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Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questionable Decision-Making

Dry_iron_tiny by NickFantana on Comment 343 comments

With a heading like that, it must be time for the trade deadline, the magical time of year when eight guys try to make twenty two guys look stupid.

Roundup of the day so far:

Dotel is still available according to most everywhere.

Gagne is rumored to Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, Brewers but he has a partial no-trade which includes the Indians and he wants to close.  So discussion on him re: us can stop there.

Some new names you may not have heard:

  • Johnny Gomes is being shopped by the D-Rays, along with continuing Dan Wheeler/Al Reyes conversations.
  • Damaso Marte for Alan Horne of the Yankees was a rumor, the Yankees said no.
  • Cordero and Rauch are eminently available
  • Dunn may end up with the Nationals (?!?!?)
  • The Tigers may acquire Jack Wilson from the Pirates
  • Finally, and most interestingly, a rumor was posted here that says the Diamondbacks are shopping Carlos Quentin for starting pitching and the Indians and Cliff Lee are part of the discussion.  
    • And Jonah Keri said in an ESPN chat regarding the Indians today:

    "If anything were to happen, I'd imagine we'd be talking about a relatively minor RP trade."

    So, with all that in mind, it seems that maybe the Indians will be significant players but more likely sit on the sidelines, sticking a toe in at an opportune time.  So this thread is welcome to any and all teams, scenarios and so forth.

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    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and..
    I know Wheeler and Reyes have both been linked to the Tribe, but does anyone think they'll really help us much?

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 11:26 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and..
    Of course they would, they'd be throwing the leverage innings rather than Mastny, Cabrera, etal.

    A backend with Wheeler/reyes, Betancourt and Perez is pretty enticing.

    The problem is what the cost would be to pry Wheeler/reyes from TB. We'll see.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 11:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and..
    Anyone know why HOU made the Wiggi-Wheeler trade?

    by JulioBernazard on Jul 31, 2007 1:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and..
    Cause they DFA'd Morgan Ensberg & needed someone to play 3B.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 1:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and..
    Wheeler is due to leave as a FA or high arbitration, something like that. Wiggy is under control thru 2009.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    I'd love Carlos Quentin. It's too early for me to really consider what he's worth, but he's a player I like. Stanford guy who can just rake.

    I'm pretty sure he and Garko played at Stanford together.

    I think what Keri is calling a "minor reliever" is probably going to be a big deal to us, as fans of the team. Obviously, we're not going to go get Dunn today, but if we get somebody like Rauch or Damasao Marte, that's not minor in our world.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 11:29 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    I'm beginning to think Stanford boys are encouraged to lean over the plate.  Garko and Quentin share one quirky skill: They get plunked a lot.  HBP totals for Quentin from 2004-2006:  43, 29, 39.

    BP is pretty high on him.  "He may not have Chris Young's upside, but he's the safer bet for a solid career."

    I wish I had never heard this rumor.  I'm going to be excited until 3 PM when it eventually doesn't happen.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 11:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Note that the Quentin thing isn't even at the rumor level -- it's the guys on mlbtraderumors.com saying "Arizona is shopping Quentin for a SP. Cleveland could trade Lee. They should talk." So don't be too upset when it doesn't happen.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    I know.  I just wish I'd never heard anything.

    Mark, do this trade.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    But, if the Quentin part is true, there is literally no way Byrnes hasn't heard from Shapiro.  I mean, I don't like to infer any more than the next guy but you'd have to call on a rumor like that.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 12:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    This seems like something that would be more likely to happen this offseason (esp. considering the chances of it happening now are 0).  Regardless of who the partner is, at this point Lee seems to be as likely as anyone to be traded away this winter.  I'd guess AZ would be interested in Lee, given their interest in and success at building rotation depth recently.  But first Shapiro has to feel confident enough in Miller's health or Laffey/Sowers' ability to even think about this.

    by tribemountain on Jul 31, 2007 12:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    If you read into the rumor, it states that the Nationals have a lot of interest in Quentin. I wonder if it is actually specualtion that it is a three team trade with Cordero ending up in Cleveland and Quentin in DC.

    Otherwise I agree that it would be more likely an offseason move for the Indians to get Quentin.

    by cel13 on Jul 31, 2007 1:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Thats a rip off IMO. Lee for Cordero? No thanks. I'd much rather do Lee for Quintin and I'm not even sure about that

    by world dictator on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Cordero is under control through 2009, so it's not exactly a rental.

    Does the quality of the two players not factor into your approval at all?

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    If he's under control until 2009, any idea why the Nationals are shopping him?

    by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2007 2:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Because they need to be looking at 2010, if not later.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Also, since he's excelled for several years in a row and they never bothered to lock him up to a John Hart Contract, he's going to be almost as expensive as a free-agent reliever after this season.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    He's that much more valuable to other teams if he's not just a rental this year, while the Nationals aren't particularly in need of a closer given that they suck.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    BIG TRADE ALERT /sarcasm
    Cardinals acquire Joel Piñeiro... which is weird that STL gave up anything for him, seeing that he was on waivers less than a week ago.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 11:30 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    I would love a minor RP trade.  That's all I've ever wanted.

    Also, I would enforce a one-year moratorium on FO complaints if we attained Carlos Quentin.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 11:31 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    The popular rumor on Rauch is that Bowden asked the Tigers for Cameron Maybin in exchange. If that's his asking price, I say no way in hell. Bowden's definitely not under much pressure to trade either Rauch or Cordero, since both of them are under his control for at least next year (and I think he has Rauch for another year after that, even), so I don't know that we'd get either one without giving up too much in return.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 11:33 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    That's is incredible. If he really did ask for Maybin, as the Tigers GM I would make it my duty to never deal with that GM again. An offeer like that is basically a slap in the face.

    by Joe. on Jul 31, 2007 11:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Even Washington fans were "WTF" when they heard Bowden asked for Maybin.  Not that they'd reject it, but let's be realistic.  I said it last night and I'll say it again, I'm guessing we get Rauch in a 3:45 deal.  I'd say Francisco and a single-A PTBNL would be fair, but then again I don't get paid to do this.
    Once again in 1st place in BOTH LGT Fantasy Leagues.

    by mjmarble on Jul 31, 2007 11:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    As a side note, I would love for Gagne to end up a Brewer because A) he wouldn't be with an AL contender and B) I like the Brewers and I'm not so much a fan of the Cubs.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 11:34 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Questionable Decision-Making
    Quetin for Lee, Mujica, and Cabrera. Wow would I faint if we pulled that off. Also, let it be known that I love both those relieevrs. I just love Quentin more.

    by Joe. on Jul 31, 2007 11:41 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Really, either Jonny Gomes or Carlos Quentin would be, in my opinion, a HUGE upgrade for our corner outfield production.  Related question, would Quentin step in to the Left-Handed Rightfielder Role or would he be a full-time starter and, if so, what position?
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 11:44 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Off the top of my head, isn't Gomes BRUTAL on defense?  I thought he profiles as a DH.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 11:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yeah, Gomes would be a defensive downgrade.  I had forgotten about that factor.   FYI, his FRAA for the past three years, two in Durham was -6, -3 and -1 respectively.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 11:53 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    After I PECOTA'd Gomes, I looked and Quentin is about a 4-6 FRAA rightfielder.  So, if we got Quentin, I guess Nixon would be done and Guttierez is blocked in even further....until we trade Michaels in the offseason.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    My assumption is that if Quentin is acquired, he takes Gutz's spot unless Nixon finally gets the axe. Everyone else in the OF mix is here to stay (unless they get dealt too that is).

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I'm going to assume that people who like Quentin like him for his defense.  He seems pretty ordinary offensively.  Would he really be that big of an upgrade over what we have this season (Lofton, JMike, Gutz) or would it be a trade for the future?  

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 12:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Sort of for the future, but he's a major leaguer now.  His career minor league numbers are .313/.430/.528.  A minor-league .430 OBP is cool.  Were that to translate it is absolutely an upgrade.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    See my above post about the Quentin "rumors" -- I say there's no way it happens, seriously.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    True, but this would be more Shap's style anyways, a lesser known name he deals for. I don't think it happens either, but if it did, I wouldn't be surprised (like I was with Barfield).

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 12:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I fail to understand why a guy that hits .209 is a huge upgrade for our outfield. Am I missing something? I know he's been rumored to have huge potential, but....
    God truly does hate cleveland sports.

    by Gradysmanldy on Jul 31, 2007 11:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    That's only 200 at bats. His minor league numbers tell a crazy different story:

    http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/Q/carlos-quentin.shtml

    He's not a guy with a lot of potential, in my opinion. He's there, he's just in a slump. He's too old and too accomplished in the minors to not be able to hit at least league average right now, and he's likely to hit a lot better.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 12:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Look at those OBPs.

    This isn't a trade Shaprio is looking to make, but if, say, he was already on the phone with Arizona and they mentioned Quentin was available, I imagine Shapiro and Antonetti drooling and seeing what they could work out.  It's not a deal they would pass up.  As of right now however I think the only real priority is an arm.

    Bill James saw him as a 25-HR guy.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Don't forget that Arizona's minor league teams play in some RIDICULOUS hitters parks. Tucson inflates batting stats by almost 10%, so take some of those minor league accomplishments with a grain of salt.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    His OBP is mainly lofted by BBs + HBPs, both of which have nothing to do with the park.  I'm telling you, this guy is a non-out-maker.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Good points by everyone on this.  This would not be a move to help in 2007, but it wouldn't hurt us either.

    I think the Indians trade Lee straight up for Quentin purely because of contract status -- sure, what the hell?  But he's unlikely (at 25) to blossom into an impact player.  He's just got a little more of a projectable bat than Francisco.

    You have to wonder if acquiring someone like this makes it easier to part with Gutierrez, given that some other team will value him as a CF -- Coco with an arm.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Interesting, hadn't thought that far in advance. But yes, dealing for Quentin does allow us to deal Gutz to a team that needs a CF.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 12:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    So how would you feel if the Indians dealt Lee for Quentin, and then Gutierrez for Dotel?

    Is that not basically Lee for Dotel?

    And what would anyone think of that?

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 1:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    How long is Dotel under contract again?  Isn't it just this year with a mutual option for '08?  While Lee's pretty cheap for the next 3 years right?

    Man I wish I knew how bad Lee's head problems are.

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Sounds fine to me. I have no problem throwing Laffet/Smith/Sowers/Stanford as the 5 the rest of the year.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Hmmm. My longer post just got eaten I think.

    My point was that if this was just on paper, I do it right away. I think Quentin basically is Gutz, with more projectable skills (plate discipline). I think Lee is done, his periphs are just bad.

    However, it's hard to keep Gutz in context after you see him play. Sexy talent. You're afraid he's going to make you look stupid.

    Whatever. Do it. He'd be on the Royals. How painful can it be?

    Plus, everyone touting this age thing:

    Gutz: 2/21/83
    Quentin: 8/28/82

    6 months. Meh.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    has the Dotel to Atlanta deal completely fallen through?

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    That's ugly. FGutz is too much to give up for Dotel. I'd offer 'Cisco and junk for Dotel, but that's about it. Either way, I think Dotel is pretty much a lock to go to Atlanta.

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Can't we keep them both?  I like the thought of Gutz, Sizemore, Quentin.  We wouldn't give up any hits to the outfield.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 2:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    That'd be sweet for 2008.  I don't follow the Quentin imperative for this season, though.

    Also! I'm Gutz' fanboy #1.

    by homelytourist on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    It's not about acquiring Quentin for this season, it's about being opportunistic with a team desperate for a starter right now.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Re: this idea, Cliff Lee is a lock to make it through waivers again past the deadline today but there's no way Quentin makes it through.  So if nothing gets done today it moves to the offseason, correct?
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 2:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Don't know much about Quentin, but seems to me it may just be more productive to keep Gutz rather than trade for Quentin and then trade Gutz. At 25, does Quentin project to be that much better  than Gutz? Higher walk rights, but can he hit for any power and is he defense better/equal to Gutz'? Honest questions here.

    Just seems like acquiring Quentin would be an unnecessary and circuitous way to get insurance for a Gutz trade -- do other teams value Gutz that highly?

    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 1:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    "do other teams value Gutz that highly?"

    Yes, he can play CF. That drives up his value.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    So in essence, doing a deal for Quentin would mean giving up much less than we could get for Gutz. In other words, an overall gain while still retaining a decent bat/defending in OF (since we don't need a CF anyway). Is that the rationale?
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I agree with this, I don't think the Tribe gains much (if anything) by trading for Quentin and trading away Gutz at the same time.

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 1:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    How Is Gutz projected to hit in the Major leagues and how does it compare to Quinton?

    Which is more likely to pan out?

    by world dictator on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Not interested in acquiring Quentin to get rid of Gutz. He actually has a higher ceiling than Quentin with better defensive tools, and is finally breaking out, so I wouldn't trade Gutz until I got a better handle on what he's going to turn out to be.

    If we're so anxious to trade Cliff Lee then throw him in the mix for a reliever now, so that it will help...yes, now.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Quentin, but he is now officially a continuing injury risk. I read somewhere that he still has to have shoulder surgery this offseason.

    by mcrose on Jul 31, 2007 1:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I've been backing Gutierrez for two years here, but you have to be realistic about his talent and upside -- and remember, it isn't just our prospects who have upside, other teams' do as well.  Quentin was the D-Backs' #1 prospect two years in a row, and they have a very good system.  While you're waiting to find out what Gutierrez turns out to be, what is Quentin turning out to be?

    I think these two are a wash.  Quentin is a better bat -- and a safer bet to eventually be a good hitter -- but Gutierrez has the better glove.  Quentin is the better fit for the Indians, but Gutierrez in some ways is the safer trade chip for later.  If his bat doesn't come out so good, someone is still going to want him to play CF.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 1:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yeah but Gutz seems to be consolidating all the adjustments he was asked to make over the last year and a half, and getting back some of the power he sacrificed for a more balanced approach. I just think he has more potential and would rather see how it plays out rather than trading him at the point where he could be putting it all together.

    And if Lee's the price, again, I'd want to spend him for an immediate reward towards a playoff run.

    by mcrose on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Can't agree.  I think the first team that's willing to give up something of significant value for Lee, you do it and put the whole thing behind you.  If Lee-for-Quentin really is on the table, we don't know if the Indians will ever get another offer like that.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Well, if Lee can help you get a good reliever, that's something. We're talking a small time frame when all the options are on the table.

    In any case, its not acquiring Quentin I have the problem with. Like I said, I like him and he was one of the corner OF's I would have loved to acquire last winter (not that he was available, but he fit the bill). It's the turning around and trading Gutz at this point that I'd object to.

    by mcrose on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re:
    You would think that having Ben Fran and FCab on the table as the starting point in a trade for any reliever that would definitely help out this year would be both worth it for us and attractive to somebody. You would think.

    by mcrose on Jul 31, 2007 12:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    Here's what I think goes down with the Quentin deal.  It gets out that he's available.  Arizona is swamped with 100 phone calls/texts in the span of 20 minutes.  They see through the non-chalant probing of other GMs and drive up the price for an apparently valued commodity.  Several teams--including the Indians--back off because they can no longer "steal" him.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    Even if they can't "steal" him, paying fair market price for a talent like his might be a good move.  I mean, I'm shocked he's available.  If he can be had for starting pitching plus prospects I say you do it.  He could be a major piece for the next 4-5 years; he's in roughly the same contract situation as the rest of our core, I believe.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    I watched him play here in Tucson and at Chase Field.  Good D with a very good arm.  Hits in Tucson like he owned it.  400+ in his last stint.  Hasn't hit Jack in the majors.  Small sample, but would I replace Gutz with him?  No Way.

    by Cactus Jack on Jul 31, 2007 12:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    I just took a look at the Cleveland.com forums for the first time ever to see if there were any rumor updates.  What a clusterf*** that place is.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    "The Cleveland Indians, who just Friday acquired Kenny Lofton from the Rangers, have shown some interest in Quentin."

    Link

    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 12:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Jayson Stark's insider page is free for the day. ESPN finally does something right.

    He says Dotel is done but held up until the Teixera deal is completed-everyone must complete physicals. Also, he says Dayton might be taking a lower offer because he's familiar with Davies and believes he knows something the stats don't show.

    Says Pirates price on Marte is high b/c he took a lower dollar deal. Implies Pittsburgh will again not trade anyone.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 12:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Price is also high on Marté because Dave Littlefield is an ignoramus.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 12:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Also! The Yankees have traded Scott Proctor for Wilson Betemit.

    I don't know what to think of that.

    Link

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 12:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    I laughed. Dodgers (slightly) upgrade their bullpen and the Yankees (slightly) downgrade their hurting bullpen and get 10 homeruns in return.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    what i hate about this deal, is that it is now unlikely Hatteburg gets dealt to the Yanks. I really want Votto to be called up for the Reds.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    I must be the only guy on the planet that likes Scott Proctor.  I think the boy can pitch.

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Joe Torre loves him, he's on pace to pitch about a zillion innings this year.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 1:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Well if this leads to them calling up their Native American, their bullpen just got incredibly better.

    by Joe. on Jul 31, 2007 2:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    This is how much work I'm not getting done today.

    I have separate tabs at the top of my screen opened to this site, Jayson Stark's insider, MLB Trade Rumors, Ken Rosenthal, and Cleveland.com (for whatever reason).  Every couple of minutes I refresh each one.

    4 PM can't come quickly enough.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 12:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    Haha... I hear that. Work is a sidebar today.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    is there a local website I can stream online that is worth listening to this afternoon?

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 12:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    LGT threads should really be live audio broadcasts. I'd love to listen to crazy banter and randomly thrown in trade rumors all day.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Hey, zempf, are you ready for the Chuck & Jay show, 24/7 on the radio?  Or was three hours of it about all you could stand?

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Hey I'm back in Maui not on the road.  I haven't got as much time to blog as usual.  My wife's got a list of stuff a mile long - and I still wanna get to the beach

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Suck it up. It's the trade deadline. The f-ing beach will be there after 4pm.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Hm.. I'm not sure about that. Do you promise to keep arguing about who's the best third baseman of all time?

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 1:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and
    This is more fun than watching an actual game. And certainly more fun than the work I am supposed to be doing.

    by BoDiaz1974 on Jul 31, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle
    Doesn't mlb.com have a streaming ratio station?
    Pronk Needs You

    by woodsmeister on Jul 31, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    So assuming Dotel is gone, who becomes the #1 target? Is Benoit available or not?

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 1:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Ugh. I hope not. I've said this before, but I don't want to hedge injury concern (Borowski) with more injury concern.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    But wasn't that what the Foulke/Borowski signings was all about?  

    I'd pick Percival up if the price was right.

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    If they're only asking for a mid-level prospect (see Stark's market, why not take a chance. It won't cost Gutz, Fraancisco, etc. If all it cost us was Goleski, I say go for it.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    My immediate reaction:

    I would trade Goleski for nearly anything. I couldn't be more positive he's not a contributor.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Wasn't Goleski the one picked up by the A's in the Rule 5 draft (& then quickly dropped when he hit like crap in ST)? I can't imagine his value's all that high right now given that any team basically could've had him for free a couple of times (in the Rule 5 draft & then on waivers when the A's gave him back to the Indians).

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 1:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yes, that was him. Sorry, but I didn't mean him specifically. The "market value" was a mid-level prospect. His name was the first that came to mind (I think he's low level now, not mid-level). But maybe a guy like Barton (had he not gotten hurt), etc.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 1:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Percival? With what we've done to him in the past I'd love to have him on Detroit.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 1:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    Well if the Indians aren't gonna do anything I'm going to the beach.

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    Isn't it like 6 am there? Can't you at least wait until the sun comes up?

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    0737.  Plus I gotta go see my psycholgist about my "winning is everything" delusional complex.

    by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2007 1:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    I watched an episod of "My House is Worth What?!?" with a property in Hawaii the other day.

    Real Estate Agent from Hawaii on show quote: "We're selling lifestyle here. This house is nice, but it's the lifestyle."

    Going to the beach at 7:37 is lifestyle.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    actually, i have it from a credible source (novelty t-shirt) that it's the only thing.

    by jeremy on Jul 31, 2007 2:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and ...
    Your delusion is that "wins credited to a starting pitcher" are the same as "wins for the team" and "a starting pitcher's contribution to winning."

    Don't try to turn this on me rhetorically.  The ridiculous convention of calling the stat "wins" makes it a challenge for me, but you still have no shot here.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I swear the biggest upgrade we could make today would be to DFA trot.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I'm going to go ahead and put more emphasis on Trotter's 1/2 season of crap (668 OPS) than his 34 ABs of 891 OPS.

    Plus, he can't play the field AT ALL.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Idle Speculation
    anyone else have a gut feeling we do nothing until after the deadline?

    by Brick. on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Idle Speculation
    Anyone else fine with that?
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Idle Speculation
    I would be a little worried if we didn't get anyone.

    I'm really concerned with the Raffys getting overworked as this team makes its playoff push and tries to send out its best pitchers more often (the whole every game is important mentality).  

    I think an extra, reliable reliever is essential, if only for insurance purposes.  

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Idle Speculation
    I know that in my heart of hearts every year but I still get really excited. Deadline deals never happen though.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Idle Speculation
    I'm still holding out hope. Shap was way too confident that he was going to get BP help. Besides, the trading deadline is like Christmas. Nobody wants to wait until New Years to get your gifts from the other side of the family. You want your gifts now, even if they aren't exactly what you asked for.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Idle Speculation
    E5 doesn't think you've pushed the Xmas/New Years analogy enough.

    What about Jewish fans?  ; )

    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Rosenthal reporting Red Sox on the verge of landing Gagne, who might split closing with Papelbon.

    Split? WTF?

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Meh? That seems kind of like a waste unless they're going to alternate one pitching the 8th/one pitching the 9th. Otherwise if you just cut both of their innings in half it makes absolutely no sense.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Am out for lunch, be back in an hour for the final push.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Saw Josh Papelbon pitch yesterday against the Cap's. Is he supposed to be a prospect, or not really? He has like a 5.40 ERA.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Shapiro is coming on Baseball Tonight on ESPN any minute.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Seriously, or are you just expressing a gut feeling/hope?
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Sorry, wasn't sure you were declaring that he was going to be on. Thought it was something along the lines of "I have a feeling Shap's going to be on BBTN announcing a deal shortly."
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    shapiro going to be on bbtn trade deadline special shortly if anyone cares. (i don't, really.)
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Does this mean he's making a deal? Or saying we're out of the market? Or just saying nothing?

    How does he have time to do this if we're making a deal.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    if we're making a deal, this probably means it's mostly done. or we're... not making one.
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    He better have made a trade and be going on BBTN to throw his genius in everybody's face.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Would he make some kind of announcement?
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    that seems... not our usual style. this is very strange.
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Indeed. Lots of unusual behavior from Shap lately. Maybe SOMETHING HUGE is going down.

    /tries to convince self that nothing will happen

    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    We've discussed this, Shapiro is turning into a badass.  I'd like to see him on BBTN with a toothpick in his mouth, just announce some deadline deal, take his mic off and walk.  Nay, strut.

    I like Shapiro.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    man. i need to find shapiro pictures solely so i can go make badass shap livejournal icons. 'cause i'm a nerdface.
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    And throw his toothpick in Philips' eye, a la Scott Hall.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Gagne is going to Boston.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/07/31/gagne.redsox/index.html

    Kinda weird, why would the best bullpen in the league go after such a pricy (in prospects, I mean) set-up guy?  Maybe they'll prep Papelbon to start again?

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Sorry, they're still waiting on Gagne's personal approval.  Forgot to mention that.

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 2:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    They aren't waiting for his approval, exactly, they're negotiating with Boras to see how much it will take to buy out his trade veto.

    Interesting to see how this plays out, after Boston more or less won their stand-off with Boras in the Matsuzaka negotiations.  This time, Boras is the one who can afford to just walk away.

    On the other hand, if Boras holds up the deal, does that sour the relationship with his bitch, Tom Hicks?

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    i think by definition it's kind of hard to sour relations with your personal bitch. i mean, doesn't Hicks seem to like the abuse?

    by jeremy on Jul 31, 2007 2:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Good point.  Just picturing Boras striding into Hicks' lavish office, all pimped up and menacing, and muttering -- what else? -- "bitch better have my money."

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    ESPN is reporting Gabbard and the other AAA CF (Murphy I think?). That seems like a pretty healthy chunk to me.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    ah, indeed. I heard Murphy and some lower level guys, didn't know Gabbard was part of it.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Nobody seems to know. The Gabbard thing is just from Jonah Keri's chat.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Rosenthal reporting Gabbard plus a minor leaguer now. He had Murphy's name in there and took it out.

    by afh4 on Jul 31, 2007 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    GGabbard does look good. He remins me of a better Laffey, number wise anyway. It would be a decent haul but with how deep their rotation is, and with Masterson and Buchholz in the minors, Gabbard won't be a huge loss.

    by Joe. on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Kind of have to hand it to Daniels, he did a nice job as a seller.
    -Erik

    by drerikbrady on Jul 31, 2007 2:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    If Gagne holds up, they slide Pap into the rotation for the playoff run?

    Not a bad thought but kind of overkill.

    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Was just about to post this. Strange move by the BoSox. Seems Gagne's "closer only" mentality could really mess with the mojo they've got going.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    It's not really a "mentality" so much as his contract is structured such that he gets a lot more money for games finished. According to Cot's:
    $75,000 for 3 GF, $0.1M for 6 GF, $0.15M each for 10, 13 & 16 GF, $0.175M for 20, 23 & 26 GF, $0.2M each for 30, 33 & 36 GF, $0.25M each for 40, 43 & 46 GF, $0.5M each for 50, 53 & 56 GF, $0.333M each for 60 & 63 GF, $0.334M for 66 GF

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Oh, OK. Well, there's never been a problem the Red Sox have been afraid to throw money at.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I actually hate them much more, because they still act like they're some scrappy underdogs. And their fans are ridiculous. You won your World Series, now crawl back in your hole for another 85 years.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I couldn't agree more. BoSox fans ARE the Yankees, they're just not as good at it.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Totally. They point at the Yankees & bitch about them spending $190m while themselves spending something like $140m. Bleh.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    The Red Sox have been the new Yankees for awhile now.  Getting a Red Sox fan to acknowledge that is one of the only good things afforded by the non-stop NYY/BOS coverage right now.

    by APV on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    What kills me is that he made something like $18 million the past two years while NOT pitching for the Dodgers. What could a few hundred grand in incentives really mean to the guy? I don't think whether he closes or not the last 2 months of the season is going to really change the amount of money GMs throw at him in the offseason.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Unfortunately, it wasn't a few hundred grand, it was more like $3.5M in incentives for closing games. Stupid Boras deal.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 3:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Why not make the bullpen even better -- and keep Gagne away from other teams in the process?

    With a fairly torn-up rotation, it's not a bad idea for them to try to shorten the game to five or six innings.

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I wish our rotation was torn up like theirs. Oh do I wish.

    by Joe. on Jul 31, 2007 2:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    The Mets have reportedly offered Philip Humber to the Nationals for Chad Cordero, and the Diamondbacks are also in the hunt, according to SI.com's Jon Heyman.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 2:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    Harold Reynolds interviewing Buck Showalter about Indians now.  Says sometimes the best moves are the moves that you don't make (see who's coming off injury list).

    Dubious about taking pitchers from NL.

    by palcal on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    I'm kind of sad. I want us to make a move. I like shiny new things.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    We really need a BP arm.

    And no, that's not batting practice. We have plenty of those to go around it seems.(Mastny, FCab)

    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    FCab can't throw BP. BP means throw strikes.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors,
    He apparently throws enough to get tattooed all over the park every time I've seen him pitch.
    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    even the national media confuses borowski and wickman sometimes. pats bbtn
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yeah, that was pretty funny.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Shapiro doesn't sound very optimistic something gets done.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 2:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Shap sounds a lot different about how likely a trade's going to be for a BP arm today than he did during the game a few days ago. :\
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    It will be funny if the only thing the Tigers get out of this trading deadline is Jack Wilson.
    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Hey man, that Neifi Perez pickup last year is what really propelled them to the World Series. The way Wilson hits, he's basically Neifi redux.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    He must be using some kind of banned substance too.

    by Jackdaw on Jul 31, 2007 2:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    He hit .172/.221/.266... oh yeah, for Nefi Perez, this almost certainly indicated steroid us.

    by gte619n on Jul 31, 2007 2:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    You gotta try saying it with the accent on "Tom"

    jo-TOM-bo

    by Jay on Jul 31, 2007 2:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    It sort of sounds like rochambeau in my head, actually.
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    ... there isn't one? i just figured since we were arguing how to accent it, i'd chime in.
    Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

    by AngG on Jul 31, 2007 2:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I just wondered where this all started. I assumed there's no point.

    I've always favored JoeBlow, but he hasn't lived up to his name enough this year. (Thank God)

    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    According to Tim Brown at Yahoo the Braves are shopping Bob Wickman.  Too bad we already got rid of Ramirez, we could've traded him back to Atlanta for Wicky.

    by Jackdaw on Jul 31, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors
    Dotel to Braves for Davies, per Starks on BBTN
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    What was the Rob Bowen deal I just saw on the bottom line?

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    That might have been the old one that sent Kendall to the Cubs and Bowen to the A's.
    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Jeez, did he get traded again? 4 teams in one season can't be good for a guy.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    The latest is that the Teixeria deal is official and doesn't include Davies so he's free to go to Kansas City for Dotel.
    Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

    by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and
    I can't take this. ONE MORE HOUR. The suspense is killing me.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and
    If you're waiting on us to make a trade, don't hold your breath. At most, we're getting a second tier reliever.

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and
    Hey, it's still something.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and
    And the only things we really need.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Not to get OT here, but as a way of making idle convo: does anyone here play video games at all?
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    yes. If you have a 360 I recommend MLB The BIGS. Very fun arcade-style baseball game.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 2:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Ha ha, check out my below post. Do you own the BIGS? Whats your gamertag? We should play sometime.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    ohkeepa5. Though I think my brother has the game at his house now, I'll try and get it back in the next day or so.

    I love that you can use edited rosters online. With me being a stickler for updated rosters, I was playing my friend one night and I had Kenny Lofton AND Octavio Dotel on my roster. May have jumped the gun on that second move there.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Just asking since I recently rented "THE BIGS." Really cool arcade-style baseball game.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Yes.

    And to stay on topic, I don't think a deal is going to get done for a reliever.

    Texas is tied up, Dotel is gone, and I haven't seen a blurb on Percival all day.  I think something would have been announced by now.  I also hope I'm wrong in an hour or so...

    by Pronk33 on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Since you mention it, I've been playing NHL94 for Sega Genesis (emulated of course, but I still own the actual copy and actual Genesis) for the last hour or so. You can play online with the emulator called GENS. I'm open to all challengers... Jets, Nordiques, North Stars, Whalers... man, I miss old time (80s that is) hockey.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    the pinnacle of the sport.

    Fact: I own a Winnipeg Jets hooded sweatshirt.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Heck yes, I have an old Jets ringer t-shirt. It's glorious.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Been a fan of the Coyotes since the move ... thanks!

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I live outside Philly so I'm a pretty die-hard Flyers fan, but I love the Jets, Nordiques and the Whale. In fact it sickens me to watch a Coyotes vs Panthers game and see 8 people in attendance.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I always heavily lean toward the old NHL Retro teams... I really don't have a favorite NHL team of all-time, I'm big on the Leafs, Pens, and Sabres- but mainly because those are because of locality and some of my favorite players play/played for them. But, like I said, I'm a stickler for the retro crowd, so I'm a huge Jets/North Stars/Whalers/Nordiques fan. Something about relocation I guess. It's time to move the teams back if you ask me.
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I agree with everything you said. Except about rooting for Pens/Sabres/Leafs. F them.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Coming from a Flyers fan, I expect no less. :p
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    No chance you beat a Canadian at NHL 94 for Genesis. That game was/is my life. Can't stop the Roenick wraparound.

    by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2007 3:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Haha... the JR wraparound is no match to the Al Iafrate slapshot or the Adam Oates/Alexander Mogilny wraparound!
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Also!
    I mentioned online play before via GENS, and here's a great website for all things NHL94 for either Genesis or SNES: http://www.nhl94.com
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I play FIFA 07 on my 360 almost every night. The best video game of all time.
    Cleveland: It's like punching yourself in the face.

    by fwembt on Jul 31, 2007 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    FIFA 08 looks promising as well. Have you played Champions League? I hated the actual 'career' mode in that game, but I thought the actual gameplay was better than 07. Both made by EA.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I am saving my money for '08. I didn't think CL added enough to the game to make it worth full price. Pretty much all I play is the franchise mode anyway.
    Cleveland: It's like punching yourself in the face.

    by fwembt on Jul 31, 2007 3:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    It'd be cool if EA didn't make the achievements so impossible in their FIFA games.

    by ASP on Jul 31, 2007 3:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    I'm a huge fan of any 2K sports games.  MLB 2K7 made me smash a PS3 controller the other night.  Bottom of the ninth, 2 out, down 9-8, Ryan Howard at bat, tying run at 2nd...liner to left field...throw home...caught in a run down...my runner (Barfield I believe) makes it back to third on the rundown but inexplicably steps back off of the plate directly into a tag after being called safe...game over.  Smashed controller into many pieces.  I am now $53 poorer.

    BTW...Barfield becomes the best 2B in the league by 2010 in franchise mode.  34 HR and 140 RBI in the last season I played.

    by dapoole13 on Jul 31, 2007 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Off Topic, but who do I pick up to replace him an my AL-only league?

    Warning, it's a deep league and there isn't much to go around on the waiver wire.

    Scott Podsednik
    Jay Gibbons
    Joey Gathright (AAA, but could be called up if Royals move either E.Brown or Sanders)
    Jason Tyner
    Josh Wilson (TB)
    Ben Zobrist

    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 3:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    If he's available, that sounds like a no brainer.

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 3:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I'd get Salty, he should have both C and 1B eligibility if it matters.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Unless you're in the top 1 or 2 spots, you won't - or shouldn't, get Salty. Depends on how geeky your league is I guess.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    I'm #3, but I'm confident that one of the top two won't use his pick because he's probably not paying attention anymore.
    Turf Toe -- Sports skewered weakly (and weekly.)

    by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2007 3:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    So how exactly do trade negotiations work?

    Shap: Hey Brian, I'll give you Francisco and Miller for A-Rod.

    Ca$hman: No.

    I mean, how formal/informal are the conversations between GMs?

    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Billy Beane did pretty much this in Moneyball.  Although he'd pitch it like a used car salesman.

    by nickjs21 on Jul 31, 2007 3:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    "That's right, you could be driving home with this classic Piazza....TODAY!"

    by Jackdaw on Jul 31, 2007 3:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    Anytime I hear of anything related to used car salesmen pitches, I generally laugh my ass off because I recall this great spoof (NSFW I guess, well, it's a lot of swearing and yelling)
    "We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

    by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 31, 2007 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Pads (my World Series pick) are building a nice bench.

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Apparently they picked up Ensberg, too, which should help them out a lot given that Kouz has been not so awesome.

    by zempf on Jul 31, 2007 3:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yeah, that's who I meant. I have a hard time believing he "just lost it" or whatever...at worst, he seems like an above average bench player at 1B and 3B.

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    This makes me happy am at work - don't have to listen to those buffoons.

    The way Phillips talks, I just can't imagine him being on the phone with 5+ GMs trying to finish off a deadline deal. He'd never be able to keep the names (players or GMs) straight.

    by talonk on Jul 31, 2007 3:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    They're all bad today, even Ravech and PG. Kruk just bitched at Towers for not picking up a big bat...first, there are no big bats available, and second, they at least did something! Why not get on the Dodgers or the D'Backs if you want to rip on an NL West team?

    by Kos on Jul 31, 2007 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation and Questiona
    Yeah, I lol'd at Kruk complaining that the Pads didn't get a 30hr/100rbi guy.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

    Re: Vicious Rumors, Idle Speculation
    1/2 hour left... I'm getting less confident a deal will get done. Damn it, now I have to find a way to get over the post-trade deadline blues.
    Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

    by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs