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Cabrera DFA

After the game, Cabrera was notified that he was designated for assignment.

The link has the following quotes from Cabrera:

A frustrated Cabrera said he hopes to get another chance in the big leagues.

"I trust in myself and what I can do in this game," he said. "Nobody's going to take that from my mind."

"We'll see what happens," Cabrera said. "There are 29 other teams, and everybody's looking for pitching."

He seems to think he had only one bad outing, July 16.

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Re: Cabrera DFA
I could see teams like the Rangers, Cubs, Orioles, Cinny or Tampa Bay taking a flier on him.  Good luck F. Cab, change your delivery and you can dominate if not it was a decent career.
Champion of the Kelly Shoppach for Catcher and Franklin GutiƩrrez for Right Fielder campaigns. LGT resident kineisologist

by E5 on Aug 1, 2007 12:42 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
/remains mournful.
Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on Aug 1, 2007 12:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Kinda feel bad for the guy. I hope he gets it together and does well elsewhere.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Aug 1, 2007 1:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
But not as well as a certain failed project starting in Baltimore or playing infield in Cincinnati.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Aug 1, 2007 1:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
At least Guthrie can still be helpful to the Indians this year.

by palcal on Aug 1, 2007 2:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Sad but not totally unexpected. Shame, always had high hopes for him in the Tribe bullpen.

by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 1, 2007 4:31 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Remember how promising he looked when he came up? Whoa.

I guess in the bigs you never know.

by ploni on Aug 1, 2007 10:45 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
What's the status on the 25 man as of now?  Lots of changes lately and I haven't been able to keep up owing to my workload lately.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Aug 1, 2007 7:03 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Lessee here... KLove comes in, Francisco sent down. Lee sent down, Mujica comes up.

Gotta nagging feeling that I'm missing something, but I think that's it, isn't it?

by ManchildinBeantown on Aug 1, 2007 1:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
OR... I coulda just pointed you to Ryan's post on the front page.

Oops.

by ManchildinBeantown on Aug 1, 2007 1:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I'm a little sad that this happened.  I know Cabrera couldn't get anybody out at the major league level, but he has the stuff to be dominant.  Hopefully he goes to the NL and has some success over there.

by Fundamentals on Aug 1, 2007 7:56 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
This is one of those guys that you know 5 years down the road people will be shouting from the rooftops "I told you he was going to be good!"

We all have this feeling...it's just not the right time and place for him right now.

by supermarioelia on Aug 1, 2007 8:21 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I really wish this hadn't happened.  This isn't some kind of Jason Davis situation--remember it was only a couple months ago that we nicknamed him "K-Brera" and he looked absolutely dominant; I find it hard to believe that his switch has suddenly and permanently been flipped to "teh suck".  

I hope he somehow sneaks through without being claimed, because I think he is going to be back to dominating sooner rather than later.

by Jackdaw on Aug 1, 2007 10:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I just read the last line of the diary, that he felt he only had one bad outing.

We've been questioning what's between his ears all season, and I think that in itself may prove that he clearly did not have the bullpen mentality that we would've needed in the playoffs. He probably figured allowing 1 run/inning was a success.

This is actually quite amusing, because I can definitely see Willis and Wedge commending Cabrera after an outing for an improvement in his stuff (even if he allowed a run or two) because they were so desperate to see any signs of life, and he took that as being an indication that it was a genuinely succesful outing.

by supermarioelia on Aug 1, 2007 8:26 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's disappointing in the sense that many
thought he'd become the Indians' future closer, and now, he's not even consistent enough to be a front-end guy for that bullpen.

I too wonder about his comment regarding just one bad outing; maybe it was from Willis and Wedge encouraging him after he showed "some" improvement, even though you'd think Cabrera would remember those days from 2005 when he allowed few runs, and didn't give up many hits or walks - that body of work is what he should have considered to be good - anything less than that is really not good, especially for a front-end reliever trying to keep his team in the game when the starter has been knocked out early or a back-end reliever trying to shut down the opposition before giving the game to your closer.

It will be interesting to see if he can have success elsewhere or if his mechanics and/or his mental approach will prevent him from having any consistent success anywhere.  And, of course, perhaps he could still wind up in Buffalo.  We'll see.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Aug 1, 2007 8:41 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he started the season strong. Then, that fateful game when Westbrook went down, Wedge pulled a WTF and brought Cabrera in during the second(?) inning and pitched him for 2 or 3 innings. It seems his decline (this year) started then.

Maybe he clears waivers. I would think Shapiro has been trying to trade him. So maybe there won't be a lot of interest from other teams putting a work in progress on their 25 man roster.

by zigsmom on Aug 1, 2007 8:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Should we be questioning the use of his options?

by tribemountain on Aug 1, 2007 8:50 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I wouldn't go there.  Do you remeber the bullpen of 2004?

by JK in CBus on Aug 1, 2007 9:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I'm missing your point.  Can you elaborate?

by tribemountain on Aug 1, 2007 9:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I've looked at that over and over, and there's not much room for criticism.  He was signed in August 1999, at age 17, so his Rule 5 protection ran out at the end of the 2002 season.

He was a starter that season, even though they already knew he'd eventually move the bullpen.  He moved up to Akron late that season, and while his ERA was mediocre, he struck out 136 in 137 innings.  Based on the K rate and his pure stuff, he would have been considered one of the top targets in the Rule 5.

That is the reason he was out of options after 2005.  But they obviously would have had to add him after 2003, when he struck out 9.5 K/9 -- still mostly as a starter -- in Double-A at age 21.  So any way they handled it, he would have been out of options before 2007.

So the only second-guess you can make is not rolling the dice on the Rule 5 in 2002.  That would have given them the ability to send Cabrera down to Buffalo for most of 2006, and there is a possibility that would have helped him.  Fact is, though, Cabrera got into 51 games in Cleveland last season, and four games in Buffalo on a dubious "rehab assignment."  The noncontending situation meant that the Indians weren't afraid to try to straighten him out in major league games, so maybe the option thing becomes a wash at that point.

Every out-of-options case reminds us that the new CBA gives teams an extra year with these guys, but there's always a chance you run out of time anyway.  You can always end up with a player who is just barely good enough to be a Rule 5 risk, one year earlier than you'd have liked, and then just barely good enough to be in the majors, but not yet truly ready, and out of options.

You can also note that this is an inherent problem with signing players under 18.  Cabrera had to be placed on the 40-man just days after his 21st birthday -- it would be his 22nd under the new CBA -- and many players are just not close to being major league contributors by that point, though they may be eventually.  There isn't anything that can be done about that, because you're not going to pass up a high-ceiling player -- i.e., one who can throw in the high 90's -- just because you might eventually lose him on the waiver wire.

by Jay on Aug 1, 2007 9:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
So, to backtrack a bit, options are tied to number of years in the organization?  In MiLB/MLB?  On the 40 man?  How is it that a much older Lee had an option left and Cabrera did not?

If anyone knows of a good resource for this stuff, please pass it on.

by tribemountain on Aug 1, 2007 10:20 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
The Indians didn't have to send Lee to the minors because he was good enough to stick in the rotation. He was also a college pitcher, so he was more advanced when the Expos drafted him. Most college draftees are 24-26 by the time they get added to the 40-man roster, so by the time they run out of options, you pretty much known what you have.

by Ryan on Aug 1, 2007 10:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
An "option" is short for "optional assignment."  It refers to a player on a major league contract -- that is, on the 40-man roster -- who is optionally assigned to a minor league club.

A player on a minor league deal must be placed on the 40-man roster (given a major league contract) within 4-5 years of his signing, or else another team can select him in the Rule 5 draft.  Until last year, it was only 3-4 years.

A player can only be optionally assigned in three different seasons -- "out of options" means that the player has already been sent to the minors in three prior seasons, since being added to the 40-man roster.

For prospects signed out of high school like Cabrera, this generally means that the option years are spent somewhat hurriedly getting the player ready for the majors by the end of his 6th year as a pro.  This comes up much less often for college signees, who are often drafted at 21 and may not run out of options until they're 27 or 28.

Cliff Lee was signed in 2000 and added to the 40-man roster in 2002, when he was called up in September.  He was not sent back down in 2002, however, so no option was used.  He actually has two options remaining, because 2003 was the only season in which he was optionally assigned.

by Jay on Aug 1, 2007 11:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Thanks for this run down, Jay; it's very helpful.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Aug 1, 2007 12:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Daggummit.  By the suggestion of mtns question I just assumed that he wasn't already on the 40.  And since his first appearance was '04, I was recollecting wrong that his last option year was last year.  

by JK in CBus on Aug 1, 2007 10:24 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
We were pretty panicky about his option status early last season as well, when he first struggled coming out of the WBC.  But when the whole season tanked, Cabrera's lack of an option became a non-issue.

by Jay on Aug 1, 2007 11:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I could care less about what happens to Cabrera at this point.  

Can anyone tell me why Matt Miller continues to languish in Buffalo?  His ERA is 2.10 right now after he struck out all batters he faced in an inning last night (Lara allowed an inherited runner to score).  

What the hell are we waiting for?  Is he in Wedge's doghouse because he didn't want to go to Buffalo in the first place?  Is there some sort of roster machination I'm not seeing?  I can't figure it out.  

by cheech99 on Aug 1, 2007 9:46 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I'm guessing we're just waiting for roster space at this point. I think within the next week we'll see Laffey called up to take Lee's start & then Mujica will get sent down in favor of Miller, but the DFA process takes 10 days (if he's not claimed, which I'm sure will happen), so give it a bit of time I'd say.

by zempf on Aug 1, 2007 9:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I too have no idea how this Miller thing will play out. Fultz will likely get Cabrera's spot right now, and Laffey will take Mujica's spot. And Matt Miller is still left in Buffalo. I've been thinking about this for a few days now, and the best I can come up with is that with Miller's injury history, they want him getting steady work in Buffalo to build back his arm strength, in contrast to the spot duty he would likely see with the big club.

But there's no way I envision him not being a key piece of our bullpen in late August and September.

by supermarioelia on Aug 1, 2007 9:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
In today's PD, Wedge said, a bit cryptically:  "He's had his good days and bad days."

by Jay on Aug 1, 2007 9:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Exactly.  What the hell is that supposed to mean?  Does that mean everyone but Betancourt on the parent team has their good days and bad days?  

by cheech99 on Aug 1, 2007 10:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I'm only 22 and all that, but Ferd when he was on had somewhere in the top 5-10 best "stuff" I've ever seen. Just ghastly sick.

It's always sad to see talent unharnessed and failing.

by afh4 on Aug 1, 2007 11:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Totally not a shock at this point of the season. It was getting too difficult to play with one less roster spot.

My best guess is that Shapiro was trying to trade him at the deadline, couldn't find what he exactly liked, and now that the deadline has passed, he'll use the DFA process to try and finish off whichever deal(s) he was previously working on.

I wish him well, but preferably in the NL as a setup man (once he gets his head straightened out, if that's possible, that is). I don't want him coming back and throwing in late innings against us if he figures it out.

by talonk on Aug 1, 2007 11:44 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
My favorite Indian. Sad to see the guy go.

by Joe. on Aug 1, 2007 1:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Yeah. me too.

I figured FC + Andrew Brown would dominate by now... oh well.

by homelytourist on Aug 1, 2007 1:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Question: Kyle Farnsworth?

Worth trying to acquire from the NYY? His days there appear done. Now, I know he's a bit of a head case, but at least he has some fire.

Plus he can beat the snot out of people, if the need ever arose.

by gte619n on Aug 1, 2007 1:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
The big problem is that he's due a lot of money next year ($5.5m), which is not something you really feel like giving a headcase who probably won't be your closer.

by zempf on Aug 1, 2007 2:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
pr0FF3ss0r_F4rnsw0rth? Hilarious stuff.
"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Aug 1, 2007 2:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I LOVE The Dugout
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Aug 1, 2007 2:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I don't think any truly helpful relievers will be available in August.  Any that would make it through waivers to us would likely be no better than what we have in house (including Buffalo and Akron).

Time to throw'em all against a wall and see who sticks.

by ManchildinBeantown on Aug 1, 2007 2:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I'm looking forward to a similar discussion after the DFA of Marte next year. Good times.

by oxforddave on Aug 1, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Yikes
Being a GM is a lot like playing Solitaire - Branch Rickey (as told to E5)

by NickFantana on Aug 1, 2007 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Stupid Braves and their using up of option years. I wonder whether that plays into a prospect's value at all during trade negotiations.

by supermarioelia on Aug 1, 2007 2:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
What you should really be looking forward to is not the DFA, but Marte subsequently getting picked up by the Reds & then having Shapiro's head called for every time he gets a hit. Good times.

by zempf on Aug 1, 2007 3:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Or we could just look forward to Marte devloping into a useful third basemen.

See Jay's post, re: dog poop.

by nickjs21 on Aug 1, 2007 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
so, yesterday i was going to make a post asking if it was possible shapiro didn't make a non-waiver trade because any trade he made for a reliever needed to include ferd in the deal - whom would have to clear waivers anyway.  the only reason i didn't is that it didn't make sense for any other player included in the deal.

what are the waiver rules for guys in the minors with trades after the 31st?  the same?

by Brick. on Aug 1, 2007 6:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I was curious about that as well. My assumption is that any players on the 40 still have to clear waivers, but any guys not on the 40 don't. But I'll let Jay the master sort that out.

by talonk on Aug 1, 2007 7:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
He only has to clear waivers to be sent to the minors.

  • A player out of options can't be "optionally assigned" to the minors.
  • Therefore, he needs to be off the 40-man roster to go to the minors.
  • A player has to clear waivers in order to be removed ("outrighted") off the 40-man roster.

Cabrera did not need to clear waivers to be traded to another team, where he would stay on the major league roster.  And very often you'll see a guy get lost on waivers for one team, tank with another team, and then having tanked for two teams in a month, clear waivers and be sent to the second team's minor league system.  That's what happened with Jason Davis.

The deadline-waiver rules apply to anyone on the 40-man roster.  If Cabrera somehow makes it to Buffalo, he'll be off the 40-man, so he can be traded to anyone, anytime.

by Jay on Aug 2, 2007 11:20 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
I guess there is actually more to it.

In order to be traded without being sent to the minors, Cabrera now has to clear "Major League waivers," that is, revocable waivers.  But I think it is very likely that he would clear those, as no contending team is likely to want him.

If he were claimed on revocable waivers, the Indians would be free to work out a deal with that team, or to pull him back.  It seems likely to me that a deal would happen in that situation -- the Indians would be expecting a player back who isn't on the 40-man anyway, so that guy wouldn't have to clear any kind of waivers.

by Jay on Aug 2, 2007 11:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Just so I am reading this correctly ....

Prior to July 31, can trade Cabrera to anyone no waivers, nada (just like everyone else)

After July 31, he would go thrrough revocable waivrs to get dealt. If someone claimed him we could pull him back, but he'd still be on the 25 since he's out of options.

Since Shapiro DFAed him, he is going through irrevocable waivers. If we don't make a trade at end of 10 days, another team can claim him without giving anything up (this would also have occurred before July 31). My guess is irrevocable overrides revocable.

by talonk on Aug 2, 2007 11:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
If he's pulled back, he's still on the 40, but not on the 25.  That's what the DFA period is for.

I believe that typically, you don't put a player on outright waivers immediately when you DFA him, because you can't trade him once you do that.  You have ten days total, so you spend up to seven days exploring trades, and if you don't make one, then you put him on irrevocable waivers.

So the wrinkle after July 31 is that sometime during those first seven days, if you have any serious interest in trading him, you probably put the player on revocable waivers to see how that pans out.

by Jay on Aug 2, 2007 11:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
so, right now he's probably on revocable waivers.

if he clears we can trade him to anyone in the remainder of the 10 days or try and then place him on revocable wiavers to get him in the minors on the 40 man?

if he's claimed off the revocable we can trade him to that team or pull him back and........ now i'm lost agian.  i think i get it mostly.  thanks jay.

by Brick. on Aug 2, 2007 12:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
...10 days or try and then place him on *IR*revocable wiavers...

by Brick. on Aug 2, 2007 12:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
If he's on revocable first, then we try and trade him by the 7 days are up. If not then he goes on irrevocable. If he's claimed, he goes to other team's 25 man roster. If he isn't, he's sent to Buffalo and off of our 25 and 40 man roster.

by talonk on Aug 2, 2007 12:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
thanks.  i think i finally have it.

by Brick. on Aug 2, 2007 12:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Yes.  Or at least, you're misunderstanding it the same way the rest of us are.

by Jay on Aug 2, 2007 1:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
i need to see a diagram or something.  where's CandO with a photoshop explaining this thing?

by Brick. on Aug 2, 2007 1:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA

If you use Cabrera is '2A3,' it's all gravy.

"We've talked about it so many times," Wedge said, "but this is a special group."

by CarnegieAndOntario on Aug 2, 2007 1:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Ha, I love that, have to look at those all the time ...

by talonk on Aug 2, 2007 1:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
What - is that a vacuum tube diagram?  Man you must be almost as old as me!

by mauichuck on Aug 2, 2007 3:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
Kinda looks like a Dynaco 70.

by mauichuck on Aug 2, 2007 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
if the Indians had traded Cabrera by 7/31, Indians would not have had to have Cabrera clear waivers.  The receiving team would have to do it if they didn't want him on the 25-man.

by palcal on Aug 1, 2007 10:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Cabrera DFA
yeah, i think my thoughts started to run together on all that stuff - not sure what i was thinking there...  thanks.

i still want to know what the waiver rules are for non roster guys after the deadline...

by Brick. on Aug 1, 2007 10:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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