I meant to make earlier.  Max-Ram is a solid prospect, but he's the next Garko, not the next Victor.  And that's assuming he pans out.

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Someone on the boards at ESPN (http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=mlb&id=general&tid=1162659&lid=5) is claiming that there are radio reports and blog postings saying the Francisco has been traded for Dotel.  No links to anything, so take it with a grain of salt.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jul 27, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
if we finish that deal of Francisco for Dotel, and sending Lee to AAA for Laffey, i think Shapiro has made excellent roster moves....

by luifer5 on Jul 27, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
ESPN reporting Cisco for Dotel

by johnnyromano on Jul 27, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
ESPN TV? Their website says nothing (forums clearly excluded from that statement).
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I am officially not getting any work done.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
lol... me neither. But they handed me my paycheck for the week already. Not a great move.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
me neither
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
I've been reading a few different forums (ESPN and Swerb's) that the Francisco for Dotel deal is "being rumored."  Could just be a meme or something people have read here but its makes sense for both teams I think.....

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
At this point, I think our discussion here is being reported as "rumors."  No, I'm not kidding.

(Say hi to the Google News people!  Hi!!)

by Jay on Jul 27, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
That's exactly what I was thinking because just after the extended riff about 50 posts up those types of "rumors" were reported.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
That would be, say hi to the Google News link algorithm, no?

by fleerdon on Jul 27, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
So Laffey isn't expected til start til the 4th of August, right? With the off day we skip that start once..

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
If cliff goes down, we would either make no move as Lofton is here or bring up Laramujica between now and Cliff's next slot.

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Yeah, I don't know why we're worried about Lofton or the reliever. I feel as though there's no move to make more important than the internal one today.

by fleerdon on Jul 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Are we not more likely to give Carmona an extra day off and let him pitch Tuesday rather than use Laffey/Stanford on Tuesday?

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Tried the KC sports radio, but they're doing some sort of "stump the host" trivia thing.

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I love Lofton back in Cleveland. He's gonna bring em back to the glory days.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Munch on sports in on WKNR... only mentioned Lofton thus far. One hour before the press conference kids!
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Speaking of, Munch is annoying....I dunno, maybe it's his voice and he can't complete one sentence without going off topic 100 times.

by tborish on Jul 27, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Haha agreed. He has what is called "extremely hypernasal speech". And he feels the need to agree with every caller no matter what they say, followed by talking about what a great town Cleveland is, over and over again.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
not to continue off-topic, but he's beyond awful.  when he's not talking about how much he loves cleveland, he's talking about the Ratt show he saw in '87 at the Euclid Tavern or about the tough neighborhood he grew up in off of Harvard.

Great sports talk.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
And for those of us not from Ohio, this is unbearable.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Further to this talk about a 5th starter....

Looking at our schedule it looks like we only need that 5th starter on August 4th, 9th and 25th, assuming that Fausto goes this Tuesday.

Considering that, I wouldn't be averse to seeing Stanford get the 4th and 9th starts, and seeing whether Cliff, Sowers or Laffey is looking the best by the 25th.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lee and Francisco out
Lee and Francisco both sent down to Buffalo, according to WKNR

by tborish on Jul 27, 2007 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
Lee is sent down for Ed Mujica according to indians.com
The Florida Gators in 2006...so why not the Cleveland Indians in 2007!

by GatorTribeFan on Jul 27, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
Source.

Following another in a string of disappointing performances from Lee, the Indians optioned the struggling left-hander to Triple-A Buffalo on Friday afternoon. He will be replaced on the active roster by right-handed reliever Ed Mujica, who was called up from the Bisons.

The Indians' top starting option at Buffalo is left-hander Aaron Laffey (7-3, 3.22 ERA), and he could eventually replace Lee in the rotation. Left-hander Jeremy Sowers, who was in the Tribe's Opening Day rotation but was demoted to Buffalo in mid-June, is another option after posting consecutive wins for the first time this season.

For now, however, the club has the luxury of Monday's off-day to reshuffle the rotation and avoid the issue for another week.

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
Here's something really interesting in that article:
Lee had two Minor League option years remaining. But because he was on a multiyear contract (the Indians gave him a three-year, $14 million extension last summer), he had to pass through waivers unclaimed before the Indians could send him down.
It was Lee on waivers this week, NOT Cabrera! And nobody claimed him! Wow.

by mrich on Jul 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
So if no one claimed him on waivers, no one is interested in trading for him.  Right?  Or is there a hidden flaw in that logic?

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
No one claimed him because they knew that the Indians would just revoke the waiver claim.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
OK, thank you.  I forgot about that part.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
Matt Miller must've really pissed someone off. The guy has been unreal this season, has an ERA below 2, meanwhile Eddie Moo blows the save last night, pitches atrociously all season long, and still gets called up. Hell, I would've taken Koplove over Moo. You've gotta figure this is Eddie's last chance.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
They're afraid he'll tweak something on the bus ride to Cleveland.

But honestly, I'd rather have Miller up than Mujica. I'd rather have Miller up than Mastny or Lewis, also.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
Yeah, I don't get that

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
You have to figure that they're waiting until the roster is a little more stable before they bring up Miller. I have a feeling he will be huge for us over the next 3 months.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee and Francisco out
I'm not wild about bringing up Mujica.  I kind of feel like now we have two guys we can't hardly ever use.  I mean, could we do something with Cabrera already please?

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
If Cliff is getting thrown over, I'm liking Stanford more and more for now.  Both Sowers and Laffey could  be premature...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I like this deal, provided that Lofton replaces Nixon in the lineup; Lofton is an upgrade at the plate, in the field, and on the bases.  He may be a downgrade making pies, but I can live with that.

I'm not thrilled to see Max Ramirez traded; he may very well hit his way to majors some day.  But, I guess I'm OK with it, for these reasons:

  • Texas wasn't going to make the deal for an obvious non-prospect; somebody with upside had to go.

  • Ramirez is reportedly not a good defensive catcher, and he's had shoulder problems in the past.  He might end up as a 1B or DH (where Ramirez's contemporary would be Beau Mills).

  • There are other catchers (Torregas, Gimenez, McBride) in the system, with something to offer.

Good luck, Max.
Welcome Back, Kenny!

by CaptainEasy on Jul 27, 2007 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
This is a great deadline deal, giving away something you don't need for something that you do. They don't need Max Ramirez who is an above average prospect only because he can catch. If he has to move off of catcher then...bleh. Meanwhile we get an OF who has an OBP of near .400, plays good defense, and can steal a base for the next 2, hopefully 3 months. Good move Shapiro!

by columbus714 on Jul 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
While you guys are going crazy here at Lets Go Tribe, don't forget that training camp coverage will begin on Dawgs By Nature for the Browns in a few hours or so ;)

I love the fact that we have Lofton back for a playoff contending season. He can put the bat on the ball and steal bases in the clutch.

Dawgs By Nature - Browns version of Lets Go Tribe.

by Chris Pokorny on Jul 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
As the resident Steeler fan here (or at least it seems- no one else is speaking out), I must also point out a link to Behind the Steel Curtain!
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Hey now... this isn't a football board, so I'll lay off the trash talk, but I know I can root for whomever I please. And so it's the Steelers.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Being an Indians fan and a Browns fan are not mutually inclusive.

I'm the worst kind of football fan (for a Clevelander) ... a Broncos one.

Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

by emd2k3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
While that's painful - it's not as bad as being a Steelers or Raven's fan.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
What the hell is going on around here?  

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Get real. C and O is like the #1 rated poster these days.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 27, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Haha unfortunately E5 decreed yesterday that you were unbannable. Hilarious timing.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Is this a ban-worthy post?
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Sweet there are at least two of us. The best of both worlds, the Tribe and the Steelers. My excuse is I grew up in Youngstown which is pretty much equal distance from Cleveland and Pittsburgh and liked the Indians and the Steelers from an early age.

by columbus714 on Jul 27, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Finally, signs of life! If it appeases some Browns fans here, I'll give you my story. I am currently working in Pittsburgh for the summer. If it makes you feel better, looking at the city-by-city comparison, PGH is awful. Doesn't hold a candle to CLE. Downtown CLE is just beautiful for me, and it's my #2 city all time (behind New Orleans, which has stolen my heart after all the relief work I've been doing down there after Katrina and Rita). I'm not a huge Pirates fan, but my PGH friends here at college are, so I guess they are my "NL team." But why a Steeler fan after 20 years in CLE? Simple. My uncle is a three-time Super Bowl champion defensive lineman for, you guessed it: those Stillers. I'll leave it up to you to figure out whom.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Nice. I'll also recommend a website for you. Heelssoxsteelers. The writer is good and the comments section is the best football discussion I've had. Here is the link
http://heelssoxsteelers.blogspot.com/

by columbus714 on Jul 27, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Hector Luna is DFA'd to remove him from the 40-man roster, according to WKNR.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Methinks another move will soon be coming. Instead of just Cabrera, we now have 2 guys in the bullpen that Wedge refuses to lose unless we are up/down by double digit runs.

by ASP on Jul 27, 2007 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I'm glad they improved at the deadline. They really need a starter but the market doesn't have anybody so they'll have to look on the farm for a good one. I think they should still go after a guy like Lohse, Fogg, Rodrigo Lopez, Kip Wells, or Joel Pineiro. They aren't great but if the Tribe doesn't want to use Miller/Laffy/Sowers these guys will be better than Lee/Westbrook/Mujica
http://www.beegcellent.com Not your typical baseball blog

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Now THIS is ban-worthy. This guy has done this all week.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Heck, advocating the acquisition of Joel Pineiro is borderline ban-worthy.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Lee = Fogg, Lohse, Lopez, Wells or Pineiro.

I'd rather give Laffey a shot.

Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

by emd2k3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I implied that would be better. But if they're bringing up Mujica, that means no Laffey. They are trying to protect him I guess. Therefore they have to make a move.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Actually, I'd still say Lee is better than those choices.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 27, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
None of the guys you just named are better than Jake Westbrook. None.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I wouldn't say any of them are better than Cliff Lee, either.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Current Lee is equal to those guys. Potential Lee is better.

Maybe Buffalo can bring out Potential Lee, potentially.

Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

by emd2k3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
They may not be better than Westbrook when Westbrook is healthy. They are better than him now, and all are an improvement over Lee. Most have ~4.5 ERA and low 1.5 WHIP compared to Lee's 6.38/1.6

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Westbrook is healthy. The guy has been bad for 60 IP. Looking to replace him with crappy starters is a waste of time. Lee got to 100 IP before having the plug pulled. You don't think they'll give Westbrook a similar cushion?

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
You may have named 5 of the worst pitchers in major league baseball. I don't even know where to start.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
The only starters that are "on the market" whom I'd consider upgrades would be Vazquez, Garland and possibly Livan, but we'd get fleeced by KW in all likelihood, and Livan is Livan (blech).

Oh, Willis too, but Willis is "on the market" every year, and never gets traded.

by one size more on Jul 27, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
If you want to get rid of every prospect chasing these guys at their max value go ahead. I'll take my chances and dip lower on the totem pole.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
You want me to be a dreamer and say let's go after Dontrelle, Oswalt, etc. You've got to be realistic. 4.5 ERA for a Rockies pitcher at altitude is not that bad. They would be fairly easy to land. Or...you can keep Cliff Lee in there and lose every one of his starts. These guys aren't THAT bad. They aren't great but you know a deal needs to be done.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I argued last night with you about this, and you keep making the same ridiculous points. I'm done.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
This text I got from a friend pretty much sums up how the fairweather fans will react to the Lofton trade:

"I'm pumped.  We really needed a good veteran on the team.  I can't wait to see him play again!"

I rolled my eyes.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
It was actually the last two sentences I rolled my eyes at.  Most fans are excited because Lofton played for us "when we were good," and they know/love him.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
And as the first call comes in to WKNR complaining that Dolan said he'd spend money when the time came, I decide to close the online stream.

by mkwng on Jul 27, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
The last caller just wanted to trade for Griffey, and Munch countered that we could get Carl Crawford for Max Ramirez.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
My brother's text just said "third time's a charm".  

I too am pumped.  I too can't wait to see his gold necklace bounce around Baerga-style as he flies around left field.  It will certainly bring chills back.  

Now, it is more significant that he fits a need and is a big upgrade over what we had.  Still, there isn't anything wrong with a little nostalgia.

by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 27, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Now, it is more significant that he fits a need and is a big upgrade over what we had.  Still, there isn't anything wrong with a little nostalgia.

This could just as easily be a comment about Julio Franco circa 1996.

Eerie.  (Or Erie.)

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Anyone have a link to where we can listen/watch the press conference?

by MikeCP on Jul 27, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I was about to post this as well... wondering if it'll be live on MLB.com or something.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I would bet good money that WTAM will broadcast the press conference at http://www.wtam.com

The bad news is that you'll have to endure Triv.

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofting to Cleveland ...
I'm guessing the Dotel deal fell through?

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofting to Cleveland ...
Isn't there more time? or is today the deadline? I thought it was Monday.
Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

by emd2k3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofting to Cleveland ...
Yeah, last day in July's the deadline, so there's lots of time.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofting to Cleveland ...
I guess we wait.  Indians.com says in the Lofton article that we are still actively trying to acquire a reliever.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I was hoping we'd trade Lee, but then I looked at his contract, and now I'm convinced he needs some time to work things out because he's still really cheap for the next 2 years.
Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

by emd2k3 on Jul 27, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Or you could look at it like he's a really expensive AAA player.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
true, but this works both ways.  He's very attractive to other teams because of this as well.  

by MikeCP on Jul 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I'm listening to WTAM and they're ripping ignorant fair weather fans.  I never thought I'd agree with these guys...

Can't wait for the press conference.

Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning
I've been up in Alaska for a while now where the tube and pipes which run the internet are mainly full of oil and natural gas...but this is enough to draw me out of hiding.  

I'm excited we're getting Lofton back with no cost to the major league team for at least 2 years (Ramirez's development time).  I've given a lot of love to Ramirez in my minor action diaries and he's definitely a favorite of mine, but I still think this is a good deal.  Lofton should be a useful and productive player the rest of this season plus he does add that 90s nostalgia factor which, as a fan, I like.

I think Ramirez is a better prospect than he was back in February when BPro dissed on him a little (mainly because he's added more power this season), but he's still quite a ways away from being a contributing big leaguer.  His line at Kinston as a 22-year old is eerily similar to Victor Martinez, but as Jay and others pointed out above, Victor was already thought of as a great catcher and didn't really sky-rocket offensively till AA Akron.  Ramirez may still spike offensively, but it's highly doubtful he'll make it to the big leagues as a catcher.  A .300/.400/.450 corner infielder/corner outfielder has some value, but not nearly as much as the same line coming from a catcher.

And I'd love the Francisco/Dotel trade possibility.  Francisco's nice and all, but Brian Barton might as well already be "the next Ben Francisco"...albeit with a slightly different batting approach.

by APV on Jul 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning
Plus, if Lofton decides to play another year and signs elsewhere in the off-season, we're likely to get some draft pick compensation...yeah?

by APV on Jul 27, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to
The funny thing about all the lack of interest in Ramirez now that he's a Ranger is that what he is doing this year in High A is very comparable to what Victor Martinez did at the same level at the same age. In fact, Ramirez is doing slightly better.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Lofton is back in the Indians Clubhouse.  Happy day.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
WKNR debate: Is Lofton clubhouse cancer?
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Also!
Lofton: potential Hall of Famer?
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
As I posted over at Baseball Think Factory, this trade all but guarantees that Lofton will be inducted into the Hall Of Very Good as an Indian.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Haha they're confusing "clubhouse cancer" with "an a-hole to the media". I could care less how our players treat these egotistic morons.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Couldn't agree more.  Hamilton, for one, is very generous in his praise for Lofton.  Those that have labeled him as 'moody' haven't been able to develop a rapport with him.  And, I like athletes to have a little edge.  Not everybody is a big teddy-bear like Sean Casey.  Given the choice, I'd take the edgier guy - certainly on a contending team.  

by macasson on Jul 27, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Also, Sean Casey sucks, so given the choice I'd take the less crappy guy. Could just be me, though.

by zempf on Jul 27, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Boom!  Yeah, I didn't mean to compare Lofton and Casey, just the idea of the media creating the perception of 'wonderful guy' vs. 'moody guy'.  Always drives me crazy.

by macasson on Jul 27, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Switch over to WTAM - much more intelligent discussion.  

Well, that is a relative statement.

Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
4 PM- Shapiro press conference
4:30 PM- Wedge press conference
5:15 PM- Kenny Lofton press conference

Per STO.

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Will STO carry the press conferences? And if so, that makes me wish I had access to a TV.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
STO is at least carrying the Shapiro and Lofton press conferences from what they said.  

Three different press conferences... the guy is already a problem!  ;)

Shapiro on STO now.

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
WTAM also has audio.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
My first reaction is that he's a more expensive, less injury-prone version of Matt Miller.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
At 3.5/year through 09? Not sure that's our style.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Anyone else hoping that Shapiro has another bombshell during the press conference?
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
If Shapiro comes out with a black turtleneck on a la Steve Jobs and uses the "One More Thing..." bit, that'd make my day.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Shapiro says Lofton likely to bat 2nd

by palcal on Jul 27, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Can't see him lasting long in the 2-hole. You can't let teams throw a lefty against Sizemore, Lofton, Vic and Haf.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Lofton is going to platoon. You don't have to worry about him hitting lefties.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
I still don't like the thought of letting the opposing manager dictate having to use your platoon earlier in the game than you would otherwise want.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
That's waht a platoon is. It's absolutely dictated by the other manager.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
No but I'm saying with our abilities to knock out starters early, I don't want to see us get stuck in the 5th inning against a lefty longman who can mow down the meat of our lineup. I have faith in Wedge to work out this issue...he's been great adjusting our lineup all year.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
We want to knock starters out early. This is what you hope for. Score a lot of runs and force a team to use the bullpen. If you get to a starter for 8 runs in 4 innings that's exactly what you want to have happen. This is why batting four lefties in a row is a masterstroke when they are facing a RHP.

by osoc13 on Jul 27, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
We knock out starters early, we don't necessarily blow teams out while doing so.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
This is worrying about a problem that isn't really a problem.

How often do we get opposing starters out of a game early without scoring a lot of runs? Most often if we knock an opposing pitcher out of a game before the 6th inning it's the result of us scoring, not him throwing a lot of pitches but keeping us to 2 runs.

We might put ourselves in a bit of a hole after the starter gets pulled, but if we've scored runs then the fault of blowing the lead will be on the pitcher and defense.

Also, this is assuming that the opposing team will have a long man in their bullpen who is a RHP and that he can go 3-5 innings without problems.

Finally, Victor is a switch hitter and Hafner's splits are practically the same.

by osoc13 on Jul 27, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
See my post 2 comments below. I'm not worried.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Neither am I. It's just that I honestly do not understand why the Indians don't do this more often.

Well, the reason is the risk-reward is not there for Wedge....Such is conventional wisdom.

by osoc13 on Jul 27, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Our lineup is good but we rarely knock out starters that early. If we do, Michaels takes Lofton's spot for the rest of the game. It's not a big deal at all.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Only reason I'm not too worried is that I have faith in Michaels against lefties and righties for the rest of the game after that.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Don't attempt to spread your bizarre religious beliefs. All statistics surveyed back to the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that Michaels has not, cannot, and will not hit righthanders.

by Rochester on Jul 27, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
"According to Triv rumor is indians are going to get Dotel."

From WMFan over at TheClevelandFan.com   I feel strongly this is our responsibility.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
What would it take to get Dotel. With about 6 teams in the hunt for him, the price would be steep.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
The rumor we started earlier today had Francisco for Dotel.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
That's as sketch as it gets.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
"In another move, outfielder Ben Francisco was sent down to Buffalo. His spot was taken by Kenny Lofton, who the Indians acquired in trade earlier today.

Infielder Hector Luna was designated for assignment to make room for Lofton on the 40-man roster."

Link

From Cleveland.com Blog

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Francisco was doing well, and had some speed. Too bad you can't really send Trot down to the minors at this point.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Summary for those who can't watch:

  • Lofton to hit 2nd against RHP.
  • Focus is now on pitching, but won't rule out another offensive move.
  • Ownership has given permission to increase payroll.
  • Trade came together pretty easily, Texas liked the system depth.
  • Difficult emotionally to send Lee to Buffalo, but right baseball decision.  Still feel strongly that Lee can contribute this season.  Have to win games now, not develop players.
  • Gave Lee ample opportunity to change and he couldn't do it at the major league level.
  • Lee was mad at decision, Shap says it is the right way to take it.
  • Not looking at starters, feel good about Sowers/Lee/Laffey at AAA and no need to spend prospects when one of those can contribute.
  • Laffey has improved his breaking ball consistently to put himself on major league radar.
  • Trading is slower this year with more teams in contention and increased revenue.  

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
WTAM had Shapiro's conference.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I love the 3rd-last one. I've only been stressing this to a certain poster around these parts for the last day.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Haha no, the 3rd-last point in his list. Not you. Haha sorry about that.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
wasn't saying anything.  I just wqsn't sure what you were alluding to...

by stuart dean on Jul 27, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Too bad they Cleveland isn't giving the ball over to these guys. When they do, I'd be fine. I think they should. They aren't and that's the fact.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
It's confirmed that Laffey is starting in Lee's spot. What are you talking about. You're killing me man!

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I think we've got Kip Wells' agent in the house boys.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
It's one start. This was just announced. Sometimes teams don't like to bring up arms to quickly. Sometimes one shouldn't bring up young arms out of desperation. I want to see this guy pitch. Still, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up a pitcher with experience, rather than pitch a rookie down the stretch.

by Beegcellent on Jul 27, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Mark Shapiro has stated that WE'RE NOT GETTING A STARTER! Holy bejesus.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
But all of the pitchers you have named most certainly will underproduce Laffey. They suck, all of them.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
Wow I just had a vision of Bonser having to face 4 lefties to start off the game tonight.

Grin.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
yep... that's all it took for me to bet the over 9.5 runs tonight.

by rolub on Jul 27, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Schwab just said on WTAM that Laffey will get the call on August 4 to start in Lee's spot.

by NickFantana on Jul 27, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Ya think Wedge told Lee before last night's start that they were considering sending him down if he didn't get it together? That they would've demoted him 5 days earlier but he talked them out of it?
That's how I'm reading the tip 'o the cap gesture--as an exasperated "I tried."

by homelytourist on Jul 27, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Perhaps he was just trying to flag a cab down to get to Buffalo.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 27, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Triv interviewing Shapiro on WTAM.com right now.
Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jul 27, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Good Lord, Wedge needs to arrive at the news conference right now.

I can't deal with any more of these STO phone callers and with Cairns and Brown saying things like Aaron Laffey is untouchable in a trade.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
All Bets Are Off is terrible.  There I said it.  I know, I know, I went out on a limb.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting
Outside the callers, hosts, and bumpers, its not THAT bad...

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
If Lofton takes Nixon's ABs, I'm all for this. But if he takes Gutierrez's, the upgrade is much less.  

by oxforddave on Jul 27, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
Lofton is a LF.  Gutz is a RF.  Lofton is left-handed, Gutz is right-handed.  I don't see there being too much of a conflict of interest.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
Having watched Wedge all season tinker with this outfield, you really think it's that simple?

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
I don't understand, are you saying you think Lofton will play RF?  I can't see that happening.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
No but I can certainly see Lofton and Nixon both playing against righties quite a bit initially, thus taking away time from Gutz.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
But that was how it was always going to be. If Nixon isn't getting AB's against righties, then most liekly he's off the team.

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
Nixon will still be on this team even if we only give him half of the at-bats in RF against righties.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nixon hasn't been playing all the time against
RHP before Lofton arrives, so why would he get more playing time now that Lofton is here?  Gutz will get some ABs against RHP and will get all the ABs against LHP.
Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Nixon hasn't been playing all the time against
Exactly. This trade really affected nothing in Nixon/Gutz's playing time

by Joe. on Jul 27, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Nixon hasn't been playing all the time against
Not entirely true. It's taking away any at-bats Gutz would've had against righties in LF. But I'd certainly take Lofton in that situation.

by supermarioelia on Jul 27, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, but Francisco was getting most of those ABs
so it's a minor loss for Gutz, and like you said, Lofton would probably upgrade that position, while having Gutz out in RF more regularly (and having Trot out there less when Gutz was in LF) will likely upgrade that position by a small to moderate margin.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lofton returning to Cleveland ...
Lofton doesn't have the arm for RF.  Where is this talk coming from?  

He's been brought in as the platoon partner to Michaels - which makes a wonderful platoon.

Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Nixon in the lineup tonight and Gutz out...  I'm not that happy after hearing that....

by Fundamentals on Jul 27, 2007 4:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Can we not DFA Trot yet? I mean, C'MON! Lofton can provide Veteran Leadership (tm)

by gte619n on Jul 27, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

jhjg
Sorry if it's been posted in the thread already, but I can't skim through 500+ posts and still keep my sanity.

When will Lofton join the club, and when will he first play?? Tonight??

by obobcatu on Jul 27, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: jhjg
That's what we're hearing.

by nickjs21 on Jul 27, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: jhjg
Tonight and tonight.  He may already be in Cleveland.

by thejamootz on Jul 27, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: jhjg
He's already in Cleveland - WTAM reported he was greeted in the Clubhouse earlier by CC, just about the only player who was here when he left last.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: jhjg
I could make some comment about Lofton being black, but that would be in horrible, terrible taste.  So I won't say it.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 27, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: jhjg
Yet somehow you did... ;)
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Nixon have good career numbers against
Bonser?  They probably just want to give Gutierrez a night off, plus he'll definitely be in there tomorrow with Santana going.  
Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
I now remember why I NEVER listen to sports talk shows.  They're bashing Travis - maybe "pointing fingers as to a reason we might not make the playoffs".  He's still a damn good player even when he's having a down year.  Plus he's a threat just being there.  Will we be better once he gets going?  Of course - but c'mon folks.

Who do you think is more important to the Tribe's remaining season - Westbrook or Pronk?

Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
honestly, it's got to be Westy. having four competent starters is huge

by Roger Dorn on Jul 27, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They're both pretty important, though I think
you can overcome Pronk's lack of offense a bit more easily than you can Westbrook's lack of being his old self.  After all, the Indians were scoring 6 runs a game in May when Pronk was hitting all of .228.  The Indians also went 20-10 in May.

I don't know how many of Westbrook's starts we've actually won, but I know it hasn't been many, which is also the same case with Lee.  If we can only win Sabathia, Carmona, and Byrd's starts, but keep losing Westbrook and Lee's starts, that's only 3-2, and that's presuming we win all three of the games that our top 3 pitchers are pitching, and as occurred on Tuesday, we're not going to win all those games those three pitch, even when they do pitch well, especially with the way the offense has been lately (hopefully, Lofton will help to jumpstart this offense again.)  Therefore, we might only be 2-3 going through the rotation, and we're not likely going to reach the playoffs that way.

So, while both are important, I think the Indians need Westbrook to rebound a bit more than Hafner, though I hope the "old" Pronk shows up the final 2 months of the regular season and in October - his "old" bat would certainly be welcome and would make things easier for us as well.  But we definitely need one of the other starting spots, at least, to step up if we're going to have a good chance of reaching the playoffs, and possibly winning the AL Central (which would be important because it could give us homefield advantage for that first series, and as we all know, we're a better home team than a road team.)

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks - too small a SSS - it's probably
just to rest Gutierrez so that's he ready to face Santana tomorrow night, though Victor hasn't hit much since he was given a day off on Monday, so maybe that's not such a good idea.

Probably, it's just to give Trot some ABs; hopefully, Gutz will remain hot even with a night off.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 27, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Wedgie confirming that Lofton is a top of the order player - in the opening statement.  If he say's "that experience 'up top'" one more time...
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
WTAM is now perpetuating the Dotel-Sisco rumor we started.  Good times.
Still in 1st in at least one of the LGT Fantasy Leagues.

by mjmarble on Jul 27, 2007 4:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
I had been planning on going to this game with family coming in town since yesterday, but we were waiting for a final count. Now the online ticketing isn't working and i'm on hold due to a "unusually high volume of ticket requests". They didn't just bring Kenny to play baseball.

by TheVanillaGorilla on Jul 27, 2007 4:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ...
and you can't buy them after 4. Good thing i'm smart and all. Ummm. . . go tribe.

by TheVanillaGorilla on Jul 27, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Rizzo reporting ... Lofton returning to Clevel
Great deal perfect fit in LF and leadoff or 2nd hitter.  
Champion of the Kelly Shoppach for Catcher and Franklin Gutiérrez for Right Fielder campaigns.

by E5 on Jul 27, 2007 5:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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